Should we put, Left footed on Right or Left on left? Is it same for Pheonix too? and do you still do this? : "Against stronger teams, a good trick is to start the match with Cautious mentality, then change back to Positive or Very Attacking on the second half. It works because players from stronger teams crack down at half time when not winning, or get complacent when winning even by one goal. Then you can surprise them and snatch a win while their performance goes down. Against weaker teams, it's often better to just start with Very Attacking mentality. If you are also training Light Blue and Dark Blue, the change in mentality won't affect your tactical affinity."
MA91 said: Should we put, Left footed on Right or Left on left? Is it same for Pheonix too? and do you still do this? : "Against stronger teams, a good trick is to start the match with Cautious mentality, then change back to Positive or Very Attacking on the second half. It works because players from stronger teams crack down at half time when not winning, or get complacent when winning even by one goal. Then you can surprise them and snatch a win while their performance goes down. Against weaker teams, it's often better to just start with Very Attacking mentality. If you are also training Light Blue and Dark Blue, the change in mentality won't affect your tactical affinity." Expand
Wingers with the same foot as side. For inverted wing backs it makes no much difference. Yes, I still do that.
P.S.: I tested here wingers with close down more isntead of defensive wingers and it works very well. I will test wingers without close down more to see if the difference is the close down more, then I post it for anyone that wants to use normal wingers instead, since some people don't like defensive wingers.
P.S.2: The version using wingers with close down more, which I'm calling Blue 3.1, is getting more points here, but less goal difference. I'm still running tests without close down more to see if that is what makes the difference.
ZaZ said: Wingers with the same foot as side. For inverted wing backs it makes no much difference. Yes, I still do that.
P.S.: I tested here wingers with close down more isntead of defensive wingers and it works very well. I will test wingers without close down more to see if the difference is the close down more, then I post it for anyone that wants to use normal wingers instead, since some people don't like defensive wingers.
P.S.2: The version using wingers with close down more, which I'm calling Blue 3.1, is getting more points here, but less goal difference. I'm still running tests without close down more to see if that is what makes the difference. Expand
Amazing work with your tactic! I'm curious about that Blue 4.0 now... :P
CBond90 said: Is it just the case of copying the tactic as we see it in the screenshots or am I being stupid & there's a download link I'm missing? Thanks. Expand
Click "Tactic Source", then you will see the download in the first post. The tactics folder is "Documents\Sports Interactive\Football Manager 2021\tactics".
Mornon said: Amazing work with your tactic! I'm curious about that Blue 4.0 now... :P Expand
Haha, that was an empty space for the not done yet Blue 4.0. I just used it to put results from 3.0 with some favorable conditions, like retraining positions and asking assistant manager to use specific team during holiday mode. It's not valid for anything, I did it just for fun and forgot to rename.
P.S.: For anyone in doubt of preferred foot for wingers, these are my thoughts. Same foot as side favors crossing and cutting outside to reach the byline. Opposite foot as side favors shooting and cutting inside to reach the box. Usually, you want wingers with the same foot when you have two or more strikers (including shadow strikers), since the space inside the box is already occupied. When you use only one striker, then you would prefer wingers with opposite foot and wingbacks doing the task of reaching the byline, to give width and depth. This is just theory, obviously, and the match engine might not agree with me. I'll try a tactic with inverted wingers later to see how it goes, with one striker and marauding wingbacks.
ZaZ said: Haha, that was an empty space for the not done yet Blue 4.0. I just used it to put results from 3.0 with some favorable conditions, like retraining positions and asking assistant manager to use specific team during holiday mode. It's not valid for anything, I did it just for fun and forgot to rename.
P.S.: For anyone in doubt of preferred foot for wingers, these are my thoughts. Same foot as side favors crossing and cutting outside to reach the byline. Opposite foot as side favors shooting and cutting inside to reach the box. Usually, you want wingers with the same foot when you have two or more strikers (including shadow strikers), since the space inside the box is already occupied. When you use only one striker, then you would prefer wingers with opposite foot and wingbacks doing the task of reaching the byline, to give width and depth. This is just theory, obviously, and the match engine might not agree with me. I'll try a tactic with inverted wingers later to see how it goes, with one striker and marauding wingbacks. Expand
aaaaah so disappointing, for a moment I thought you managed to break the match engine even more
About IWs-WBs combo, seems like this year they're not so effective, probably because you lose the great deal of having IWBs turning into central midfielders giving more cover. And I think also that if you change the tactic to something like WB BPD BPD WB - DLP - CM CM - IW SS IW you still risk to overload the center because of the two CM with attacking attitude and move into channels instructions. Ju my thoughts thou
Mornon said: aaaaah so disappointing, for a moment I thought you managed to break the match engine even more
About IWs-WBs combo, seems like this year they're not so effective, probably because you lose the great deal of having IWBs turning into central midfielders giving more cover. And I think also that if you change the tactic to something like WB BPD BPD WB - DLP - CM CM - IW SS IW you still risk to overload the center because of the two CM with attacking attitude and move into channels instructions. Ju my thoughts thou Expand
I plan to use two DM, possibly as RPM like Afterlife tactic.
Egraam said: I've been playing around with the tactic a bit and I've found throw-ins to be a bit of weakness - I haven't really gotten any chances created from throw-ins. I've also used Pheonix for a bit and I quite like it's throw-in setup so I've plugged it here. Also I think tight marking is still good, just not on defenders (that's why tight marking TI is not that effective in my opinion). So I've changed wingers to defensive wingers, and added tight marking on all non-defenders, effectively combining Blue 3.0 with Pheonix. Here are some results of this tweak but it still needs more testing, not sure yet if it's better than original Blue. I'll play with it in my own save now, and hopefully be able to share some more results soon.
City 107 points, Sevilla 99 points all cups.
Expand
Apparently it has been noticed that Throw-In instructions are not being followed in the new patch.
I'm doing some testing, still a work in progress... All tests have been done on fm-base database, all teams are frozen in order to reduce variability.
The subtop team got CA165, the underdog CA140. For each run first column is the subtop team, second one is the underdog. Ask if something is not clear. @ZaZ how is it going with the roaming regista?
Mornon said: I'm doing some testing, still a work in progress... All tests have been done on fm-base database, all teams are frozen in order to reduce variability.
The subtop team got CA165, the underdog CA140. For each run first column is the subtop team, second one is the underdog. Ask if something is not clear. @ZaZ how is it going with the roaming regista? Expand
Thank you for the tests! 4-2-2-2 looks nice. Have you tried it with DW instead of W?
P.S.: I was actually sidetracking to other ideas. I didn't run the double RPM yet.
P.S.2: I tested the 4222 here and it didn't give better results for my method of testing. Maybe it will be very good in fm-base or even here, but in my way of testing, Blue 3.0 is better.
ZaZ said: Thank you for the tests! 4-2-2-2 looks nice. Have you tried it with DW instead of W?
P.S.: I was actually sidetracking to other ideas. I didn't run the double RPM yet. Expand
Running the first round of testing with DWs right now, I'll let you know Funny thing my 4222 tactic which is essentially based on your playing style only scored 6.4 here
ZaZ said: Thank you for the tests! 4-2-2-2 looks nice. Have you tried it with DW instead of W?
P.S.: I was actually sidetracking to other ideas. I didn't run the double RPM yet.
P.S.2: I tested the 4222 here and it didn't give better results for my method of testing. Maybe it will be very good in fm-base or even here, but in my way of testing, Blue 3.0 is better. Expand
Oh you updated your post while I was afk Yeah, it really depends a lot on the way you test the tactics. The idea to use two Ms instead of CMs just came out while playing my career, I just found myself with 4 strong Ms in my roster and so I said: why not? :P
ZaZ said: Thank you for the tests! 4-2-2-2 looks nice. Have you tried it with DW instead of W?
P.S.: I was actually sidetracking to other ideas. I didn't run the double RPM yet.
P.S.2: I tested the 4222 here and it didn't give better results for my method of testing. Maybe it will be very good in fm-base or even here, but in my way of testing, Blue 3.0 is better. Expand
Hey,so I used this tactic with Leeds. In first season while only doing two transfers in the summer (thiago almada and mason solomon) and one in the winter (kaio jorge), I finished 2nd in the league with 90 points tied with manchester city who got 1st, losing the title due to goal difference. Won the carabao cup and got eliminated from the FA Cup by Man City in penalties. Everything seemed to be going great!
However, for the 2nd season, this tactic is performing a lot worse, with considerably better players in the squad. I brought a couple of players with the attributes to fit this tactic (patson daka for SS, jonathan ikone for MC, Dodo for DR, Pervis Estupinan for DL and Ethan Ampadu for CB).
This is how my matches have gone so far after 16 GW:
And this is my current team:
Also, I have been doing your recomendations of against stronger teams starting with cautious mentality for the 1st half, or switching to dark blue when needing goals and it seemed to work really well in the 1st season. However in this 2nd season these seem to not work at all, I seem to always concede when going for the cautious mentality strategy, and using dark blue has almost never got me goals in this second season.
Just for comparison, before trying out this tactic i was using the Cat 441v1 tactic from FM base and won everything except EL with Sporting in 1st season with only 1 loss in the league, and won everything including champions league on the 2nd season, again ending with only 1 or 2 losses.
And with Milan I won everything in the first season (league, cup and EL).
Any ideas why this tactic may have dropped off so much in the 2nd season and why it seems to perform considerably worse than cat441v1?
krozan said: Hey,so I used this tactic with Leeds. In first season while only doing two transfers in the summer (thiago almada and mason solomon) and one in the winter (kaio jorge), I finished 2nd in the league with 90 points tied with manchester city who got 1st, losing the title due to goal difference. Won the carabao cup and got eliminated from the FA Cup by Man City in penalties. Everything seemed to be going great!
However, for the 2nd season, this tactic is performing a lot worse, with considerably better players in the squad. I brought a couple of players with the attributes to fit this tactic (patson daka for SS, jonathan ikone for MC, Dodo for DR, Pervis Estupinan for DL and Ethan Ampadu for CB).
This is how my matches have gone so far after 16 GW:
And this is my current team:
Just for comparison, before trying out this tactic i was using the Cat 441v1 tactic from FM base and won everything except EL with Sporting in 1st season with only 1 loss in the league, and won everything including champions league on the 2nd season, again ending with only 1 or 2 losses.
And with Milan I won everything in the first season (league, cup and EL).
Any ideas why this tactic may have dropped off so much in the 2nd season and why it seems to perform considerably worse than cat441v1? Expand
The only what matters is your media prediction before the season and your place at the end of season.
Please, show your media prediction before the season and your place at the end season(if you haven't finished the season yet then you need to finish it).
You results look very good to me and I don't see anything wrong with it.
Markizio said: The only what matters is your media prediction before the season and your place at the end of season.
Please, show your media prediction before the season and your place at the end season(if you haven't finished the season yet then you need to finish it). Expand
Media prediction for this season has me finishing 7th, I'm currently 6th but with one more game played than the 4 teams below me who can all pass me if they win their next match. I'm also out of the champions league if I draw or lose my next game against juventus.
I'll finish the season of course but what I was looking for were possibly pointers on what I may have been doing wrong for this second season to be performing worse with better players, in order to try and fix and salvage this season if I still can.
krozan said: Media prediction for this season has me finishing 7th Expand
Having 7th media prediction with Leeds in the 2nd season is kinda crazy... could you post a screenshot of the media prediction I want to see it.
Probably, in the 1st season you overachieved at a very extreme rate(got very lucky I think) and in the 2nd season you are still overarching but at a lower rate than in the 1st season and that's a quite normal thing.
krozan said: Hey,so I used this tactic with Leeds. In first season while only doing two transfers in the summer (thiago almada and mason solomon) and one in the winter (kaio jorge), I finished 2nd in the league with 90 points tied with manchester city who got 1st, losing the title due to goal difference. Won the carabao cup and got eliminated from the FA Cup by Man City in penalties. Everything seemed to be going great!
However, for the 2nd season, this tactic is performing a lot worse, with considerably better players in the squad. I brought a couple of players with the attributes to fit this tactic (patson daka for SS, jonathan ikone for MC, Dodo for DR, Pervis Estupinan for DL and Ethan Ampadu for CB).
This is how my matches have gone so far after 16 GW:
And this is my current team:
Just for comparison, before trying out this tactic i was using the Cat 441v1 tactic from FM base and won everything except EL with Sporting in 1st season with only 1 loss in the league, and won everything including champions league on the 2nd season, again ending with only 1 or 2 losses.
And with Milan I won everything in the first season (league, cup and EL).
Any ideas why this tactic may have dropped off so much in the 2nd season and why it seems to perform considerably worse than cat441v1? Expand
Looking at the status of your player, I guess it's safe to assume you didn't do much rotation. I see half of your team needing rest when barely half of the season is gone. Also, their morale is rather poor for a team overachieving. Morale is one of the most important stats for good performances. I think those are the two areas you need to improve.
For rotation, a good tip is to either check the medical centre or add a column to the selection view to keep track of player fatigue. The more a player builds fatigue, the worse he trains and the worse he performs, even if his condition is 100%. This stat is mainly affected by number of minutes played in the previous weeks, so you need to either substitute players with high fatigue when the match is decided, or completely rest them during some easier matches. I would suggest a squad of at least 22 players, two for each position, and using all your three substitutions in every single game. Adding recovery or rest sessions to the training can also help.
For morale, it's all about praising players when they train or play well, warning when the train or play poorly, adding training sessions that increase happiness (like team bonding and match practice) and giving them more play time than expected. For playtime, I advise you lower the agreed playtime of every player to the minimum, then increase one step at a time until they are not unhappy anymore (do this during pre-season, since it will lower the morale). Rotation is needed to keep the entire squad happy, and winning matches obviously helps too.
I believe you can win easily from season one if you improve those two areas of the game.
infxamus said: It’s crazy that this is the only tactic that doesn’t use Mark Tighter on midfielders, Shadow Strikers and Wingers and still does extremely well Expand
I don't understand why either. The version 2.2 was better with mark tighter, but after the patch, it works better without.
Poacher said: Having 7th media prediction with Leeds in the 2nd season is kinda crazy... could you post a screenshot I want to see it.
Probably, in the 1st season you overachieved at a very extreme rate(got very lucky I think) and in the 2nd season you are still overarching but at a lower rate than in the 1st season and that's a quite normal thing. Expand
Ofc, here is the screenshot which has me finishing 7h this season.
That I may have overachieved in the first season may certainly be a very plausible option, but I wasn't expecting the performance to drop so much especially after bringing much better players, and also taking into account the results I got with the other tactic that I mentioned above, where with Sporting with minimal transfers I won everything in 2nd season, and in Milan on first season with 1 transfer (who was injured most of the time) won everything with Ibra breaking the goal record of Serie A.
I don't know, maybe it will get better along the season but I was wondering if there was something easibly verifiable like trainings or wrong players for the tactic, etc. that I could look to straight away.
ZaZ said: Looking at the status of your player, I guess it's safe to assume you didn't do much rotation. I see half of your team needing rest when barely half of the season is gone. Also, their morale is rather poor for a team overachieving. Morale is one of the most important stats for good performances. I think those are the two areas you need to improve.
For rotation, a good tip is to either check the medical centre or add a column to the selection view to keep track of player fatigue. The more a player builds fatigue, the worse he trains and the worse he performs, even if his condition is 100%. This stat is mainly affected by number of minutes played in the previous weeks, so you need to either substitute players with high fatigue when the match is decided, or completely rest them during some easier matches. I would suggest a squad of at least 22 players, two for each position, and using all your three substitutions in every single game. Adding recovery or rest sessions to the training can also help.
For morale, it's all about praising players when they train or play well, warning when the train or play poorly, adding training sessions that increase happiness (like team bonding and match practice) and giving them more play time than expected. For playtime, I advise you lower the agreed playtime of every player to the minimum, then increase one step at a time until they are not unhappy anymore (do this during pre-season, since it will lower the morale). Rotation is needed to keep the entire squad happy, and winning matches obviously helps too.
I believe you can win easily from season one if you improve those two areas of the game. Expand
Thanks a lot for the pointers! So, regarding rotation I have two (on some cases more) players for each position and I rotate my entire squad for cup games and easy CL group games. For league games I rotate only the players as needed (I usually don't play with players who are needing rest and try to have all 11 players with full stamina for the game), the lineup screenshot isn't my lineup for the next game I put my regular 11 there just for the screenshot.
Having all these players in need of rest is not normal, I guess its because I got a recent run of games where I couldn't really afford to rotate that much (leipzig, arsenal, liverpool, ajax, man city, all in sucession in the last week), and some injuries which forced me to use some players more than usual.
Regarding morale, I always praise/criticize after games and practices, but I don't do anything with training at all, to be honest I just used your in-season training schedule for all my training weeks (with other tactics I usually just let my ass coach handle team training), so that may be where the problem lies, but then again for season 1 there were no issues though.
I'll try to improve on the tips you gave and I'll post the end of season result here! Thanks again!
krozan said: I don't know, maybe it will get better along the season but I was wondering if there was something easibly verifiable like trainings or wrong players for the tactic, etc. that I could look to straight away. Expand
Should we put, Left footed on Right or Left on left?
Is it same for Pheonix too?
and do you still do this? :
"Against stronger teams, a good trick is to start the match with Cautious mentality, then change back to Positive or Very Attacking on the second half. It works because players from stronger teams crack down at half time when not winning, or get complacent when winning even by one goal. Then you can surprise them and snatch a win while their performance goes down. Against weaker teams, it's often better to just start with Very Attacking mentality. If you are also training Light Blue and Dark Blue, the change in mentality won't affect your tactical affinity."
MA91 said: Should we put, Left footed on Right or Left on left?
Is it same for Pheonix too?
and do you still do this? :
"Against stronger teams, a good trick is to start the match with Cautious mentality, then change back to Positive or Very Attacking on the second half. It works because players from stronger teams crack down at half time when not winning, or get complacent when winning even by one goal. Then you can surprise them and snatch a win while their performance goes down. Against weaker teams, it's often better to just start with Very Attacking mentality. If you are also training Light Blue and Dark Blue, the change in mentality won't affect your tactical affinity."
Wingers with the same foot as side. For inverted wing backs it makes no much difference. Yes, I still do that.
P.S.: I tested here wingers with close down more isntead of defensive wingers and it works very well. I will test wingers without close down more to see if the difference is the close down more, then I post it for anyone that wants to use normal wingers instead, since some people don't like defensive wingers.
P.S.2: The version using wingers with close down more, which I'm calling Blue 3.1, is getting more points here, but less goal difference. I'm still running tests without close down more to see if that is what makes the difference.
ZaZ said: Wingers with the same foot as side. For inverted wing backs it makes no much difference. Yes, I still do that.
P.S.: I tested here wingers with close down more isntead of defensive wingers and it works very well. I will test wingers without close down more to see if the difference is the close down more, then I post it for anyone that wants to use normal wingers instead, since some people don't like defensive wingers.
P.S.2: The version using wingers with close down more, which I'm calling Blue 3.1, is getting more points here, but less goal difference. I'm still running tests without close down more to see if that is what makes the difference.
Amazing work with your tactic!
I'm curious about that Blue 4.0 now... :P
Is it just the case of copying the tactic as we see it in the screenshots or am I being stupid & there's a download link I'm missing?
Thanks.
CBond90 said: Is it just the case of copying the tactic as we see it in the screenshots or am I being stupid & there's a download link I'm missing?
Thanks.
Click "Tactic Source", then you will see the download in the first post. The tactics folder is "Documents\Sports Interactive\Football Manager 2021\tactics".
Mornon said: Amazing work with your tactic!
I'm curious about that Blue 4.0 now... :P
Haha, that was an empty space for the not done yet Blue 4.0. I just used it to put results from 3.0 with some favorable conditions, like retraining positions and asking assistant manager to use specific team during holiday mode. It's not valid for anything, I did it just for fun and forgot to rename.
P.S.: For anyone in doubt of preferred foot for wingers, these are my thoughts. Same foot as side favors crossing and cutting outside to reach the byline. Opposite foot as side favors shooting and cutting inside to reach the box. Usually, you want wingers with the same foot when you have two or more strikers (including shadow strikers), since the space inside the box is already occupied. When you use only one striker, then you would prefer wingers with opposite foot and wingbacks doing the task of reaching the byline, to give width and depth. This is just theory, obviously, and the match engine might not agree with me. I'll try a tactic with inverted wingers later to see how it goes, with one striker and marauding wingbacks.
ZaZ said: Haha, that was an empty space for the not done yet Blue 4.0. I just used it to put results from 3.0 with some favorable conditions, like retraining positions and asking assistant manager to use specific team during holiday mode. It's not valid for anything, I did it just for fun and forgot to rename.
P.S.: For anyone in doubt of preferred foot for wingers, these are my thoughts. Same foot as side favors crossing and cutting outside to reach the byline. Opposite foot as side favors shooting and cutting inside to reach the box. Usually, you want wingers with the same foot when you have two or more strikers (including shadow strikers), since the space inside the box is already occupied. When you use only one striker, then you would prefer wingers with opposite foot and wingbacks doing the task of reaching the byline, to give width and depth. This is just theory, obviously, and the match engine might not agree with me. I'll try a tactic with inverted wingers later to see how it goes, with one striker and marauding wingbacks.
aaaaah so disappointing, for a moment I thought you managed to break the match engine even more
About IWs-WBs combo, seems like this year they're not so effective, probably because you lose the great deal of having IWBs turning into central midfielders giving more cover.
And I think also that if you change the tactic to something like WB BPD BPD WB - DLP - CM CM - IW SS IW you still risk to overload the center because of the two CM with attacking attitude and move into channels instructions.
Ju my thoughts thou
Mornon said: aaaaah so disappointing, for a moment I thought you managed to break the match engine even more
About IWs-WBs combo, seems like this year they're not so effective, probably because you lose the great deal of having IWBs turning into central midfielders giving more cover.
And I think also that if you change the tactic to something like WB BPD BPD WB - DLP - CM CM - IW SS IW you still risk to overload the center because of the two CM with attacking attitude and move into channels instructions.
Ju my thoughts thou
I plan to use two DM, possibly as RPM like Afterlife tactic.
If anyone wants to test the version with wingers, I created a new topic for it here.
https://fm-arena.com/thread/1062-zaz-blue-wings-3-0/
I thought it was better to create a new topic since it's a tweak of Blue 3.0, and not a direct improvement.
Egraam said: I've been playing around with the tactic a bit and I've found throw-ins to be a bit of weakness - I haven't really gotten any chances created from throw-ins. I've also used Pheonix for a bit and I quite like it's throw-in setup so I've plugged it here. Also I think tight marking is still good, just not on defenders (that's why tight marking TI is not that effective in my opinion). So I've changed wingers to defensive wingers, and added tight marking on all non-defenders, effectively combining Blue 3.0 with Pheonix. Here are some results of this tweak but it still needs more testing, not sure yet if it's better than original Blue. I'll play with it in my own save now, and hopefully be able to share some more results soon.
City 107 points, Sevilla 99 points all cups.
Apparently it has been noticed that Throw-In instructions are not being followed in the new patch.
ZaZ said: I plan to use two DM, possibly as RPM like Afterlife tactic.
It's time for new things boys !
I'm doing some testing, still a work in progress...
All tests have been done on fm-base database, all teams are frozen in order to reduce variability.
The subtop team got CA165, the underdog CA140. For each run first column is the subtop team, second one is the underdog.
Ask if something is not clear.
@ZaZ how is it going with the roaming regista?
Mornon said: I'm doing some testing, still a work in progress...
All tests have been done on fm-base database, all teams are frozen in order to reduce variability.
The subtop team got CA165, the underdog CA140. For each run first column is the subtop team, second one is the underdog.
Ask if something is not clear.
@ZaZ how is it going with the roaming regista?
Thank you for the tests! 4-2-2-2 looks nice. Have you tried it with DW instead of W?
P.S.: I was actually sidetracking to other ideas. I didn't run the double RPM yet.
P.S.2: I tested the 4222 here and it didn't give better results for my method of testing. Maybe it will be very good in fm-base or even here, but in my way of testing, Blue 3.0 is better.
... Is Mornon about to unleash a new table topper tactic?
ZaZ said: Thank you for the tests! 4-2-2-2 looks nice. Have you tried it with DW instead of W?
P.S.: I was actually sidetracking to other ideas. I didn't run the double RPM yet.
Running the first round of testing with DWs right now, I'll let you know
Funny thing my 4222 tactic which is essentially based on your playing style only scored 6.4 here
ZaZ said: Thank you for the tests! 4-2-2-2 looks nice. Have you tried it with DW instead of W?
P.S.: I was actually sidetracking to other ideas. I didn't run the double RPM yet.
P.S.2: I tested the 4222 here and it didn't give better results for my method of testing. Maybe it will be very good in fm-base or even here, but in my way of testing, Blue 3.0 is better.
Oh you updated your post while I was afk
Yeah, it really depends a lot on the way you test the tactics.
The idea to use two Ms instead of CMs just came out while playing my career, I just found myself with 4 strong Ms in my roster and so I said: why not? :P
ZaZ said: Thank you for the tests! 4-2-2-2 looks nice. Have you tried it with DW instead of W?
P.S.: I was actually sidetracking to other ideas. I didn't run the double RPM yet.
P.S.2: I tested the 4222 here and it didn't give better results for my method of testing. Maybe it will be very good in fm-base or even here, but in my way of testing, Blue 3.0 is better.
Hi!
Can you give link for 4222?
Asstem said: Hi!
Can you give link for 4222?
Sure, let me just finish this current run with inverted wingers.
Hello @ZaZ , have you ever tried one strikerless with libero?
Asstem said: Hi!
Can you give link for 4222?
Link is below.
Gpassosbh said: Hello @ZaZ , have you ever tried one strikerless with libero?
Yes, it sucks.
Hey,so I used this tactic with Leeds. In first season while only doing two transfers in the summer (thiago almada and mason solomon) and one in the winter (kaio jorge), I finished 2nd in the league with 90 points tied with manchester city who got 1st, losing the title due to goal difference. Won the carabao cup and got eliminated from the FA Cup by Man City in penalties. Everything seemed to be going great!
However, for the 2nd season, this tactic is performing a lot worse, with considerably better players in the squad. I brought a couple of players with the attributes to fit this tactic (patson daka for SS, jonathan ikone for MC, Dodo for DR, Pervis Estupinan for DL and Ethan Ampadu for CB).
This is how my matches have gone so far after 16 GW:
And this is my current team:
Also, I have been doing your recomendations of against stronger teams starting with cautious mentality for the 1st half, or switching to dark blue when needing goals and it seemed to work really well in the 1st season. However in this 2nd season these seem to not work at all, I seem to always concede when going for the cautious mentality strategy, and using dark blue has almost never got me goals in this second season.
Just for comparison, before trying out this tactic i was using the Cat 441v1 tactic from FM base and won everything except EL with Sporting in 1st season with only 1 loss in the league, and won everything including champions league on the 2nd season, again ending with only 1 or 2 losses.
And with Milan I won everything in the first season (league, cup and EL).
Any ideas why this tactic may have dropped off so much in the 2nd season and why it seems to perform considerably worse than cat441v1?
krozan said: Hey,so I used this tactic with Leeds. In first season while only doing two transfers in the summer (thiago almada and mason solomon) and one in the winter (kaio jorge), I finished 2nd in the league with 90 points tied with manchester city who got 1st, losing the title due to goal difference. Won the carabao cup and got eliminated from the FA Cup by Man City in penalties. Everything seemed to be going great!
However, for the 2nd season, this tactic is performing a lot worse, with considerably better players in the squad. I brought a couple of players with the attributes to fit this tactic (patson daka for SS, jonathan ikone for MC, Dodo for DR, Pervis Estupinan for DL and Ethan Ampadu for CB).
This is how my matches have gone so far after 16 GW:
And this is my current team:
Just for comparison, before trying out this tactic i was using the Cat 441v1 tactic from FM base and won everything except EL with Sporting in 1st season with only 1 loss in the league, and won everything including champions league on the 2nd season, again ending with only 1 or 2 losses.
And with Milan I won everything in the first season (league, cup and EL).
Any ideas why this tactic may have dropped off so much in the 2nd season and why it seems to perform considerably worse than cat441v1?
The only what matters is your media prediction before the season and your place at the end of season.
Please, show your media prediction before the season and your place at the end season(if you haven't finished the season yet then you need to finish it).
You results look very good to me and I don't see anything wrong with it.
It’s crazy that this is the only tactic that doesn’t use Mark Tighter on midfielders, Shadow Strikers and Wingers and still does extremely well
Markizio said: The only what matters is your media prediction before the season and your place at the end of season.
Please, show your media prediction before the season and your place at the end season(if you haven't finished the season yet then you need to finish it).
Media prediction for this season has me finishing 7th, I'm currently 6th but with one more game played than the 4 teams below me who can all pass me if they win their next match. I'm also out of the champions league if I draw or lose my next game against juventus.
I'll finish the season of course but what I was looking for were possibly pointers on what I may have been doing wrong for this second season to be performing worse with better players, in order to try and fix and salvage this season if I still can.
krozan said: Media prediction for this season has me finishing 7th
Having 7th media prediction with Leeds in the 2nd season is kinda crazy... could you post a screenshot of the media prediction I want to see it.
Probably, in the 1st season you overachieved at a very extreme rate(got very lucky I think) and in the 2nd season you are still overarching but at a lower rate than in the 1st season and that's a quite normal thing.
krozan said: Hey,so I used this tactic with Leeds. In first season while only doing two transfers in the summer (thiago almada and mason solomon) and one in the winter (kaio jorge), I finished 2nd in the league with 90 points tied with manchester city who got 1st, losing the title due to goal difference. Won the carabao cup and got eliminated from the FA Cup by Man City in penalties. Everything seemed to be going great!
However, for the 2nd season, this tactic is performing a lot worse, with considerably better players in the squad. I brought a couple of players with the attributes to fit this tactic (patson daka for SS, jonathan ikone for MC, Dodo for DR, Pervis Estupinan for DL and Ethan Ampadu for CB).
This is how my matches have gone so far after 16 GW:
And this is my current team:
Just for comparison, before trying out this tactic i was using the Cat 441v1 tactic from FM base and won everything except EL with Sporting in 1st season with only 1 loss in the league, and won everything including champions league on the 2nd season, again ending with only 1 or 2 losses.
And with Milan I won everything in the first season (league, cup and EL).
Any ideas why this tactic may have dropped off so much in the 2nd season and why it seems to perform considerably worse than cat441v1?
Looking at the status of your player, I guess it's safe to assume you didn't do much rotation. I see half of your team needing rest when barely half of the season is gone. Also, their morale is rather poor for a team overachieving. Morale is one of the most important stats for good performances. I think those are the two areas you need to improve.
For rotation, a good tip is to either check the medical centre or add a column to the selection view to keep track of player fatigue. The more a player builds fatigue, the worse he trains and the worse he performs, even if his condition is 100%. This stat is mainly affected by number of minutes played in the previous weeks, so you need to either substitute players with high fatigue when the match is decided, or completely rest them during some easier matches. I would suggest a squad of at least 22 players, two for each position, and using all your three substitutions in every single game. Adding recovery or rest sessions to the training can also help.
For morale, it's all about praising players when they train or play well, warning when the train or play poorly, adding training sessions that increase happiness (like team bonding and match practice) and giving them more play time than expected. For playtime, I advise you lower the agreed playtime of every player to the minimum, then increase one step at a time until they are not unhappy anymore (do this during pre-season, since it will lower the morale). Rotation is needed to keep the entire squad happy, and winning matches obviously helps too.
I believe you can win easily from season one if you improve those two areas of the game.
infxamus said: It’s crazy that this is the only tactic that doesn’t use Mark Tighter on midfielders, Shadow Strikers and Wingers and still does extremely well
I don't understand why either. The version 2.2 was better with mark tighter, but after the patch, it works better without.
Poacher said: Having 7th media prediction with Leeds in the 2nd season is kinda crazy... could you post a screenshot I want to see it.
Probably, in the 1st season you overachieved at a very extreme rate(got very lucky I think) and in the 2nd season you are still overarching but at a lower rate than in the 1st season and that's a quite normal thing.
Ofc, here is the screenshot which has me finishing 7h this season.
That I may have overachieved in the first season may certainly be a very plausible option, but I wasn't expecting the performance to drop so much especially after bringing much better players, and also taking into account the results I got with the other tactic that I mentioned above, where with Sporting with minimal transfers I won everything in 2nd season, and in Milan on first season with 1 transfer (who was injured most of the time) won everything with Ibra breaking the goal record of Serie A.
I don't know, maybe it will get better along the season but I was wondering if there was something easibly verifiable like trainings or wrong players for the tactic, etc. that I could look to straight away.
krozan said: Ofc, here is the screenshot which has me finishing 7h this season.
Thanks.
ZaZ said: Looking at the status of your player, I guess it's safe to assume you didn't do much rotation. I see half of your team needing rest when barely half of the season is gone. Also, their morale is rather poor for a team overachieving. Morale is one of the most important stats for good performances. I think those are the two areas you need to improve.
For rotation, a good tip is to either check the medical centre or add a column to the selection view to keep track of player fatigue. The more a player builds fatigue, the worse he trains and the worse he performs, even if his condition is 100%. This stat is mainly affected by number of minutes played in the previous weeks, so you need to either substitute players with high fatigue when the match is decided, or completely rest them during some easier matches. I would suggest a squad of at least 22 players, two for each position, and using all your three substitutions in every single game. Adding recovery or rest sessions to the training can also help.
For morale, it's all about praising players when they train or play well, warning when the train or play poorly, adding training sessions that increase happiness (like team bonding and match practice) and giving them more play time than expected. For playtime, I advise you lower the agreed playtime of every player to the minimum, then increase one step at a time until they are not unhappy anymore (do this during pre-season, since it will lower the morale). Rotation is needed to keep the entire squad happy, and winning matches obviously helps too.
I believe you can win easily from season one if you improve those two areas of the game.
Thanks a lot for the pointers! So, regarding rotation I have two (on some cases more) players for each position and I rotate my entire squad for cup games and easy CL group games. For league games I rotate only the players as needed (I usually don't play with players who are needing rest and try to have all 11 players with full stamina for the game), the lineup screenshot isn't my lineup for the next game I put my regular 11 there just for the screenshot.
Having all these players in need of rest is not normal, I guess its because I got a recent run of games where I couldn't really afford to rotate that much (leipzig, arsenal, liverpool, ajax, man city, all in sucession in the last week), and some injuries which forced me to use some players more than usual.
Regarding morale, I always praise/criticize after games and practices, but I don't do anything with training at all, to be honest I just used your in-season training schedule for all my training weeks (with other tactics I usually just let my ass coach handle team training), so that may be where the problem lies, but then again for season 1 there were no issues though.
I'll try to improve on the tips you gave and I'll post the end of season result here! Thanks again!
krozan said: I don't know, maybe it will get better along the season but I was wondering if there was something easibly verifiable like trainings or wrong players for the tactic, etc. that I could look to straight away.
Check whether your players have proper attributes - https://fm-arena.com/table/9-important-attributes/