Kriek said: If I'm managing a national team, what are the hard filters I should use appart the hidden ones? Also 15 Speed and Acc?
So if I'm compairing those 3 MDC/MC, I shouldn't take Kimmich?
Of should I use another value as hard limit for speed and acceleration? Expand Kimmich is superior to those other two in all aspects except pace/acc/jump, and even then he has 20 natural fitness + 17 stamina + 3 injury proneness to mostly offset this downside.
I would like to be able to make the good decision myself, how should I select the players? Is 12 speed and acceleration ok if the rest of attributes is high? I thought that speed and acceleration was the only things that matters
Kriek said: I would like to be able to make the good decision myself, how should I select the players? Is 12 speed and acceleration ok if the rest of attributes is high? I thought that speed and acceleration was the only things that matters Expand Here are the necessary attributes
For Premier League you can get away with 14 pace/acc. If the player has very high stamina, then as low as 12 is viable.
For winning the Premier League, or tough international competition, you'd need 18+ pace/acc. You also need someone with very high jumping reach on the field, and at least decent levels of jumping reach across the team in general.
I'm currently doing some testing using the following personal estimations of how 'essential' attributes are:
Jumping reach 100% essential - 17 min ST/DC, 13 min rest of team = 99, 63 weight Acceleration/Pace 85% essential - 14 min = 61 Dribbling 45% essential - 13 min = 28 Anticipation 35% essential - 13 min = 22 Concentration 35% essential - 13 min = 22 Determination 25% essential - 14 min = 18 Work Rate 15% essential - 11 min = 7 Agility 15% essential - 10 min = 5 Balance 20% essential - 12 min = 11 Stamina 25% essential - 13 min = 16 Strength 2% essential - 8 min = 1 Finishing 2% essential - 7 min = 1 (ST only) Vision 2% essential - 7 min = 1
How 'essential' they are is just based on my intuitive feel for the data. So for instance, jumping reach is 100% essential because going below the requirement quickly gets you relegated. Acc/Pace I know can go down to ~12 in certain circumstances (i.e. Harry Kane), so a little leeway there. Work Rate, we know is ok down to 6, and the requirement of 11 isn't high to begin with, so you don't even really need to put it in your weights much (as most players will be 8+ anyway).
( edited 1 day, 1 hour ago by GeorgeFloydOverdosed )
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Using the weights in the above post, I've done testing of my Genie Scout weights vs. Orion's weights.
I think it's the first time a results-based comparison of the Genie Scout rating files has been attempted.
Method:
- Luton in Premier League - Remove all players - Filter in Genie Scout for CA-PA gap of 0-3 and current reputation 0-6000 and green proficiency in relevant position - Take top 3-4 in each position - Move them to Luton - Change age, personality, natural fitness, consistency, important matches, nationality, height, weight, etc. so that there is control where there needs to be - Position proficiency is deliberately *not* controlled (this has pros and cons) - One season with Knap tactic and Blue routines (Premier League, FA Cup & Carabao Cup @ full detail)
Extra info:
Player overlap - 13 of 27 players Peak acc/pace/jump/drib (Orion) - 18/18/19/15 Peak acc/pace/jump/drib (My weights) - 18/18/19/13 Median acc/pace/jump/drib (Orion) - 14/14/13/12 Median acc/pace/jump/drib (My weights) - 14/14/14/11
The results:
My weights - 10th, 9th, 4th, 9th, 9th, 9th = 8.333th average Orion's weights - 18th, 12th, 16th, 10th, 10th, 13th = 13.166th average
Now I would caution against reading into these results too much at the moment, but I think it's safe to say at least that Orion's weights do not do significantly better than mine. To my mind, it's further suggestive evidence that all positions share the same necessary attributes; there are not position-specific attributes.
The main reason for caution is that it could simply be that my weights ended up having a higher jumping reach player on the field. The Orion team did start their 19 jump DC most games though, and if my weights are selecting more frequently for high jumping reach players who win then that's a feature not a bug. When I do this test with my Premier League 1.0 weights and one or two others, that will shed more light on this more conclusively.
GeorgeFloydOverdosed said: Using the weights in the above post, I've done testing of my Genie Scout weights vs. Orion's weights.
I think it's the first time a results-based comparison of the Genie Scout rating files has been attempted.
Method:
- Luton in Premier League - Remove all players - Filter in Genie Scout for CA-PA gap of 0-3 and current reputation 0-6000 and green proficiency in relevant position - Take top 3-4 in each position - Move them to Luton - Change age, personality, natural fitness, consistency, important matches, nationality, height, weight, etc. so that there is control where there needs to be - Position proficiency is deliberately *not* controlled (this has pros and cons) - One season with Knap tactic and Blue routines (Premier League, FA Cup & Carabao Cup @ full detail)
Extra info:
Player overlap - 13 of 27 players Peak acc/pace/jump/drib (Orion) - 18/18/19/15 Peak acc/pace/jump/drib (My weights) - 18/18/19/13 Median acc/pace/jump/drib (Orion) - 14/14/13/12 Median acc/pace/jump/drib (My weights) - 14/14/14/11
The results:
My weights - 10th, 9th, 4th, 9th, 9th, 9th = 8.333th average Orion's weights - 18th, 12th, 16th, 10th, 10th, 13th = 13.166th average
Now I would caution against reading into these results too much at the moment, but I think it's safe to say at least that Orion's weights do not do significantly better than mine. To my mind, it's further suggestive evidence that all positions share the same necessary attributes; there are not position-specific attributes.
The main reason for caution is that it could simply be that my weights ended up having a higher jumping reach player on the field. The Orion team did start their 19 jump DC most games though, and if my weights are selecting more frequently for high jumping reach players who win then that's a feature not a bug. When I do this test with my Premier League 1.0 weights and one or two others, that will shed more light on this more conclusively. Expand
Can you do this against your max performance rating as I found that to be the best, I just removed injury proneness as I don’t require imo
I did 10 season test on fc Metz and that one out preformed the newest file set but might be some rng possibly please test.
You were absolutely right, it was discovered in the new thread that Genie Scout indeed has bugs. For example, the higher the height, the higher the rating.
OpticFawn said: Can you do this against your max performance rating as I found that to be the best, I just removed injury proneness as I don’t require imo
I did 10 season test on fc Metz and that one out preformed the newest file set but might be some rng possibly please test. Expand FM24 Pure Performance results:
5th*, 6th*, 8th*, 6th, 4th, 10th = 6.5 average
Asterisked results are where I forgot to set injury proneness to 1 as control
Premier League 1.0 results:
6th, 9th, 7th = 7.33 average
I also tried a few alternative tactics with one of these squads, to see if something does better than the Knap EF 424 IF HP V2 P101 AC tactic I use. The first few did worse, but 424 Classic v164 got 3rd, 3rd, 9th, 5th. Maybe it's just circumstantial, but I'll be taking a closer look at it.
Exellent said: You were absolutely right, it was discovered in the new thread that Genie Scout indeed has bugs. For example, the higher the height, the higher the rating. Expand The thing is, that program isn't actually Genie Scout as far as I can tell..
The bug he encountered is valid though, but also it may be that he hasn't taken into account footedness and position proficiency which is the more likely cause if not ruled out.
I can't take credit for finding Genie Scout is bugged, LightningFlik clued me onto this.
I decided to give this a shout in a new save on FM26. I picked Leicester City because I like to play Strikerless and even at 16 this gives Jeremy Monga a good overall rating. He is my SS and in the league before injury played 5 and scored 5. I was sceptical with the ratings file, sold players with high wages and brought in low value players. Signed a goalkeeper for £375 from bodo/glimt.
I normally player my moneyball ratings file. Involves taking data picking top performers find common high value attributes and then weighting them. But honestly having way more success with this
If I'm managing a national team, what are the hard filters I should use appart the hidden ones?
Also 15 Speed and Acc?
So if I'm compairing those 3 MDC/MC, I shouldn't take Kimmich?
Of should I use another value as hard limit for speed and acceleration?
Kriek said: If I'm managing a national team, what are the hard filters I should use appart the hidden ones?
Also 15 Speed and Acc?
So if I'm compairing those 3 MDC/MC, I shouldn't take Kimmich?
Of should I use another value as hard limit for speed and acceleration?
Nmecha every day
Kriek said: If I'm managing a national team, what are the hard filters I should use appart the hidden ones?
Also 15 Speed and Acc?
So if I'm compairing those 3 MDC/MC, I shouldn't take Kimmich?
Of should I use another value as hard limit for speed and acceleration?
Kimmich is superior to those other two in all aspects except pace/acc/jump, and even then he has 20 natural fitness + 17 stamina + 3 injury proneness to mostly offset this downside.
I would like to be able to make the good decision myself, how should I select the players?
Is 12 speed and acceleration ok if the rest of attributes is high? I thought that speed and acceleration was the only things that matters
Kriek said: I would like to be able to make the good decision myself, how should I select the players?
Is 12 speed and acceleration ok if the rest of attributes is high? I thought that speed and acceleration was the only things that matters
Here are the necessary attributes
For Premier League you can get away with 14 pace/acc. If the player has very high stamina, then as low as 12 is viable.
For winning the Premier League, or tough international competition, you'd need 18+ pace/acc. You also need someone with very high jumping reach on the field, and at least decent levels of jumping reach across the team in general.
I'm currently doing some testing using the following personal estimations of how 'essential' attributes are:
Jumping reach 100% essential - 17 min ST/DC, 13 min rest of team = 99, 63 weight
Acceleration/Pace 85% essential - 14 min = 61
Dribbling 45% essential - 13 min = 28
Anticipation 35% essential - 13 min = 22
Concentration 35% essential - 13 min = 22
Determination 25% essential - 14 min = 18
Work Rate 15% essential - 11 min = 7
Agility 15% essential - 10 min = 5
Balance 20% essential - 12 min = 11
Stamina 25% essential - 13 min = 16
Strength 2% essential - 8 min = 1
Finishing 2% essential - 7 min = 1 (ST only)
Vision 2% essential - 7 min = 1
How 'essential' they are is just based on my intuitive feel for the data. So for instance, jumping reach is 100% essential because going below the requirement quickly gets you relegated. Acc/Pace I know can go down to ~12 in certain circumstances (i.e. Harry Kane), so a little leeway there. Work Rate, we know is ok down to 6, and the requirement of 11 isn't high to begin with, so you don't even really need to put it in your weights much (as most players will be 8+ anyway).
Using the weights in the above post, I've done testing of my Genie Scout weights vs. Orion's weights.
I think it's the first time a results-based comparison of the Genie Scout rating files has been attempted.
Method:
- Luton in Premier League
- Remove all players
- Filter in Genie Scout for CA-PA gap of 0-3 and current reputation 0-6000 and green proficiency in relevant position
- Take top 3-4 in each position
- Move them to Luton
- Change age, personality, natural fitness, consistency, important matches, nationality, height, weight, etc. so that there is control where there needs to be
- Position proficiency is deliberately *not* controlled (this has pros and cons)
- One season with Knap tactic and Blue routines (Premier League, FA Cup & Carabao Cup @ full detail)
Extra info:
Player overlap - 13 of 27 players
Peak acc/pace/jump/drib (Orion) - 18/18/19/15
Peak acc/pace/jump/drib (My weights) - 18/18/19/13
Median acc/pace/jump/drib (Orion) - 14/14/13/12
Median acc/pace/jump/drib (My weights) - 14/14/14/11
The results:
My weights - 10th, 9th, 4th, 9th, 9th, 9th = 8.333th average
Orion's weights - 18th, 12th, 16th, 10th, 10th, 13th = 13.166th average
Now I would caution against reading into these results too much at the moment, but I think it's safe to say at least that Orion's weights do not do significantly better than mine. To my mind, it's further suggestive evidence that all positions share the same necessary attributes; there are not position-specific attributes.
The main reason for caution is that it could simply be that my weights ended up having a higher jumping reach player on the field. The Orion team did start their 19 jump DC most games though, and if my weights are selecting more frequently for high jumping reach players who win then that's a feature not a bug. When I do this test with my Premier League 1.0 weights and one or two others, that will shed more light on this more conclusively.
GeorgeFloydOverdosed said: Using the weights in the above post, I've done testing of my Genie Scout weights vs. Orion's weights.
I think it's the first time a results-based comparison of the Genie Scout rating files has been attempted.
Method:
- Luton in Premier League
- Remove all players
- Filter in Genie Scout for CA-PA gap of 0-3 and current reputation 0-6000 and green proficiency in relevant position
- Take top 3-4 in each position
- Move them to Luton
- Change age, personality, natural fitness, consistency, important matches, nationality, height, weight, etc. so that there is control where there needs to be
- Position proficiency is deliberately *not* controlled (this has pros and cons)
- One season with Knap tactic and Blue routines (Premier League, FA Cup & Carabao Cup @ full detail)
Extra info:
Player overlap - 13 of 27 players
Peak acc/pace/jump/drib (Orion) - 18/18/19/15
Peak acc/pace/jump/drib (My weights) - 18/18/19/13
Median acc/pace/jump/drib (Orion) - 14/14/13/12
Median acc/pace/jump/drib (My weights) - 14/14/14/11
The results:
My weights - 10th, 9th, 4th, 9th, 9th, 9th = 8.333th average
Orion's weights - 18th, 12th, 16th, 10th, 10th, 13th = 13.166th average
Now I would caution against reading into these results too much at the moment, but I think it's safe to say at least that Orion's weights do not do significantly better than mine. To my mind, it's further suggestive evidence that all positions share the same necessary attributes; there are not position-specific attributes.
The main reason for caution is that it could simply be that my weights ended up having a higher jumping reach player on the field. The Orion team did start their 19 jump DC most games though, and if my weights are selecting more frequently for high jumping reach players who win then that's a feature not a bug. When I do this test with my Premier League 1.0 weights and one or two others, that will shed more light on this more conclusively.
Can you do this against your max performance rating as I found that to be the best, I just removed injury proneness as I don’t require imo
I did 10 season test on fc Metz and that one out preformed the newest file set but might be some rng possibly please test.
You were absolutely right, it was discovered in the new thread that Genie Scout indeed has bugs. For example, the higher the height, the higher the rating.
OpticFawn said: Can you do this against your max performance rating as I found that to be the best, I just removed injury proneness as I don’t require imo
I did 10 season test on fc Metz and that one out preformed the newest file set but might be some rng possibly please test.
FM24 Pure Performance results:
5th*, 6th*, 8th*, 6th, 4th, 10th = 6.5 average
Asterisked results are where I forgot to set injury proneness to 1 as control
Premier League 1.0 results:
6th, 9th, 7th = 7.33 average
I also tried a few alternative tactics with one of these squads, to see if something does better than the Knap EF 424 IF HP V2 P101 AC tactic I use. The first few did worse, but 424 Classic v164 got 3rd, 3rd, 9th, 5th. Maybe it's just circumstantial, but I'll be taking a closer look at it.
Exellent said: You were absolutely right, it was discovered in the new thread that Genie Scout indeed has bugs. For example, the higher the height, the higher the rating.
The thing is, that program isn't actually Genie Scout as far as I can tell..
The bug he encountered is valid though, but also it may be that he hasn't taken into account footedness and position proficiency which is the more likely cause if not ruled out.
I can't take credit for finding Genie Scout is bugged, LightningFlik clued me onto this.
Falbravv said: Use this, simple and efficient
https://www.mediafire.com/file/vsv3fgyulro0htq/META_FMA.grf/file
I decided to give this a shout in a new save on FM26. I picked Leicester City because I like to play Strikerless and even at 16 this gives Jeremy Monga a good overall rating. He is my SS and in the league before injury played 5 and scored 5. I was sceptical with the ratings file, sold players with high wages and brought in low value players. Signed a goalkeeper for £375 from bodo/glimt.
I normally player my moneyball ratings file. Involves taking data picking top performers find common high value attributes and then weighting them. But honestly having way more success with this
The signings