Hello everyone, I have recently been thinking about something that I can't really wrap my head around, what are the patterns of a successful fm arena tactic? I have had many good tactic results on my own using weak teams like bournemouth , luton etc (in holiday mode), but once they get put on fm arena, only some of them get a good score. As far as I understand all teams are equally good in the testing database, meaning logically, if you make a tactic work with a "worse" team on your own using holiday, it should equate to almost a guaranteed good score, but that is rarely the case. I have tried plenty of top tactics from this site with a lower league pl team (once again in holiday mode), and sometimes ended towards the bottom, and sometimes you challenge for the league , no pattern at all. Is there even an optimal team to test with if you want to achieve high score on this site? I hope you understand what I mean!
First of all, you don't need to create a new thread for your questions every time and also when they are of the same nature.
I've already answered you in your previous thread (see here) and I will answer you once again here. I'll send you some links to go in and read the reasoning behind the testing environment and what really happens in the game and if you have questions we can continue the discussion here.
Also in my opinion the 'best' team to choose to test your tactics through a normal season lets say in Premier League is a team with an average CA or/and an average reputation compared to other teams in the league, which in this case is Brighton. This approach doesn't guarantee that if you win the Premier League or relegate into Sky Bet Championship then your score here will be very high or very low accordingly. Of course more points are better but this happens because of RNG. (link above)
Thank you for the answer @dzek ! I just wanted to clarify what I mean exactly. I understand there is RNG involved both here on FM arena as well as any testing you might do on your own through holidaying. However, there are alot of tactics that quite simply would never achieve a high score regardless of how many times you run it. I have had tactics that got 80+ points with bournemouth on holiday mode, that barely cracked 50 points and a positive GD on here, I don't think it matters if it would be tested another 6,000 games. Similarly, I have tested high scoring tactics from this website who struggle to even keep teams like Luton,Bournemouth etc. in the prem. I understand that me testing for 1 season on my own in holiday mode does not give an accurate picture of a tactic, however there are still general guidelines on how good the tactic is. If I finish 16th with bournemouth using a certain tactic, I can almost be 100% sure that it is not a good one. Likewise if i get 80+ points with a team predicted to get relegated, its probably a good one. Its some good information though and I understand it a bit better so thank you!
DreadPirateRoberts said: Thank you for the answer @dzek ! I just wanted to clarify what I mean exactly. I understand there is RNG involved both here on FM arena as well as any testing you might do on your own through holidaying. However, there are alot of tactics that quite simply would never achieve a high score regardless of how many times you run it. I have had tactics that got 80+ points with bournemouth on holiday mode, that barely cracked 50 points and a positive GD on here, I don't think it matters if it would be tested another 6,000 games. Similarly, I have tested high scoring tactics from this website who struggle to even keep teams like Luton,Bournemouth etc. in the prem. I understand that me testing for 1 season on my own in holiday mode does not give an accurate picture of a tactic, however there are still general guidelines on how good the tactic is. If I finish 16th with bournemouth using a certain tactic, I can almost be 100% sure that it is not a good one. Likewise if i get 80+ points with a team predicted to get relegated, its probably a good one. Its some good information though and I understand it a bit better so thank you! Expand I understand your question but apart from the factors above, you forgot the most important one (regarding testing in normal seasons). The ability of the players. Read here - https://fm-arena.com/thread/5345-attributes-vs-tactics/
Also no result is guaranteed, neither here at FM-Arena nor in any of your own tests that the result will always be the same and reliable. Here we try to find the best possible ways to beat ME, but you can make tweaks within the matches depending on the dynamics of your players and the weakness of your opponent.
In short take a tactic from here as a base and in some matches if you see that you are struggling make the necessary actions that you think will bring your opponent to his knees. The best solution is to buy better players.
Also no result is guaranteed, neither here at FM-Arena nor in any of your own tests that the result will always be the same and reliable. Here we try to find the best possible ways to beat ME, but you can make tweaks within the matches depending on the dynamics of your players and the weakness of your opponent.
In short take a tactic from here as a base and in some matches if you see that you are struggling make the necessary actions that you think will bring your opponent to his knees. The best solution is to buy better players. Expand
I want to further emphasize on this point. Good players can make any tactic work and in FM-Arena they use good players. The reasoning here as stated in FM-Arena is "Tactics regardless their formations/roles/duties are being tested with equally good players which ensures that the results aren't affected by the difference in the players' quality."
I want to provide a quick example to show this in action. I always play FM as DOF and I don't mess with tactics as that makes it easy for me. So I went and hired a very good assistant coach and I will tell you the reason behind that in a min (you can see his attributes and tendency in the attached screenshot).
I watched the formation he plays in Friendlies and replicated it in the tactic screen that depicts his tendency and the roles he plays the 4-2-3-1 formation. You can see that there is very minimal TI's and no PI's (I am sure the assistant manager will add some, but I don't know what he does). Watch Clayts video in YouTube if you have any questions around the process
So If you ask me, this formation will score around 45-50 with meta TI's and PI's and that would be a drop of 25% to 30% from the top tactic with a score of 65. But in-game that delta in my honest opinion and observation is around 10% are less. So my reasoning here is that,
1. Not all teams in your league are better than or equal to your team. So against those teams you can win despite having a tactical disadvantage but in FM-Arena you are playing against equal teams.
2. So you would then think the top team will beat you but that might not always be the case because they are playing 2 matches per week when compared to 1 match per week your team plays and hence they might not play their best players against your team or even if they do they have high fatigue which might make your team win against them. Again, not an issue in FM-Arena.
I can go on but the point is, FM-Arena testing league is tuned towards know how good a tactic is and I feel like any tactic above 45 should work better in-game if you have players with similar kind of attributes as they use in FM-Arena. So why do I think that, in the attachment, you can see that the tactic my assistant manager created lead Nottm to finish 6th in EPL and won a cup and this is the reason why I got a very good assistant coach to prove that its as good as we designing a tactics from ground up.
Just to prove that I didn't make these numbers up, you can see that I holiday'd for 97% of the save and the initial few days I had to play in order to identify the formation and roles my assistant manager uses.
I know it's a big article but the bottom line is, good players make any tactic work and as long as the tactic you create covers the pitch well, they would do good in-game. The game is designed to be easier than the FM-Arena test league in order to make players not lose faith in the game and continue playing the game.
Hello everyone, I have recently been thinking about something that I can't really wrap my head around, what are the patterns of a successful fm arena tactic? I have had many good tactic results on my own using weak teams like bournemouth , luton etc (in holiday mode), but once they get put on fm arena, only some of them get a good score. As far as I understand all teams are equally good in the testing database, meaning logically, if you make a tactic work with a "worse" team on your own using holiday, it should equate to almost a guaranteed good score, but that is rarely the case. I have tried plenty of top tactics from this site with a lower league pl team (once again in holiday mode), and sometimes ended towards the bottom, and sometimes you challenge for the league , no pattern at all. Is there even an optimal team to test with if you want to achieve high score on this site? I hope you understand what I mean!
DreadPirateRoberts said: Hello everyone, I have recently been thinking about something that I can't really wrap my head around
https://fm-arena.com/thread/2713-10-944-matches-tested-fm-rng-measured/
https://fm-arena.com/thread/442-my-attempt-to-measure-the-game-rng-random-number-generator/
https://fm-arena.com/thread/3269-playing-on-vacation-holiday/
Hi @DreadPirateRoberts,
First of all, you don't need to create a new thread for your questions every time and also when they are of the same nature.
I've already answered you in your previous thread (see here) and I will answer you once again here. I'll send you some links to go in and read the reasoning behind the testing environment and what really happens in the game and if you have questions we can continue the discussion here.
FM-Arena Tactic Testing League conditions - https://fm-arena.com/thread/2712-fm23-fm-arena-tactic-testing-league/
FM RNG (Random Number Generation) - https://fm-arena.com/thread/2713-10-944-matches-tested-fm-rng-measured/
Also in my opinion the 'best' team to choose to test your tactics through a normal season lets say in Premier League is a team with an average CA or/and an average reputation compared to other teams in the league, which in this case is Brighton. This approach doesn't guarantee that if you win the Premier League or relegate into Sky Bet Championship then your score here will be very high or very low accordingly. Of course more points are better but this happens because of RNG. (link above)
For anything else I'm here for you!
Thank you
Thank you for the answer @dzek ! I just wanted to clarify what I mean exactly. I understand there is RNG involved both here on FM arena as well as any testing you might do on your own through holidaying. However, there are alot of tactics that quite simply would never achieve a high score regardless of how many times you run it. I have had tactics that got 80+ points with bournemouth on holiday mode, that barely cracked 50 points and a positive GD on here, I don't think it matters if it would be tested another 6,000 games. Similarly, I have tested high scoring tactics from this website who struggle to even keep teams like Luton,Bournemouth etc. in the prem. I understand that me testing for 1 season on my own in holiday mode does not give an accurate picture of a tactic, however there are still general guidelines on how good the tactic is. If I finish 16th with bournemouth using a certain tactic, I can almost be 100% sure that it is not a good one. Likewise if i get 80+ points with a team predicted to get relegated, its probably a good one. Its some good information though and I understand it a bit better so thank you!
DreadPirateRoberts said: Thank you for the answer @dzek ! I just wanted to clarify what I mean exactly. I understand there is RNG involved both here on FM arena as well as any testing you might do on your own through holidaying. However, there are alot of tactics that quite simply would never achieve a high score regardless of how many times you run it. I have had tactics that got 80+ points with bournemouth on holiday mode, that barely cracked 50 points and a positive GD on here, I don't think it matters if it would be tested another 6,000 games. Similarly, I have tested high scoring tactics from this website who struggle to even keep teams like Luton,Bournemouth etc. in the prem. I understand that me testing for 1 season on my own in holiday mode does not give an accurate picture of a tactic, however there are still general guidelines on how good the tactic is. If I finish 16th with bournemouth using a certain tactic, I can almost be 100% sure that it is not a good one. Likewise if i get 80+ points with a team predicted to get relegated, its probably a good one. Its some good information though and I understand it a bit better so thank you!
I understand your question but apart from the factors above, you forgot the most important one (regarding testing in normal seasons). The ability of the players.
Read here - https://fm-arena.com/thread/5345-attributes-vs-tactics/
Also no result is guaranteed, neither here at FM-Arena nor in any of your own tests that the result will always be the same and reliable. Here we try to find the best possible ways to beat ME, but you can make tweaks within the matches depending on the dynamics of your players and the weakness of your opponent.
In short take a tactic from here as a base and in some matches if you see that you are struggling make the necessary actions that you think will bring your opponent to his knees. The best solution is to buy better players.
dzek said: I understand your question but apart from the factors above, you forgot the most important one (regarding testing in normal seasons). The ability of the players.
Read here - https://fm-arena.com/thread/5345-attributes-vs-tactics/
Also no result is guaranteed, neither here at FM-Arena nor in any of your own tests that the result will always be the same and reliable. Here we try to find the best possible ways to beat ME, but you can make tweaks within the matches depending on the dynamics of your players and the weakness of your opponent.
In short take a tactic from here as a base and in some matches if you see that you are struggling make the necessary actions that you think will bring your opponent to his knees. The best solution is to buy better players.
I want to further emphasize on this point. Good players can make any tactic work and in FM-Arena they use good players. The reasoning here as stated in FM-Arena is "Tactics regardless their formations/roles/duties are being tested with equally good players which ensures that the results aren't affected by the difference in the players' quality."
I want to provide a quick example to show this in action. I always play FM as DOF and I don't mess with tactics as that makes it easy for me. So I went and hired a very good assistant coach and I will tell you the reason behind that in a min (you can see his attributes and tendency in the attached screenshot).
I watched the formation he plays in Friendlies and replicated it in the tactic screen that depicts his tendency and the roles he plays the 4-2-3-1 formation. You can see that there is very minimal TI's and no PI's (I am sure the assistant manager will add some, but I don't know what he does). Watch Clayts video in YouTube if you have any questions around the process
So If you ask me, this formation will score around 45-50 with meta TI's and PI's and that would be a drop of 25% to 30% from the top tactic with a score of 65. But in-game that delta in my honest opinion and observation is around 10% are less. So my reasoning here is that,
1. Not all teams in your league are better than or equal to your team. So against those teams you can win despite having a tactical disadvantage but in FM-Arena you are playing against equal teams.
2. So you would then think the top team will beat you but that might not always be the case because they are playing 2 matches per week when compared to 1 match per week your team plays and hence they might not play their best players against your team or even if they do they have high fatigue which might make your team win against them. Again, not an issue in FM-Arena.
I can go on but the point is, FM-Arena testing league is tuned towards know how good a tactic is and I feel like any tactic above 45 should work better in-game if you have players with similar kind of attributes as they use in FM-Arena. So why do I think that, in the attachment, you can see that the tactic my assistant manager created lead Nottm to finish 6th in EPL and won a cup and this is the reason why I got a very good assistant coach to prove that its as good as we designing a tactics from ground up.
Just to prove that I didn't make these numbers up, you can see that I holiday'd for 97% of the save and the initial few days I had to play in order to identify the formation and roles my assistant manager uses.
I know it's a big article but the bottom line is, good players make any tactic work and as long as the tactic you create covers the pitch well, they would do good in-game. The game is designed to be easier than the FM-Arena test league in order to make players not lose faith in the game and continue playing the game.