Squirrel_Player's python code's valuation for important attribute, and attributes per position is flawed. While I'm sure it's good for a quick look at potential transfer targets, FM scout's calculation method (and people's own ratings such as MDW22 and ykykyky) offer a much better solution in every regard.
Similar to the in-game information given for each position, attributes are split up in Key and Preferable - and non-necessary attributes. These are then given a weight, not sure about the exact number, but let's say 5x for Key and 3x for Preferable, which makes those attributes more important in the overall calculation.
However this approach is entirely flawed, as it completely disregards important attributes (regardless of position/role/duty) entirely. So specialized players, with high dribbling, pace, acceleration will score high as a Winger in the program, but in reality because of low other attributes which are no included in the calculation for Winger position (for instance Work Rate) will perform badly in-game.
This is also the same calculation method squirrel_plays uses in his python code by the way. The program also takes into account player's position I believe, and attributes a negative weight if a player is not a Natural in the position you want to play him as. However this isn't entirely confirmed.
It's also good to know that FM Plus and FMLineUpTool are essentially the same program, except FM Plus incorporates more fuctionality taken from the FM Scout program, like automatically loading in players instead of saving players to .csv or .html file and loading them into the program seperately. I believe the creator, Davy Depuydt, struck a deal with FM Scout to split revenue in return for these parts of the fuctionality. As for a lot of people FM LineUp Tool and now FM Plus is preferred to FM Scout because of it's simplicity.
All-in-all, the calculating methods behind FM Plus are flawed. I would always prefer to work with FM Scout over FM Plus or FM LineUp Tool. However, if you're looking for just quick plug-and-play style scouting and transfer suggestions rather than a deep dive into attributes, FM Plus is a good alternative to FM Scout.
From my personal experience FM LineUp Tool was actually a better program than FM Plus, especially for older versions of the game. However it seems they've already removed the download for this program and replaced it with FM Plus'. If anyone has the program still stored on their machine, please share here!
As I've already said on a different post, I am sceptical of ykykyky's ratings for each role. However I concur that we should try to put more effort into finding the most relevant attributes for each role, as you've done here.
I'm confident the team at SI rarely changes existing simulation algorithms and just tries to add more 'situations' every year. However this opinion is based on nothing, other than the relevant attributes from the attribute testing table don't seem to shift that much every year.
I do have to say I am a bit confused by your last graph with the final results, in particular with the Goals Allowed difference/Goals Scored difference. What testing did you do to get these differences?
Is it possible to reduce the attacking and defensive template into weights, for each attribute with these findings?
I've always been a bit sceptical about ykykyky's ratings because their findings were only based on that single ZaZ tactic. The attribute testing, being done by this website, is obviously also based on a single tactic though.
We've also seen on other tests that attributes, and subsequently good players, do have a bigger impact on a match compared to any tactic though. So in theory these findings should be somewhat universal, regardless of tactic.
There are also some attributes that I believe have low-to-zero impact on the result of any game, as they're only used to determine player's pro- or regression throughout their careers such as Determination and Natural Fitness.
In my personal experience, I've used both ykykyky and Mark's ratings file for Genie Scout. I tend to lean towards Mark's ratings because they seem to consistently identify high-performing players for my team. It's all about finding what works best for your style of play, but it's great to have multiple resources like these at our disposal.
Kudos to you, AlexH for taking the initiative on this project! It's evident that you've put hard work into this and I'm sure many in the community will be thrilled with this valuable addition, and your efforts are truly appreciated.
That being said; Squirrel_Plays and Davy_Depuyt, the brain behind the FM LineUp Tool and now the FMPlus series, have the same working method that I find problematic.
They both operate under the assumption that the information provided by Sports Interactive (SI) within the game is entirely accurate. Per position attributes are divided into three categories: Required, Preferred, and Irrelevant. Required attributes carry the most weight, preferred attributes a bit less, and irrelevant attributes are ignored in their calculations.
However, if you've been keeping up with this forum and its tests and results, you might be aware that SI's information is often misleading. You can read more about it here:link.
The issue here is that attributes like "Finishing," which has been repeatedly shown to be of much less importance for most players, even strikers, are suddenly given significant weight in their calculations for various positions. This obviously skews the final results.
As it stands, I believe that FM Genie Scout still provides the most accurate results because it allows you to customize the weight of each attribute for different positions in the settings. By effectively adjusting these weights, you can prioritize attributes like Pace and Acceleration, which in reality have a more significant impact on a player's performance.
Originally inspired by the FM LineUp Tool, and subsequently Squirrel_Plays' Youtube videos I am working on very simple tool, just for private use, as it's far from a finished product to release.
The issue with these type of programs is that they're only able to take into account current attributes, and don't pay attention to possible future development of players. So FM Genie Scout is still King for me.
However this approach is entirely flawed, as it completely disregards important attributes (regardless of position/role/duty) entirely. So specialized players, with high dribbling, pace, acceleration will score high as a Winger in the program, but in reality because of low other attributes which are no included in the calculation for Winger position (for instance Work Rate) will perform badly in-game.
This is also the same calculation method squirrel_plays uses in his python code by the way.
The program also takes into account player's position I believe, and attributes a negative weight if a player is not a Natural in the position you want to play him as. However this isn't entirely confirmed.
It's also good to know that FM Plus and FMLineUpTool are essentially the same program, except FM Plus incorporates more fuctionality taken from the FM Scout program, like automatically loading in players instead of saving players to .csv or .html file and loading them into the program seperately.
I believe the creator, Davy Depuydt, struck a deal with FM Scout to split revenue in return for these parts of the fuctionality. As for a lot of people FM LineUp Tool and now FM Plus is preferred to FM Scout because of it's simplicity.
All-in-all, the calculating methods behind FM Plus are flawed.
I would always prefer to work with FM Scout over FM Plus or FM LineUp Tool.
However, if you're looking for just quick plug-and-play style scouting and transfer suggestions rather than a deep dive into attributes, FM Plus is a good alternative to FM Scout.
From my personal experience FM LineUp Tool was actually a better program than FM Plus, especially for older versions of the game. However it seems they've already removed the download for this program and replaced it with FM Plus'.
If anyone has the program still stored on their machine, please share here!
As I've already said on a different post, I am sceptical of ykykyky's ratings for each role. However I concur that we should try to put more effort into finding the most relevant attributes for each role, as you've done here.
I'm confident the team at SI rarely changes existing simulation algorithms and just tries to add more 'situations' every year. However this opinion is based on nothing, other than the relevant attributes from the attribute testing table don't seem to shift that much every year.
I do have to say I am a bit confused by your last graph with the final results, in particular with the Goals Allowed difference/Goals Scored difference. What testing did you do to get these differences?
Is it possible to reduce the attacking and defensive template into weights, for each attribute with these findings?
The attribute testing, being done by this website, is obviously also based on a single tactic though.
We've also seen on other tests that attributes, and subsequently good players, do have a bigger impact on a match compared to any tactic though. So in theory these findings should be somewhat universal, regardless of tactic.
There are also some attributes that I believe have low-to-zero impact on the result of any game, as they're only used to determine player's pro- or regression throughout their careers such as Determination and Natural Fitness.
In my personal experience, I've used both ykykyky and Mark's ratings file for Genie Scout. I tend to lean towards Mark's ratings because they seem to consistently identify high-performing players for my team. It's all about finding what works best for your style of play, but it's great to have multiple resources like these at our disposal.
Pace and Acceleration are still the most important attributes.
That being said; Squirrel_Plays and Davy_Depuyt, the brain behind the FM LineUp Tool and now the FMPlus series, have the same working method that I find problematic.
They both operate under the assumption that the information provided by Sports Interactive (SI) within the game is entirely accurate. Per position attributes are divided into three categories: Required, Preferred, and Irrelevant. Required attributes carry the most weight, preferred attributes a bit less, and irrelevant attributes are ignored in their calculations.
However, if you've been keeping up with this forum and its tests and results, you might be aware that SI's information is often misleading. You can read more about it here:link.
The issue here is that attributes like "Finishing," which has been repeatedly shown to be of much less importance for most players, even strikers, are suddenly given significant weight in their calculations for various positions. This obviously skews the final results.
As it stands, I believe that FM Genie Scout still provides the most accurate results because it allows you to customize the weight of each attribute for different positions in the settings. By effectively adjusting these weights, you can prioritize attributes like Pace and Acceleration, which in reality have a more significant impact on a player's performance.
Originally inspired by the FM LineUp Tool, and subsequently Squirrel_Plays' Youtube videos I am working on very simple tool, just for private use, as it's far from a finished product to release.
The issue with these type of programs is that they're only able to take into account current attributes, and don't pay attention to possible future development of players. So FM Genie Scout is still King for me.