harvestgreen22 said: Comments from community players "Do a rough calculation ,The two-speed (pace Acceleration) ratio can reach about 40% , Except for the ones labeled , Other attributes can be said to be useless , unreasonable" Expand
Would be interesting to see what happens when Work-Rate is 1 and ACC/PAC are 20. Which one trumps out?
Yarema said: The difference between onefooted and both footed is really not that big and considering CA cost I'd argue it's better to invest that into some actual attributes. Could maybe use a test with value of say 6 and 10 or something. Expand
If I read the screenshot right Non-dominant feet 1 has 2.1 Both feet 20 has 20.1
That's a larger gap than OTB 1 vs OTB 20, or STR 1 vs STR 20.
Awesome work! I'm lacking superlatives to thank you!
The extremes of 1 in some of these attributes are staggering. At the same time, this is also good news! It means you can't just take a player with 20Pac/Acc/Dri and dominate everything. Well-rounded players are still desirable.
I wouldn't have expected that being single footed has such a big impact. This comes in stark contrast to some mainstream advice that it's not worth improving the weak-foot. It also means that it's worth comparing boosting off-foot VS traits like: 'Avoid weaker foot'
The gap between low determination, anticipation, concentration & dribbling is also surprising.
Out of curiosity... What happens if you abuse copy/paste training and do something like this with additional focus quickness? What would the CA grow up to?
I ain't 100% sure yet, but I tested this Ciro Immobile. And I am beginning to develop the suspicion that the single most important attribute for a striker is not pace, height or acceleration. It's "off-the-ball".
In a fit of irony, Mbappe underlines this with his current spell at Real. And players like Filippo Inzaghi who made it look so easy that they got mocked for it.
The problem I see with pacy strikers is that you need to pass the goal for them into the goldilocks zone, between the defender & goalkeeper before they're offside. And then they need to outrun the last defender and the goalkeeper AND do a placed shot or lob WHILE running at high speed and being under high pressure by both players. Thus the gap in pace & acceleration between the striker vs defender & goalkeeper needs to be more than just 1-2 attribute points.
Having high jumping reach works, but only as long as the jumping reach is higher than the goalkeeper's aerial reach, or the defender's jumping reach. So you'd need a striker who has just 1-2 jumping reach more than the goalkeeper's aerial reach, and you'd notice the difference. But finding a striker who has 17+ jumping reach is still difficult and even then, you have to deal with off-sides.
With off-the-ball movement, you're having your striker duel it out against the defender's positioning. And having high off-the-ball also means fewer offsides. Here 1-2 attribute points ahead of the defender's positioning seems to be enough to score goal after goal.
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The bias we see, I believe, with Acceleration, Pace & Jumping Reach is because of the way the positions work. The current meta tactics of 4-2-2-2 & 4-2-3-1 use 6/10 outfield positions that require speed & stamina. 2DMs (acting as BWM), AML+AMR, DL+DR.
Jumping reach is beneficial to goalkeepers, defenders & strikers, who seem to score more goals from set pieces if they have high jumping reach, but not so many goals otherwise. Thus there's 4/10 positions
The only position that seems to become broken with high off-the-ball movement is striker. It does not seem to contribute as much to any other position, at least not that I could observe.
The other attribute I hadn't paid as much attention to so far has been Aggression, which seems to synergize well with OTB.
I would expect the game to become broken if you have 20 OTB strikers, 20 PAC/ACC wingers, DLR & 20JR Defenders + Goalkeepers.
Ofc pacy tall strikers like Haaland & Osimhen will overperform at all times.
I noticed that the attribute testing is using a 4-2-3-1, whereas the current meta is dominated by a 4-2-2-2.
I'm curious whether running a 4-2-2-2 or 4-4-2 would rank the meta attributes differently, perhaps around the mid-tier.
The thing that has me a bit puzzled, is a bit of a chicken & egg problem. Do the tactics make pace & acceleration dominate, or do pace & acceleration make the tactics dominate?
Without knowing that, I wouldn't know how to answer the question: Is there a tactic in which Decision & Technique would dominate the way pace & acceleration dominate now?
It's a bug, but you can reproduce it by copy pasting the training weeks around. i.e.: put Match Practice on Monday & Sunday, paste it over a match week, copy paste that week onto a no-training week, and then you can add in up to 21 match practices. (assuming your players will survive that)
I've been lurking for some time and decided to make an account to propose a test to determine the best striker (which could then be transitioned into other roles).
From what I observed, we currently try to give the entire team specific attributes (or so I inferred from the tables I have seen).
My proposal would be to use one of the standard tactics with a lone striker, and give everyone 10 in all attributes, except the strikers, who will receive 20 for pace, acceleration & jumping reach (to remove the meta-attributes from the test)
Then we in turn give them: - each individual trait - each one of the highlighted key attributes (i.e.: finishing, dribbling, heading, long-shots etc)
By the end it would be interesting to see more than just the score results. Might be interesting to see who got most MoM or other such awards. That's to say, even if he does not score, he does things that increase his reputation and/or value as a player.
Perhaps such a test has already been performed, and I am just too bad at searching to find it? Would appreciate any feedback!
Comments from community players
"Do a rough calculation ,The two-speed (pace Acceleration) ratio can reach about 40% ,
Except for the ones labeled , Other attributes can be said to be useless , unreasonable"
Would be interesting to see what happens when Work-Rate is 1 and ACC/PAC are 20.
Which one trumps out?
If I read the screenshot right
Non-dominant feet 1 has 2.1
Both feet 20 has 20.1
That's a larger gap than OTB 1 vs OTB 20, or STR 1 vs STR 20.
The extremes of 1 in some of these attributes are staggering.
At the same time, this is also good news!
It means you can't just take a player with 20Pac/Acc/Dri and dominate everything.
Well-rounded players are still desirable.
I wouldn't have expected that being single footed has such a big impact. This comes in stark contrast to some mainstream advice that it's not worth improving the weak-foot. It also means that it's worth comparing boosting off-foot VS traits like: 'Avoid weaker foot'
The gap between low determination, anticipation, concentration & dribbling is also surprising.
Decision being worthless left me flabbergasted!
What happens if you abuse copy/paste training and do something like this with additional focus quickness? What would the CA grow up to?
It's "off-the-ball".
In a fit of irony, Mbappe underlines this with his current spell at Real.
And players like Filippo Inzaghi who made it look so easy that they got mocked for it.
The problem I see with pacy strikers is that you need to pass the goal for them into the goldilocks zone, between the defender & goalkeeper before they're offside. And then they need to outrun the last defender and the goalkeeper AND do a placed shot or lob WHILE running at high speed and being under high pressure by both players. Thus the gap in pace & acceleration between the striker vs defender & goalkeeper needs to be more than just 1-2 attribute points.
Having high jumping reach works, but only as long as the jumping reach is higher than the goalkeeper's aerial reach, or the defender's jumping reach. So you'd need a striker who has just 1-2 jumping reach more than the goalkeeper's aerial reach, and you'd notice the difference. But finding a striker who has 17+ jumping reach is still difficult and even then, you have to deal with off-sides.
With off-the-ball movement, you're having your striker duel it out against the defender's positioning. And having high off-the-ball also means fewer offsides. Here 1-2 attribute points ahead of the defender's positioning seems to be enough to score goal after goal.
---
The bias we see, I believe, with Acceleration, Pace & Jumping Reach is because of the way the positions work. The current meta tactics of 4-2-2-2 & 4-2-3-1 use 6/10 outfield positions that require speed & stamina. 2DMs (acting as BWM), AML+AMR, DL+DR.
Jumping reach is beneficial to goalkeepers, defenders & strikers, who seem to score more goals from set pieces if they have high jumping reach, but not so many goals otherwise. Thus there's 4/10 positions
The only position that seems to become broken with high off-the-ball movement is striker. It does not seem to contribute as much to any other position, at least not that I could observe.
The other attribute I hadn't paid as much attention to so far has been Aggression, which seems to synergize well with OTB.
I would expect the game to become broken if you have 20 OTB strikers, 20 PAC/ACC wingers, DLR & 20JR Defenders + Goalkeepers.
Ofc pacy tall strikers like Haaland & Osimhen will overperform at all times.
Changed ML & MR from Wide Midfielder to Winger
Removed Hold Position from CM
Player Instructions from EF-424: AF, PF, FB, CD & GK
DM player instructions applied to CM
I took the ML & MR instructions from DaydayUp PF,
and changed their role from Winger to Wide Midfielder.
All I see is Home Goals vs Away Goals.
whereas the current meta is dominated by a 4-2-2-2.
I'm curious whether running a 4-2-2-2 or 4-4-2 would rank the meta attributes differently, perhaps around the mid-tier.
The thing that has me a bit puzzled, is a bit of a chicken & egg problem.
Do the tactics make pace & acceleration dominate,
or do pace & acceleration make the tactics dominate?
Without knowing that, I wouldn't know how to answer the question:
Is there a tactic in which Decision & Technique would dominate the way pace & acceleration dominate now?
It's a bug, but you can reproduce it by copy pasting the training weeks around.
i.e.: put Match Practice on Monday & Sunday, paste it over a match week, copy paste that week onto a no-training week, and then you can add in up to 21 match practices.
(assuming your players will survive that)
I've been lurking for some time and decided to make an account to propose a test to determine the best striker (which could then be transitioned into other roles).
From what I observed, we currently try to give the entire team specific attributes (or so I inferred from the tables I have seen).
My proposal would be to use one of the standard tactics with a lone striker, and give everyone 10 in all attributes, except the strikers, who will receive 20 for pace, acceleration & jumping reach (to remove the meta-attributes from the test)
Then we in turn give them:
- each individual trait
- each one of the highlighted key attributes (i.e.: finishing, dribbling, heading, long-shots etc)
By the end it would be interesting to see more than just the score results. Might be interesting to see who got most MoM or other such awards. That's to say, even if he does not score, he does things that increase his reputation and/or value as a player.
Perhaps such a test has already been performed, and I am just too bad at searching to find it?
Would appreciate any feedback!