ZaZ said: My guess for why high Technical and Decisions is detrimental is because the game does not know what actions are the most effective. If you look at technical attributes, you will see that dribbling is more efficient than passing or shooting, possibly because pace and acceleration are over tuned in the engine, and dribbling makes use of both attributes. So, characters with high technical will have increased chance of success for passes and shots, while characters with high decisions will find better opportunities to pass and shoot. Unfortunately, the most effective is to pass and shoot as little as possible, unless you have those attributes much higher than dribbling attributes (including pace and acceleration).
So, in short, if I am not wrong: Pass 20 + Technique 20 + Other 10 > Pass 20 + Technique 10 + Other 10. Pass 20 + Technique 10 + Dribbling 20 + Pace 20 + Acceleration 20 + Other 10 > Pass 20 + Technique 20 + Dribbling 20 + Pace 20 + Acceleration 20 + Other 10.
The same is probably true for long shots or finishing. Expand
1. Passing传球15 Crossing传中15 Dribbling盘带15 Tackling抢断15 Finishing射门15 First touch停球15 Heading头球15 longshot远射15
Technique技术10 Flair才华10 other其他属性10
Goal difference 净胜球≈73.7
2. Passing传球15 Crossing传中15 Dribbling盘带15 Tackling抢断15 Finishing射门15 First touch停球15 Heading头球15 longshot远射15
Technique技术15 Flair才华10 other其他属性10
Goal difference 净胜球≈60.3
3. Passing传球15 Crossing传中15 Dribbling盘带15 Tackling抢断15 Finishing射门15 First touch停球15 Heading头球15 longshot远射15
Technique技术10 Flair才华15 other其他属性10
Goal difference 净胜球≈71.7
4. Passing传球15 Crossing传中15 Dribbling盘带15 Tackling抢断15 Finishing射门15 First touch停球15 Heading头球15 longshot远射15
Technique技术15 Flair才华15 other其他属性10
Goal difference 净胜球≈58.9
I added a situation (situation 4.), They're both at 15, Goal difference the lowest. don't know how to explain that mechanism I guess it's not as complicated as we might think: It's a bug,Or the mechanics aren't right
KBB said: Will this work for part time training in the lower leagues as yo only get 4 slots to adapt to your needs anyway and the rest is marked as unavailable. If I set the 4 slots as the best 4 combinations from the test should I get similar ca growth for those players? Expand
I haven't tried test semipro leagues , so I'm not sure
YAMS49 said: Been an FM player for ages and after reading this absolutely fascinating thread I have to ask a question if I may. Great work by the way, truly great work.
Rest & Individual Training Focus - I presume even with a schedule of full Rest the Individual Training Focus is still being done by the player/game in the background? So Individual Training Focus Quickness is still receiving Double Intensity even with full Rest in the team/main schedule?
This seems strange as the whole idea of rest is to rest is it not? If you're resting then surely you shouldn't be working on your Individual Training? Is this just a quirk of the training system?
Thank you. Expand
The training system, it's not actually training, it's assigning attributes Most of the information you can see in the table ,
simplely : all Rest = assigns attributes in the "default" way, Rest distributes attributes , in a way that sacrifices Technique class and mental class , to increases the physical class the most
Using different training is changing the way attributes are assigned The total stat growth you get is fixed (can increased by playing more matches) The total stat growth you get will not be increased by training.
If there is a certain class of attributes with no corresponding assigned weight, then this class of attributes will not grow. For example, in "Total Rest," technical and mental classes have not assigned weight, so that part of their growth is lost (but that's not necessarily a bad thing).
Individual Training -- Addtional Focus Individual Training -- Double Intensity they are Both are a way to change the assigned weight of attributes. Reading the table, you will see that they do not affect the total attribute growth you can get
Jolt said: But that is the flaw with these tests. If only the attribute 'Off the ball' or 'Flair' is increased, but the player doesn't have the physical or technical attributes to take advantage of the 'Off the ball' or 'Flair', of course it is going to look like a bad attribute. If these attributes are multiplicative of other attributes, and the other attributes are low, then of course these multiplicative attributes will look bad.
Your finishing & composure attributes example is not good. The truth is we don't know how much impact those two attributes have together, to say if it makes no difference, little difference, or a lot of difference.
The only way of making it clear is tedious work: You (or someone else) needs to run tests in groups of three attributes, raising them or lowering them together. This way, we'll gain insight into every 3 attribute combination, and by doing the average of every 3 attribute combination that have the same 2 attributes, we can also gain insight into which 2 attribute combination is good.
If you are correct, then the 3 attribute combination of 'Acceleration'+'Pace'+'Jumping Reach' should perform much better than any other combination, including 'Acceleration'+'Pace'+'Strength', or 'Passing'+'Decisions'+'Work Rate'. Expand
More testing of the effects of multivariables，
1. Passing传球15 Crossing传中15 Dribbling盘带15 Tackling抢断15 Finishing射门15 First touch停球15 Heading头球15 longshot远射15
Technique技术10 Flair才华10 other其他属性10
Goal difference 净胜球≈73.7
2. Passing传球15 Crossing传中15 Dribbling盘带15 Tackling抢断15 Finishing射门15 First touch停球15 Heading头球15 longshot远射15
Technique技术15 Flair才华10 other其他属性10
Goal difference 净胜球≈60.3
3. Passing传球15 Crossing传中15 Dribbling盘带15 Tackling抢断15 Finishing射门15 First touch停球15 Heading头球15 longshot远射15
Summary: 7. Under Control variable, From 1, 2, and 3, you can see, Even in the multivariable case, considering multiple technical type of attributes,
technical type of attributes 15 + Technique 10 (73.7) > technical type of attributes 15+ Technique 15 (60.3) ，This means that in this case, Technique is bad technical type of attributes 15 + Flair 10 (73.7) ≈/> technical type of attributes 15 + Flair 10 (71.7) ，This means that in this case, Flair have little/no influence
8. In the case of 4, 5, and 6, it's a little special, Dribbling 20 + Technique 20 (44.2) < Dribbling 20 + Technique 10 (53.6) Higher Technique is having a negative effect with Dribbling This means that in this case, Technique is bad
Passing 20 + Technique 20 (27.9) ≈/> Passing 20 + Technique 10 (24.5) Higher Technique may or may not have a positive effect with Passing Not much difference. It is also possible that the sample size is not large enough and resulting in random error
Finishing 20 + Technique 20 (33.7) ≈ Finishing 20 + Technique 10 (33.3) Higher Technique had no effect on Finishing passing
9. What is surprising is number 5, which means that it is possible for Technique to have some positive Stats and negative effects on others
Han106 said: @harvestgreen22 With this data, I wonder if the training schedules data can have Dribbling and Balance growth added with Pace, Acceleration and Jumping Reach.
Concentration, Anticipation, Determination，Agility can be used to separate ties in the transfer market but not a focus in training? Expand
Yes. Seeing if these secondary important attributes can also grow should also be a measure of the quality of the training Recently, I didn't have the energy to re-test the training program to see how these attributes grew as a percentage of total growth , as I am busy testing various attributes
Jolt said: But that is the flaw with these tests. If only the attribute 'Off the ball' or 'Flair' is increased, but the player doesn't have the physical or technical attributes to take advantage of the 'Off the ball' or 'Flair', of course it is going to look like a bad attribute. If these attributes are multiplicative of other attributes, and the other attributes are low, then of course these multiplicative attributes will look bad.
Your finishing & composure attributes example is not good. The truth is we don't know how much impact those two attributes have together, to say if it makes no difference, little difference, or a lot of difference.
The only way of making it clear is tedious work: You (or someone else) needs to run tests in groups of three attributes, raising them or lowering them together. This way, we'll gain insight into every 3 attribute combination, and by doing the average of every 3 attribute combination that have the same 2 attributes, we can also gain insight into which 2 attribute combination is good.
If you are correct, then the 3 attribute combination of 'Acceleration'+'Pace'+'Jumping Reach' should perform much better than any other combination, including 'Acceleration'+'Pace'+'Strength', or 'Passing'+'Decisions'+'Work Rate'. Expand
I'm trying more combinations, and maybe some of them are interacting with Technique and Flair
harvestgreen22 said: I have a different take on this test result, As I mentioned above, " Note that the difference between attributes is only used to show the degree of differentiation and cannot be used for direct quantified comparisons.(Because it's not standardized) . For example, "difference from the standard value +40" is not twice as useful as "difference from the standard value +20" . " This result is not "standardized." For example (hypothetical) a +40 attribute can be three times more important than a +20 attribute And a attribute of -40 is three times worse than an attribute of -20 attribute
that means , Ignore the Work rate, Paceand Acceleration have an amazing 171 and 161, which means that the importance of physical attributes is not limited to 61.47% in the picture, the importance of physical attributes must be much greater than 61.47% Expand
" Note that the difference between attributes is only used to show the degree of differentiation and cannot be used for direct quantified comparisons.(Because it's not standardized) . For example, "difference from the standard value +40" is not twice as useful as "difference from the standard value +20" . "
Or to put it in a better way, It's easier to score 2 goals in 1 match, But it's not just 500% harder to score 10 goals than to score 2 goals , it's a lot harder than 500%
so ,with standard Control Group 20.1, a stats with Goal difference (GD) 60.0 is much much more important than a stats with Goal difference (GD) 40.0 The closer a Stats is to 20.1, the less important it is
Yarema said: The difference between onefooted and both footed is really not that big and considering CA cost I'd argue it's better to invest that into some actual attributes. Could maybe use a test with value of say 6 and 10 or something. Expand
Possebrew said: Awesome work! I'm lacking superlatives to thank you!
The extremes of 1 in some of these attributes are staggering. At the same time, this is also good news! It means you can't just take a player with 20Pac/Acc/Dri and dominate everything. Well-rounded players are still desirable.
I wouldn't have expected that being single footed has such a big impact. This comes in stark contrast to some mainstream advice that it's not worth improving the weak-foot. It also means that it's worth comparing boosting off-foot VS traits like: 'Avoid weaker foot'
The gap between low determination, anticipation, concentration & dribbling is also surprising.
Decision being worthless left me flabbergasted! Expand
I have a different take on this test result, As I mentioned above, " Note that the difference between attributes is only used to show the degree of differentiation and cannot be used for direct quantified comparisons.(Because it's not standardized) . For example, "difference from the standard value +40" is not twice as useful as "difference from the standard value +20" . " This result is not "standardized." For example (hypothetical) a +40 attribute can be three times more important than a +20 attribute And a attribute of -40 is three times worse than an attribute of -20 attribute
that means , Ignore the Work rate, Paceand Acceleration have an amazing 171 and 161, which means that the importance of physical attributes is not limited to 61.47% in the picture, the importance of physical attributes must be much greater than 61.47%
baldg22 said: Should i be training my player in his position or leave it blank? Expand
training player in his position , with the Duty of Good High-light Stats
example ,you need this ST playing as Deep lying Forward but the Duty Deep lying Forward did't Highlight Jumping Reach Jumping Reach is a very strong stats and Highlighted stats can grow faster
so he still play as Deep lying Forward , but train duty should be a Complete Froward ( High light Jumping Reach ) ( or other duty high light Good Stats )
Jolt said: But that is the flaw with these tests. If only the attribute 'Off the ball' or 'Flair' is increased, but the player doesn't have the physical or technical attributes to take advantage of the 'Off the ball' or 'Flair', of course it is going to look like a bad attribute. If these attributes are multiplicative of other attributes, and the other attributes are low, then of course these multiplicative attributes will look bad.
Your finishing & composure attributes example is not good. The truth is we don't know how much impact those two attributes have together, to say if it makes no difference, little difference, or a lot of difference.
The only way of making it clear is tedious work: You (or someone else) needs to run tests in groups of three attributes, raising them or lowering them together. This way, we'll gain insight into every 3 attribute combination, and by doing the average of every 3 attribute combination that have the same 2 attributes, we can also gain insight into which 2 attribute combination is good.
If you are correct, then the 3 attribute combination of 'Acceleration'+'Pace'+'Jumping Reach' should perform much better than any other combination, including 'Acceleration'+'Pace'+'Strength', or 'Passing'+'Decisions'+'Work Rate'. Expand
In another test (tactics not this one), 1. I increase Passing, Crossing, Marking, Dribbling, Tackling, Finishing to 12, Technique Keep 10 unchanged. get A value of A
2. I increase Passing, Crossing, Marking, Dribbling, Tackling, Finishing to 12, Then reduce Technique to 5. get a value of B.
The result is B > A As I understand it as Technique can use Passing, Crossing, Marking, Dribbling, Tackling, Finishing, But reducing it Technique improve performance
Comments from community players "Do a rough calculation ,The two-speed (pace Acceleration) ratio can reach about 40% , Except for the ones labeled , Other attributes can be said to be useless , unreasonable"
* This is translated by a language translator and then manually corrected, there may be some loss of meaning after translation
Test setup: The league has 4 teams, A, C, D team is set to 4231 Meta tactics (https://fm-arena.com/thread/12667-god-of-chaos-v1/), B team is set to 4141 weak tactics, all attributes of all players are set to 10, locking various attributes.
Modify the player attributes of Team A (except for the goalkeeper, that is, adjust 10 players) to the corresponding value. Statistical the goal difference.
The C and D teams use a very strong 4231 tactics, which tests the players' defensive ability and performance under pressure from strong teams. The B team uses the weak 4141 tactics to test the players' ability to Beat up weak teams and score lots of goals.
It took 10 days to test, two computers together. 2 of the attributes were tested by the help of the community netizen , and the other 70 were tested by me. Inspired by this https://fm-arena.com/table/26-player-attributes-testing/ (November 2023 version)I thought, What if the attribute is 1 ?
1.How to read this table?
The standard(Control) group represents the goal difference of Team A when all attributes are 10, which is 20.1.
## Look at Technique 20, which represents Team A (apart from the goalkeeper) skill attribute increases from 10 to 20, and Statistical the goal difference of Team A, it's 16.5. 16.5 < 20.1 (standard) In other words, the Technique has increased by 10, but the goal difference has decreased. But not by much.
## Look at Vision 1 and Vision 20, 20.0 and 38.5 respectively. 20.0 < 20.1 < 38.5 In other words, when Vision is reduced from 10 to 1, so there is no change. However, when Vision was increased from 10 to 20, resulting in a goal difference increase of (38.5-20.1)=18.4
2. Noteworthy attributes
Lowering the Work rate 1 , it have very serious consequences (goal difference -110),
and it should be ensured that a player has at least 6 and preferably 10 Work rate. A player with a Work rate is not desirable. But continuing to increase Work rate (from 10->20) is low effect. The difference between Work rate 10 and Work rate 20 is relative small.
The 6-point attribute seems to be the threshold for some attributes.
Passing, Crossing, Marking, First touch, Positioning, Decision, Teamwork, Off the ball, Bravery, are all attributes that can be considered useless.
Technique and Flair, Higher values lead to worse performance. Spoiler
Yes, it's a scam. To Flair. There are two guesses, one is that "fancy tricks" cause players to spend more "frames" on the movement, resulting in a decrease in efficiency. The other is that more "fancy tricks" contribute not enough to the mathematical expectation when attacking, while the mathematical expectation of being scored when defending increases more than attacking scored
Core attributes are these: Special : Work rate (need to reach 10, higher is useless), Pace, Acceleration, Jumping reach, Dribbling, Balance, Concentration, Anticipation, Determination，Agility.
According to the comparison of attribute 20 with attribute 10: Pace + Acceleration 2 most important cores, Jumping reach + Dribbling 2 secondary cores, Balance can be considered a level 3 attribute, level 4 attribute Anticipation and Concentration
Other attributes, which are although have effect, but much less effective.
Note that the difference between attributes is only used to show the degree of differentiation and cannot be used for direct quantified comparisons.(Because it's not standardized) . For example, "difference from the standard value +40" is not twice as useful as "difference from the standard value +20" .
3.Sample
According to the Law of Large Numbers in statistics, as long as the sample is large enough, the value you get will be closer and closer to the mathematical expectation
In terms of important attributes, there are about 950-1080 Match samples. According to statistical estimates, the margin error of attribute is ≤ 3.
In the non-important attributes, there are about 450 Match samples. According to statistical estimates, the margin error of attribute is ≤ 8
4.margin error
Is that a conclusion that only applies to 4231 and certain opponents? You know, tactics can vary a lot. Moreover, 4231 players are not evenly distributed, for example, there is only 1 striker. And tactics, duties, and commands all affect the importance of attributes. There is also the test of the Go-on-holiday, even if the game is set to maximum detail, will it get unreal values?
——Go-on-holiday have been studied, and I won't repeat it in a lot of words, but I choose to trust their findings
——Taking into account different tactics and different opponents, an additional 3,600 match were played, To test two other tactics, one is Default tiki-taka 433. And Default counter-attack 442. They will have different standard values and different attributes deviating from the standard, but "importance level" of each attribute not change.
For example, in the tactics where Passing is more important, Passing (around 24 in the table) is still not important than dribbling (more than 50 in the table) or Finishing (33 in the table) in any tactic. This also shows that the game is not complicated to do a separate set of calculations for each tactic, but a relatively universal calculation method. And this method of calculation, my personal observation, is more conducive to offensive.
——Similarly, the problem of player distribution does not have a "decisive" effect, but only a statistical perturbation of some value.
5.Multiple variables
some comments said that the performance of attributes is A multi-variable problem, for example, the A attribute is evaluated at the same time as the B attribute.
Some people will think that testing a player who First touch 10 and Finishing 15, because the player can't stop the ball and it doesn't matter how high the Finishing is, so this test is wrong.
However, if an attribute is weighted with one or more other attributes, all associated attributes must be found. In the end all testing is either pointless or too tedious to do. Since it is statistically possible to tell the difference, let's use this result as a conclusion
Now, imagine a mathematical problem. Player A's Composure is 10, provides 20% of the goal scoring ability. Finishing 10, providing 10 accuracy shots on goal per game. The end result is 10x20%=2 balls.
If this is a multivariate problem, then Composure 20, assuming it provides 50% of the goal scoring ability. The end result is 10x50%=5 balls. So 2 becomes 5. The difference "5-2=3" may or may not be obvious. Those that are not obvious are actually the effect of interaction is not good, since it is so small, it can simply be ignored. If there is an effect, it must be reflected in the statistical results.
Unless it is using some more complex mechanism, for example, it detects composure 20, and if the shot is not ≥15, the goal scoring ability % does not increase. I'm not going to consider that possibility.
6.don't bring the logic of reality into the game
For example, there is such a reply: there is no "speed 20" and other attributes are 10 in reality . Or, "Should use balabala" attributes to design all forwards/centers/back guards to reflect the real situation.
The results, as long as the control variable method is followed, make no difference (since the game seems unlikely to use the "more complex" mechanics mentioned above).
7. Why not test each player individually, such as the striker
Because it's so much work, And the impact each player has on the team's goal difference is likely to be the difference between the actual measured value and the standard value, which is always disturbed by larger random perturbations, because a tactic is mostly 1-3 strikers, who make up less than 30% of the 11 men. If you want to measure the true value, you need a very, very large number of samples
8. The goalkeeper? Similar to the above reasons. mishap If you want to measure the true value, you need a very, very large number of samples
9. Why testing just one season The result is completely inaccurate? (from reply) The random perturbation in the game is very large, which means that if you only play 30 to 40 games (a season), the result is likely to deviate significantly from the true value
One might also suspect that the test is not rigorous enough, it's not scientific enough, it's not an actual season, it's a nice ideal environment, and so on, and then argue that the empirical results under a lot of interference are more accurate than the results obtained under the control variable method
10.thoughts
Like the previous "1CA Win Champion", many people will dismiss this as a conspiracy theory before testing reveals the game mechanics. After the revelation, some players believe that this kind of testing is just excessive pursuit of intensity at the expense of game life. But that's not the purpose of the test.
My goal in testing this is the same as the goal of many gamers: to force the game company to continuously improve the old mechanics it has used for years, to change the fundamental engine flaws, and to prevent players from playing a "placebo simulator". Why a placebo simulator? There are people who take real football and put a lot of time and energy into the game, there are a lot of players who put a lot of energy into the video, I also enjoy these passionate things But, As a result, the game engine does not do these functions at all, these players believe and carefully prepared, essentially reflected in the game engine is useless. The game relies on some very simple data and then randomizes it to make players think they are playing a real simulation. Then the game company can just change the appearance of their game, sell it for generations, and advertise that they are making a simulation full of interactivity
What's more, the authorities have banned discussions on official forums and continue to mislead consumers. You can only find information in unofficial forums.
Like the game training system I tested, I only played the FM2024 generation , and now only a 300 hours player, and many previous generations, plus the latest generation, have a lot of players who spend a lot of time researching and sharing their training findings. As a result, these players actually played a placebo simulator
There are even some emotionally invested players who bury their heads in the sand and refuse to believe (forgive me for being overly aggressive) the results of these tests that reveal Physical man is Superman. These players who have invested money and effort should enjoy the same experience as the simulation theory, not the illusion of a fake mechanic.
It's not the player's fault, it's the game company's fault. players love football simulation games, doesn't mean you should accept a flawed game, especially when the game's biggest selling point and publicity point is simulation. You can choose not to play. Or you can stay and protest together in one way or another and force the game company to change. You can also play the game as much as you want, without deliberately using these "intensity mechanics" and have fun.
Can you use 2 different variations of training during a season.
For example when the schedule is not heavy you can use a more intensive one like Y6 then on a heavy schedule you use a less intensive one? Expand
I haven't tested mixing different training schedules , So the effect of their numeralization is not known now in theory it would be an intermediate between the two
——when the schedule is not heavy you can use a more intensive one like Y6 then on a heavy schedule you use a less intensive one? yes , I did the same
sylekta said: @harvestgreen22 How would you arrange Y6 when you have 2 games? Do you schedule training the next day after a match? My concern is players wont be recovered so they will miss the training due to the no pitch or gym work if they have not recovered to green Would it be better to drop all match practise, and give them the full day off on wed? And do the Attacking/Defending on Thu, and an Overall on Fri?
eg Expand
IF you need full Y6, this: Giving players a full day off after a game, combined with the automatic intensity 1 day rest, allows them to recover more physical strength (and, of course, it will lower more match Sharpness).
And in my personal opinion (Not necessarily right, it's just my style), I would sacrifice some of stat growth to reduce the risk of injury, and I would reduce it to something like this:
So, in short, if I am not wrong:
Pass 20 + Technique 20 + Other 10 > Pass 20 + Technique 10 + Other 10.
Pass 20 + Technique 10 + Dribbling 20 + Pace 20 + Acceleration 20 + Other 10 > Pass 20 + Technique 20 + Dribbling 20 + Pace 20 + Acceleration 20 + Other 10.
The same is probably true for long shots or finishing.
1.
Passing传球15
Crossing传中15
Dribbling盘带15
Tackling抢断15
Finishing射门15
First touch停球15
Heading头球15
longshot远射15
Technique技术10
Flair才华10
other其他属性10
Goal difference 净胜球≈73.7
2.
Passing传球15
Crossing传中15
Dribbling盘带15
Tackling抢断15
Finishing射门15
First touch停球15
Heading头球15
longshot远射15
Technique技术15
Flair才华10
other其他属性10
Goal difference 净胜球≈60.3
3.
Passing传球15
Crossing传中15
Dribbling盘带15
Tackling抢断15
Finishing射门15
First touch停球15
Heading头球15
longshot远射15
Technique技术10
Flair才华15
other其他属性10
Goal difference 净胜球≈71.7
4.
Passing传球15
Crossing传中15
Dribbling盘带15
Tackling抢断15
Finishing射门15
First touch停球15
Heading头球15
longshot远射15
Technique技术15
Flair才华15
other其他属性10
Goal difference 净胜球≈58.9
I added a situation (situation 4.), They're both at 15, Goal difference the lowest.
don't know how to explain that mechanism
I guess it's not as complicated as we might think: It's a bug,Or the mechanics aren't right
I haven't tried test semipro leagues , so I'm not sure
Rest & Individual Training Focus - I presume even with a schedule of full Rest the Individual Training Focus is still being done by the player/game in the background? So Individual Training Focus Quickness is still receiving Double Intensity even with full Rest in the team/main schedule?
This seems strange as the whole idea of rest is to rest is it not? If you're resting then surely you shouldn't be working on your Individual Training? Is this just a quirk of the training system?
Thank you.
The training system, it's not actually training, it's assigning attributes
Most of the information you can see in the table ,
simplely :
all Rest = assigns attributes in the "default" way,
Rest distributes attributes , in a way that sacrifices Technique class and mental class , to increases the physical class the most
Using different training is changing the way attributes are assigned
The total stat growth you get is fixed (can increased by playing more matches)
The total stat growth you get will not be increased by training.
If there is a certain class of attributes with no corresponding assigned weight, then this class of attributes will not grow.
For example, in "Total Rest," technical and mental classes have not assigned weight, so that part of their growth is lost (but that's not necessarily a bad thing).
Individual Training -- Addtional Focus
Individual Training -- Double Intensity
they are Both are a way to change the assigned weight of attributes. Reading the table, you will see that they do not affect the total attribute growth you can get
Your finishing & composure attributes example is not good. The truth is we don't know how much impact those two attributes have together, to say if it makes no difference, little difference, or a lot of difference.
The only way of making it clear is tedious work: You (or someone else) needs to run tests in groups of three attributes, raising them or lowering them together. This way, we'll gain insight into every 3 attribute combination, and by doing the average of every 3 attribute combination that have the same 2 attributes, we can also gain insight into which 2 attribute combination is good.
If you are correct, then the 3 attribute combination of 'Acceleration'+'Pace'+'Jumping Reach' should perform much better than any other combination, including 'Acceleration'+'Pace'+'Strength', or 'Passing'+'Decisions'+'Work Rate'.
More testing of the effects of multivariables，
1.
Passing传球15
Crossing传中15
Dribbling盘带15
Tackling抢断15
Finishing射门15
First touch停球15
Heading头球15
longshot远射15
Technique技术10
Flair才华10
other其他属性10
Goal difference 净胜球≈73.7
2.
Passing传球15
Crossing传中15
Dribbling盘带15
Tackling抢断15
Finishing射门15
First touch停球15
Heading头球15
longshot远射15
Technique技术15
Flair才华10
other其他属性10
Goal difference 净胜球≈60.3
3.
Passing传球15
Crossing传中15
Dribbling盘带15
Tackling抢断15
Finishing射门15
First touch停球15
Heading头球15
longshot远射15
Technique技术10
Flair才华15
other其他属性10
Goal difference 净胜球≈71.7
4.
Dribbling盘带20
Technique技术20
other其他属性10
Goal difference 净胜球≈44.2
Dribbling盘带20
Technique技术10
other其他属性10
Goal difference 净胜球=53.6
5.
Passing传球20
Technique技术20
other其他属性10
Goal difference 净胜球≈27.9
Passing传球20
Technique技术10
other其他属性10
Goal difference 净胜球=24.5
6.
Finishing传球20
Technique技术20
other其他属性10
Goal difference 净胜球≈33.7
Finishing传球20
Technique技术10
other其他属性10
Goal difference 净胜球=33.3
Summary:
7.
Under Control variable,
From 1, 2, and 3, you can see,
Even in the multivariable case, considering multiple technical type of attributes,
technical type of attributes 15 + Technique 10 (73.7) > technical type of attributes 15+ Technique 15 (60.3) ，This means that in this case, Technique is bad
technical type of attributes 15 + Flair 10 (73.7) ≈/> technical type of attributes 15 + Flair 10 (71.7) ，This means that in this case, Flair have little/no influence
8.
In the case of 4, 5, and 6, it's a little special,
Dribbling 20 + Technique 20 (44.2) < Dribbling 20 + Technique 10 (53.6)
Higher Technique is having a negative effect with Dribbling
This means that in this case, Technique is bad
Passing 20 + Technique 20 (27.9) ≈/> Passing 20 + Technique 10 (24.5)
Higher Technique may or may not have a positive effect with Passing
Not much difference.
It is also possible that the sample size is not large enough and resulting in random error
Finishing 20 + Technique 20 (33.7) ≈ Finishing 20 + Technique 10 (33.3)
Higher Technique had no effect on Finishing passing
9.
What is surprising is number 5,
which means that it is possible for Technique to have some positive Stats and negative effects on others
Concentration, Anticipation, Determination，Agility can be used to separate ties in the transfer market but not a focus in training?
Yes.
Seeing if these secondary important attributes can also grow should also be a measure of the quality of the training
Recently, I didn't have the energy to re-test the training program to see how these attributes grew as a percentage of total growth , as I am busy testing various attributes
Your finishing & composure attributes example is not good. The truth is we don't know how much impact those two attributes have together, to say if it makes no difference, little difference, or a lot of difference.
The only way of making it clear is tedious work: You (or someone else) needs to run tests in groups of three attributes, raising them or lowering them together. This way, we'll gain insight into every 3 attribute combination, and by doing the average of every 3 attribute combination that have the same 2 attributes, we can also gain insight into which 2 attribute combination is good.
If you are correct, then the 3 attribute combination of 'Acceleration'+'Pace'+'Jumping Reach' should perform much better than any other combination, including 'Acceleration'+'Pace'+'Strength', or 'Passing'+'Decisions'+'Work Rate'.
I'm trying more combinations, and maybe some of them are interacting with Technique and Flair
Like
Passing20，Finishing20，Dribbling20，Technique20，Flair20，other 10 : 70.7
Passing20，Finishing20，Dribbling20，Technique20，Flair10，other 10 : 80.4
Passing20，Finishing20，Dribbling20，Technique10，Flair20，other 10 : testing
Passing20，Technique20，Flair10，other 10 :testing
Finishing20，Technique20，Flair10，other 10 :testing
Dribbling20，Technique20，Flair10，other 10 :testing
Passing20，Technique10，Flair20，other 10 :testing
Finishing20，Technique10，Flair20，other 10 :testing
Dribbling20，Technique10，Flair20，other 10 :testing
As I mentioned above,
"
Note that the difference between attributes is only used to show the degree of differentiation and cannot be used for direct quantified comparisons.(Because it's not standardized) . For example, "difference from the standard value +40" is not twice as useful as "difference from the standard value +20" .
"
This result is not "standardized."
For example (hypothetical)
a +40 attribute can be three times more important than a +20 attribute
And
a attribute of -40 is three times worse than an attribute of -20 attribute
that means ,
Ignore the Work rate,
Paceand Acceleration have an amazing 171 and 161,
which means that the importance of physical attributes is not limited to 61.47% in the picture,
the importance of physical attributes must be much greater than 61.47%
"
Note that the difference between attributes is only used to show the degree of differentiation and cannot be used for direct quantified comparisons.(Because it's not standardized) . For example, "difference from the standard value +40" is not twice as useful as "difference from the standard value +20" .
"
Or to put it in a better way,
It's easier to score 2 goals in 1 match,
But it's not just 500% harder to score 10 goals than to score 2 goals , it's a lot harder than 500%
so ,with standard Control Group 20.1,
a stats with Goal difference (GD) 60.0 is much much more important than a stats with Goal difference (GD) 40.0
The closer a Stats is to 20.1, the less important it is
Non-dominant feet = 1 2.1
Non-dominant feet = 6 11.7
Non-dominant feet = 10 12.7
Left Feet = Right Feet = 20 20.1
The extremes of 1 in some of these attributes are staggering.
At the same time, this is also good news!
It means you can't just take a player with 20Pac/Acc/Dri and dominate everything.
Well-rounded players are still desirable.
I wouldn't have expected that being single footed has such a big impact. This comes in stark contrast to some mainstream advice that it's not worth improving the weak-foot. It also means that it's worth comparing boosting off-foot VS traits like: 'Avoid weaker foot'
The gap between low determination, anticipation, concentration & dribbling is also surprising.
Decision being worthless left me flabbergasted!
I have a different take on this test result,
As I mentioned above,
"
Note that the difference between attributes is only used to show the degree of differentiation and cannot be used for direct quantified comparisons.(Because it's not standardized) . For example, "difference from the standard value +40" is not twice as useful as "difference from the standard value +20" .
"
This result is not "standardized."
For example (hypothetical)
a +40 attribute can be three times more important than a +20 attribute
And
a attribute of -40 is three times worse than an attribute of -20 attribute
that means ,
Ignore the Work rate,
Paceand Acceleration have an amazing 171 and 161,
which means that the importance of physical attributes is not limited to 61.47% in the picture,
the importance of physical attributes must be much greater than 61.47%
training player in his position , with the Duty of Good High-light Stats
example ,you need this ST playing as Deep lying Forward
but the Duty Deep lying Forward did't Highlight Jumping Reach
Jumping Reach is a very strong stats
and Highlighted stats can grow faster
so he still play as Deep lying Forward , but train duty should be a Complete Froward ( High light Jumping Reach ) ( or other duty high light Good Stats )
Your finishing & composure attributes example is not good. The truth is we don't know how much impact those two attributes have together, to say if it makes no difference, little difference, or a lot of difference.
The only way of making it clear is tedious work: You (or someone else) needs to run tests in groups of three attributes, raising them or lowering them together. This way, we'll gain insight into every 3 attribute combination, and by doing the average of every 3 attribute combination that have the same 2 attributes, we can also gain insight into which 2 attribute combination is good.
If you are correct, then the 3 attribute combination of 'Acceleration'+'Pace'+'Jumping Reach' should perform much better than any other combination, including 'Acceleration'+'Pace'+'Strength', or 'Passing'+'Decisions'+'Work Rate'.
In another test (tactics not this one),
1. I increase Passing, Crossing, Marking, Dribbling, Tackling, Finishing to 12,
Technique Keep 10 unchanged.
get A value of A
2. I increase Passing, Crossing, Marking, Dribbling, Tackling, Finishing to 12,
Then reduce Technique to 5.
get a value of B.
The result is B > A
As I understand it as Technique can use Passing, Crossing, Marking, Dribbling, Tackling, Finishing,
But reducing it Technique improve performance
add height , Consistency ,Non-dominant feet
add
Non-dominant feet = 6
Non-dominant feet = 10
Comments from community players
"Do a rough calculation ,The two-speed (pace Acceleration) ratio can reach about 40% ,
Except for the ones labeled , Other attributes can be said to be useless , unreasonable"
add 210cm 75kg
Test setup: The league has 4 teams, A, C, D team is set to 4231 Meta tactics (https://fm-arena.com/thread/12667-god-of-chaos-v1/), B team is set to 4141 weak tactics, all attributes of all players are set to 10, locking various attributes.
Modify the player attributes of Team A (except for the goalkeeper, that is, adjust 10 players) to the corresponding value.
Statistical the goal difference.
The C and D teams use a very strong 4231 tactics, which tests the players' defensive ability and performance under pressure from strong teams.
The B team uses the weak 4141 tactics to test the players' ability to Beat up weak teams and score lots of goals.
It took 10 days to test, two computers together. 2 of the attributes were tested by the help of the community netizen , and the other 70 were tested by me.
Inspired by this https://fm-arena.com/table/26-player-attributes-testing/ (November 2023 version)I thought, What if the attribute is 1 ?
1.How to read this table?
The standard(Control) group represents the goal difference of Team A when all attributes are 10, which is 20.1.
## Look at Technique 20, which represents Team A (apart from the goalkeeper) skill attribute increases from 10 to 20, and Statistical the goal difference of Team A, it's 16.5.
16.5 < 20.1 (standard)
In other words, the Technique has increased by 10, but the goal difference has decreased. But not by much.
## Look at Vision 1 and Vision 20, 20.0 and 38.5 respectively.
20.0 < 20.1 < 38.5
In other words, when Vision is reduced from 10 to 1, so there is no change.
However, when Vision was increased from 10 to 20, resulting in a goal difference increase of (38.5-20.1)=18.4
2. Noteworthy attributes
Lowering the Work rate 1 ,
it have very serious consequences (goal difference -110),
and it should be ensured that a player has at least 6 and preferably 10 Work rate.
A player with a Work rate is not desirable.
But continuing to increase Work rate (from 10->20) is low effect. The difference between Work rate 10 and Work rate 20 is relative small.
The 6-point attribute seems to be the threshold for some attributes.
Passing, Crossing, Marking, First touch, Positioning, Decision, Teamwork, Off the ball, Bravery, are all attributes that can be considered useless.
Technique and Flair, Higher values lead to worse performance.
Spoiler Yes, it's a scam.
To Flair. There are two guesses,
one is that "fancy tricks" cause players to spend more "frames" on the movement, resulting in a decrease in efficiency.
The other is that more "fancy tricks" contribute not enough to the mathematical expectation when attacking, while the mathematical expectation of being scored when defending increases more than attacking scored
Core attributes are these:
Special : Work rate (need to reach 10, higher is useless),
Pace, Acceleration, Jumping reach, Dribbling, Balance, Concentration, Anticipation, Determination，Agility.
According to the comparison of attribute 20 with attribute 10:
Pace + Acceleration 2 most important cores,
Jumping reach + Dribbling 2 secondary cores,
Balance can be considered a level 3 attribute,
level 4 attribute Anticipation and Concentration
Other attributes, which are although have effect, but much less effective.
Note that the difference between attributes is only used to show the degree of differentiation and cannot be used for direct quantified comparisons.(Because it's not standardized) . For example, "difference from the standard value +40" is not twice as useful as "difference from the standard value +20" .
3.Sample
According to the Law of Large Numbers in statistics, as long as the sample is large enough, the value you get will be closer and closer to the mathematical expectation
In terms of important attributes, there are about 950-1080 Match samples. According to statistical estimates, the margin error of attribute is ≤ 3.
In the non-important attributes, there are about 450 Match samples. According to statistical estimates, the margin error of attribute is ≤ 8
4.margin error
Is that a conclusion that only applies to 4231 and certain opponents?
You know, tactics can vary a lot.
Moreover, 4231 players are not evenly distributed, for example, there is only 1 striker.
And tactics, duties, and commands all affect the importance of attributes.
There is also the test of the Go-on-holiday, even if the game is set to maximum detail, will it get unreal values?
——Go-on-holiday have been studied, and I won't repeat it in a lot of words, but I choose to trust their findings
——Taking into account different tactics and different opponents, an additional 3,600 match were played,
To test two other tactics, one is Default tiki-taka 433. And Default counter-attack 442.
They will have different standard values and different attributes deviating from the standard, but "importance level" of each attribute not change.
For example, in the tactics where Passing is more important,
Passing (around 24 in the table) is still not important than dribbling (more than 50 in the table) or Finishing (33 in the table) in any tactic.
This also shows that the game is not complicated to do a separate set of calculations for each tactic, but a relatively universal calculation method.
And this method of calculation, my personal observation, is more conducive to offensive.
——Similarly, the problem of player distribution does not have a "decisive" effect, but only a statistical perturbation of some value.
5.Multiple variables
some comments said that the performance of attributes is A multi-variable problem, for example, the A attribute is evaluated at the same time as the B attribute.
Some people will think that testing a player who First touch 10 and Finishing 15, because the player can't stop the ball and it doesn't matter how high the Finishing is, so this test is wrong.
However, if an attribute is weighted with one or more other attributes, all associated attributes must be found. In the end all testing is either pointless or too tedious to do.
Since it is statistically possible to tell the difference, let's use this result as a conclusion
Now, imagine a mathematical problem. Player A's Composure is 10, provides 20% of the goal scoring ability. Finishing 10, providing 10 accuracy shots on goal per game. The end result is 10x20%=2 balls.
If this is a multivariate problem, then Composure 20, assuming it provides 50% of the goal scoring ability. The end result is 10x50%=5 balls. So 2 becomes 5. The difference "5-2=3" may or may not be obvious.
Those that are not obvious are actually the effect of interaction is not good, since it is so small, it can simply be ignored.
If there is an effect, it must be reflected in the statistical results.
Unless it is using some more complex mechanism, for example, it detects composure 20, and if the shot is not ≥15, the goal scoring ability % does not increase. I'm not going to consider that possibility.
6.don't bring the logic of reality into the game
For example, there is such a reply: there is no "speed 20" and other attributes are 10 in reality .
Or, "Should use balabala" attributes to design all forwards/centers/back guards to reflect the real situation.
The results, as long as the control variable method is followed, make no difference (since the game seems unlikely to use the "more complex" mechanics mentioned above).
7. Why not test each player individually, such as the striker
Because it's so much work,
And the impact each player has on the team's goal difference is likely to be the difference between the actual measured value and the standard value, which is always disturbed by larger random perturbations, because a tactic is mostly 1-3 strikers, who make up less than 30% of the 11 men.
If you want to measure the true value, you need a very, very large number of samples
8. The goalkeeper?
Similar to the above reasons. mishap
If you want to measure the true value, you need a very, very large number of samples
9. Why testing just one season The result is completely inaccurate? (from reply)
The random perturbation in the game is very large, which means that if you only play 30 to 40 games (a season), the result is likely to deviate significantly from the true value
One might also suspect that the test is not rigorous enough,
it's not scientific enough,
it's not an actual season,
it's a nice ideal environment,
and so on,
and then argue that the empirical results under a lot of interference are more accurate than the results obtained under the control variable method
10.thoughts
Like the previous "1CA Win Champion", many people will dismiss this as a conspiracy theory before testing reveals the game mechanics. After the revelation, some players believe that this kind of testing is just excessive pursuit of intensity at the expense of game life. But that's not the purpose of the test.
My goal in testing this is the same as the goal of many gamers: to force the game company to continuously improve the old mechanics it has used for years, to change the fundamental engine flaws, and to prevent players from playing a "placebo simulator". Why a placebo simulator? There are people who take real football and put a lot of time and energy into the game, there are a lot of players who put a lot of energy into the video, I also enjoy these passionate things
But,
As a result, the game engine does not do these functions at all, these players believe and carefully prepared, essentially reflected in the game engine is useless. The game relies on some very simple data and then randomizes it to make players think they are playing a real simulation. Then the game company can just change the appearance of their game, sell it for generations, and advertise that they are making a simulation full of interactivity
What's more, the authorities have banned discussions on official forums and continue to mislead consumers. You can only find information in unofficial forums.
Like the game training system I tested, I only played the FM2024 generation , and now only a 300 hours player, and many previous generations, plus the latest generation, have a lot of players who spend a lot of time researching and sharing their training findings.
As a result, these players actually played a placebo simulator
There are even some emotionally invested players who bury their heads in the sand and refuse to believe (forgive me for being overly aggressive) the results of these tests that reveal Physical man is Superman. These players who have invested money and effort should enjoy the same experience as the simulation theory, not the illusion of a fake mechanic.
It's not the player's fault, it's the game company's fault. players love football simulation games, doesn't mean you should accept a flawed game, especially when the game's biggest selling point and publicity point is simulation. You can choose not to play. Or you can stay and protest together in one way or another and force the game company to change. You can also play the game as much as you want, without deliberately using these "intensity mechanics" and have fun.
This is no problem.
Can you use 2 different variations of training during a season.
For example when the schedule is not heavy you can use a more intensive one like Y6 then on a heavy schedule you use a less intensive one?
I haven't tested mixing different training schedules , So the effect of their numeralization is not known now
in theory it would be an intermediate between the two
——when the schedule is not heavy you can use a more intensive one like Y6 then on a heavy schedule you use a less intensive one?
yes , I did the same
Would it be better to drop all match practise, and give them the full day off on wed? And do the Attacking/Defending on Thu, and an Overall on Fri?
eg
IF you need full Y6,
this:
Giving players a full day off after a game, combined with the automatic intensity 1 day rest, allows them to recover more physical strength (and, of course, it will lower more match Sharpness).
And in my personal opinion (Not necessarily right, it's just my style),
I would sacrifice some of stat growth to reduce the risk of injury,
and I would reduce it to something like this:
I don't really have an answer for that, it's probably a complicated question
You may need to adjust flexibly according to different actual conditions