mcqueenhaffarguzz said: hey, i read your research, but i would still like to know what you think is the best training setup.
for someone like me for example, im in the premier league and champions league and my training schedule thing is very tight and i try to do the quickness, match practice x2, and then an overall (with all players at quickness additional).
but its hard for me to fit them in and i know you said in a comment that you recommend no training at all but i cant help to thing that my players wouldnt be good enought anymore and their stats would downgrade to a point where i would start to go down in the league.
sorry if this is a long comment but i would just like to know what training setup you would recommend me!
and btw i have rougly 2 matches a week, maybe more and if you want any pictures of my schedule i would gladly send some!
EDIT: also like i said my schedule is very tight so i put the trainings in between the games and i have started to get ALOT of injuries. is there a better way to train the players with the same training schedule? Expand
Looking back, I realize that some of the comments I made later may have been too extreme (my view at the time was that only attributes like speed, burst, and bounce mattered, All other attributes are not important)
One of the bigger tests I'm doing : About "whether these properties are useful" It may take some time for me to solve this problem in the new post form (haven't completed the test yet).
——and For the weeks have 0 matches a week
if you're not going for "extreme speed" then, on the chart, if (Pa+Ac+Ju) is high Per man CA is also high The training is good,
[Quickness]+[Attacking]+[Defending]+[Overall]+[play from the back]+[Match Practice]x2+[Addtional Focus Quickness]+[Double Intensity]
They are all quality training, arguably twice as effective as the training arranged by the "AI assistant", and have fewer injuries.
Of course you have to pay attention to "Sharpness" and things like that, like, Before the season started, Supplement it with friendly match or occasional training sessions
——and For the weeks have 2-3 matches a week
All rest , no train I personally think that with this matching schedule, it is more important to reduce injuries
——and For the weeks have 1 matches a week
If you're worried about injuries, you can cut on schedule, For example, [Quickness]+[Match Practice]x2+[Overall] Reduce to [Quickness]+[Match Practice]+[Overall] Or [Quickness]+[Match Practice]
KaiFm said: Hi, great experiment and well done for your efforts.
I have a question. If you stipulate 2x Match Practice is that the same if you have 1 or 2 matches that week? For example the team has a mid week game and a Saturday, would you still add in 2 match practices?
Thank you. Expand
——2x Match Practice is that the same if you have 1 or 2 matches that week Not the same
match Practice is a "training". and it also participate in the CA distribution.
While "friendly Match" and "Formal Match" are both "Match," It does not participate in the distribution, but it can Increase the total number of CA you can get , You can see this by comparing the values of participation in 0,10,20,30 Match in the table
"friendly Match" Is a "very inferior" Formal Match, so players can't get the same effect by only playing a lot of "friendly Match"
——would you still add in 2 match practices? Most of the time I don't do it , For fewer injuries
Possebrew said: Out of curiosity... What happens if you abuse copy/paste training and do something like this with additional focus quickness? What would the CA grow up to? Expand
CA growth has a "ceiling" You can see in the table that for players who played 30 games, 20 years old (all the players I tested were 20 years old), Professional 20. The upper limit is 25.5
Even though I added a very large amount of training, like 12 to 15 times a week in some of the training, he didn't break that limit, to unlock more caps , Play more matches
svonn said: Thanks for your effort @harvestgreen22 <3 Would you mind testing how a single session of set-piece and/or team bonding would affect the results, especially with the lighter sessions like Y6? I'd imagine something like that could be the best of both worlds in terms of development, match fitness and other benefits. But it could also be quite detrimental to the player developement. Expand
I'm busy with another test, and if I finish it and I still have time I'll test the one you mentioned
Footballenjoyer said: I think this training method is probably best at growing physical attributes in the shortest amount of time because its double intensity with a lower risk of injury due to less training schedules.
There's probably a schedule where its double intensity: Quick+match practisex2+ 1xattack+defense + maybe something else per week. Attacking and defending training max out efficiency at 4 but it's not really focused, you can just run 1 per week to stop the attribute decay.
The biggest problem I see with the data collected on CA/PA growth is:
1. Its simply counting CA growth per season but doesn't correctly discount how much decision cost in CA which inflate a players CA without meaningfully improve a players ability (I could be wrong since I didn't see the weighting, same thing with aggression which is a negative stat)
2. A lot of the technical training/attacking/defending training yeilded 0 growth for attacking unit or defensive unit. Is it because the tester have not moved players into the unit that's being focused trained? That skew the efficiency toward the training that train outfield players as a whole. Expand
There is a part of English, after translation, I can not understand, sorry
Here's how I arrange the players: (DCL,DCR,DL,DR,DM), 5 people, they are in the defense train group (ST,AMC,AML,AMR,MC), 5 people, they are in the attack train group I didn't change them (unless I specifically mentioned a change in the table) because the default assignment is this
Flashedmind said: Having analysed this post and related posts and discussions on training schedules, I think I agree with one of ZaZ's comments that you can use the physical attribute maximisation schedule in the youth team and then use the D6 schedule for the first team.
The most interesting finding to me is that you can "cheat" a player's CA-PA ratio if you have the time for it. The schedules show that you can increase a player's CA by around 5-6 per year, all of these points distributed across paca-acc-jump (e.g +2 in each). The main advantage is that you retain the player's PA, because you don't "waste" it on other, less important attributes (which is sad but true in current engine). If you do this from ages 15-18, you can add +6 to pace-acc-jump which is a lot, and then shift towards the schedules that focus on CA growth when the player goes to first team.
Practical example: let's say player has 80 CA and 150 PA, which means that 70 CA can still be attributed in development. If you use the D6 schedule, the player will grow 25 CA per year, of which 5 goes into pace-acc-jump and 20 into other attributes. This means that after 3 years the player will have reached their potential and the distribution of attributes will be on a ratio 1/4 physical/other.
For the same example, if you use the physical attribute maximising schedule, after 3 years the player will have gone from 70 CA to around 85 CA with all increases in attributes in pace-acc-jump (around +5 each). The difference is that the player still has a lot of their potential to be fulfilled, and then you can switch to the D6 schedule once the desired physical attributes are reached. The 85 CA player still has 65 CA to fill in, meaning that another 2-3 years of using D6 schedule can be used to maximise CA growth whilst still developing the physicals.
If you use the physical schedule for 5 years, the player should have around +10 in pace-acc-jump and then have 40 CA left to distribute across mental/technicals, which is still a lot if you can pick the attributes to be developed.
In other words, if you have the time, you can finetune a player's development by first allowing their physicals to be developed greatly and then shifting to other attributes whilst not neglecting physicals.
Im aware that overall, playing matches is most important and that the player's hidden attributes are a decisive factor. I'm also well aware that a lot more discussions can be had on this matter and that further finetuning of these findings is necessary (e.g. the impact of coaching staff, the negative impact on team cohesion or tactical familiarity of the schedules).
Thoughts? Expand
It's a good arrangement,No problem (If you only care about the maximum CA boost)
and D6 , I think the D6 requires too much training and increases the risk of injury, and I think the Y6 or B7 is better. and If you don't go for the ultimate CA boost, then K5 is already good (only needs 3 times train per week )
ZaZ said: I think the mistake is to think the other seventeen attributes of the table are useless, and only three are important at all. If you pick the attributes isolated, then you are probably right. By the table, pace, acceleration, jumping reach, and dribbling, are by far the most important. However, each of those other attributes have some small influence, and when combined they seem to make quite a difference. Dribbling alone increases expected points by almost 10, while balance, concentration, and anticipation increases almost 5 expected points each. Then you have all other attributes that increase by 1 or 3, and it is important to remember that those tests are not definitive, and only considered 2.4k matches each.
What I mean is you are focusing on the three attributes that are possibly responsible for 50%-60% of the performance of players, and ignoring the other seventeen that might just form the remaining 40-50%. It would be awesome if you were creating players with 20 in pace, acceleration, jumping, and dribbling, to then complete training for their other attributes, but by the table you showed, most the players were barely 17 in each. That is nothing impressive, and you can easily achieve that by hiring some quick youngsters with 13 or 14 starting pace and acceleration, without the need to sacrifice dribbling and other skills.
Again, you can win all championships with players at 70% of maximum performance, since most players in the game might be using only 50%-60% (because of low speed). However, you can do even better with players at 80%-100% of performance. Expand
You might have a point, I am a new player and have only played fm2024 300 hours, not play any before fm2024. I'm actually complaining that the mechanics that game companies design are so irrational that the game mechanics are like a placebo. It made me feel some extreme emotions.I thought, how can players protest and force game companies to change in next fm2025
I'm doing a related test about "If stats are 10, increase to 15, mental and technical effects are poor," then "if stats are 10, decrease to 1, then mental and technical effects are still low?"
What I get for now is that , there are some mental and technical attributes,
1.Even if they go down to 1, the effect on Average goal difference is small, if already have 10, increase it to 20, and the effect is still low.
2.For others, if they go down to 1 and have a high impact. But if already have 10, increase it to 20, and the effect is low.
19/11/2024 update I ended my busy state,I have time to come to the forum I updated the table to add about 15-20 new combinations
If you only want the maximum increase in CA, And with minimal risk of injury
You might consider using Y6, [Quickness]+[Attacking]+[Defending]+[Overall]+[Match Practice]x2 It needs 6 actions , Much less risk of injury than C6 and D6
The training schedule I use is [Quickness]+[Match Practice]x2+[Overall]+[Addtional Focus Quickness]+[Double Intensity], which is in the L5 group in the table.
In 28 sets of data of 28 man The 28 attacking midfielders (left/right) in Group A selected "Invert Winger (support)" in Position/Role/Duty The 28 attacking midfielders (left/right) in Group B selected "Wide Target Forward (support)" in Position/Role/Duty
"Invert Winger (support)" and "Wide Target Forward (support)" have the same and different highlighting properties. In my tests, I focused on their "unique" highlighting properties. For example, only "Invert Winger (support)" has "Passing" highlighted, while only "Wide Target Forward (support)" has "Heading" highlighted
result All "Invert Winger (support)" unique attributes, compare to "Wide Target Forward (support)" , Just (on average) 3% more on "unique" highlighting All "Wide Target Forward (support)" unique attributes, compare to "Invert Winger (support)" , Just (on average) 3% more on "unique" highlighting
In other words: Under this test condition, the use of Position/Role/Duty resulted in a 6% difference in attribute assignment
Since my test conditions used [Addtional Focus Quickness]+[Double Intensity], this has probably taken away some of the assigned weight, so I guess the original difference is probably > 6%
So: if you need a striker to have more pace and dribbling, don't pick a "Poacher" but a "Advanced forward". Image: Unable to upload due to unknow problem with my VPN
* Recently I have been very busy with my daily affairs. I didn't have time to read any replies or private messages. If you would like to have more test results under "different preconditions", you can try it yourself, if there are any new results please share
Han106 said: Can you train 2 groups on one team by sending Attacker group on one day vacation and having Defender group train. And on a different day Defender group vacation for one day and attacker group train. Expand
I think the game is not allowed to do this ? Button not found
1. The biggest influence on a player's sale price is the player's reputation. A player's reputation grows by winning prestigious tournaments and championships. Second is the quality of the players.
That said, if you can keep winning, you won't run out of people who can sell high prices.
2. How do I keep winning? One is the tactical need to match the current version of the game. On the other hand, the "Pace, acceleration, Jump" is higher.
3. I was beginning to think that the technical and mental attributes might be a bit useful after all,
but as I broke out with almost no technical and mental attributes ,with at high "Pace, acceleration, Jump"(about 17-18) players, only averaged 90 CA , won all the Premier League , win Champions League, won all the awards
I have changed and now I think that in developing players, I should not use training to pull technical and mental at all.
4. It means that I don't need the money that comes from increased ability, I can sell it on reputation, I don't need money on ability. The value of the only ability of technical and mental to hold CA high has also depreciated.
5. In a real game, not likely to run into a lot of 200PA highly professional people.
It could be 100CA, 150PA. More generally, 50CA, 100PA players
6. For example, 100CA ,150PA training add 25 CA in a season, 4 of 25 are "Pace, acceleration, Jump". after 2-3 season , add 50 CA , 8 of 25 are "Pace, acceleration, Jump".
This depleted PA, only 8 useful "Pace, acceleration, Jump", the other 42 points of growth may even be worth only 1-2 "Pace, acceleration, Jump"
7. 100CA ,150PA "sleep training", add 5 CA in a season, 5 of 5 are "Pace, acceleration, Jump". At the end of the first quarter, PA - CA is 45, training is still very fast, the combat effectiveness at any point in time is > Previous training
more combat effectiveness let you get more victory. And winning is all that matters.
8. Then the question becomes, How to get a bunch of young people who still have potential,
Put them through sleep training, for getting Pace ,acceleration *（about 16-18 is able to get Very good results in top level competitions）
Even they can start with a very, very low CA, such as 20-40 CA, and then 80-100 pa is enough
but the initial Pace and acceleration should be high, the initial should have a 12-14 Pace , 12-14 acceleration, so that it will not practice too slow,
Do not need genius, such relatively ordinary players are easy to find. , and they are cheap to employ
9. Put them all on the main team and train together , "sleep training" Depending on the randomness of the training, some people will increase their speed by 3 or even 4 per quarter, and some will only increase by 1 or 2.
This is a breeding ground, Wait for the person who has grow to 16-18 Pace acceleration , and you can take it out for the match.
10.
In this cycle,
I completely abandoned the "superfluous" training of mental and technical attributes,
But benefited from the game's "junk mechanics,"
To keep winning, Constantly acquiring valuable, prestigious players to sell
I don't even need any "talented young people," just normal players, even "Lack of potential third-tier players"
I also don't have to sift through people who are professional enough, as long as the breeding number is large enough , there will always be a large number of people who grow their Pace and Acceleration , even though their Mental and technical attributes are almost absent
ZaZ said: If your goal is to create fast young players, why not add this just to youth teams instead, and bring them up to main team when they are fast enough? Then they can have a normal training schedule to boost other attributes on main team.
Other than that, it is absurd to assume you will have a bunch of 200 PA players with high professionalism, even for people that play with hidden attributes visible. If it took two years with players like that, it will take double of that in a realistic setting.
Training players in multiple positions will increase the weight of their attributes, making them reach PA at a lower lever of performance. I don't know the details, but it probably gets the highest weight of all proficient positions, scaled by their proficiency in that position. You can easily verify that on Editor, just add 20 to another position like Winger or Striker, and CA usually goes up. That is why I only train players in the opposite side of same position, like AML - AMR and DR - DL. Expand
My main point is that injuries are low at "double intensity. I'm not taking a 200PA, highly Professional example to be deliberately effective
Here's what I think about your point: In my hypothesis, I assumed that "Pace, Acceleration, Jumping reach" was the only useful attribute, Other attributes, > No.6 in the list, have a very, very low effect.
If on my team, Player A trains very, very slowly. Let's assuming his redistribution rate is zero. So my training doesn't really have anything to do with them They can have the same training
If on my team, Player B trains fast. Then my training is actually training them. I put A and B on the same team and let them play and train normally. no need to separate them.
B Using a training method similar to "total rest", assuming an increase in Pace of 3 and CA of 3, Compared to the "fastest increase in CA" training method, assuming an increase in Pace of 3 and CA of 23,
They are exactly the same in combat effectiveness. Because only this "3 Pace" is valid. the "20" is "useless". Of course, this is an ideal assumption, and the value of "23-3=20" will also have a small effect.
If I don't want to sell players, Just want to achieve maximum combat effectiveness That "fastest increase in CA" training is pointless
If I want to sell players, that's another story.
Since my topic is only "the mechanics of training" and "How to get the most combat power", So, in this case, don't take into account what is actually done for profit in the game
(I'm not talking about how players "should play," if you know what I mean, I'm saying, "If I'm in a perfectly ideal situation, and the only goal here is to get the player to the maximum combat effectiveness."
and if the translator has a problem with the translation, I actually meant no offense . )
And by that logic, going forward, If I don't want to sell players, Just want to achieve maximum combat effectiveness
The "full rest" training method "takes up" a very small amount of CA,
This means that the player's (PA-CA)= difference value The difference value will remain at a high value for a long time
A player can (relatively) get the most ability for multiple seasons, whether he is a high PA person or a low PA person high professional or low professional .
Going back to the beginning, I'm going to take the view that (you might think I'm wrong, I'm just basing this on https://fm-arena.com/table/26-player-attributes-testing/) boosting other attributes on main team is basically meaningless adding I don't care about the money that this increased CA brings in
Han106 said: @harvestgreen22 Have you been tracking the growth of all attributes for each schedule? If there is, is there a way to see this data? Expand
@harvestgreen22 Not easy to test, but in theory with how little sessions it takes to redistribute, can you just use vacation days to train certain player groups on certain days. Like Monday can be Attacker day and Wednesday can be Defender Day. Expand
In my translator, this passage is translate to a meaningless sentence I don't quite understand what that means
(requested by reply and private message) I couldn't send a picture in a private message, so send it here
In addition , all my injuries in two seasons gaming (this sample size is small, not necessarily the full story , but at least give a blurry general indication) Two season I participated in all match, won 9 championships. Due to few training programs, injuries were very rare,
and only had 1 serious injury 11 medium injury 15 small injury
IlPadreMogens said: So which schedule would you recommend, if i just want boost the physical attributes the first season and then the most (overall) in second season and onwards.
would it be possible only to take a specific group of players and have them boost physicals? (i am not that experienced in training, never used it really) or would it be better to put regens/group of players you will evolve and put them on u21/u23 and have the train on your schedules? Expand
——So which schedule would you recommend, if i just want boost the physical attributes the first season and then the most (overall) in second season and onwards.
first season （Rest）no training+[Addtional Focus Quickness]+[Double Intensity]
second season and onwards [Quickness]+[Match Practice]x2+[Addtional Focus Quickness]+[Double Intensity]
——would it be possible only to take a specific group of players and have them boost physicals?
the only way is to put them to U20/U18/U21/U23 team , (This is ok, but you need additional operations, and it is more cumbersome to operate) Then, on the duties page, Then, on the duties page, Change U20/U18 training to be controlled by you It's the only way I know
by using your recommended training schedules, will my players loose any team related progression like cohesion, tactic knowledge and so?
also in some saves you would properly also have a mixed team with old and young players, would i still be able to use the plan A and plan B steps in order to first achieve the meta attributes and the afterwards (when happy with meta results) then use plan B to evole mental and other less important attributes?
maybe i missed in this thread, but could you give me example on the two training schedule for plan a (season 1) where evolving meta and then training schedule for plan B (evolving less important attributes?
and what would be the loss in using the above training schedule? the only down side is maxing CA on some players before plan B can be used right?
best regards and keep up the good work Expand
One more note:
Even if the player is "fully practiced" For example, he has 150CA, he has 150PA, Training can also do a slow "attribute reallocation" on him.
Of course, this speed (150CA,150PA) is much slower, Compared to, say, 50CA, 150PA, there's a big difference between them (150-50=100)
*I don't know if this makes it clear, because the translator might lose or mistranslate some meaning
by using your recommended training schedules, will my players loose any team related progression like cohesion, tactic knowledge and so?
also in some saves you would properly also have a mixed team with old and young players, would i still be able to use the plan A and plan B steps in order to first achieve the meta attributes and the afterwards (when happy with meta results) then use plan B to evole mental and other less important attributes?
maybe i missed in this thread, but could you give me example on the two training schedule for plan a (season 1) where evolving meta and then training schedule for plan B (evolving less important attributes?
and what would be the loss in using the above training schedule? the only down side is maxing CA on some players before plan B can be used right?
best regards and keep up the good work Expand
——lso in some saves you would properly also have a mixed team with old and young players, would i still be able to use the plan A and plan B steps in order to first achieve the meta attributes and the afterwards
Yes you can. You can combine freely,
For example
Add (Pa+Ac+Ju)↑ first servel season , Then increase the total CA rapidly Or start by rapidly increasing total CA first, Then select Add (Pa+Ac+Ju)↑
Because: When your CA is low, far from the maximum PA, for example, your player is 60CA, but he has 160 PA At this point, his acquired attributes will be much larger.
When your CA is high, close to the maximum PA, let's say your player is 140CA, but he has 160 PA At this point, his attributes will be much smaller.
So your training strategy, when the difference between CA and the maximum PA is large, will work faster What strategy do you adopt, depending on your needs, for example, you need someone to quickly form a "fighting force" in the team, that faster to improve the CA
There's no "right answer," just go with what you like
for someone like me for example, im in the premier league and champions league and my training schedule thing is very tight and i try to do the quickness, match practice x2, and then an overall (with all players at quickness additional).
but its hard for me to fit them in and i know you said in a comment that you recommend no training at all but i cant help to thing that my players wouldnt be good enought anymore and their stats would downgrade to a point where i would start to go down in the league.
sorry if this is a long comment but i would just like to know what training setup you would recommend me!
and btw i have rougly 2 matches a week, maybe more and if you want any pictures of my schedule i would gladly send some!
EDIT: also like i said my schedule is very tight so i put the trainings in between the games and i have started to get ALOT of injuries. is there a better way to train the players with the same training schedule?
Looking back, I realize that some of the comments I made later may have been too extreme (my view at the time was that only attributes like speed, burst, and bounce mattered, All other attributes are not important)
One of the bigger tests I'm doing : About "whether these properties are useful"
It may take some time for me to solve this problem in the new post form (haven't completed the test yet).
——and For the weeks have 0 matches a week
if you're not going for "extreme speed" then, on the chart,
if
(Pa+Ac+Ju) is high
Per man CA is also high
The training is good,
For example, any of the following is recommended
[Quickness]+[Match Practice]x2+[Addtional Focus Quickness]+[Double Intensity]
[Quickness]+[Match Practice]x2+[Overall]+[Addtional Focus Quickness]+[Double Intensity]
[Quickness]+[Attacking]+[Defending]+[Overall]+[Match Practice]x2+[Addtional Focus Quickness]+[Double Intensity]
[Quickness]+[Attacking]+[Defending]+[Overall]+[play from the back]+[Match Practice]x2+[Addtional Focus Quickness]+[Double Intensity]
They are all quality training, arguably twice as effective as the training arranged by the "AI assistant", and have fewer injuries.
Of course you have to pay attention to "Sharpness" and things like that,
like, Before the season started, Supplement it with friendly match or occasional training sessions
——and For the weeks have 2-3 matches a week
All rest , no train
I personally think that with this matching schedule, it is more important to reduce injuries
——and For the weeks have 1 matches a week
If you're worried about injuries, you can cut on schedule,
For example,
[Quickness]+[Match Practice]x2+[Overall]
Reduce to
[Quickness]+[Match Practice]+[Overall]
Or
[Quickness]+[Match Practice]
I have a question. If you stipulate 2x Match Practice is that the same if you have 1 or 2 matches that week? For example the team has a mid week game and a Saturday, would you still add in 2 match practices?
Thank you.
——2x Match Practice is that the same if you have 1 or 2 matches that week
Not the same
match Practice is a "training". and it also participate in the CA distribution.
While "friendly Match" and "Formal Match" are both "Match,"
It does not participate in the distribution,
but it can Increase the total number of CA you can get ,
You can see this by comparing the values of participation in 0,10,20,30 Match in the table
"friendly Match" Is a "very inferior" Formal Match, so players can't get the same effect by only playing a lot of "friendly Match"
——would you still add in 2 match practices?
Most of the time I don't do it , For fewer injuries
What happens if you abuse copy/paste training and do something like this with additional focus quickness? What would the CA grow up to?
CA growth has a "ceiling"
You can see in the table that for players who played 30 games, 20 years old (all the players I tested were 20 years old),
Professional 20.
The upper limit is 25.5
Even though I added a very large amount of training, like 12 to 15 times a week in some of the training, he didn't break that limit,
to unlock more caps , Play more matches
Would you mind testing how a single session of set-piece and/or team bonding would affect the results, especially with the lighter sessions like Y6? I'd imagine something like that could be the best of both worlds in terms of development, match fitness and other benefits. But it could also be quite detrimental to the player developement.
I'm busy with another test, and if I finish it and I still have time I'll test the one you mentioned
I'm testing something new right now, and when it's done, I'll post the test images
There's probably a schedule where its double intensity: Quick+match practisex2+ 1xattack+defense + maybe something else per week. Attacking and defending training max out efficiency at 4 but it's not really focused, you can just run 1 per week to stop the attribute decay.
The biggest problem I see with the data collected on CA/PA growth is:
1. Its simply counting CA growth per season but doesn't correctly discount how much decision cost in CA which inflate a players CA without meaningfully improve a players ability (I could be wrong since I didn't see the weighting, same thing with aggression which is a negative stat)
2. A lot of the technical training/attacking/defending training yeilded 0 growth for attacking unit or defensive unit. Is it because the tester have not moved players into the unit that's being focused trained? That skew the efficiency toward the training that train outfield players as a whole.
There is a part of English, after translation, I can not understand, sorry
Here's how I arrange the players:
(DCL,DCR,DL,DR,DM), 5 people, they are in the defense train group
(ST,AMC,AML,AMR,MC), 5 people, they are in the attack train group
I didn't change them (unless I specifically mentioned a change in the table) because the default assignment is this
The most interesting finding to me is that you can "cheat" a player's CA-PA ratio if you have the time for it. The schedules show that you can increase a player's CA by around 5-6 per year, all of these points distributed across paca-acc-jump (e.g +2 in each). The main advantage is that you retain the player's PA, because you don't "waste" it on other, less important attributes (which is sad but true in current engine). If you do this from ages 15-18, you can add +6 to pace-acc-jump which is a lot, and then shift towards the schedules that focus on CA growth when the player goes to first team.
Practical example: let's say player has 80 CA and 150 PA, which means that 70 CA can still be attributed in development. If you use the D6 schedule, the player will grow 25 CA per year, of which 5 goes into pace-acc-jump and 20 into other attributes. This means that after 3 years the player will have reached their potential and the distribution of attributes will be on a ratio 1/4 physical/other.
For the same example, if you use the physical attribute maximising schedule, after 3 years the player will have gone from 70 CA to around 85 CA with all increases in attributes in pace-acc-jump (around +5 each). The difference is that the player still has a lot of their potential to be fulfilled, and then you can switch to the D6 schedule once the desired physical attributes are reached. The 85 CA player still has 65 CA to fill in, meaning that another 2-3 years of using D6 schedule can be used to maximise CA growth whilst still developing the physicals.
If you use the physical schedule for 5 years, the player should have around +10 in pace-acc-jump and then have 40 CA left to distribute across mental/technicals, which is still a lot if you can pick the attributes to be developed.
In other words, if you have the time, you can finetune a player's development by first allowing their physicals to be developed greatly and then shifting to other attributes whilst not neglecting physicals.
Im aware that overall, playing matches is most important and that the player's hidden attributes are a decisive factor. I'm also well aware that a lot more discussions can be had on this matter and that further finetuning of these findings is necessary (e.g. the impact of coaching staff, the negative impact on team cohesion or tactical familiarity of the schedules).
Thoughts?
It's a good arrangement,No problem (If you only care about the maximum CA boost)
and D6 , I think the D6 requires too much training and increases the risk of injury, and I think the Y6 or B7 is better.
and If you don't go for the ultimate CA boost, then K5 is already good (only needs 3 times train per week )
What I mean is you are focusing on the three attributes that are possibly responsible for 50%-60% of the performance of players, and ignoring the other seventeen that might just form the remaining 40-50%. It would be awesome if you were creating players with 20 in pace, acceleration, jumping, and dribbling, to then complete training for their other attributes, but by the table you showed, most the players were barely 17 in each. That is nothing impressive, and you can easily achieve that by hiring some quick youngsters with 13 or 14 starting pace and acceleration, without the need to sacrifice dribbling and other skills.
Again, you can win all championships with players at 70% of maximum performance, since most players in the game might be using only 50%-60% (because of low speed). However, you can do even better with players at 80%-100% of performance.
You might have a point, I am a new player and have only played fm2024 300 hours, not play any before fm2024. I'm actually complaining that the mechanics that game companies design are so irrational that the game mechanics are like a placebo. It made me feel some extreme emotions.I thought, how can players protest and force game companies to change in next fm2025
I'm doing a related test about
"If stats are 10, increase to 15, mental and technical effects are poor,"
then
"if stats are 10, decrease to 1, then mental and technical effects are still low?"
What I get for now is that , there are some mental and technical attributes,
1.Even if they go down to 1, the effect on Average goal difference is small,
if already have 10, increase it to 20, and the effect is still low.
2.For others, if they go down to 1 and have a high impact.
But if already have 10, increase it to 20, and the effect is low.
3.The others, I only tested a few
I ended my busy state,I have time to come to the forum
I updated the table to add about 15-20 new combinations
If you only want the maximum increase in CA,
And with minimal risk of injury
You might consider using Y6,
[Quickness]+[Attacking]+[Defending]+[Overall]+[Match Practice]x2
It needs 6 actions , Much less risk of injury than C6 and D6
which is in the L5 group in the table.
In 28 sets of data of 28 man
The 28 attacking midfielders (left/right) in Group A selected "Invert Winger (support)" in Position/Role/Duty
The 28 attacking midfielders (left/right) in Group B selected "Wide Target Forward (support)" in Position/Role/Duty
"Invert Winger (support)" and "Wide Target Forward (support)" have the same and different highlighting properties.
In my tests, I focused on their "unique" highlighting properties.
For example, only "Invert Winger (support)" has "Passing" highlighted,
while only "Wide Target Forward (support)" has "Heading" highlighted
result
All "Invert Winger (support)" unique attributes, compare to "Wide Target Forward (support)" ,
Just (on average) 3% more on "unique" highlighting
All "Wide Target Forward (support)" unique attributes, compare to "Invert Winger (support)" ,
Just (on average) 3% more on "unique" highlighting
In other words:
Under this test condition, the use of Position/Role/Duty resulted in a 6% difference in attribute assignment
Since my test conditions used [Addtional Focus Quickness]+[Double Intensity], this has probably taken away some of the assigned weight, so I guess the original difference is probably > 6%
So:
if you need a striker to have more pace and dribbling, don't pick a "Poacher" but a "Advanced forward".
Image: Unable to upload due to unknow problem with my VPN
* Recently I have been very busy with my daily affairs. I didn't have time to read any replies or private messages.
If you would like to have more test results under "different preconditions", you can try it yourself, if there are any new results please share
@harvestgreen22 I don't see a spreadsheet to click on, just pictures so I can't access player--development--Progress--Attributes
Seems to only able to look at pictures, Then manually record
I think the game is not allowed to do this ? Button not found
1.
The biggest influence on a player's sale price is the player's reputation. A player's reputation grows by winning prestigious tournaments and championships. Second is the quality of the players.
That said, if you can keep winning, you won't run out of people who can sell high prices.
2.
How do I keep winning? One is the tactical need to match the current version of the game. On the other hand, the "Pace, acceleration, Jump" is higher.
3.
I was beginning to think that the technical and mental attributes might be a bit useful after all,
but as I broke out with almost no technical and mental attributes ,with at high "Pace, acceleration, Jump"(about 17-18) players, only averaged 90 CA ,
won all the Premier League , win Champions League, won all the awards
I have changed and now I think that in developing players, I should not use training to pull technical and mental at all.
4.
It means that I don't need the money that comes from increased ability,
I can sell it on reputation,
I don't need money on ability.
The value of the only ability of technical and mental to hold CA high has also depreciated.
5.
In a real game, not likely to run into a lot of 200PA highly professional people.
It could be 100CA, 150PA.
More generally, 50CA, 100PA players
6.
For example, 100CA ,150PA
training add 25 CA in a season, 4 of 25 are "Pace, acceleration, Jump".
after 2-3 season , add 50 CA , 8 of 25 are "Pace, acceleration, Jump".
This depleted PA, only 8 useful "Pace, acceleration, Jump", the other 42 points of growth may even be worth only 1-2 "Pace, acceleration, Jump"
7.
100CA ,150PA
"sleep training", add 5 CA in a season, 5 of 5 are "Pace, acceleration, Jump".
At the end of the first quarter, PA - CA is 45,
training is still very fast,
the combat effectiveness at any point in time is > Previous training
more combat effectiveness let you get more victory.
And winning is all that matters.
8.
Then the question becomes,
How to get a bunch of young people who still have potential,
Put them through sleep training, for getting Pace ,acceleration
*（about 16-18 is able to get Very good results in top level competitions）
Even they can start with a very, very low CA, such as 20-40 CA, and then 80-100 pa is enough
but the initial Pace and acceleration should be high,
the initial should have a 12-14 Pace , 12-14 acceleration,
so that it will not practice too slow,
Do not need genius, such relatively ordinary players are easy to find. , and they are cheap to employ
9.
Put them all on the main team and train together , "sleep training"
Depending on the randomness of the training, some people will increase their speed by 3 or even 4 per quarter, and some will only increase by 1 or 2.
This is a breeding ground,
Wait for the person who has grow to 16-18 Pace acceleration , and you can take it out for the match.
10.
In this cycle,
I completely abandoned the "superfluous" training of mental and technical attributes,
But benefited from the game's "junk mechanics,"
To keep winning,
Constantly acquiring valuable, prestigious players to sell
I don't even need any "talented young people," just normal players, even "Lack of potential third-tier players"
I also don't have to sift through people who are professional enough, as long as the breeding number is large enough , there will always be a large number of people who grow their Pace and Acceleration ,
even though their Mental and technical attributes are almost absent
Other than that, it is absurd to assume you will have a bunch of 200 PA players with high professionalism, even for people that play with hidden attributes visible. If it took two years with players like that, it will take double of that in a realistic setting.
Training players in multiple positions will increase the weight of their attributes, making them reach PA at a lower lever of performance. I don't know the details, but it probably gets the highest weight of all proficient positions, scaled by their proficiency in that position. You can easily verify that on Editor, just add 20 to another position like Winger or Striker, and CA usually goes up. That is why I only train players in the opposite side of same position, like AML - AMR and DR - DL.
My main point is that injuries are low at "double intensity.
I'm not taking a 200PA, highly Professional example to be deliberately effective
Here's what I think about your point:
In my hypothesis, I assumed that "Pace, Acceleration, Jumping reach" was the only useful attribute,
Other attributes, > No.6 in the list, have a very, very low effect.
If on my team,
Player A trains very, very slowly. Let's assuming his redistribution rate is zero.
So my training doesn't really have anything to do with them
They can have the same training
If on my team,
Player B trains fast.
Then my training is actually training them.
I put A and B on the same team and let them play and train normally. no need to separate them.
B Using a training method similar to "total rest", assuming an increase in Pace of 3 and CA of 3,
Compared to the "fastest increase in CA" training method, assuming an increase in Pace of 3 and CA of 23,
They are exactly the same in combat effectiveness. Because only this "3 Pace" is valid. the "20" is "useless".
Of course, this is an ideal assumption, and the value of "23-3=20" will also have a small effect.
If I don't want to sell players,
Just want to achieve maximum combat effectiveness
That "fastest increase in CA" training is pointless
If I want to sell players, that's another story.
Since my topic is only "the mechanics of training" and "How to get the most combat power",
So, in this case, don't take into account what is actually done for profit in the game
(I'm not talking about how players "should play,"
if you know what I mean,
I'm saying,
"If I'm in a perfectly ideal situation, and the only goal here is to get the player to the maximum combat effectiveness."
and if the translator has a problem with the translation, I actually meant no offense .
)
And by that logic, going forward,
If I don't want to sell players,
Just want to achieve maximum combat effectiveness
The "full rest" training method "takes up" a very small amount of CA,
This means that
the player's (PA-CA)= difference value
The difference value will remain at a high value for a long time
A player can (relatively) get the most ability for multiple seasons,
whether he is a high PA person or a low PA person
high professional or low professional .
Going back to the beginning, I'm going to take the view that
(you might think I'm wrong, I'm just basing this on https://fm-arena.com/table/26-player-attributes-testing/)
boosting other attributes on main team is basically meaningless
adding I don't care about the money that this increased CA brings in
Click player--development--Progress--Attributes
@harvestgreen22 Not easy to test, but in theory with how little sessions it takes to redistribute, can you just use vacation days to train certain player groups on certain days. Like Monday can be Attacker day and Wednesday can be Defender Day.
In my translator, this passage is translate to a meaningless sentence
I don't quite understand what that means
Added several test combinations
(requested by reply and private message)
I couldn't send a picture in a private message, so send it here
In addition , all my injuries in two seasons gaming
(this sample size is small, not necessarily the full story , but at least give a blurry general indication)
Two season I participated in all match, won 9 championships.
Due to few training programs, injuries were very rare,
and only had
1 serious injury
11 medium injury
15 small injury
would it be possible only to take a specific group of players and have them boost physicals? (i am not that experienced in training, never used it really) or would it be better to put regens/group of players you will evolve and put them on u21/u23 and have the train on your schedules?
——So which schedule would you recommend, if i just want boost the physical attributes the first season and then the most (overall) in second season and onwards.
first season
（Rest）no training+[Addtional Focus Quickness]+[Double Intensity]
second season and onwards
[Quickness]+[Match Practice]x2+[Addtional Focus Quickness]+[Double Intensity]
——would it be possible only to take a specific group of players and have them boost physicals?
the only way is to put them to U20/U18/U21/U23 team , (This is ok, but you need additional operations, and it is more cumbersome to operate)
Then, on the duties page, Then, on the duties page, Change U20/U18 training to be controlled by you
It's the only way I know
Just want to appreciate your work/research.
Can you help me clarify something:
by using your recommended training schedules, will my players loose any team related progression like cohesion, tactic knowledge and so?
also in some saves you would properly also have a mixed team with old and young players, would i still be able to use the plan A and plan B steps in order to first achieve the meta attributes and the afterwards (when happy with meta results) then use plan B to evole mental and other less important attributes?
maybe i missed in this thread, but could you give me example on the two training schedule for plan a (season 1) where evolving meta and then training schedule for plan B (evolving less important attributes?
and what would be the loss in using the above training schedule? the only down side is maxing CA on some players before plan B can be used right?
best regards and keep up the good work
One more note:
Even if the player is "fully practiced"
For example, he has 150CA, he has 150PA,
Training can also do a slow "attribute reallocation" on him.
Of course, this speed (150CA,150PA) is much slower,
Compared to, say, 50CA, 150PA, there's a big difference between them (150-50=100)
*I don't know if this makes it clear, because the translator might lose or mistranslate some meaning
Just want to appreciate your work/research.
Can you help me clarify something:
by using your recommended training schedules, will my players loose any team related progression like cohesion, tactic knowledge and so?
also in some saves you would properly also have a mixed team with old and young players, would i still be able to use the plan A and plan B steps in order to first achieve the meta attributes and the afterwards (when happy with meta results) then use plan B to evole mental and other less important attributes?
maybe i missed in this thread, but could you give me example on the two training schedule for plan a (season 1) where evolving meta and then training schedule for plan B (evolving less important attributes?
and what would be the loss in using the above training schedule? the only down side is maxing CA on some players before plan B can be used right?
best regards and keep up the good work
——lso in some saves you would properly also have a mixed team with old and young players, would i still be able to use the plan A and plan B steps in order to first achieve the meta attributes and the afterwards
Yes you can.
You can combine freely,
For example
Add (Pa+Ac+Ju)↑ first servel season , Then increase the total CA rapidly
Or start by rapidly increasing total CA first, Then select Add (Pa+Ac+Ju)↑
Because: When your CA is low, far from the maximum PA, for example, your player is 60CA, but he has 160 PA
At this point, his acquired attributes will be much larger.
When your CA is high, close to the maximum PA, let's say your player is 140CA, but he has 160 PA
At this point, his attributes will be much smaller.
So your training strategy, when the difference between CA and the maximum PA is large, will work faster
What strategy do you adopt, depending on your needs, for example, you need someone to quickly form a "fighting force" in the team, that faster to improve the CA
There's no "right answer," just go with what you like