Gerrard said: 2nd season syndrome A poor season start could be just down to RNG, or a result of over confidence etc. I have tested over multiple seasons and could not reproduce a major dip in results in 2nd season. Expand
Idk why this happens like this, but feels like when you actually playing, changing players, etc it somehow affect morale or rep or something else, no idea, but i feel like i never can get a BETTER season on a same tactic in 2nd season so i have to change some Maybe raw test with Assistant Coach on holiday cant get it uh
CBP87 said: Again I disagree, I have had no issues with my long term saves using strikerless tactics. 2nd season syndrome hasn't happened for me this year, in fact, I'm finding that my 2nd season is better than the 1st but I'll put that down to recruitment Expand
Might be because of tactic familiarity or something, idk But all these last meta things dont work for me no clue why
CBP87 said: As previously stated, you are able to upload tactics, the testing isn't limited to certain people. Do you not think people have tried different styles or different shapes? Expand
I do uploads tho, but imma slow cuz did this on my main long term save, will probably try some fast small db tests as zaz mentioned for myself first
Also somewhat it doesnt work good in long saves somehow, or its something on my end no clue Heard about 2nd and next seasons issue, but didnt find any researches on it
CBP87 said: People testing the strikerless with the 1-2 changes are trying to push the ME as much as possible, trying to figure out what works, what combinations work, what PIs work. For me, with testing, I am trying to figure out what combinations work and don't work. The average score isn't 84.5, that's the top score and by testing new PIs etc.. we can hopefully push that score a little bit more.
I understand the frustration with the retesting but there are loads of other shapes on here that can be found quite easily using the filters or specific tables Expand
Pretty much every last 3430 got that 84.5 Ik there's different versions can be easily found But the topic is about diversity in latest retests Idk why no one tries to get the top scoring possesion based tactic for example and so on
Whats the point of getting those 343's tested if we alr know that its meta lmao
Yarema said: If you open the tactics table and sort out by release date there are maybe half of tactics with current meta shape. The rest are different. But yes you won't see them at the top of points table because they simply don't work as well.
Filter them by formation you want to play and browse through a few until you find roles and instructions you like. Expand
The subject is not that there's NO different shapes There is But almost 90% of latest tactics are pretty much same with 1-2 diff PI's etc
Another year at PSG Solid pos and results, not trying to recreate something specific but nice technical play and lots of goals 2-4-4 in attack slowly drifting to 2-2-6 mainly Did some changes in away matches and some experiments so result not clear tho
apple said: Anyone else having problems with a ridiculous amount of penalties? Expand
Get stuck in with high players Aggression adn Dirtiness wil llead to penalties and redcards Just look scout reports about your defenders or use scouting tools
ZaZ said: People are free to test what they want. You can filter tactics by four defenders if you do not like three at the back, and there is even a table for plug and play tactics. People test tactics with different shapes every day. What you will not see are tactics with all shapes in the top of the table, but you can find plenty with lower scores, and even a few with very good scores. Expand
Just open up tactics and theres 90% of em is absolutely same shapes and main team instructions Only diff is PI but the result is almost same everywhere with 84.5 avg pts lmao
ZaZ said: With all due respect, people can only test two tactics per day, and it is only natural that they will focus in their main interests and what they find more promising. Gerrard has tested plenty of different shapes, roles and instructions. It is a bit rude to ask people to tailor their tests to your preferences. It is not hard to submit your own tactic for testing, it takes less than 30 minutes to run a season in holiday mode to collect the screenshots you need. Expand
Fair enough maybe But whats the best settings for this fast tests if u dont mind?
Also aint asking for a test, but asked if its already tested and there's some advices on roles
Tried to make something more possesion oriented from your FM26 HIGHWAY STAR 26.3 4231 LP P103 and without MPM in a middle even with a bit lower tempo and sligltly short passes cant hold the ball Just curious if u made some roles investigation
Gerrard said: You can submit your own tactic with the roles you want to test. TBH I've probably tested all roles available, but not all do that well on my own tests, so not worth subitting. Expand
Im more a player than a tester, thats why i asked if you already did some tests
GeorgeFloydOverdosed said: The reason I picked Le Fondre to include is because I saw him compared in a Youtube video, and even though he's a 36-year-old with 9 pace/acc, he managed the results you see here. A takeaway from this for me is that pace/acc isn't strictly necessary. Using the comparative deduction I mentioned before, I found that anticipation and composure are more critical than pace/acc.. as I said, these are strange conclusions, so rather than make the facts fit the theory, I'm going to be getting the facts straight first and then seeing what theory fits the data. Expand
Also, strange thing i've faced Everyone here says about acc/pace, but for me rn the most scoring person in my team is 33 y.o. Florian Wirtz, with almost destroyed physical attributes And he's not just scoring, he also nake key passes, assists and having the best average rating in a league And yeah there's also Haaland in my team (even older, but Haaland is a Haaland right) He's pacey then wirtz and physically better, have same dribbling, better finishing etc, but scores equal or less
GeorgeFloydOverdosed said: Although I don't agree with the reasoning given as critique of my weightings, I do believe the underlying idea that the precise rankings may be somewhat impaired.
I attempted to address this with weighting the weights, but it produced worse results, or at least no better.
I've tried comparative deduction by comparing several players match ratings & goal tallies with their attributes. Some key problems with this approach:
- Match ratings have been demonstrated to favor presence of technical/mental ability over actual wins - Goals scored can simply reflect finishing, and poor finishing has minimal effect on the team win rate (it simply means someone else with higher finishing in the team scores the goals) - I actually managed to get the players to 'line up' with the ratings/goals a lot better, but it took a very strange set of GS weightings to get there. Either I'm on the wrong track, or even if it's right, I would be building a house without being able to know the foundations.
I concluded that what's actually needed is more result-based data, but on individual players. It's more tedious, and will require a fair amount of samples for good accuracy, but I think it's the best approach.
Method
I use my meta team at Man City, but replace a position with duplicates of a particular player. If I'm testing ST, I remove proficiency in other positions so as not to mess up the results, as what I'm most interested in is deducing what constitutes the precise ranking of STs. Full detail is used for all first team competitions.
Results
Here's some data I've collected so far (ranked by team performance with player as ST):
The reason I picked Le Fondre to include is because I saw him compared in a Youtube video, and even though he's a 36-year-old with 9 pace/acc, he managed the results you see here. A takeaway from this for me is that pace/acc isn't strictly necessary. Using the comparative deduction I mentioned before, I found that anticipation and composure are more critical than pace/acc.. as I said, these are strange conclusions, so rather than make the facts fit the theory, I'm going to be getting the facts straight first and then seeing what theory fits the data.
I'll probably do about 5-6 samples each of ~10 players for ST and then see if I can deduce consistent patterns to create accurate weightings. Expand
Incredible how you keep trying to prove your point to someone who cant read lmao
Gerrard said: If you wish to try different tactics then these are aailable RECOMMENDED STRIKER TACTICS BASED ON SCORE AND OPTIONS
SET PIECES MU 19
HIGHWAY STAR 26.3 4231 P112 ALL CUPS
HIGHWAY STAR 26.3 4231 P103
HIGHWAY STAR 26.3 FR 4231 P106 FA CC
HIGHWAY STAR 26.2 4231 P107 EC FA
HIGHWAY STAR 26.2.3 4231 P108 EC FA
RAMBLE ON 26.3 41131 P107 ALL CUPS
STORMBRINGER 26.3 424 P107 EC FA
STORMBRINGER 26.2 424 P106 CC
HOLY GHOST FIRE 26.3 4141 P108 EC
SNOWBLIND 26.3 433 N P104 ALL CUPS
SOLDIER OF FORTUNE 26.3 4141 P110 FA CC
ARGUS 26.3 343 P107 EC CC
ARGUS 26.3 3421 P102 ALL CUPS
SPEED KING 26.3 451 P104 EC FA
WARRIOR 26.3 442 P104 EC FA
WARPIGS 26.3 4312 N P104 ALL CUPS
PHOENIX 26.3 4213 N P104 EC CC
TEQUILA SUNRISE 26.3 4132 P103 ALL CUPS
ARGUS 26.3 352 P104 ALL CUPS
ARGUS 26.2.3 352 P110 EC CC CP78
ARGUS 26.2.3 352 P110 EC CC CP78
BATTLE OF EVERMORE 26.3 4222N P104 EC CC
TEN YEARS GONE 26.3 23221 P104 FA CC
ARGUS 26.3 FR 3421 N P103 ALL CUPS
TEN YEARS GONE 26.3 4231 P100 ALL CUPS
HIGHWAY STAR 26.3 BBP 4231 P105 C
HIGHWAY STAR 26.3 BBM 4231 P103 EC CC
ARGUS 26.2.3 3412 P103 EC FA
ELECTRIC FUNERAL 26.2.3 4231 P103 EC FA 56%
ELECTRIC FUNERAL FR 26.3 4231 P104 EC 56%
ARGUS 26.3 3331 P106 EC
ARGUS 26.2.3 3331 P102 EC CC
TEN YEARS GONE 26.3 41212 ND P104 EC CC
KASHMIR 26.3 4123 P105 FA
BATTLE OF EVERMORE 26.3 4222N P104 EC CC
MAD AS A HATTER 26.3 4132 P102 EC CC
SLOE GIN 26.3 442 DM P105 FA CC
SLOE GIN 26.2 442 DM P102 EC
GALLOWS POLE 26.3 4321 DLF P102 FA CC
MISTREATED 26.3 41131 WFD P107 FA
HEARTBREAKER 26.3 451 P103 EC
HEARTBREAKER 26.2 451 P105
ELECTRIC FUNERAL 26.3 4231 P103 FA 56%
ELECTRIC FUNERAL FR 26.3 4231 P104 EC 56%
ELECTRIC FUNERAL 26.2.3 4231 A P104 EC CC 56%
HIGHWAY STAR 26.2.3 4231N P101 ALL CUPS
PERFECT STRANGERS 26.3 42112 P100 ALL CUPS
BAD SPELL 26.3 41212 ND P102 FA CC
ELECTRIC FUNERAL 26.3 4231 P102 CC
STORMBRINGER Counter Attack 26.3 424 P101 EC
TEN YEARS GONE 26.3 4231 DM P99 FA
PILGRIMAGE 26.2.3 4231 P100 CC 62% PILGRIMAGE 26.2.3 41212 ND P102 ALL CUPS 58% NO LOSS
PILGRIMAGE 26.3 3430 P100 EC CC 62%
ELECTRIC FUNERAL 26.2.3 451 A P99EC101 EC 56%
WARRIOR 26.2 442 TARGET FORWARD POACHER P97 FA
PILGRIMAGE 26.3 451 P95 EC 62% Expand
I know all of your tactics huh I've just shared some ideas for future tests, cuz never seen a tactic with somewhat except CHM or AP from ypu in this 343 formation
ZaZ said: Not much point in changing anything now, since it would not be a surprise if tests halted when they announce FM27. It should be released in a couple of months from now, if they follow the pattern of previous years (except cancelled FM25). Expand
The point is to find something new and interesting which also works There's no point to post same tatcis with 1-2 diff instruction which actually makes zero diff huh
Defo looks like formation and player roles more important then anything else, cuz basic tactic instructions with different shapes work not that great So interesting if you can test with some other shapes and roles too For example woth WF's on flanks Or AM/MPM's in mid etc
Holiday tested
60% Possesion and pretty serious amount of goals
A poor season start could be just down to RNG, or a result of over confidence etc.
I have tested over multiple seasons and could not reproduce a major dip in results in 2nd season.
Idk why this happens like this, but feels like when you actually playing, changing players, etc it somehow affect morale or rep or something else, no idea, but i feel like i never can get a BETTER season on a same tactic in 2nd season so i have to change some
Maybe raw test with Assistant Coach on holiday cant get it uh
Might be because of tactic familiarity or something, idk
But all these last meta things dont work for me no clue why
CBP87 said: As previously stated, you are able to upload tactics, the testing isn't limited to certain people. Do you not think people have tried different styles or different shapes?
I do uploads tho, but imma slow cuz did this on my main long term save, will probably try some fast small db tests as zaz mentioned for myself first
Heard about 2nd and next seasons issue, but didnt find any researches on it
I understand the frustration with the retesting but there are loads of other shapes on here that can be found quite easily using the filters or specific tables
Pretty much every last 3430 got that 84.5
Ik there's different versions can be easily found
But the topic is about diversity in latest retests
Idk why no one tries to get the top scoring possesion based tactic for example and so on
Whats the point of getting those 343's tested if we alr know that its meta lmao
Interesting concept
Filter them by formation you want to play and browse through a few until you find roles and instructions you like.
The subject is not that there's NO different shapes
There is
But almost 90% of latest tactics are pretty much same with 1-2 diff PI's etc
Solid pos and results, not trying to recreate something specific but nice technical play and lots of goals
2-4-4 in attack slowly drifting to 2-2-6 mainly
Did some changes in away matches and some experiments so result not clear tho
Get stuck in with high players Aggression adn Dirtiness wil llead to penalties and redcards
Just look scout reports about your defenders or use scouting tools
Oh thanks, didnt see that one
But cant find anywhere a link for this
Just open up tactics and theres 90% of em is absolutely same shapes and main team instructions
Only diff is PI but the result is almost same everywhere with 84.5 avg pts lmao
Fair enough maybe
But whats the best settings for this fast tests if u dont mind?
Also aint asking for a test, but asked if its already tested and there's some advices on roles
Nevermind
My question about variety of roles
Just curious if u made some roles investigation
Im more a player than a tester, thats why i asked if you already did some tests
Gerrard said: This 3430 uses CM
https://fm-arena.com/thread/19969-argus-26-3-3430-cm-p107-ac/
or AP rather than AM
https://fm-arena.com/thread/19836-argus-26-3-ap-3430-p104-ec-fa/
Nice one, but have you tried MPM's or two AP's? Or WF's on flanks?
Somehow for me, but in more possesion based tactic CHM performs bad
Also, strange thing i've faced
Everyone here says about acc/pace, but for me rn the most scoring person in my team is 33 y.o. Florian Wirtz, with almost destroyed physical attributes
And he's not just scoring, he also nake key passes, assists and having the best average rating in a league
And yeah there's also Haaland in my team (even older, but Haaland is a Haaland right)
He's pacey then wirtz and physically better, have same dribbling, better finishing etc, but scores equal or less
I attempted to address this with weighting the weights, but it produced worse results, or at least no better.
I've tried comparative deduction by comparing several players match ratings & goal tallies with their attributes. Some key problems with this approach:
- Match ratings have been demonstrated to favor presence of technical/mental ability over actual wins
- Goals scored can simply reflect finishing, and poor finishing has minimal effect on the team win rate (it simply means someone else with higher finishing in the team scores the goals)
- I actually managed to get the players to 'line up' with the ratings/goals a lot better, but it took a very strange set of GS weightings to get there. Either I'm on the wrong track, or even if it's right, I would be building a house without being able to know the foundations.
I concluded that what's actually needed is more result-based data, but on individual players. It's more tedious, and will require a fair amount of samples for good accuracy, but I think it's the best approach.
Method
I use my meta team at Man City, but replace a position with duplicates of a particular player. If I'm testing ST, I remove proficiency in other positions so as not to mess up the results, as what I'm most interested in is deducing what constitutes the precise ranking of STs. Full detail is used for all first team competitions.
Results
Here's some data I've collected so far (ranked by team performance with player as ST):
Erling Haaland 👍 - 1st, 1st, 4th = 2nd position, 1.263 goals/match, 7.93 rating
Kylian Mbappe 💩 - 5th, 1st, 3rd = 3rd position, 0.708 goals/match, 7.54 rating
Daizen Maeda - 2nd, 3rd, 4th = 3rd position, 0.533 goals/match, 7.28 rating
Harry Kane - 5th, 2nd = 3.5th position, 0.429 goals/match, 7.25 rating
Victor Osimhen - 3rd, 3rd, 7th = 4.333th position, 0.699 goals/match, 7.27 rating
Adam Le Fondre - 8th, 11th (sacked), 5th = 8th position, 0.416 goals/match, 6.82 rating
The reason I picked Le Fondre to include is because I saw him compared in a Youtube video, and even though he's a 36-year-old with 9 pace/acc, he managed the results you see here. A takeaway from this for me is that pace/acc isn't strictly necessary. Using the comparative deduction I mentioned before, I found that anticipation and composure are more critical than pace/acc.. as I said, these are strange conclusions, so rather than make the facts fit the theory, I'm going to be getting the facts straight first and then seeing what theory fits the data.
I'll probably do about 5-6 samples each of ~10 players for ST and then see if I can deduce consistent patterns to create accurate weightings.
Incredible how you keep trying to prove your point to someone who cant read lmao
RECOMMENDED STRIKER TACTICS BASED ON SCORE AND OPTIONS
SET PIECES MU 19
HIGHWAY STAR 26.3 4231 P112 ALL CUPS
HIGHWAY STAR 26.3 4231 P103
HIGHWAY STAR 26.3 FR 4231 P106 FA CC
HIGHWAY STAR 26.2 4231 P107 EC FA
HIGHWAY STAR 26.2.3 4231 P108 EC FA
RAMBLE ON 26.3 41131 P107 ALL CUPS
STORMBRINGER 26.3 424 P107 EC FA
STORMBRINGER 26.2 424 P106 CC
HOLY GHOST FIRE 26.3 4141 P108 EC
SNOWBLIND 26.3 433 N P104 ALL CUPS
SOLDIER OF FORTUNE 26.3 4141 P110 FA CC
ARGUS 26.3 343 P107 EC CC
ARGUS 26.3 3421 P102 ALL CUPS
SPEED KING 26.3 451 P104 EC FA
WARRIOR 26.3 442 P104 EC FA
WARPIGS 26.3 4312 N P104 ALL CUPS
PHOENIX 26.3 4213 N P104 EC CC
TEQUILA SUNRISE 26.3 4132 P103 ALL CUPS
ARGUS 26.3 352 P104 ALL CUPS
ARGUS 26.2.3 352 P110 EC CC CP78
ARGUS 26.2.3 352 P110 EC CC CP78
BATTLE OF EVERMORE 26.3 4222N P104 EC CC
TEN YEARS GONE 26.3 23221 P104 FA CC
ARGUS 26.3 FR 3421 N P103 ALL CUPS
TEN YEARS GONE 26.3 4231 P100 ALL CUPS
HIGHWAY STAR 26.3 BBP 4231 P105 C
HIGHWAY STAR 26.3 BBM 4231 P103 EC CC
ARGUS 26.2.3 3412 P103 EC FA
ELECTRIC FUNERAL 26.2.3 4231 P103 EC FA 56%
ELECTRIC FUNERAL FR 26.3 4231 P104 EC 56%
ARGUS 26.3 3331 P106 EC
ARGUS 26.2.3 3331 P102 EC CC
TEN YEARS GONE 26.3 41212 ND P104 EC CC
KASHMIR 26.3 4123 P105 FA
BATTLE OF EVERMORE 26.3 4222N P104 EC CC
MAD AS A HATTER 26.3 4132 P102 EC CC
SLOE GIN 26.3 442 DM P105 FA CC
SLOE GIN 26.2 442 DM P102 EC
GALLOWS POLE 26.3 4321 DLF P102 FA CC
MISTREATED 26.3 41131 WFD P107 FA
HEARTBREAKER 26.3 451 P103 EC
HEARTBREAKER 26.2 451 P105
ELECTRIC FUNERAL 26.3 4231 P103 FA 56%
ELECTRIC FUNERAL FR 26.3 4231 P104 EC 56%
ELECTRIC FUNERAL 26.2.3 4231 A P104 EC CC 56%
HIGHWAY STAR 26.2.3 4231N P101 ALL CUPS
PERFECT STRANGERS 26.3 42112 P100 ALL CUPS
BAD SPELL 26.3 41212 ND P102 FA CC
ELECTRIC FUNERAL 26.3 4231 P102 CC
STORMBRINGER Counter Attack 26.3 424 P101 EC
TEN YEARS GONE 26.3 4231 DM P99 FA
PILGRIMAGE 26.2.3 4231 P100 CC 62%
PILGRIMAGE 26.2.3 41212 ND P102 ALL CUPS 58% NO LOSS
PILGRIMAGE 26.3 3430 P100 EC CC 62%
ELECTRIC FUNERAL 26.2.3 451 A P99EC101 EC 56%
WARRIOR 26.2 442 TARGET FORWARD POACHER P97 FA
PILGRIMAGE 26.3 451 P95 EC 62%
I know all of your tactics huh
I've just shared some ideas for future tests, cuz never seen a tactic with somewhat except CHM or AP from ypu in this 343 formation
The point is to find something new and interesting which also works
There's no point to post same tatcis with 1-2 diff instruction which actually makes zero diff huh
So interesting if you can test with some other shapes and roles too
For example woth WF's on flanks
Or AM/MPM's in mid etc