Mind blowing findings Thank you for taking the time out to share this here.
Needless to say this is even more evidence that the more you dig deep under the hood with this game the more you discover it is all just about cosmetics on top and its name that is carrying it. All its systems and mechanics are beyond broken and seem to have little logical thought.
What's the thinking behind using AMCs against IWBs (central against central) and vice versa for Wingers and FBs, my first instinct is that the opposite makes sense actually I would love to know more about the theory behind this? thanks
Telespiza said: I took the three 59 point attributes uploaded so far, changed the number to 1 and played a holiday season with Manchester City. I used @Blau's https://fm-arena.com/thread/7174-cameron-4-2-3-1-bal/. While most players finished the season without injury, the average player rating has definitely dropped. Probably because the stats have been reduced so much, the players have become weaker, but I still managed to get a score of 87. So unless there's a special patch, I don't think I should worry too much about these stats. Thanks for testing! Expand
It's interesting that the player rating is affected but not the final team results. Sounds like bad design to me
ZaZ said: I usually add a column for fatigue in the squad view, but most people don't care much about it, because fatigue is an obscure feature of FM. Expand
True. Though I personally think a lot of features are obsecure in FM especially when it comes to match performance. Fatigue is just another one I started considering it heavily in my rotation after FM-Arena's condition and morale tests. I think these player parameters even when increased by a little bit affect our results a lot more than we think
ZaZ said: I don't blame the guy, because my results were supposed to be just an extra to his video, and the main focus was about home advantage.
I'm now checking the influence of fatigue in performance, and I am surprised about how much it affects points per match. Keep in mind that fatigue goes from -500 to 1000, and you only see "Rst" when the hidden value is at 601+, so it is not uncommon for lots of people to play a good part of the season with high fatigue without knowing, which hinders their performance in late season. Expand
You can see whether the players are "low" or "fresh" if you add the fatigue column. However I still suspect there are degrees to "fresh" (for example from 1000 to 600) which also make a difference to the results and there is no way to know them without an external tool or the in game editor. Similar to condition
Great work and sound discoveries backed by evidence and a lot of trials. I think Max should have mentioned the neutral and home venue trials conducted that you showed here Zaz would have added even more certainty and credibility.
whocares said: Is that skin supposed to show the percentages? Because I'm using it and I don't see percentages. This is a clean install of the game as I just got it through Amazon Prime promotion. All I've done is started a new game and loaded Vince skin.
How do I get the heart and thumb icons to be replaced by the percentages? Expand
Try to follow this. It's in italian but just follow what he does and you should have it, I remember I followed the instructions several times and had to reload the game for it to work the first time so this is not straightforward unfortunately, FM for some reason really doesn't want to make this easy but I hope this helps!
Gracolas said: Thank you, but i love the skin im using right now (Kojuro), so im not interested in changing skins right now.. i just want to change Kojuro's skin to be able to see % Expand
Yarema said: Those styles aren't equal IRL either. I have absolutely no issue with route one scoring badly for example. It's actually not a problem of the preset tactic, rather that the whole concept doesn't work well in the engine.
To me point of the game is to experiment a bit what works. Not sure when people became so afraid of it. Nowadays everyone wants optimal build and guide from the first minute they start the game, any game. You can enter FM with certain preferences, maybe you like 433, maybe 5221... try stuff out, see what works yourself - for example that gegenpress just plain performs better than anything else, that faster players generally perform better and so on. Once you actually know exactly what works best the game is fairly simple and you need additional challenges on top to make it challenging. Expand
I think that just sounds good. Even if you spent 10 thousand hours plus on the game never would you be able to figure out that the fastest players are so OP and some attributes almost don't matter without the brute force testing of FM-Arena.
Also saying that the point of the game is to "experiment" is very much your taste, I don't know about the majority of the players, but I know many like me who enjoy it more being like a puzzle and solving tactical problems on an almost game by game basis making the most of your players attributes etc. But this is not possible without knowing exactly what the machanics do and when half the mechanics don't do anything and the only things that seem to really work are gengenpress related like high press etc.
For example in real life it can easily be argued that a "weaker" team should sit in a mid block or low block but in FM it barely works, you will actually concede much fewer goals playing a high press with 3 DMs for example like some top tactics here
Yarema said: Honestly if you pick a preset gegenpress and change a couple of roles, add proper corner routine you have a pretty good tactic on your hands. Much better than what most people create themselves.
Yes some styles are bad, those could be better. Some roles used are also far from optimal. And well default set piece is terrible although much more realistic in terms of numbers to real life.
I think the preset tactics are a decent starting point to use and tweak. Obviously they keep it simple and don't "exploit" the engine like the ones tested here. Expand
You said the problem yourself though. *IF* you happen to pick gegenpress preset with the right formation you got a semi-good tactic, but there are many other presets and not everyone is a gegenpress fan. Why are the other styles presets so goddamn awful? What's the point of them if they are that bad? They don't teach you anything about roles duties and instructions (many of which are cosmetic to begin with) they just mislead you. You are much better off coming here and looking at top tactics to see what actually "works" in the game
@Middleweight165 It depends on what level you are recruiting for. For a top side in a top 5 league? It's probably not good enough. Otherwise it depends.
In general I also don't like looking at an attribute for a player in isolation when deciding whether he is good enough or not. For example if he is 11 JR but maybe pacy with good anticipation then he's definitely worth it
Jumping Reach is the only thing you should look at (along with maybe strength) if you are interested in how many aerial duels they would win.
Basically Jumping Reach has height calculated already within it, you will usually find that tall players will always have high reach as a virture of their height, however a "short" player could still have high reach, so yeah height is irrelevant in the engine itself
White Europe said: Who would you buy? Player 1, all highlighted attributes for CD position 15, pace and acceleration 12 Player 2, all highlighted attributes for CD position 12, pace and acceleration 15? Expand
from my own recent experience based on what Zippo has been telling us I have been winning the premier league with a player like Fagan-Walcott who is 17 17 speed but less than 100CA. Go look at his stats on FM Inside! I won the league with him and Danso in my defence in my first season with Leeds. I believe player 2 unfortunately is the better option by a country mile.
We all like to apply football common sense to this like "positioning allows him to be slower" but it's clear from the constant brute force tests that the game is designed poorly to reflect football common sense and these speed attributes are game breaking
Football Manager needs a serious competitor in the exact same football management simulation genre, one that also has players names rights and attributes. That's the only thing that might force SI to actually try to improve the core game
Needless to say this is even more evidence that the more you dig deep under the hood with this game the more you discover it is all just about cosmetics on top and its name that is carrying it. All its systems and mechanics are beyond broken and seem to have little logical thought.
It's interesting that the player rating is affected but not the final team results. Sounds like bad design to me
It's insane honestly, something as foundational in football as "passing" has almost ZERO effect in the match engine
cool so it's the other way around
True. Though I personally think a lot of features are obsecure in FM especially when it comes to match performance. Fatigue is just another one
I started considering it heavily in my rotation after FM-Arena's condition and morale tests. I think these player parameters even when increased by a little bit affect our results a lot more than we think
I'm now checking the influence of fatigue in performance, and I am surprised about how much it affects points per match. Keep in mind that fatigue goes from -500 to 1000, and you only see "Rst" when the hidden value is at 601+, so it is not uncommon for lots of people to play a good part of the season with high fatigue without knowing, which hinders their performance in late season.
You can see whether the players are "low" or "fresh" if you add the fatigue column. However I still suspect there are degrees to "fresh" (for example from 1000 to 600) which also make a difference to the results and there is no way to know them without an external tool or the in game editor. Similar to condition
Well done to both of you!
This is a clean install of the game as I just got it through Amazon Prime promotion. All I've done is started a new game and loaded Vince skin.
How do I get the heart and thumb icons to be replaced by the percentages?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSHy1OtVxzY&t=400s[/youtube]
Try to follow this. It's in italian but just follow what he does and you should have it, I remember I followed the instructions several times and had to reload the game for it to work the first time so this is not straightforward unfortunately, FM for some reason really doesn't want to make this easy but I hope this helps!
https://community.sigames.com/forums/topic/558231-fm22-physical-condition-in-percentage-mod/
Read "lugui" reply about changing an existing skin to add the %.
Alternatively, use a skin that uses it. I use Vince's skin
This might start a war 😆
To me point of the game is to experiment a bit what works. Not sure when people became so afraid of it. Nowadays everyone wants optimal build and guide from the first minute they start the game, any game.
You can enter FM with certain preferences, maybe you like 433, maybe 5221... try stuff out, see what works yourself - for example that gegenpress just plain performs better than anything else, that faster players generally perform better and so on. Once you actually know exactly what works best the game is fairly simple and you need additional challenges on top to make it challenging.
I think that just sounds good. Even if you spent 10 thousand hours plus on the game never would you be able to figure out that the fastest players are so OP and some attributes almost don't matter without the brute force testing of FM-Arena.
Also saying that the point of the game is to "experiment" is very much your taste, I don't know about the majority of the players, but I know many like me who enjoy it more being like a puzzle and solving tactical problems on an almost game by game basis making the most of your players attributes etc. But this is not possible without knowing exactly what the machanics do and when half the mechanics don't do anything and the only things that seem to really work are gengenpress related like high press etc.
For example in real life it can easily be argued that a "weaker" team should sit in a mid block or low block but in FM it barely works, you will actually concede much fewer goals playing a high press with 3 DMs for example like some top tactics here
Yes some styles are bad, those could be better. Some roles used are also far from optimal. And well default set piece is terrible although much more realistic in terms of numbers to real life.
I think the preset tactics are a decent starting point to use and tweak. Obviously they keep it simple and don't "exploit" the engine like the ones tested here.
You said the problem yourself though. *IF* you happen to pick gegenpress preset with the right formation you got a semi-good tactic, but there are many other presets and not everyone is a gegenpress fan. Why are the other styles presets so goddamn awful? What's the point of them if they are that bad? They don't teach you anything about roles duties and instructions (many of which are cosmetic to begin with) they just mislead you. You are much better off coming here and looking at top tactics to see what actually "works" in the game
In general I also don't like looking at an attribute for a player in isolation when deciding whether he is good enough or not. For example if he is 11 JR but maybe pacy with good anticipation then he's definitely worth it
Jumping Reach is the only thing you should look at (along with maybe strength) if you are interested in how many aerial duels they would win.
Basically Jumping Reach has height calculated already within it, you will usually find that tall players will always have high reach as a virture of their height, however a "short" player could still have high reach, so yeah height is irrelevant in the engine itself
Yup
Unfortunately it seems this is the right way to achieve great things in FM
Player 1, all highlighted attributes for CD position 15, pace and acceleration 12
Player 2, all highlighted attributes for CD position 12, pace and acceleration 15?
from my own recent experience based on what Zippo has been telling us I have been winning the premier league with a player like Fagan-Walcott who is 17 17 speed but less than 100CA.
Go look at his stats on FM Inside! I won the league with him and Danso in my defence in my first season with Leeds.
I believe player 2 unfortunately is the better option by a country mile.
We all like to apply football common sense to this like "positioning allows him to be slower" but it's clear from the constant brute force tests that the game is designed poorly to reflect football common sense and these speed attributes are game breaking