wixta79 said: what sort of player is better in the SS role? ive tried converted strikers, or is it better to use AMC's? Expand
As long as the player is at least accomplished in the position, use the fastest you have. If you want to retrain someone, the best in my opinion are MC, because they have lower weights to speed attributes which allow them to get higher attributes overall. DM are also good for this purpose. However, that only makes a difference when they reach maximum potential, so don't worry much about it.
Firstly, congratulations on the tactic. It clearly is working so well for others and the results I see are amazing.
I'm having some mixed results with it to be honest. I will add that I'm in the Croatian league with no money - so no Messi or Salah for me!. So I'm aware nothing will come easy for my team. I do consistently win the league now, but have hit a brick wall and no matter what better quality players I bring in, I cannot make that jump into being a European contender.
Even with a reasonable squad, I'm not dominating games in my league. Winning yes, but despite shouts and team talks and rotation, the games are quite laboured. The real frustration I'm having is with the wide players - and to be fair. this tactic is not alone in this. Not matter how quick, or good at dribbling, they seem hell bent in running into dead ends. True, they win corner after corner, but very rarely do they deliver anything in the game. I've tried removing 'cross from byline' but it doesn't seem to make a difference. Is this something in FM21? I last played on FM19 and wingers seemed much more effective there, easily getting double figures in goals and assists. Is anyone else having this frustration? When the highlight goes to the flank, I know there is a 90% chance nothing will happen apart from getting a corner. I should add, this isn't a complaint and I can see from the thread what a good tactic this is. It just seems to be missing a 'spark' and I wonder if it is the wing play that makes me most frustrated. I'm thinking about ditching my wingers for good!
I would try red instead of blue... it's practically the same tactic but it removes a lot of instructions that cause more mediocre players to be careless with the ball.
Also I personally add Attacking Movement, Defensive Shape, Teamwork, and Attacking Corners for match prep for as many matches as possible. I prioritize them in that order.
Europe is damn hard in FM21 IMO. There's a lot of luck involved. Being drawn away in the first leg is a big bonus.
pgsonline said: Firstly, congratulations on the tactic. It clearly is working so well for others and the results I see are amazing.
I'm having some mixed results with it to be honest. I will add that I'm in the Croatian league with no money - so no Messi or Salah for me!. So I'm aware nothing will come easy for my team. I do consistently win the league now, but have hit a brick wall and no matter what better quality players I bring in, I cannot make that jump into being a European contender.
Even with a reasonable squad, I'm not dominating games in my league. Winning yes, but despite shouts and team talks and rotation, the games are quite laboured. The real frustration I'm having is with the wide players - and to be fair. this tactic is not alone in this. Not matter how quick, or good at dribbling, they seem hell bent in running into dead ends. True, they win corner after corner, but very rarely do they deliver anything in the game. I've tried removing 'cross from byline' but it doesn't seem to make a difference. Is this something in FM21? I last played on FM19 and wingers seemed much more effective there, easily getting double figures in goals and assists. Is anyone else having this frustration? When the highlight goes to the flank, I know there is a 90% chance nothing will happen apart from getting a corner. I should add, this isn't a complaint and I can see from the thread what a good tactic this is. It just seems to be missing a 'spark' and I wonder if it is the wing play that makes me most frustrated. I'm thinking about ditching my wingers for good!
pgsonline said: Firstly, congratulations on the tactic. It clearly is working so well for others and the results I see are amazing.
I'm having some mixed results with it to be honest. I will add that I'm in the Croatian league with no money - so no Messi or Salah for me!. So I'm aware nothing will come easy for my team. I do consistently win the league now, but have hit a brick wall and no matter what better quality players I bring in, I cannot make that jump into being a European contender.
Even with a reasonable squad, I'm not dominating games in my league. Winning yes, but despite shouts and team talks and rotation, the games are quite laboured. The real frustration I'm having is with the wide players - and to be fair. this tactic is not alone in this. Not matter how quick, or good at dribbling, they seem hell bent in running into dead ends. True, they win corner after corner, but very rarely do they deliver anything in the game. I've tried removing 'cross from byline' but it doesn't seem to make a difference. Is this something in FM21? I last played on FM19 and wingers seemed much more effective there, easily getting double figures in goals and assists. Is anyone else having this frustration? When the highlight goes to the flank, I know there is a 90% chance nothing will happen apart from getting a corner. I should add, this isn't a complaint and I can see from the thread what a good tactic this is. It just seems to be missing a 'spark' and I wonder if it is the wing play that makes me most frustrated. I'm thinking about ditching my wingers for good!
Any tips? Expand
I currently have a save where I play team from country with alphabets order ( Algeria, Bulgaria, Belgium, ...). And I haven't struggling a lots like you describe. Also It depends on the team you managing, like you managing a team with media prediction 12th then when the season end, you end up like 7th to 6th is fine to me. Because your squad is weak and doesnt have that many players to rotate. If you can, just upload the save and let me see if I can do anything with that
pgsonline said: Firstly, congratulations on the tactic. It clearly is working so well for others and the results I see are amazing.
I'm having some mixed results with it to be honest. I will add that I'm in the Croatian league with no money - so no Messi or Salah for me!. So I'm aware nothing will come easy for my team. I do consistently win the league now, but have hit a brick wall and no matter what better quality players I bring in, I cannot make that jump into being a European contender.
Even with a reasonable squad, I'm not dominating games in my league. Winning yes, but despite shouts and team talks and rotation, the games are quite laboured. The real frustration I'm having is with the wide players - and to be fair. this tactic is not alone in this. Not matter how quick, or good at dribbling, they seem hell bent in running into dead ends. True, they win corner after corner, but very rarely do they deliver anything in the game. I've tried removing 'cross from byline' but it doesn't seem to make a difference. Is this something in FM21? I last played on FM19 and wingers seemed much more effective there, easily getting double figures in goals and assists. Is anyone else having this frustration? When the highlight goes to the flank, I know there is a 90% chance nothing will happen apart from getting a corner. I should add, this isn't a complaint and I can see from the thread what a good tactic this is. It just seems to be missing a 'spark' and I wonder if it is the wing play that makes me most frustrated. I'm thinking about ditching my wingers for good!
Any tips? Expand
I can't say much about why you are not able to challenge the european title, as it can be several reasons. Is your team fast, like everyone with pace and acceleration at least 14+?
About the wingers, it's like real life. Most of the times they don't manage to do anything. We just got spoiled to live in an era with Messi, Cristiano Ronaldo, Neymar and so many amazing forwards, but other than those very skilled players, most attacks usually get neutralized. With Blue you will get 20 or 30 good attacking opportunities in a match, but in real life, it's very common to end matches with less than 10.
What do you train guys usually? E.g. I have a forward retrained to SS with pace and acc 17. What should i train? Only attributes from that table or something else?
kireby said: What do you train guys usually? E.g. I have a forward retrained to SS with pace and acc 17. What should i train? Only attributes from that table or something else? Expand
Focusing the training on the most influencing attributes from the fm-arena table would be a good choice.
That was the tactic I was trying to achieve. I was tired of the unbalanced 4-3-3 options with players occupying the same space, specially in the wings. And even more tired of lone strikers being useless and lost amongst the opposition defenders (they only work properly for me if there's an AMC behind).
So far, I've managed to achieve some success with two @RDFTactics tactics (Bielsa's with Milan and Sacchi's with Arsenal), but that wasn't enough. I've tried some approaches based on the Strikerless guy ideas, but they didn't work. Then I tested this one in an unsuccessful save with Sampdoria and things just happened. I was going 4-3-3 and made my signings based on it, so I still don't have the players I need for the season. But it's working. I'm using mostly the Light Blue, playing more defensively, and got impressive results against Juventus (3-3 away, they scored from an IMPOSSIBLE free kick at 90+3), Milan 2-1, Roma 3-0, Lazio 3-0. I'm currently in 7th (had a bad start), but possibly will manage to get at least a place for Europa League.
The interchangeable movement of the players is great. Wingbacks switching from going inside/outside, the CM-at making late forward runs makes him my most dangerous player (now who's FMing here, huh). I have Onyeka (originally intended to be a B2B) and Jankto playing there. Onyeka is super fast, but lacks finishing. Still doing fine. Damsgaard and Gabbiadini are doing good as well as the SS.
As my SSs play near the midfield, I often ask them to man-mark the opposition CMs when playing a stronger side. And my wingers to mark their wing/fullbacks. This kills their chance creation possibilities. Also I removed the long throw-ins since it was causing more counters for the opposition than any good to my squad. I will need a player to suit the CM-at next season. Otávio from Porto was my main target, but he's not willing to join Samp now. He's quite a great player, I buy him every save. So I will need this Lothar Matthaus kind of guy, as it seems to be my main role.
pauloolivieri said: That was the tactic I was trying to achieve. I was tired of the unbalanced 4-3-3 options with players occupying the same space, specially in the wings. And even more tired of lone strikers being useless and lost amongst the opposition defenders (they only work properly for me if there's an AMC behind).
So far, I've managed to achieve some success with two @RDFTactics tactics (Bielsa's with Milan and Sacchi's with Arsenal), but that wasn't enough. I've tried some approaches based on the Strikerless guy ideas, but they didn't work. Then I tested this one in an unsuccessful save with Sampdoria and things just happened. I was going 4-3-3 and made my signings based on it, so I still don't have the players I need for the season. But it's working. I'm using mostly the Light Blue, playing more defensively, and got impressive results against Juventus (3-3 away, they scored from an IMPOSSIBLE free kick at 90+3), Milan 2-1, Roma 3-0, Lazio 3-0. I'm currently in 7th (had a bad start), but possibly will manage to get at least a place for Europa League.
The interchangeable movement of the players is great. Wingbacks switching from going inside/outside, the CM-at making late forward runs makes him my most dangerous player (now who's FMing here, huh). I have Onyeka (originally intended to be a B2B) and Jankto playing there. Onyeka is super fast, but lacks finishing. Still doing fine. Damsgaard and Gabbiadini are doing good as well as the SS.
As my SSs play near the midfield, I often ask them to man-mark the opposition CMs when playing a stronger side. And my wingers to mark their wing/fullbacks. This kills their chance creation possibilities. Also I removed the long throw-ins since it was causing more counters for the opposition than any good to my squad. I will need a player to suit the CM-at next season. Otávio from Porto was my main target, but he's not willing to join Samp now. He's quite a great player, I buy him every save. So I will need this Lothar Matthaus kind of guy, as it seems to be my main role.
Will come back for updates. Expand
Nice job there! I would just recommend Blue 3.0 with cautious mentality instead of Light Blue 3.0. Light version sacrifices win-rate to get less yellow cards and save some energy, it's supposed to be used when you want to hit the brakes thinking about future matches.
@ZaZ what do you think, which position is the most important/key positions for tactic? i have many players who can play all positions from attack, ok im sure that CM is very important but i dont know, my best player has better left foot and natural on ML and AMC, where he should play?
bula1899 said: @ZaZ what do you think, which position is the most important/key positions for tactic? i have many players who can play all positions from attack, ok im sure that CM is very important but i dont know, my best player has better left foot and natural on ML and AMC, where he should play? Expand
It depends on your squad. If you have enough good players in one position, put him in the other. If both positions are well supplied, then switch the worst player off. If you don't have any good player in either position, then play him as ML, because it's easier to find a good AMC than a good ML.
I make a lot of plots and stuff from the player stats, and from a sheer numbers perspective, the defensive wingers do the most work for me (caveat, I'm using red instead of blue). This is in terms of things like int/90, tkl/90, key passes/90, chances created/90, etc. The wingers stand way out in terms of their overall production in those kinds of stats. They just do a ton of work in both phases of play.
That said, pace at AMC/MC is very important. If I had a player who was my best winger but also my fastest player, I'd play him at AMC/CM first.
drhay53 said: I make a lot of plots and stuff from the player stats, and from a sheer numbers perspective, the defensive wingers do the most work for me (caveat, I'm using red instead of blue). This is in terms of things like int/90, tkl/90, key passes/90, chances created/90, etc. The wingers stand way out in terms of their overall production in those kinds of stats. They just do a ton of work in both phases of play.
That said, pace at AMC/MC is very important. If I had a player who was my best winger but also my fastest player, I'd play him at AMC/CM first. Expand
I have some stats of Blue 3.0 after one season in vacation mode. Columns are, in order: passes completed, pass attempts, mistakes leading to goals, distance covered per 90 minutes, dribbles made per game, pass attempts per 90 minutes, key passes per 90 minutes, chances created per 90 minutes, shots per 90 minutes, shots on target ratio, interceptions per 90 minutes, tackles per game, tackle completion ratio, aerial challenge attempts per 90 minutes, cross completed compared to crosses attempted, overall number of crosses attempted.
Here's a look at my club ~40 games into the season. I'm in 2033 in Ligue 1 with RC Lens.
I took the metrics from FM Stag I believe. The attacking metric is: (key passes / 90) + (chances created / 90) + (assists / 90) + (shots on target / 90) + (goals / 90) + (xG / 90) + (xG / shot)
the defensive metric is: (interceptions / 90) + (tackles / 90) + (headers won / 90) / 2
positions of the players: Abbate - DL/DR Balde - AMC Balikwisha - MC Benjelloun - AMC/ML/MR Correa - DC Cristiano - AMC/ML Cuzcueta - ML Damilola - MR/AMC Emeljanov - MR Gamba - MC/AMC Jesus - ML Jimenez - DL/DR Juan - DM Kozuchowski - DM/MC Lambert - DL Mashigo - DR/DL Demirel - DC Navio - DC Nina - DC Salvatori - DL Vandenbroeck - AMC Vera - MR Vranckx - DM
The red lines are the team average in the attacking/defensive metrics. Players in the upper right are above average in both attacking and defensive metrics. They're nearly all primarily ML/MR players. Also, I move around set pieces every match, and the ML/MR are not always my corner takers.
Players in the upper left are above average attacking and below average defending. They're usually the AMC/MC positions.
The lower left are below average defending and attacking. In this case it's my DM's and GK's (who should really be left off the plot but I'm too lazy to filter them out).
The lower right are above average defending and below average attacking. These are mostly the back 4.
I've been making this plot for a few seasons with the red version of this shape, and the distribution of players shown here is pretty universally what I've seen.
There's nothing all that surprising about where the positions end up but I use this type of thing to compare players against each other, i.e. Vandenbroeck is a world class player making $10 million/yr, whereas Damilola is 17 years old making $1 million / yr, and they're practically performing the same. Vandenbroeck plays tougher matches of course but he's really not playing as well as I think he should.
Here's a look at my club ~40 games into the season. I'm in 2033 in Ligue 1 with RC Lens.
I took the metrics from FM Stag I believe. The attacking metric is: (key passes / 90) + (chances created / 90) + (assists / 90) + (shots on target / 90) + (goals / 90) + (xG / 90) + (xG / shot)
the defensive metric is: (interceptions / 90) + (tackles / 90) + (headers won / 90) / 2
positions of the players: Abbate - DL/DR Balde - AMC Balikwisha - MC Benjelloun - AMC/ML/MR Correa - DC Cristiano - AMC/ML Cuzcueta - ML Damilola - MR/AMC Emeljanov - MR Gamba - MC/AMC Jesus - ML Jimenez - DL/DR Juan - DM Kozuchowski - DM/MC Lambert - DL Mashigo - DR/DL Demirel - DC Navio - DC Nina - DC Salvatori - DL Vandenbroeck - AMC Vera - MR Vranckx - DM
The red lines are the team average in the attacking/defensive metrics. Players in the upper right are above average in both attacking and defensive metrics. They're nearly all primarily ML/MR players. Also, I move around set pieces every match, and the ML/MR are not always my corner takers.
Players in the upper left are above average attacking and below average defending. They're usually the AMC/MC positions.
The lower left are below average defending and attacking. In this case it's my DM's and GK's (who should really be left off the plot but I'm too lazy to filter them out).
The lower right are above average defending and below average attacking. These are mostly the back 4.
I've been making this plot for a few seasons with the red version of this shape, and the distribution of players shown here is pretty universally what I've seen.
There's nothing all that surprising about where the positions end up but I use this type of thing to compare players against each other, i.e. Vandenbroeck is a world class player making $10 million/yr, whereas Damilola is 17 years old making $1 million / yr, and they're practically performing the same. Vandenbroeck plays tougher matches of course but he's really not playing as well as I think he should. Expand
Thanks for the graph, it is very nice. Too bad such thing is not part of the game itself. Some people were commenting here that wingers don't perform well, but I guess this data clearly shows the opposite.
wixta79 said: so do DW give you a better performance the wingers? Expand
They are very similar, but I believe DW are more consistent. It's like DW can go from 6-8 in performance while W-Su goes from 5-9. In both cases, the average is 7. (Hypothetical performance, not in game scores.)
ZaZ said: They are very similar, but I believe DW are more consistent. It's like DW can go from 6-8 in performance while W-Su goes from 5-9. In both cases, the average is 7. (Hypothetical performance, not in game scores.) Expand
Hey @ZaZ, can you create a new tactic with 2 AF ( with the same PI's like SS) ?. I just wanted to see which grade that tactic gonna get. I think It gonna be 7.0
ta2199 said: Hey @ZaZ, can you create a new tactic with 2 AF ( with the same PI's like SS) ?. I just wanted to see which grade that tactic gonna get. I think It gonna be 7.0 Expand
I don't think it will be much different from Fanatic, but running to post results.
ZaZ said: I don't think it will be much different from Fanatic, but running to post results. Expand
I think you need to make a new topic for it. It will be the best new ST tactic, maybe about 7.0 Cuz Phoenix was 7.0 and Fanatic is 6.8. So I think the same will apply to this AF tweak.
ZaZ said: I don't think it will be much different from Fanatic, but running to post results. Expand
I think this is important for long term saves. When taking over a club they usually a have top influential ST. It would be good to play first season with a ST, let him bang the goals in and sell him the next summer and move to the Strikerless formation
Middleweight165 said: I think this is important for long term saves. When taking over a club they usually a have top influential ST. It would be good to play first season with a ST, let him bang the goals in and sell him the next summer and move to the Strikerless formation Expand
I think you dont need to. Just play many friendly games before season start, setup trainning and let him play at the new position. Wouldn't take that long to make him comfortable at SS position.
ta2199 said: I think you dont need to. Just play many friendly games before season start, setup trainning and let him play at the new position. Wouldn't take that long to make him comfortable at SS position. Expand
Middleweight165 said: Even if he has no rating at AMC? Expand Fast striker having good finishing, passing and vision becomes a murderer at AMC. I usually set filter by positions so i buy either AMC or ST when i need SS
Sleipnirfossa said: Best tactic ever!
Hello skin ? And do you use training ?
what sort of player is better in the SS role? ive tried converted strikers, or is it better to use AMC's?
wixta79 said: what sort of player is better in the SS role? ive tried converted strikers, or is it better to use AMC's?
, he just took the most powerful attributes from the table above - https://fm-arena.com/thread/1463-some-guy-won-epl-with-1ca-squad-following-fm-arena-attributes-table/
It's all about the attributes.
If you're interested in knowing which attributes the most powerful then check this table - https://fm-arena.com/table/9-important-attributes/
Also, check the following thread... some guy won EPL with a team that consisted of 1CA players
wixta79 said: what sort of player is better in the SS role? ive tried converted strikers, or is it better to use AMC's?
As long as the player is at least accomplished in the position, use the fastest you have. If you want to retrain someone, the best in my opinion are MC, because they have lower weights to speed attributes which allow them to get higher attributes overall. DM are also good for this purpose. However, that only makes a difference when they reach maximum potential, so don't worry much about it.
Firstly, congratulations on the tactic. It clearly is working so well for others and the results I see are amazing.
I'm having some mixed results with it to be honest. I will add that I'm in the Croatian league with no money - so no Messi or Salah for me!. So I'm aware nothing will come easy for my team. I do consistently win the league now, but have hit a brick wall and no matter what better quality players I bring in, I cannot make that jump into being a European contender.
Even with a reasonable squad, I'm not dominating games in my league. Winning yes, but despite shouts and team talks and rotation, the games are quite laboured. The real frustration I'm having is with the wide players - and to be fair. this tactic is not alone in this. Not matter how quick, or good at dribbling, they seem hell bent in running into dead ends. True, they win corner after corner, but very rarely do they deliver anything in the game. I've tried removing 'cross from byline' but it doesn't seem to make a difference. Is this something in FM21? I last played on FM19 and wingers seemed much more effective there, easily getting double figures in goals and assists. Is anyone else having this frustration? When the highlight goes to the flank, I know there is a 90% chance nothing will happen apart from getting a corner. I should add, this isn't a complaint and I can see from the thread what a good tactic this is. It just seems to be missing a 'spark' and I wonder if it is the wing play that makes me most frustrated. I'm thinking about ditching my wingers for good!
Any tips?
I would try red instead of blue... it's practically the same tactic but it removes a lot of instructions that cause more mediocre players to be careless with the ball.
Also I personally add Attacking Movement, Defensive Shape, Teamwork, and Attacking Corners for match prep for as many matches as possible. I prioritize them in that order.
Europe is damn hard in FM21 IMO. There's a lot of luck involved. Being drawn away in the first leg is a big bonus.
pgsonline said: Firstly, congratulations on the tactic. It clearly is working so well for others and the results I see are amazing.
I'm having some mixed results with it to be honest. I will add that I'm in the Croatian league with no money - so no Messi or Salah for me!. So I'm aware nothing will come easy for my team. I do consistently win the league now, but have hit a brick wall and no matter what better quality players I bring in, I cannot make that jump into being a European contender.
Even with a reasonable squad, I'm not dominating games in my league. Winning yes, but despite shouts and team talks and rotation, the games are quite laboured. The real frustration I'm having is with the wide players - and to be fair. this tactic is not alone in this. Not matter how quick, or good at dribbling, they seem hell bent in running into dead ends. True, they win corner after corner, but very rarely do they deliver anything in the game. I've tried removing 'cross from byline' but it doesn't seem to make a difference. Is this something in FM21? I last played on FM19 and wingers seemed much more effective there, easily getting double figures in goals and assists. Is anyone else having this frustration? When the highlight goes to the flank, I know there is a 90% chance nothing will happen apart from getting a corner. I should add, this isn't a complaint and I can see from the thread what a good tactic this is. It just seems to be missing a 'spark' and I wonder if it is the wing play that makes me most frustrated. I'm thinking about ditching my wingers for good!
Any tips?
Check my answer at different thread, I think it'll be helpful - https://fm-arena.com/find-comment/6404/
pgsonline said: Firstly, congratulations on the tactic. It clearly is working so well for others and the results I see are amazing.
I'm having some mixed results with it to be honest. I will add that I'm in the Croatian league with no money - so no Messi or Salah for me!. So I'm aware nothing will come easy for my team. I do consistently win the league now, but have hit a brick wall and no matter what better quality players I bring in, I cannot make that jump into being a European contender.
Even with a reasonable squad, I'm not dominating games in my league. Winning yes, but despite shouts and team talks and rotation, the games are quite laboured. The real frustration I'm having is with the wide players - and to be fair. this tactic is not alone in this. Not matter how quick, or good at dribbling, they seem hell bent in running into dead ends. True, they win corner after corner, but very rarely do they deliver anything in the game. I've tried removing 'cross from byline' but it doesn't seem to make a difference. Is this something in FM21? I last played on FM19 and wingers seemed much more effective there, easily getting double figures in goals and assists. Is anyone else having this frustration? When the highlight goes to the flank, I know there is a 90% chance nothing will happen apart from getting a corner. I should add, this isn't a complaint and I can see from the thread what a good tactic this is. It just seems to be missing a 'spark' and I wonder if it is the wing play that makes me most frustrated. I'm thinking about ditching my wingers for good!
Any tips?
I currently have a save where I play team from country with alphabets order ( Algeria, Bulgaria, Belgium, ...). And I haven't struggling a lots like you describe. Also It depends on the team you managing, like you managing a team with media prediction 12th then when the season end, you end up like 7th to 6th is fine to me. Because your squad is weak and doesnt have that many players to rotate.
If you can, just upload the save and let me see if I can do anything with that
pgsonline said: Firstly, congratulations on the tactic. It clearly is working so well for others and the results I see are amazing.
I'm having some mixed results with it to be honest. I will add that I'm in the Croatian league with no money - so no Messi or Salah for me!. So I'm aware nothing will come easy for my team. I do consistently win the league now, but have hit a brick wall and no matter what better quality players I bring in, I cannot make that jump into being a European contender.
Even with a reasonable squad, I'm not dominating games in my league. Winning yes, but despite shouts and team talks and rotation, the games are quite laboured. The real frustration I'm having is with the wide players - and to be fair. this tactic is not alone in this. Not matter how quick, or good at dribbling, they seem hell bent in running into dead ends. True, they win corner after corner, but very rarely do they deliver anything in the game. I've tried removing 'cross from byline' but it doesn't seem to make a difference. Is this something in FM21? I last played on FM19 and wingers seemed much more effective there, easily getting double figures in goals and assists. Is anyone else having this frustration? When the highlight goes to the flank, I know there is a 90% chance nothing will happen apart from getting a corner. I should add, this isn't a complaint and I can see from the thread what a good tactic this is. It just seems to be missing a 'spark' and I wonder if it is the wing play that makes me most frustrated. I'm thinking about ditching my wingers for good!
Any tips?
I can't say much about why you are not able to challenge the european title, as it can be several reasons. Is your team fast, like everyone with pace and acceleration at least 14+?
About the wingers, it's like real life. Most of the times they don't manage to do anything. We just got spoiled to live in an era with Messi, Cristiano Ronaldo, Neymar and so many amazing forwards, but other than those very skilled players, most attacks usually get neutralized. With Blue you will get 20 or 30 good attacking opportunities in a match, but in real life, it's very common to end matches with less than 10.
What do you train guys usually? E.g. I have a forward retrained to SS with pace and acc 17. What should i train? Only attributes from that table or something else?
kireby said: What do you train guys usually? E.g. I have a forward retrained to SS with pace and acc 17. What should i train? Only attributes from that table or something else?
Focusing the training on the most influencing attributes from the fm-arena table would be a good choice.
Lapidus said: Focusing the training on the most influencing attributes from the fm-arena table would be a good choice.
Thanks
That was the tactic I was trying to achieve. I was tired of the unbalanced 4-3-3 options with players occupying the same space, specially in the wings. And even more tired of lone strikers being useless and lost amongst the opposition defenders (they only work properly for me if there's an AMC behind).
So far, I've managed to achieve some success with two @RDFTactics tactics (Bielsa's with Milan and Sacchi's with Arsenal), but that wasn't enough. I've tried some approaches based on the Strikerless guy ideas, but they didn't work. Then I tested this one in an unsuccessful save with Sampdoria and things just happened. I was going 4-3-3 and made my signings based on it, so I still don't have the players I need for the season. But it's working. I'm using mostly the Light Blue, playing more defensively, and got impressive results against Juventus (3-3 away, they scored from an IMPOSSIBLE free kick at 90+3), Milan 2-1, Roma 3-0, Lazio 3-0. I'm currently in 7th (had a bad start), but possibly will manage to get at least a place for Europa League.
The interchangeable movement of the players is great. Wingbacks switching from going inside/outside, the CM-at making late forward runs makes him my most dangerous player (now who's FMing here, huh). I have Onyeka (originally intended to be a B2B) and Jankto playing there. Onyeka is super fast, but lacks finishing. Still doing fine. Damsgaard and Gabbiadini are doing good as well as the SS.
As my SSs play near the midfield, I often ask them to man-mark the opposition CMs when playing a stronger side. And my wingers to mark their wing/fullbacks. This kills their chance creation possibilities. Also I removed the long throw-ins since it was causing more counters for the opposition than any good to my squad. I will need a player to suit the CM-at next season. Otávio from Porto was my main target, but he's not willing to join Samp now. He's quite a great player, I buy him every save. So I will need this Lothar Matthaus kind of guy, as it seems to be my main role.
Will come back for updates.
pauloolivieri said: That was the tactic I was trying to achieve. I was tired of the unbalanced 4-3-3 options with players occupying the same space, specially in the wings. And even more tired of lone strikers being useless and lost amongst the opposition defenders (they only work properly for me if there's an AMC behind).
So far, I've managed to achieve some success with two @RDFTactics tactics (Bielsa's with Milan and Sacchi's with Arsenal), but that wasn't enough. I've tried some approaches based on the Strikerless guy ideas, but they didn't work. Then I tested this one in an unsuccessful save with Sampdoria and things just happened. I was going 4-3-3 and made my signings based on it, so I still don't have the players I need for the season. But it's working. I'm using mostly the Light Blue, playing more defensively, and got impressive results against Juventus (3-3 away, they scored from an IMPOSSIBLE free kick at 90+3), Milan 2-1, Roma 3-0, Lazio 3-0. I'm currently in 7th (had a bad start), but possibly will manage to get at least a place for Europa League.
The interchangeable movement of the players is great. Wingbacks switching from going inside/outside, the CM-at making late forward runs makes him my most dangerous player (now who's FMing here, huh). I have Onyeka (originally intended to be a B2B) and Jankto playing there. Onyeka is super fast, but lacks finishing. Still doing fine. Damsgaard and Gabbiadini are doing good as well as the SS.
As my SSs play near the midfield, I often ask them to man-mark the opposition CMs when playing a stronger side. And my wingers to mark their wing/fullbacks. This kills their chance creation possibilities. Also I removed the long throw-ins since it was causing more counters for the opposition than any good to my squad. I will need a player to suit the CM-at next season. Otávio from Porto was my main target, but he's not willing to join Samp now. He's quite a great player, I buy him every save. So I will need this Lothar Matthaus kind of guy, as it seems to be my main role.
Will come back for updates.
Nice job there! I would just recommend Blue 3.0 with cautious mentality instead of Light Blue 3.0. Light version sacrifices win-rate to get less yellow cards and save some energy, it's supposed to be used when you want to hit the brakes thinking about future matches.
@ZaZ what do you think, which position is the most important/key positions for tactic?
i have many players who can play all positions from attack, ok im sure that CM is very important but i dont know, my best player has better left foot and natural on ML and AMC, where he should play?
bula1899 said: @ZaZ what do you think, which position is the most important/key positions for tactic?
i have many players who can play all positions from attack, ok im sure that CM is very important but i dont know, my best player has better left foot and natural on ML and AMC, where he should play?
It depends on your squad. If you have enough good players in one position, put him in the other. If both positions are well supplied, then switch the worst player off. If you don't have any good player in either position, then play him as ML, because it's easier to find a good AMC than a good ML.
I make a lot of plots and stuff from the player stats, and from a sheer numbers perspective, the defensive wingers do the most work for me (caveat, I'm using red instead of blue). This is in terms of things like int/90, tkl/90, key passes/90, chances created/90, etc. The wingers stand way out in terms of their overall production in those kinds of stats. They just do a ton of work in both phases of play.
That said, pace at AMC/MC is very important. If I had a player who was my best winger but also my fastest player, I'd play him at AMC/CM first.
drhay53 said: I make a lot of plots and stuff from the player stats, and from a sheer numbers perspective, the defensive wingers do the most work for me (caveat, I'm using red instead of blue). This is in terms of things like int/90, tkl/90, key passes/90, chances created/90, etc. The wingers stand way out in terms of their overall production in those kinds of stats. They just do a ton of work in both phases of play.
That said, pace at AMC/MC is very important. If I had a player who was my best winger but also my fastest player, I'd play him at AMC/CM first.
I have some stats of Blue 3.0 after one season in vacation mode. Columns are, in order:
passes completed, pass attempts, mistakes leading to goals, distance covered per 90 minutes, dribbles made per game, pass attempts per 90 minutes, key passes per 90 minutes, chances created per 90 minutes, shots per 90 minutes, shots on target ratio, interceptions per 90 minutes, tackles per game, tackle completion ratio, aerial challenge attempts per 90 minutes, cross completed compared to crosses attempted, overall number of crosses attempted.
Here's a look at my club ~40 games into the season. I'm in 2033 in Ligue 1 with RC Lens.
I took the metrics from FM Stag I believe.
The attacking metric is:
(key passes / 90) + (chances created / 90) + (assists / 90) + (shots on target / 90) + (goals / 90) + (xG / 90) + (xG / shot)
the defensive metric is:
(interceptions / 90) + (tackles / 90) + (headers won / 90) / 2
positions of the players:
Abbate - DL/DR
Balde - AMC
Balikwisha - MC
Benjelloun - AMC/ML/MR
Correa - DC
Cristiano - AMC/ML
Cuzcueta - ML
Damilola - MR/AMC
Emeljanov - MR
Gamba - MC/AMC
Jesus - ML
Jimenez - DL/DR
Juan - DM
Kozuchowski - DM/MC
Lambert - DL
Mashigo - DR/DL
Demirel - DC
Navio - DC
Nina - DC
Salvatori - DL
Vandenbroeck - AMC
Vera - MR
Vranckx - DM
The red lines are the team average in the attacking/defensive metrics. Players in the upper right are above average in both attacking and defensive metrics. They're nearly all primarily ML/MR players. Also, I move around set pieces every match, and the ML/MR are not always my corner takers.
Players in the upper left are above average attacking and below average defending. They're usually the AMC/MC positions.
The lower left are below average defending and attacking. In this case it's my DM's and GK's (who should really be left off the plot but I'm too lazy to filter them out).
The lower right are above average defending and below average attacking. These are mostly the back 4.
I've been making this plot for a few seasons with the red version of this shape, and the distribution of players shown here is pretty universally what I've seen.
There's nothing all that surprising about where the positions end up but I use this type of thing to compare players against each other, i.e. Vandenbroeck is a world class player making $10 million/yr, whereas Damilola is 17 years old making $1 million / yr, and they're practically performing the same. Vandenbroeck plays tougher matches of course but he's really not playing as well as I think he should.
drhay53 said:
Here's a look at my club ~40 games into the season. I'm in 2033 in Ligue 1 with RC Lens.
I took the metrics from FM Stag I believe.
The attacking metric is:
(key passes / 90) + (chances created / 90) + (assists / 90) + (shots on target / 90) + (goals / 90) + (xG / 90) + (xG / shot)
the defensive metric is:
(interceptions / 90) + (tackles / 90) + (headers won / 90) / 2
positions of the players:
Abbate - DL/DR
Balde - AMC
Balikwisha - MC
Benjelloun - AMC/ML/MR
Correa - DC
Cristiano - AMC/ML
Cuzcueta - ML
Damilola - MR/AMC
Emeljanov - MR
Gamba - MC/AMC
Jesus - ML
Jimenez - DL/DR
Juan - DM
Kozuchowski - DM/MC
Lambert - DL
Mashigo - DR/DL
Demirel - DC
Navio - DC
Nina - DC
Salvatori - DL
Vandenbroeck - AMC
Vera - MR
Vranckx - DM
The red lines are the team average in the attacking/defensive metrics. Players in the upper right are above average in both attacking and defensive metrics. They're nearly all primarily ML/MR players. Also, I move around set pieces every match, and the ML/MR are not always my corner takers.
Players in the upper left are above average attacking and below average defending. They're usually the AMC/MC positions.
The lower left are below average defending and attacking. In this case it's my DM's and GK's (who should really be left off the plot but I'm too lazy to filter them out).
The lower right are above average defending and below average attacking. These are mostly the back 4.
I've been making this plot for a few seasons with the red version of this shape, and the distribution of players shown here is pretty universally what I've seen.
There's nothing all that surprising about where the positions end up but I use this type of thing to compare players against each other, i.e. Vandenbroeck is a world class player making $10 million/yr, whereas Damilola is 17 years old making $1 million / yr, and they're practically performing the same. Vandenbroeck plays tougher matches of course but he's really not playing as well as I think he should.
Thanks for the graph, it is very nice. Too bad such thing is not part of the game itself. Some people were commenting here that wingers don't perform well, but I guess this data clearly shows the opposite.
so do DW give you a better performance the wingers?
wixta79 said: so do DW give you a better performance the wingers?
From my experience there's almost no difference between them and if there's any then it's probably about 0.05%.
wixta79 said: so do DW give you a better performance the wingers?
They are very similar, but I believe DW are more consistent. It's like DW can go from 6-8 in performance while W-Su goes from 5-9. In both cases, the average is 7. (Hypothetical performance, not in game scores.)
ZaZ said: They are very similar, but I believe DW are more consistent. It's like DW can go from 6-8 in performance while W-Su goes from 5-9. In both cases, the average is 7. (Hypothetical performance, not in game scores.)
Hey @ZaZ, can you create a new tactic with 2 AF ( with the same PI's like SS) ?. I just wanted to see which grade that tactic gonna get. I think It gonna be 7.0
ta2199 said: Hey @ZaZ, can you create a new tactic with 2 AF ( with the same PI's like SS) ?. I just wanted to see which grade that tactic gonna get. I think It gonna be 7.0
I don't think it will be much different from Fanatic, but running to post results.
ZaZ said: I don't think it will be much different from Fanatic, but running to post results.
I think you need to make a new topic for it. It will be the best new ST tactic, maybe about 7.0
Cuz Phoenix was 7.0 and Fanatic is 6.8. So I think the same will apply to this AF tweak.
ZaZ said: I don't think it will be much different from Fanatic, but running to post results.
I think this is important for long term saves. When taking over a club they usually a have top influential ST. It would be good to play first season with a ST, let him bang the goals in and sell him the next summer and move to the Strikerless formation
Middleweight165 said: I think this is important for long term saves. When taking over a club they usually a have top influential ST. It would be good to play first season with a ST, let him bang the goals in and sell him the next summer and move to the Strikerless formation
I think you dont need to. Just play many friendly games before season start, setup trainning and let him play at the new position. Wouldn't take that long to make him comfortable at SS position.
ta2199 said: I think you dont need to. Just play many friendly games before season start, setup trainning and let him play at the new position. Wouldn't take that long to make him comfortable at SS position.
Even if he has no rating at AMC?
Middleweight165 said: Even if he has no rating at AMC?
Fast striker having good finishing, passing and vision becomes a murderer at AMC. I usually set filter by positions so i buy either AMC or ST when i need SS