ZaZ - Blue 3.0

by ZaZ, Jan 12, 2021

ZaZ said: Team Report -> Analyst Report -> Scoring -> Assists.

However, you shouldn't look at throw-ins only by assists. In my setup, it usually gives no assists at all, but put players in position to make key passes. Unfortunately, you can't check the stats for pre-assists.


Yeah I guessed that, how do do test the impact of throw-ins then? Eye test? Just interested to know how i can test if adding different throw ins like @Nebuuuu has a positive effect

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Middleweight165 said: Yeah I guessed that, how do do test the impact of throw-ins then? Eye test? Just interested to know how i can test if adding different throw ins like @Nebuuuu has a positive effect

Make a save file at the start of the game with one or two teams. Set the conditions you want to test and run the entire season, then take note of points, goals scored and goals conceded. Reload, set up again and re-run until you have five results. Discard the two best scores and the two worst scores (sorted by points), and you will have your median, meaning you expect half of any other tests to be above this threshold and half to be below. This is how good your tactic is. Now do the same to the second variant, with a different throw-in setting, and compare the medians. The one with best points per match is probably better.

To have higher confidence in your result, you can either isolate variables, like freezing attribute growth, removing injuries and setting some stuff to maximum (like morale, condition and tactical familiarity), or you can increase the number of runs (always discarding the best and worst to pick the middle one), or you can increase the number of matches in a season.

If you want even more confidence, then instead of median you can make plot boxes, or do a rank test like mann-whitney, but that would probably be too much for just a game.

I usually do the first option, five tests on vacation mode then compare the medians.

P.S.: The point of discarding best and worst scores instead of using the average value of all runs is to avoid outliers, which are runs that didn't reflect what you really want to test. For example, a season full of injuries, or a season where the team played too well and all opponents too badly because of RNG. Those outliers can cause distortions, so they should be handled somehow before drawing conclusions.

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Thanks @ZaZ. How does one isolate the variables? I'm assuming this how the tests are run on this site?

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Middleweight165 said: Thanks @ZaZ. How does one isolate the variables? I'm assuming this how the tests are run on this site?

Yeah, that's how they do here.

If you make both sides have maximum morale, for example, then you know no side is taking advantage of higher morale. That means morale is not influencing the result of the match for either side, or in other words, the tactic and morale are now two independent variables.

The same can be applied for injuries, happiness, fatigue, condition and fitness, for example. That way, you know the thing being evaluated is the tactic, and not player management. Since the same is also applied to the opponent, then no team is taking advantage of having a better or worse management (or larger squad).

There are different ways of freezing those things, but you can easily find about it with a Google search or creating a topic asking that here.

Another variable you can remove is making sure all teams have capable players for all positions, so a tactic doesn't fail because some team doesn't have good wingers, for example. That is one of the main differences between here and FM-base, if I remember correctly.

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@ZaZ  what's your opinion on using BWM on support instead of DLP? I've seen people talking on diff forums that BWM would get higher ratings than the DLP. Do you think this change would impact the tactic on a higher scale?

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alex said: @ZaZ  what's your opinion on using BWM on support instead of DLP? I've seen people talking on diff forums that BWM would get higher ratings than the DLP. Do you think this change would impact the tactic on a higher scale?

Maybe the DM would get better scores, but the tactic would definitely perform worse as a whole. I already tested it in the past.

The low scores of a specific position say very little about the tactic performance. DM might be the only one in the team scoring under 7, but he is directly responsible for the others scoring well. When you change his role, all other positions perform worse, which isn't worth it in the end.

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hahahahah game dont want i score and win :D

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100ka said: hahahahah game dont want i score and win :D

In FM I've seen even worse bad luck than that. I remember few matches where my opponent had 0 shots on target but managed to score few goals and all of them were own goals :)

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ZaZ said: Yeah, that's how they do here.

If you make both sides have maximum morale, for example, then you know no side is taking advantage of higher morale. That means morale is not influencing the result of the match for either side, or in other words, the tactic and morale are now two independent variables.

The same can be applied for injuries, happiness, fatigue, condition and fitness, for example. That way, you know the thing being evaluated is the tactic, and not player management. Since the same is also applied to the opponent, then no team is taking advantage of having a better or worse management (or larger squad).

There are different ways of freezing those things, but you can easily find about it with a Google search or creating a topic asking that here.

Another variable you can remove is making sure all teams have capable players for all positions, so a tactic doesn't fail because some team doesn't have good wingers, for example. That is one of the main differences between here and FM-base, if I remember correctly.


Thanks, I'll ask in the general forum about the freezing

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ZaZ said: Not really. When you can't score against smaller teams, it's usually because of complacency. It's usually more effective to yell at them at half time than changing tactics.

Also, I usually use train three tactics: Blue when I want to maximize goal difference, Solid Blue when I want to minimize goals conceded and Light Blue to save energy and take less cards. I don't use a tactic to maximize scoring. Dark Blue is a very attacking version that was added because people asked, not because I use it.


What do you do when you need a goal because your are losing?

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The best.. thanks again zaz

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@ZaZ Do you think Ambition and Professionalism work together in order for players to develop ? I've seen player with 12+ those attributes develop like crazy. They only need 1 to 2 season to reach their PA

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I believe determination is the biggest attribute contributor to development

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CBP87 said: I believe determination is the biggest attribute contributor to development
According to this one Determination is not that important

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Looks like there are differing opinions on the matter, but determination surely plays a role in development

https://www.guidetofm.com/squad/development/

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Middleweight165 said: What do you do when you need a goal because your are losing?

When I need goals I use Blue 3.0, it's already a very offensive tactic. My other two spots go to Solid and Light because I am more often winning than losing, so they help way more in the long run.

just me said: The best.. thanks again zaz

You're welcome! Thanks for using it!

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1st sesaon Zaz tactic ... no transfers fm 2021 fm touch .... wtf :D

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100ka said: 1st sesaon Zaz tactic ... no transfers fm 2021 fm touch .... wtf :D

Red Star for the win!

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@ZaZ hello, what do you advise in case of a red card and depending on the results?

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thepunisher23 said: @ZaZ hello, what do you advise in case of a red card and depending on the results?

I usually remove the CM and try to keep the rest of team shape. Other than that, just team motivation and finger crossing.

P.S.: Below are two matches were I got my players sent off very early in the match. My team was the weakest from Brazilian first division, while Santos and Flamengo were among the strongest. For some reason, opponents get complacent when that happens, so you can try to take advantage on that by holding on cautious until half time, then going back to positive in second half, when they start feeling nervous for not winning.

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ok thanks and how do you determine if the opponent has a stronger team? compared to the match odds?

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thepunisher23 said: ok thanks and how do you determine if the opponent has a stronger team? compared to the match odds?

Just by "feeling", trying to identify which teams I probably can't win in a normal day. For example, if I'm West Brom in Premier League (first year), then I know Liverpool and Manchester City are almost impossible to beat in normal conditions. For those teams I need a special strategy, different than what I would use for weaker teams like Aston Villa, Leeds and West Ham.

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Just finished a quick one season run with West Bromwich Albion. I tried to do the run in pandemic mode, trying to save as much money as possible. Finished the season in 5th (while stopping Arsenal's title in the last round) and won FA Cup. As a bonus, I upgraded training and youth facilities twice, as well as youth recruitment and junior coaching. Squad with CA/PA and main attributes is below, as well as the two only transfers I did this season (to balance the squad, two players with CA under 100). Tactic used was Blue 3.0.



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First of all, thank you very much for the tactic, I found it successful, yes...
Thanks to Light Blue 3.0, I defeated Trabzonspor, standing at the top of the league, 6-2 and became the champion with double goal difference.

However, there are a few things I don't understand:

1- You said that we will play Dark Blue 3.0 against weak teams; yes, I play it like that, but we are very open in defense.

2- When you were in Blue 3.0, you said to switch to Light Blue 3.0 while we were ahead with 2 or more goals, we gave a deficit again and conceded a goal.

What would you suggest?

There are 4 tactics; Blue 3.0, Solid Blue 3.0, Light Blue 3.0, Dark Blue 3.0...
When should we use these tactics?

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channibalism said: First of all, thank you very much for the tactic, I found it successful, yes...
Thanks to Light Blue 3.0, I defeated Trabzonspor, standing at the top of the league, 6-2 and became the champion with double goal difference.

However, there are a few things I don't understand:

1- You said that we will play Dark Blue 3.0 against weak teams; yes, I play it like that, but we are very open in defense.

2- When you were in Blue 3.0, you said to switch to Light Blue 3.0 while we were ahead with 2 or more goals, we gave a deficit again and conceded a goal.

What would you suggest?

There are 4 tactics; Blue 3.0, Solid Blue 3.0, Light Blue 3.0, Dark Blue 3.0...
When should we use these tactics?


Thank you for testing the tactic!

About your questions, let me talk about the 4 tactics individually:
Dark Blue is supposed to be used when you are desperate to score goals, sacrificing defense for attack. Personally, I don't use it, openning space for the other three tactics. I added it there because people asked for it, but I think Blue 3.0 is attacking enough already.
Solid Blue is the opposite of Dark Blue, sacrificing attack to concede less goals. It's supposed to be used when you want to hold the score, usually when winning by 2+ goals, or even less if your opponent is stronger. It's also the tactic I use in the first half against very strong opponents, to make their players anxious at second half for not winning, which makes them play worse and allow me to grab a victory when I switch to Blue 3.0 at half time.
Light Blue is a tactic to save energy and avoid bookings, supposed to be used when you think you can't lose anymore. I often use it when winning by 3+ goals. Also, the version I use has neutral tempo, saving even more energy. It's important to understand that this tactic performs worse than Blue or Solid Blue, because it sacrifices good opportunities in order to waste time.
Blue is the standard tactic to be used anytime you want to maximize your winning chance. You can even use it the entire season without any problems, without any of the other tactics. It's very solid in the attack and defense, which is why it's in the top of the table for goal difference.

So, how would I use that against a team evenly matched? Start with Blue, change to Solid when winning by two goals, change to Light when winning by three goals. If they score a goal and reduce my lead to two goals, then I go back to Solid, and if they score again and reduce the lead to one goal, I then change back to Blue. That's what I usually do, but you can very well use Blue 3.0 the entire match without any problem.

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ZaZ said: Thank you for testing the tactic!

About your questions, let me talk about the 4 tactics individually:
Dark Blue is supposed to be used when you are desperate to score goals, sacrificing defense for attack. Personally, I don't use it, openning space for the other three tactics. I added it there because people asked for it, but I think Blue 3.0 is attacking enough already.
Solid Blue is the opposite of Dark Blue, sacrificing attack to concede less goals. It's supposed to be used when you want to hold the score, usually when winning by 2+ goals, or even less if your opponent is stronger. It's also the tactic I use in the first half against very strong opponents, to make their players anxious at second half for not winning, which makes them play worse and allow me to grab a victory when I switch to Blue 3.0 at half time.
Light Blue is a tactic to save energy and avoid bookings, supposed to be used when you think you can't lose anymore. I often use it when winning by 3+ goals. Also, the version I use has neutral tempo, saving even more energy. It's important to understand that this tactic performs worse than Blue or Solid Blue, because it sacrifices good opportunities in order to waste time.
Blue is the standard tactic to be used anytime you want to maximize your winning chance. You can even use it the entire season without any problems, without any of the other tactics. It's very solid in the attack and defense, which is why it's in the top of the table for goal difference.

So, how would I use that against a team evenly matched? Start with Blue, change to Solid when winning by two goals, change to Light when winning by three goals. If they score a goal and reduce my lead to two goals, then I go back to Solid, and if they score again and reduce the lead to one goal, I then change back to Blue. That's what I usually do, but you can very well use Blue 3.0 the entire match without any problem.


Thanks, mate!

I'll try and let you know the results!

As training programs, should we use the "Pre-Season" image for the pre-Season you mentioned and the "In-Season" program during the Season for the whole season? Or will we have to do a different program?

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channibalism said: Thanks, mate!

I'll try and let you know the results!

As training programs, should we use the "Pre-Season" image for the pre-Season you mentioned and the "In-Season" program during the Season for the whole season? Or will we have to do a different program?


That's what I do, but I don't think it will be much worse if you use a different training routine (as long as you don't kill your players with too much work).

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seasone finsih and what tell ... so good tactic ... dont have that success whit normal FM 2021 (this is Touch verison ) i win some records in Serbian league whit most pts win in history of Serbian league :D 110 pts and no lose game in seasone so good evriting

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100ka said: seasone finsih and what tell ... so good tactic ... dont have that success whit normal FM 2021 (this is Touch verison ) i win some records in Serbian league whit most pts win in history of Serbian league :D 110 pts and no lose game in seasone so good evriting

Gratz!

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