Do you know what TIs convert to what PIs? Correct me if I am wrong: - Run at defense -> dribble more - Get stuck in -> press harder* - Be more expressive -> take more risks or roam from position? - Anything else?
Maverick said: "Get Stuck" TI and "Tackle Harder" PI isn't the same thing.
"Get Stuck" TI also increases the pressing intensity but "Tackle Harder" PI doesn't do that.
"Run At Defense" TI and "Dribble More" PI do the same thing, they set the dribbling setting at the highest possible level. Expand
So, is get stuck in useless if you use maximum pressing intensity already?
Another question: I often use players in a position that they are not training, like a DRL in MRL or DM in CM, for example. If instead of using PI for dribble more I use the TI, does that mean they will perform better, since they will have familiarity to the dribble more instruction from TI, which they wouldn't from playing out of position?
Prutton said: So, is get stuck in useless if you use maximum pressing intensity already? Expand
"Get Stuck In" TI does 2 things: 1) Actives "Tackle Harder" for all positions in your tactic 2) Increases the pressing intensity.
So if you don't want to increase the pressing intensity and you want to activate "Tackle Harder" only for some positions then you can use "Tackle Harder" PI instead of "Get Stuck In" TI.
Prutton said: Do you know what TIs convert to what PIs? Expand
That subject is huge. If you narrow your question then I'll try to help.
Prutton said: Another question: I often use players in a position that they are not training, like a DRL in MRL or DM in CM, for example. If instead of using PI for dribble more I use the TI, does that mean they will perform better, since they will have familiarity to the dribble more instruction from TI, which they wouldn't from playing out of position? Expand
a player ability to play at a position and the tactic familiarity are different things and they don't interchange
Prutton said: I wonder why Run at Defense doesn't make much difference. Judging by the results, now with Agility too, as well as Acceleration, Pace and Dribbling, it should be a super effective TI. Expand
Also, "Run At Defense" won't make much difference when you manage Barca, Liverpool, Man City or any other top club because anyway many attacking players in those teams already have "Runs With Ball Often" Player Trait so "Run At Defense", "Dribble More" or "Dribble Less" instructions won't make any difference for them.
Just look at the player traits of Messi, Salah and Mane
That's why any tactic works very well with such teams as Barca, Liverpool, Man City and so on, it's not only because the players in those teams have crazy attributes but that's also because many players in those teams have many preset "locked" tactical instructions in their player traits so that makes a poor tactic works good.
Pulsar said: Also, "Run At Defense" won't make much difference when you manage Barca, Liverpool, Man City or any other top club because anyway many attacking players in those teams already have "Runs With Ball Often" Player Trait so "Run At Defense", "Dribble More" or "Dribble Less" instructions won't make any difference for them.
Just look at the player traits of Messi, Salah and Mane
That's why any tactic works very well with such teams as Barca, Liverpool, Man City and so on, it's not only because the players in those teams have crazy attributes but that's also because many players in those teams have many preset "locked" tactical instructions in their player traits so that makes a poor tactic works good. Expand
More dribbling is better than less dribbling, but there is way more than that for a tactic.
Zealot said: if players don't need a more obvious attribute like Finishing for scoring then I wouldn't be surprised to know they don't need First Touch to score Expand
Reminds me of old Winning Eleven where you could put Roberto Carlos as striker just because he had maximum speed.
Prutton said: @Zippo , will Bravery, Determination and Aggression be tested? I don't think they will change much, but two of them are free stats. Expand
I don't think there's much point in testing Aggression and Bravery attributes but Determination might be tested at some point.
Zippo said: I don't think there's a point in testing Aggression and Bravery attributes but Determination might be tested at some point. Expand
Determination also affects attribute gain from training and other aspects, so I believe it's very important, as well as being free. I agree with Bravery not being so important, considering that tackling and marking didn't matter much either. However, Aggression might be relevant since it is another free attribute, which costs no point in CA.
Prutton said: Determination also affects attribute gain from training and other aspects, so I believe it's very important, as well as being free. I agree with Bravery not being so important, considering that tackling and marking didn't matter much either. However, Aggression might be relevant since it is another free attribute, which costs no point in CA. Expand
In our testing the attributes can't change during the testing, they are frozen by FMRTE.
If you want to get a fast development rate then you should look for high Professional and Ambition attributes, they have more influence on the development rate than Determination attribute.
Determination comes on the stage when your team concedes a goal or starts losing, a high Determination attribute prevents the Morale from dropping.
I suppose we can now separate attributes in tiers of importance: Tier S: Acceleration and Pace Tier A: Agility and Dribbling Tier B: Balance and Vision Tier C: Anticipation, Jumping Reach, Decisions, Positioning and Passing Tier F: All others
Personally, I will focus on the two top tiers, as well as making sure tier B is not too low.
P.S.: Edited to keep fewer attributes in top tiers.
Prutton said: I suppose we can now separate attributes in tiers of importance: Tier S: Acceleration and Pace Tier A: Agility and Dribbling Tier B: Balance and Vision Tier C: Anticipation, Jumping Reach, Decisions, Positioning and Passing Tier F: All others
Personally, I will focus on the two top tiers, as well as making sure tier B is not too low.
P.S.: Edited to keep fewer attributes in top tiers. Expand
I think for Central Defenders Jumping Reach, Positioning and Anticipating are more important than Dribbling and Vision.
Bogeyman said: I think for Central Defenders Jumping Reach, Positioning and Anticipating are more important than Dribbling and Vision. Expand
Maybe you are right for vision. However, I think Dribbling is still important, since removing dribble more from defenders (changing to CD) make them perform worse.
P.S.: To be honest, ignoring tiers B and down would be ok, since the difference is only big enough for tier A and S attributes. You can use low tiers for tiebreaking.
Bogeyman said: I think for Central Defenders Jumping Reach, Positioning and Anticipating are more important than Dribbling and Vision. Expand
Prutton said: Maybe you are right for vision. However, I think Dribbling is still important, since removing dribble more from defenders (changing to CD) make them perform worse.
P.S.: To be honest, ignoring tiers B and down would be ok, since the difference is only big enough for the other 4 top attributes. You can use other tiers for tiebreaking. Expand
As the testing revealed the Dribbling attribute is an important attribute but I'm sure its importance varies for different positions.
I don't believe Dribbling is very important for Central Defenders or it's more important than Jumping Reach for them.
It had a significant impact on the result in the testing because there are still 8 positions in the tactic(except Central Defenders) that depend on Dribbling attributes and I'm sure all that also apply to Vision attribute.
Lapidus said: As the testing revealed the Dribbling attribute is an important attribute but I'm sure its importance varies for different positions.
I don't believe Dribbling is very important for Central Defenders or it's more important than Jumping Reach for them.
It had a significant impact on the result in the testing because there are still 8 positions in the tactic(except Central Defenders) that depend on Dribbling attributes and I'm sure all that also apply to Vision attribute. Expand
I agree, such positions as GK and Central Defenders have an unique behavior, it's very different from other positions and it's obvious that such attributes as Dribbling and Vision can't have the same importance to them as to other positions.
Prutton said: However, I think Dribbling is still important, since removing dribble more from defenders (changing to CD) make them perform worse. Expand
Yes, the Ball Playing Defenders have high dribbling settings as well as the Sweeper Keeper but you really won't see the Sweeper Keeper are doing any dribbling in matches, the same for the Ball Playing Defenders even with high dribbling settings they almost don't do dribbling in matches.
I find Vision attribute is more important for Central Defenders than Dribbling because I see the Central Defenders do a lot passes every match and they are responsible for starting attacks with accurate passes and not just hoof the ball forward.
At least now we have something to work on. DC and GK are harder to measure. For the other positions, focusing in the 4 best attributes of the tests will be effective. Checking the table, I imagine Dribbling isn't as important for defenders, since it didn't increase GA. The ones that did increase the most, other than Acceleration and Pace, are Jumping Reach, Balance and Anticipation. I will use those 5 to guide my search for defenders. For goalkeepers, I don't think those tests are so relevant.
Prutton said: @Zippo, can you test height, please? Like 5cm difference in all positions? Expand
We might test that at some point but honestly, I don't consider that as the main priority because "Jumping Reach" attribute has been tested already and it has more impact than height when it comes air challenging for the ball.
Zippo said: We might test that at some point but honestly, I don't consider that as the main priority because "Jumping Reach" attribute has been tested already and it has more impact than height when it comes air challenging for the ball. Expand
Fair enough. I just wanted to know because I have rejected several good players, specially defenders, because they are too short. For example, I usually don't hire a DC shorter than 180 cm. Knowing it's not an issue would also allow me to retrain some DLR or DM into DC.
It's funny that the wage budged of my team is only 1.5M Euro per week which is about 3 times less than what Chelsea, Man Utd and Man City pay to their players
Prutton said: Fair enough. I just wanted to know because I have rejected several good players, specially defenders, because they are too short. For example, I usually don't hire a DC shorter than 180 cm. Knowing it's not an issue would also allow me to retrain some DLR or DM into DC. Expand
I've got this guy as one of the central defenders.
His Height is 182cm and Jumping Reach is "11" but you've seen my results
Maverick said: Yes, that info from the Devs
Do you know what TIs convert to what PIs? Correct me if I am wrong:
- Run at defense -> dribble more
- Get stuck in -> press harder*
- Be more expressive -> take more risks or roam from position?
- Anything else?
Maverick said: "Get Stuck" TI and "Tackle Harder" PI isn't the same thing.
"Get Stuck" TI also increases the pressing intensity but "Tackle Harder" PI doesn't do that.
"Run At Defense" TI and "Dribble More" PI do the same thing, they set the dribbling setting at the highest possible level.
So, is get stuck in useless if you use maximum pressing intensity already?
Another question: I often use players in a position that they are not training, like a DRL in MRL or DM in CM, for example. If instead of using PI for dribble more I use the TI, does that mean they will perform better, since they will have familiarity to the dribble more instruction from TI, which they wouldn't from playing out of position?
Prutton said: So, is get stuck in useless if you use maximum pressing intensity already?
"Get Stuck In" TI does 2 things: 1) Actives "Tackle Harder" for all positions in your tactic 2) Increases the pressing intensity.
So if you don't want to increase the pressing intensity and you want to activate "Tackle Harder" only for some positions then you can use "Tackle Harder" PI instead of "Get Stuck In" TI.
Prutton said: Do you know what TIs convert to what PIs?
That subject is huge. If you narrow your question then I'll try to help.
Prutton said: Another question: I often use players in a position that they are not training, like a DRL in MRL or DM in CM, for example. If instead of using PI for dribble more I use the TI, does that mean they will perform better, since they will have familiarity to the dribble more instruction from TI, which they wouldn't from playing out of position?
a player ability to play at a position and the tactic familiarity are different things and they don't interchange
Prutton said: I wonder why Run at Defense doesn't make much difference. Judging by the results, now with Agility too, as well as Acceleration, Pace and Dribbling, it should be a super effective TI.
Also, "Run At Defense" won't make much difference when you manage Barca, Liverpool, Man City or any other top club because anyway many attacking players in those teams already have "Runs With Ball Often" Player Trait so "Run At Defense", "Dribble More" or "Dribble Less" instructions won't make any difference for them.
Just look at the player traits of Messi, Salah and Mane
That's why any tactic works very well with such teams as Barca, Liverpool, Man City and so on, it's not only because the players in those teams have crazy attributes but that's also because many players in those teams have many preset "locked" tactical instructions in their player traits so that makes a poor tactic works good.
Pulsar said: Also, "Run At Defense" won't make much difference when you manage Barca, Liverpool, Man City or any other top club because anyway many attacking players in those teams already have "Runs With Ball Often" Player Trait so "Run At Defense", "Dribble More" or "Dribble Less" instructions won't make any difference for them.
Just look at the player traits of Messi, Salah and Mane
That's why any tactic works very well with such teams as Barca, Liverpool, Man City and so on, it's not only because the players in those teams have crazy attributes but that's also because many players in those teams have many preset "locked" tactical instructions in their player traits so that makes a poor tactic works good.
More dribbling is better than less dribbling, but there is way more than that for a tactic.
Prutton said: More dribbling is better than less dribbling, but there is way more than that for a tactic.
That's for sure. I'm just saying that many players in top teams have a lot of player traits which makes them play regardless of the tactic.
What the fuck? How come they score so much more with less first touch? I always thought it was a great attribute to have. =(
Prutton said: What the fuck? How come they score so much more with less first touch? I always thought it was a great attribute to have. =(
if players don't need a more obvious attribute like Finishing for scoring then I wouldn't be surprised to know they don't need First Touch to score
Zealot said: if players don't need a more obvious attribute like Finishing for scoring then I wouldn't be surprised to know they don't need First Touch to score
Reminds me of old Winning Eleven where you could put Roberto Carlos as striker just because he had maximum speed.
@Zippo, will Bravery, Determination and Aggression be tested? I don't think they will change much, but two of them are free stats.
Prutton said: @Zippo , will Bravery, Determination and Aggression be tested? I don't think they will change much, but two of them are free stats.
I don't think there's much point in testing Aggression and Bravery attributes but Determination might be tested at some point.
Zippo said: I don't think there's a point in testing Aggression and Bravery attributes but Determination might be tested at some point.
Determination also affects attribute gain from training and other aspects, so I believe it's very important, as well as being free. I agree with Bravery not being so important, considering that tackling and marking didn't matter much either. However, Aggression might be relevant since it is another free attribute, which costs no point in CA.
Prutton said: Determination also affects attribute gain from training and other aspects, so I believe it's very important, as well as being free. I agree with Bravery not being so important, considering that tackling and marking didn't matter much either. However, Aggression might be relevant since it is another free attribute, which costs no point in CA.
In our testing the attributes can't change during the testing, they are frozen by FMRTE.
If you want to get a fast development rate then you should look for high Professional and Ambition attributes, they have more influence on the development rate than Determination attribute.
Determination comes on the stage when your team concedes a goal or starts losing, a high Determination attribute prevents the Morale from dropping.
I suppose we can now separate attributes in tiers of importance:
Tier S: Acceleration and Pace
Tier A: Agility and Dribbling
Tier B: Balance and Vision
Tier C: Anticipation, Jumping Reach, Decisions, Positioning and Passing
Tier F: All others
Personally, I will focus on the two top tiers, as well as making sure tier B is not too low.
P.S.: Edited to keep fewer attributes in top tiers.
Prutton said: I suppose we can now separate attributes in tiers of importance:
Tier S: Acceleration and Pace
Tier A: Agility and Dribbling
Tier B: Balance and Vision
Tier C: Anticipation, Jumping Reach, Decisions, Positioning and Passing
Tier F: All others
Personally, I will focus on the two top tiers, as well as making sure tier B is not too low.
P.S.: Edited to keep fewer attributes in top tiers.
I think for Central Defenders Jumping Reach, Positioning and Anticipating are more important than Dribbling and Vision.
Bogeyman said: I think for Central Defenders Jumping Reach, Positioning and Anticipating are more important than Dribbling and Vision.
Maybe you are right for vision. However, I think Dribbling is still important, since removing dribble more from defenders (changing to CD) make them perform worse.
P.S.: To be honest, ignoring tiers B and down would be ok, since the difference is only big enough for tier A and S attributes. You can use low tiers for tiebreaking.
Bogeyman said: I think for Central Defenders Jumping Reach, Positioning and Anticipating are more important than Dribbling and Vision.
Prutton said: Maybe you are right for vision. However, I think Dribbling is still important, since removing dribble more from defenders (changing to CD) make them perform worse.
P.S.: To be honest, ignoring tiers B and down would be ok, since the difference is only big enough for the other 4 top attributes. You can use other tiers for tiebreaking.
As the testing revealed the Dribbling attribute is an important attribute but I'm sure its importance varies for different positions.
I don't believe Dribbling is very important for Central Defenders or it's more important than Jumping Reach for them.
It had a significant impact on the result in the testing because there are still 8 positions in the tactic(except Central Defenders) that depend on Dribbling attributes and I'm sure all that also apply to Vision attribute.
Lapidus said: As the testing revealed the Dribbling attribute is an important attribute but I'm sure its importance varies for different positions.
I don't believe Dribbling is very important for Central Defenders or it's more important than Jumping Reach for them.
It had a significant impact on the result in the testing because there are still 8 positions in the tactic(except Central Defenders) that depend on Dribbling attributes and I'm sure all that also apply to Vision attribute.
I agree, such positions as GK and Central Defenders have an unique behavior, it's very different from other positions and it's obvious that such attributes as Dribbling and Vision can't have the same importance to them as to other positions.
Prutton said: However, I think Dribbling is still important, since removing dribble more from defenders (changing to CD) make them perform worse.
Yes, the Ball Playing Defenders have high dribbling settings as well as the Sweeper Keeper but you really won't see the Sweeper Keeper are doing any dribbling in matches, the same for the Ball Playing Defenders even with high dribbling settings they almost don't do dribbling in matches.
I find Vision attribute is more important for Central Defenders than Dribbling because I see the Central Defenders do a lot passes every match and they are responsible for starting attacks with accurate passes and not just hoof the ball forward.
At least now we have something to work on. DC and GK are harder to measure. For the other positions, focusing in the 4 best attributes of the tests will be effective. Checking the table, I imagine Dribbling isn't as important for defenders, since it didn't increase GA. The ones that did increase the most, other than Acceleration and Pace, are Jumping Reach, Balance and Anticipation. I will use those 5 to guide my search for defenders. For goalkeepers, I don't think those tests are so relevant.
Make a table for this testing. with key skills
I started a new save with West Ham (pred. 11th) and lined up the team according with this table - https://fm-arena.com/table/9-player-attributes-importance/
In the first match vs Newcastle my team had about 40 shots and Newcastle has only 3 shots and 0 on target
Also, my team had 4.52 xG and Newcastle had 0.13 xG
@Zippo, can you test height, please? Like 5cm difference in all positions?
Prutton said: @Zippo, can you test height, please? Like 5cm difference in all positions?
We might test that at some point but honestly, I don't consider that as the main priority because "Jumping Reach" attribute has been tested already and it has more impact than height when it comes air challenging for the ball.
Rince said: I started a new save with West Ham (pred. 11th) and lined up the team according with this table - https://fm-arena.com/table/9-player-attributes-importance/
In the first match vs Newcastle my team had about 40 shots and Newcastle has only 3 shots and 0 on target
Also, my team had 4.52 xG and Newcastle had 0.13 xG
I'm playing the 2nd season with West Ham, just finished the 1st half of the season.
The team's sitting the 2nd place and I'm going to challenge for the title.
Here's my team
and here are the transfers I've made so far
How strong is my team? It was predicted to finish the 11th place before the season by media
The board would be already happy if I finish just somewhere mid table
Zippo said: We might test that at some point but honestly, I don't consider that as the main priority because "Jumping Reach" attribute has been tested already and it has more impact than height when it comes air challenging for the ball.
Fair enough. I just wanted to know because I have rejected several good players, specially defenders, because they are too short. For example, I usually don't hire a DC shorter than 180 cm. Knowing it's not an issue would also allow me to retrain some DLR or DM into DC.
LOL... I just won 0 - 2 vs Liverpool in an away match
It's funny that the wage budged of my team is only 1.5M Euro per week which is about 3 times less than what Chelsea, Man Utd and Man City pay to their players
But if look at the table...
Prutton said: Fair enough. I just wanted to know because I have rejected several good players, specially defenders, because they are too short. For example, I usually don't hire a DC shorter than 180 cm. Knowing it's not an issue would also allow me to retrain some DLR or DM into DC.
I've got this guy as one of the central defenders.
His Height is 182cm and Jumping Reach is "11" but you've seen my results