White Europe said: i like all testing and ideas but just looking at 4 attributes allowed me to win the league with burnley med pred 18, everyone over 14 pace/accel central mids jumping and dribbling above 11, central defs jumping at least 14 Expand What was your media prediction for the following season?
captain3 said: But if my tactic has overlapping centre backs how can I see the "real" value of my players in that role if I can't insert the weights on FM26 field? Expand
Whatever weights you put in are going to be the same on the Player scoring system no matter what the name is. Since the FM26 one doesn't work just use Ball playing defender or any role on FM24 and input your weights.
ZaZ said: I have no clue what he has better that is much better than other elite games, unless "gets the crowd going" makes him score more goals. Expand I think I've mentioned it before, but it's worth saying again, that I tested player traits and found that they have no positive performance effect as far as I could tell
( edited 2 days, 11 hours ago by GeorgeFloydOverdosed )
Share this post#275
Link to the post:
Stamina is never CA cost effective compared to pace/acc, but comes closest on DC. It is also easier to find pace than stamina, except for DM. On the other hand starting 15 pace/15 acc/12+ sta is near impossible to find, however I think it's reasonable to assume you can train up +1 pace/acc by mid-season. Stamina's importance will also diminish as your player's pace/acc increases. So overall I won't be moving to 14 pace/acc/sta (14 pace/acc/sta also does a bit worse).
Since DM has the most CA headroom and stamina is easier to find for DM, I'm probably going to change DM to 14 pace/14 acc/14 sta instead of 15/15/13.
Balance and natural fitness have been lowered to 10 for outfield.
For GK, reflexes has been lowered to 10. 6th, 4th, 4th with just 10 reflexes. So far it's looking like jumping reach and agility will stay at 14.
Edit: Having some issues, retesting these attributes..
GeorgeFloydOverdosed said: Stamina is never CA cost effective compared to pace/acc, but comes closest on DC. It is also easier to find pace than stamina, except for DM. On the other hand starting 15 pace/15 acc/12+ sta is near impossible to find, however I think it's reasonable to assume you can train up +1 pace/acc by mid-season. Stamina's importance will also diminish as your player's pace/acc increases. So overall I won't be moving to 14 pace/acc/sta (14 pace/acc/sta also does a bit worse).
Since DM has the most CA headroom and stamina is easier to find for DM, I'm probably going to change DM to 14 pace/14 acc/14 sta instead of 15/15/13.
Balance and natural fitness have been lowered to 10 for outfield.
For GK, reflexes has been lowered to 10. 6th, 4th, 4th with just 10 reflexes. So far it's looking like jumping reach and agility will stay at 14. Expand
Hey, thanks to your research, I’ve been playing FM much more efficiently. I’m always grateful! This filter you made—'FM24 Age 26+/Pure performance: https://files.catbox.moe/8wskjk.grf'—is this the latest version?
DC is the last position that needs stamina as they run much less. They can still perform to a high level late in games.
Jumping reach for keepers is basically irrelevant. It's tied to headers, whereas aerial reach is for catching the ball. Reflexes is the strongest attribute for a keeper. It's why older keepers who start in the game, Oblak for example, are still top, top keepers with lower agility.
Rain said: Whatever weights you put in are going to be the same on the Player scoring system no matter what the name is. Since the FM26 one doesn't work just use Ball playing defender or any role on FM24 and input your weights. Expand
So the value/rating in a position is the same for every role?
Can someone please send the downloadble schedule that was like discussed here or just send a screenshot of how it looks like, I didn't fully understand how it's meant to be arranged
captain3 said: So the value/rating in a position is the same for every role? Expand
They will all be according to what weights you use. The role selected doesn't matter on the Player Scoring system. So if you use his weights he posted recently or if you use the older ones where every position has different weights it doesn't matter.
Theoddkid said: Can someone please send the downloadble schedule that was like discussed here or just send a screenshot of how it looks like, I didn't fully understand how it's meant to be arranged Expand
Doesn't matter where you put them just always have the day after games all blank for super rest (i.e my games are always wednesday/saturday)
for fm24 still -- what's the best/recommended way to use the template ideals for position to search for players? maybe just use the key/green attributes for each position and knock the ratings down until you get a suitable audience pool?
dancamp said: for fm24 still -- what's the best/recommended way to use the template ideals for position to search for players? maybe just use the key/green attributes for each position and knock the ratings down until you get a suitable audience pool? Expand
You ignore the key/green attributes. Fastest players possible. Many attributes are useless
( edited 12 hours, 11 min ago by GeorgeFloydOverdosed )
Share this post#283
Link to the post:
I was suddenly finishing ~9th-11th in every result and I couldn't work out why. Turned out the error was thinking I could get away with aer 14 > 13 at the same time and forgot about it.
So aer 14 > 13 has a greater effect than ref 14 > 10 + all outfield bal 13 > 10, nat 14 > 10.
Reflexes - High weight cost. Harder to get great goalkeepers. Minimal performance loss from 13 > 10. Balance - Low weight cost. No benefit at very high values. ~2 position drop from 13 > 11. Natural fitness - Zero weight cost. Easy to find. Crucial for player-managed team fitness in spite of lack of position drop observed.
Overall, I think I'll probably settle on 11 ref 12 bal 12 nat for the weightings.
I also did some other kinds of tests:
No friendlies, team bonding + community outreach only training = No team cohesion improvement by season start
7 friendlies + meta training = Medium team cohesion improvement by season start
17 friendlies + meta training = Large team cohesion improvement by season start. 5th, 5th finishes.
Low altitude match (Tiberias, Israel, -656) = No match fitness/condition difference compared to normal friendlies at 0 altitude. Seems the altitude penalty doesn't invert at negative altitudes.
Low altitude match edited in database to minimum possible (Tiberias, Israel, -1000) = No match fitness/condition difference compared to normal friendlies at 0 altitude.
High altitude match (Cerro de Pasco, Peru, 14189) = Huge condition difference, no match fitness difference. Already knew the first part, but interesting that playing higher altitude friendlies only has big downsides as no match fitness benefit.
Crappy first team opposition vs. their u18 team = No significant difference, but their u18 team should be easier, which may mean better morale for your team.
Custom 'park the bus' style tactic vs. Knap tactic = 4% higher condition for park the bus, while match fitness is identical. The weaker result impairs the morale gain though, so maybe a good idea would be to use Knap tactic 1st half, then a very slow tactic 2nd half. Reason why 1st half is it's when fatigue and anxiety/complacency hasn't set in yet. Probably only worthwhile for mid-season friendly matches, when you already have full Knap tactic familiarity.
So overall I would schedule ~7 pre-season friendlies (whatever manages your team fitness best) against the weakest teams at low altitude stadiums (preferably your own) or weak high rep teams if you need money, and for any appropriate mid-season friendlies use Knap tactic for 1st half then a very slow tactic for 2nd half.
dor said: Hey, thanks to your research, I’ve been playing FM much more efficiently. I’m always grateful! This filter you made—'FM24 Age 26+/Pure performance: https://files.catbox.moe/8wskjk.grf'—is this the latest version? Expand FM Genie Scout is messed up, but that file will still give you decent results.
But for the latest weightings, you need to download 'FM 26 player scoring system' and use weights I posted on page 8. I'll be posting an updated list of the weights soon. Maybe I can just upload my own edited file that you can just drag-and-drop into the folder.
keithb said: Jumping reach for keepers is basically irrelevant. It's tied to headers, whereas aerial reach is for catching the ball. Reflexes is the strongest attribute for a keeper. Expand GK jump 14 > 10 results in 4th/5th > 7th/8th
More shoddy testing. From someone who thinks, from their testing, tactics are more important than attributes. Didn't have Haaland as the best player. Silly Lockjaw. Jumping reach over reflexes for keepers, maybe it's Bozo. Do those shoes hurt after a few hours? Always wondered that.
And for GK Agility 13 Reflexes 10 Aerial reach 13 other attributes 1 Expand
I would test that for you, except that I already know that would fail, not because of other attributes 1 (except for certain hiddens) but because of stamina 10 concentration 10. Wouldn't survive relegation.
GeorgeFloydOverdosed said: I would test that for you, except that I already know that would fail, not because of other attributes 1 (except for certain hiddens) but because of stamina 10 concentration 10. Wouldn't survive relegation. Expand
So make it 13 for stamina and concentration and 13 for important hidden attributes
White Europe said: i like all testing and ideas but just looking at 4 attributes allowed me to win the league with burnley med pred 18, everyone over 14 pace/accel central mids jumping and dribbling above 11, central defs jumping at least 14
What was your media prediction for the following season?
LightningFlik said: What was your media prediction for the following season?
In this season it was 18th, didn't start second season yet
captain3 said: But if my tactic has overlapping centre backs how can I see the "real" value of my players in that role if I can't insert the weights on FM26 field?
Whatever weights you put in are going to be the same on the Player scoring system no matter what the name is. Since the FM26 one doesn't work just use Ball playing defender or any role on FM24 and input your weights.
ZaZ said: I have no clue what he has better that is much better than other elite games, unless "gets the crowd going" makes him score more goals.
I think I've mentioned it before, but it's worth saying again, that I tested player traits and found that they have no positive performance effect as far as I could tell
Stamina is never CA cost effective compared to pace/acc, but comes closest on DC. It is also easier to find pace than stamina, except for DM. On the other hand starting 15 pace/15 acc/12+ sta is near impossible to find, however I think it's reasonable to assume you can train up +1 pace/acc by mid-season. Stamina's importance will also diminish as your player's pace/acc increases. So overall I won't be moving to 14 pace/acc/sta (14 pace/acc/sta also does a bit worse).
Since DM has the most CA headroom and stamina is easier to find for DM, I'm probably going to change DM to 14 pace/14 acc/14 sta instead of 15/15/13.
Balance and natural fitness have been lowered to 10 for outfield.
For GK, reflexes has been lowered to 10. 6th, 4th, 4th with just 10 reflexes. So far it's looking like jumping reach and agility will stay at 14.
Edit: Having some issues, retesting these attributes..
GeorgeFloydOverdosed said: Stamina is never CA cost effective compared to pace/acc, but comes closest on DC. It is also easier to find pace than stamina, except for DM. On the other hand starting 15 pace/15 acc/12+ sta is near impossible to find, however I think it's reasonable to assume you can train up +1 pace/acc by mid-season. Stamina's importance will also diminish as your player's pace/acc increases. So overall I won't be moving to 14 pace/acc/sta (14 pace/acc/sta also does a bit worse).
Since DM has the most CA headroom and stamina is easier to find for DM, I'm probably going to change DM to 14 pace/14 acc/14 sta instead of 15/15/13.
Balance and natural fitness have been lowered to 10 for outfield.
For GK, reflexes has been lowered to 10. 6th, 4th, 4th with just 10 reflexes. So far it's looking like jumping reach and agility will stay at 14.
Hey, thanks to your research, I’ve been playing FM much more efficiently. I’m always grateful!
This filter you made—'FM24 Age 26+/Pure performance: https://files.catbox.moe/8wskjk.grf'—is this the latest version?
DC is the last position that needs stamina as they run much less. They can still perform to a high level late in games.
Jumping reach for keepers is basically irrelevant. It's tied to headers, whereas aerial reach is for catching the ball. Reflexes is the strongest attribute for a keeper. It's why older keepers who start in the game, Oblak for example, are still top, top keepers with lower agility.
Rain said: Whatever weights you put in are going to be the same on the Player scoring system no matter what the name is. Since the FM26 one doesn't work just use Ball playing defender or any role on FM24 and input your weights.
So the value/rating in a position is the same for every role?
Can someone please send the downloadble schedule that was like discussed here or just send a screenshot of how it looks like, I didn't fully understand how it's meant to be arranged
captain3 said: So the value/rating in a position is the same for every role?
They will all be according to what weights you use. The role selected doesn't matter on the Player Scoring system. So if you use his weights he posted recently or if you use the older ones where every position has different weights it doesn't matter.
Theoddkid said: Can someone please send the downloadble schedule that was like discussed here or just send a screenshot of how it looks like, I didn't fully understand how it's meant to be arranged
Doesn't matter where you put them just always have the day after games all blank for super rest (i.e my games are always wednesday/saturday)
for fm24 still -- what's the best/recommended way to use the template ideals for position to search for players? maybe just use the key/green attributes for each position and knock the ratings down until you get a suitable audience pool?
dancamp said: for fm24 still -- what's the best/recommended way to use the template ideals for position to search for players? maybe just use the key/green attributes for each position and knock the ratings down until you get a suitable audience pool?
You ignore the key/green attributes. Fastest players possible. Many attributes are useless
Look at these;
https://fm-arena.com/thread/14009-attribute-testing-football-manager-24/
https://fm-arena.com/thread/18816-fm24-i-re-tested-the-goalkeeper-s-attributes-using-newer-test-league/
https://fm-arena.com/thread/13685-current-24-4-latest-version-full-attribute-test-52000-match-samples/
I was suddenly finishing ~9th-11th in every result and I couldn't work out why. Turned out the error was thinking I could get away with aer 14 > 13 at the same time and forgot about it.
So aer 14 > 13 has a greater effect than ref 14 > 10 + all outfield bal 13 > 10, nat 14 > 10.
Results (after fixing aer; bal nat is outfield):
10 ref 10 bal 10 nat - 7th, 9th
13 ref 10 bal 10 nat - 9th, 7th, 7th, 6th, 8th
10 ref 13 bal 14 nat - 5th, 5th, 10th, 5th, 6th, 11th, 4th
11 ref 11 bal 12 nat - 7th, 7th, 7th, 8th
Pros and cons:
Reflexes - High weight cost. Harder to get great goalkeepers. Minimal performance loss from 13 > 10.
Balance - Low weight cost. No benefit at very high values. ~2 position drop from 13 > 11.
Natural fitness - Zero weight cost. Easy to find. Crucial for player-managed team fitness in spite of lack of position drop observed.
Overall, I think I'll probably settle on 11 ref 12 bal 12 nat for the weightings.
I also did some other kinds of tests:
No friendlies, team bonding + community outreach only training = No team cohesion improvement by season start
7 friendlies + meta training = Medium team cohesion improvement by season start
17 friendlies + meta training = Large team cohesion improvement by season start. 5th, 5th finishes.
Low altitude match (Tiberias, Israel, -656) = No match fitness/condition difference compared to normal friendlies at 0 altitude. Seems the altitude penalty doesn't invert at negative altitudes.
Low altitude match edited in database to minimum possible (Tiberias, Israel, -1000) = No match fitness/condition difference compared to normal friendlies at 0 altitude.
High altitude match (Cerro de Pasco, Peru, 14189) = Huge condition difference, no match fitness difference. Already knew the first part, but interesting that playing higher altitude friendlies only has big downsides as no match fitness benefit.
Crappy first team opposition vs. their u18 team = No significant difference, but their u18 team should be easier, which may mean better morale for your team.
Custom 'park the bus' style tactic vs. Knap tactic = 4% higher condition for park the bus, while match fitness is identical. The weaker result impairs the morale gain though, so maybe a good idea would be to use Knap tactic 1st half, then a very slow tactic 2nd half. Reason why 1st half is it's when fatigue and anxiety/complacency hasn't set in yet. Probably only worthwhile for mid-season friendly matches, when you already have full Knap tactic familiarity.
So overall I would schedule ~7 pre-season friendlies (whatever manages your team fitness best) against the weakest teams at low altitude stadiums (preferably your own) or weak high rep teams if you need money, and for any appropriate mid-season friendlies use Knap tactic for 1st half then a very slow tactic for 2nd half.
dor said: Hey, thanks to your research, I’ve been playing FM much more efficiently. I’m always grateful!
This filter you made—'FM24 Age 26+/Pure performance: https://files.catbox.moe/8wskjk.grf'—is this the latest version?
FM Genie Scout is messed up, but that file will still give you decent results.
But for the latest weightings, you need to download 'FM 26 player scoring system' and use weights I posted on page 8. I'll be posting an updated list of the weights soon. Maybe I can just upload my own edited file that you can just drag-and-drop into the folder.
keithb said: Jumping reach for keepers is basically irrelevant. It's tied to headers, whereas aerial reach is for catching the ball. Reflexes is the strongest attribute for a keeper.
GK jump 14 > 10 results in 4th/5th > 7th/8th
GK aer 14 > 13 results in 4th/5th > 9th-11th
GK ref 14 > 10 results in 4th/5th > 5th/6th
BTW is this guy you?
More shoddy testing. From someone who thinks, from their testing, tactics are more important than attributes. Didn't have Haaland as the best player. Silly Lockjaw. Jumping reach over reflexes for keepers, maybe it's Bozo. Do those shoes hurt after a few hours? Always wondered that.
Using everything I know so far I had a go at trying to survive with as many grey attributes as possible. Hiddens were kept the same.
Survived for 25 Premier League games, 13th when sacked. Won the Super Cup & Club World Championship (both full detail).
@GeorgeFloydOverdosed Can you test :
-Acceleration 15
-Agility 10
-Balance 10
-Jumping Reach 13
-Natural fitness 10
-Pace 15
-Stamina 10
-Anticipation 10
-Concentration 10
-Determination 10
-Work rate 10
-Dribbling 10
other attributes 1
And for GK Agility 13 Reflexes 10 Aerial reach 13 other attributes 1
Kma said: @GeorgeFloydOverdosed Can you test :
-Acceleration 15
-Agility 10
-Balance 10
-Jumping Reach 13
-Natural fitness 10
-Pace 15
-Stamina 10
-Anticipation 10
-Concentration 10
-Determination 10
-Work rate 10
-Dribbling 10
other attributes 1
And for GK Agility 13 Reflexes 10 Aerial reach 13 other attributes 1
I would test that for you, except that I already know that would fail, not because of other attributes 1 (except for certain hiddens) but because of stamina 10 concentration 10. Wouldn't survive relegation.
GeorgeFloydOverdosed said: I would test that for you, except that I already know that would fail, not because of other attributes 1 (except for certain hiddens) but because of stamina 10 concentration 10. Wouldn't survive relegation.
So make it 13 for stamina and concentration and 13 for important hidden attributes
@GeorgeFloydOverdosed
Are the ratings on page 8 for all positions, or are they only focused on strikers?
BaZuKa said: @GeorgeFloydOverdosed
Are the ratings on page 8 for all positions, or are they only focused on strikers?
All positions
You need some players to have high jumping reach though