dzek said: First of all, I want to say that I am glad that we are discussing some issues other than tactics (and around them) here at FM-Arena.
I totally respect your opinion and I see no reason for someone to hate you because you have a different opinion but I want to emphasize some things. I will speak for myself and in no way represent the opinion of others in the community.
We need to understand from the start that SI, Activision etc are companies first and foremost and then anything else so in order to survive they need money. When a company officially announces to you that on a certain date they will release their new game with its new features, the excitement starts to grow among the fans around the game (see Rockstar and GTA VI). We all want to buy it and play countless hours for many reasons, someone because it escapes reality, someone because they had a dream of becoming a coach in real life and didn't, someone because they like football in general and so on.
The day of the game's release comes (you are full of excitement and looking forward to it) and you start your first save. During the game you notice that features that were advertised to you as being new/improved in the game are broken/incomplete or only half working and sometimes weird or even worse than before. What will you feel at that particular moment? Quite possibly badly but you'll keep playing. But when this has been happening for years? When every year you spend money to buy something that was promised and not delivered and worse yet not communicated to you in the first place? This paints a picture of a company that only cares about money and not their community, which in essence if it wasn't for all of us there would be no FM, but anyway let's skip that.
We get to the community thing where there are two categories of players. The casuals and the hardcores. Without the casuals the game(and the company) can survive because there are the obsessive hardcore players who will pay every year to get the new version. But without the hardcore gamers do you think any gaming company can survive in the competition? I'm afraid not. So then we who are not just casuals gamers and play the game for countless hours and know the game and its capabilities have some requirements. If that sounds toxic to you then you are entitled but know that thanks to hardcore gamers the game got here with all the upgrades it has had over the years through suggestions and discussions on the official forum and beyond.
I don't agree with not releasing updates but also with releasing one every week just to release one. The wiser thing is to put it out when and if they feel it's ready (i.e. as SI has been doing for the last three years). You know what the issue is? Communication. That's my complaint myself but I can say that they have improved quite a bit over the last few years. Just that. Anyway we look forward to the sequel then.
Thanks for reading! Expand
You seem to go into the game looking for issues. "Let me see if they finally fixed this". You could just try to enjoy the game for what it is. Or if it frustrates you so much, you know, not buy it or play it.
The casual-hardcore divide is also a classic. As if a casual's opinion is worth less. On top of that, based on the feedback so far majority of "hardcore" players enjoy the game a lot. There is a small minority dissecting every problem with the game and letting that dictate their enjoyment. Yes there are issues, SI is working to fix them, some will be fixed some not. I think SI is far more on top of it and better in communicating than 90%+ other companies. Most of the stuff that was promised is working to a reasonable degree, some need a few tweaks. A lot of times we read too much into the statements by developers and project our wishes into it ... and are then disappointed because those aren't fulfilled.
That is only true for the very best prospects from 15/16 years old with additional training from the start. If you buy an 18 year old wonderkid the effect of additional focus is close to 0, maybe 1 point overall and I'd argue that's pretty much nothing. It won't transform the player, in essence he's still the same player with maybe (big maybe) slight tweaks here or there.
5+ years of additional training for a single attribute point ... and not like it's coming free either, it's coming at the cost of other attributes. I'll need some hard data to convince me that it's not largely cosmetic.
I didn't say it's worthless. But people expect massive changes because of it and it is simply not true in practice. From my experience you can get maybe 1-2 additional points in the selected attributes over the course of whole career. If you are lucky. Some focuses work better than others, some I'd argue don't even work.
I feel like individual training is vastly overrated or rather people obsess with it way too much. The effects really aren't that large. You won't get someone with 6 positioning to 16 over the course of his career because of it. He'll naturally go from 6 to lets say 11 just with GK/SK training, and if you put him on individual training that involves positioning throughout his whole career you might get him to 12 or 13. All of these numbers apply for a guy from intake with great development and high potential. If you buy him at 18, develops less than ideally and/or just doesn't have elite potential you can easily half the numbers.
We should reward exploration, trying new ideas and taking risks, not posting 12 versions of a cookie cutter tactics so you can get a shiny badge for highest point average. There is enough competition as it is, there is even a HoF category.
Also I think what you guys suggest is too subjective and not really worth the effort and policing and would only cause bad blood. Most of us who regularly visit the site know who are the "innovators", "tweakers" etc. anyway or at least for me personally who is who.
ArsenalHighbury said: I have the smallest annual wage budget in the league, most expensive player is James ward prowse at £115,000 a week. Does database size play a factor? Think I heard somewere that if you have a massive database you’ll get less transfers because there’s so many other players to choose from? Expand
I'd say it's the other way round. If you have a small database it's kind of hard to sell or loan.
Gracolas said: What would be a good training schedule for non-professional clubs?
Im running this, but not sure if its the most effective:
Expand
It literally doesn't matter. Whatever your assistant puts up is fine, maybe some specific training before big matches that's it. You're not developing anyone training twice per week at 7/20 facilities.
It's possible you just hit a scoring slump. That maybe in some other part of the season you'd win 3 of those games 2-0, maybe opponent would win another one 1-0. Or you could have lost 3 of these games but somehow got lucky to draw them. There is so much variance in match results that yes such runs can happen, in fact should happen.
keithb said: Regarding loaning players out. They buffed devlopment for players loaned out to inactive leagues. And when it was last tested, 2-3 patched back but nothing in the recent patch notes to say its changed, the devlopment was significantly better than loaning out to teams in active leagues.
So for example if you dont have the Swiss, Austrian or Greek leagues active and one of their bigger clubs wants to loan your player this will be better than a team in an active league. Im sure there are some exceptions but this in general is better. I have used this method with the leagues I've mentioned along with Scandanavia and S Korea Expand
That's heavily assuming the loaded and non-loaded leagues are of same quality, which in most cases are not. The difference may be significant but not huge anyway. There are a lot of other factors I'd look for to choose the right loan before the loaded/not loaded "tiebreaker".
You can pick up a lot watching games and stats. I don't know what you are looking at for 10000 hours because you certainly can figure out how OP speed is, I did it over 20 years ago. We can argue it's sad that in all the years it hasn't changed.
Or more specific to FM23, finishing matters a lot for strikers. When you watch them play and you see the guy with 17 finishing scores way more than the guy with 12 even though he's better in some other attributes. May or may not be true in test environment, but every time I rotate similar strikers the one with better finishing scores more so I make a note that this is an important attribute. I can't really quantify it like a rigorous test but I can evaluate quite decently.
Tactically you maybe try tiki-taka and observe that while you have posession you don't do anything with it so you tweak it a bit and when it's still not better swap style. Until you stumble upon something that works reasonably well like gegenpress or vertical tiki-taka.
Effectively it's the same puzzle you are talking about except on a bigger scale. While you assume it all works and tweak last 2 buttons and are then shocked how they don't completely transform the game.
Again, loud minority. Most people never post anything, it's mostly the players that are annoyed by something. Making that forum very unrepresentative
I totally respect your opinion and I see no reason for someone to hate you because you have a different opinion but I want to emphasize some things. I will speak for myself and in no way represent the opinion of others in the community.
We need to understand from the start that SI, Activision etc are companies first and foremost and then anything else so in order to survive they need money. When a company officially announces to you that on a certain date they will release their new game with its new features, the excitement starts to grow among the fans around the game (see Rockstar and GTA VI). We all want to buy it and play countless hours for many reasons, someone because it escapes reality, someone because they had a dream of becoming a coach in real life and didn't, someone because they like football in general and so on.
The day of the game's release comes (you are full of excitement and looking forward to it) and you start your first save. During the game you notice that features that were advertised to you as being new/improved in the game are broken/incomplete or only half working and sometimes weird or even worse than before. What will you feel at that particular moment? Quite possibly badly but you'll keep playing. But when this has been happening for years? When every year you spend money to buy something that was promised and not delivered and worse yet not communicated to you in the first place? This paints a picture of a company that only cares about money and not their community, which in essence if it wasn't for all of us there would be no FM, but anyway let's skip that.
We get to the community thing where there are two categories of players. The casuals and the hardcores. Without the casuals the game(and the company) can survive because there are the obsessive hardcore players who will pay every year to get the new version. But without the hardcore gamers do you think any gaming company can survive in the competition? I'm afraid not. So then we who are not just casuals gamers and play the game for countless hours and know the game and its capabilities have some requirements. If that sounds toxic to you then you are entitled but know that thanks to hardcore gamers the game got here with all the upgrades it has had over the years through suggestions and discussions on the official forum and beyond.
I don't agree with not releasing updates but also with releasing one every week just to release one. The wiser thing is to put it out when and if they feel it's ready (i.e. as SI has been doing for the last three years). You know what the issue is? Communication. That's my complaint myself but I can say that they have improved quite a bit over the last few years. Just that. Anyway we look forward to the sequel then.
Thanks for reading!
You seem to go into the game looking for issues. "Let me see if they finally fixed this". You could just try to enjoy the game for what it is. Or if it frustrates you so much, you know, not buy it or play it.
The casual-hardcore divide is also a classic. As if a casual's opinion is worth less. On top of that, based on the feedback so far majority of "hardcore" players enjoy the game a lot. There is a small minority dissecting every problem with the game and letting that dictate their enjoyment. Yes there are issues, SI is working to fix them, some will be fixed some not. I think SI is far more on top of it and better in communicating than 90%+ other companies. Most of the stuff that was promised is working to a reasonable degree, some need a few tweaks. A lot of times we read too much into the statements by developers and project our wishes into it ... and are then disappointed because those aren't fulfilled.
Criticise them if they underperform. I usually get 2/3 of my team at 8+
Did we?
5+ years of additional training for a single attribute point ... and not like it's coming free either, it's coming at the cost of other attributes. I'll need some hard data to convince me that it's not largely cosmetic.
Also I think what you guys suggest is too subjective and not really worth the effort and policing and would only cause bad blood. Most of us who regularly visit the site know who are the "innovators", "tweakers" etc. anyway or at least for me personally who is who.
I'd say it's the other way round. If you have a small database it's kind of hard to sell or loan.
-the program might already deduct some points because of position rating, the drop off from DL to WBL is too big otherwise
-if you train and play him at left back he'll get to 20/20 for position
-not sure the % are transferable between positions, what I mean is 66% at LB might be relatively worse than 65% at CB
Im running this, but not sure if its the most effective:
It literally doesn't matter. Whatever your assistant puts up is fine, maybe some specific training before big matches that's it. You're not developing anyone training twice per week at 7/20 facilities.
So for example if you dont have the Swiss, Austrian or Greek leagues active and one of their bigger clubs wants to loan your player this will be better than a team in an active league. Im sure there are some exceptions but this in general is better. I have used this method with the leagues I've mentioned along with Scandanavia and S Korea
That's heavily assuming the loaded and non-loaded leagues are of same quality, which in most cases are not. The difference may be significant but not huge anyway. There are a lot of other factors I'd look for to choose the right loan before the loaded/not loaded "tiebreaker".
Or more specific to FM23, finishing matters a lot for strikers. When you watch them play and you see the guy with 17 finishing scores way more than the guy with 12 even though he's better in some other attributes. May or may not be true in test environment, but every time I rotate similar strikers the one with better finishing scores more so I make a note that this is an important attribute. I can't really quantify it like a rigorous test but I can evaluate quite decently.
Tactically you maybe try tiki-taka and observe that while you have posession you don't do anything with it so you tweak it a bit and when it's still not better swap style. Until you stumble upon something that works reasonably well like gegenpress or vertical tiki-taka.
Effectively it's the same puzzle you are talking about except on a bigger scale. While you assume it all works and tweak last 2 buttons and are then shocked how they don't completely transform the game.