Positional tests are much harder to do. For starters they require 10-100x more runs per single test to pick up the signal, on top of 10x because there are multiple positions. There is also a question of player roles potentially adding more runs needed. For example stamina on a WB(A) might be 3x more valuable than on a IFB(D) even though they technically play the same position. Alternatively it might be possible to keep the number of runs down if we can find other metrics to measure.
Additionally some attributes like jumping reach are relative. If the whole team has 8 JR, having a 17 JR winger might have a huge effect. Whereas in a team full of 17 JR players there might be no difference between a 8 or 17 JR winger
Zippo said: I forgot to mention that in this test we capped the max value of Jumping Reach to 17 instead of 20.
We did that because we were concerned that increasing Jumping Reach to 20 would create a very unrealistic environment, like gnomes play against giants, which might distress the result of the test by giving extra undeserved importance to the Jumping Reach attribute. Expand Could you make it a bit more visible in the first post, it's there but unless you read super carefully it's very easy to miss.
If we exclude obviously OP acceleration and pace, then jumping reach is still one of the best attributes. Lets not get carried away by how broken the first two are.
debelizec19 said: Dear @Yarema thank You very much for explaination. So it is very important to have rest and recovery as many as possible in 2 match week + at least one training(quickness/attacking/match p.)? Expand Some would argue you can put an entire week of rest when you have 2 games in the same week. I like to structure around it and still fit in 2-4 quality sessions and then fill the remaining slots with rest or recovery. I only put rest when I can do 3x rest in a single day preferably the day after the match, otherwise I put recovery.
Key thing is to keep your players fresh enough so they can actually play in both matches, no use destroying them with training to gain 1-2 more CA per season at the cost of results.
CBP87 said: beats offside trap for AF and IF, plays killer passes for AM and cuts inside for IF. I also make sure I had a left footed IF on the right hand side and a right footed IF on the left Expand
Honestly I find footedness is very individual. Some players perform better on same side as their dominant foot and some on the other. Haven't figured out a way to know other than simply playing them and noticing where they perform better.
What I'm comfortable saying is that it's certainly not the end of the world if you play a right footed player as IF on right. I feel it was much more of an issue in previous FMs.
debelizec19 said: Dear @keithb please can you explain what the trainig should look like for matches on tuesday and saturday(and other combinations) or give example? You mentiond that we need to be careful when we have matches on different days in week. So now I am little bit confused about training schedules on different days. I am using [Quickness]+[Match Practice]+[Attacking]+[Recovery]x7+[Double Intensity]+[Additional Focus Quickness]. Hope you understand what I am trying to understand Expand
Just put the most impactful sessions as far after the match as you can, at least 2 days away, maybe 1 if you can super rest. And then fill the other slots with recovery. It can vary a bit whether you are home or away for either of the two matches. The day after the match should always be either full rest if home or recovery if you are travelling.
For example you have matches on tuesday and saturday, and you value quickness session the most in your schedule, then put it on friday - that way you have 2 days of rest before and your whole team should be able to participate. And you can put for example attacking on thursday, some of the team might be too tired to participate (and that's OK) but majority should be fine.
Excellent stuff. Would it be possible to add some hidden attributes as well after the initial batch is done? Like weak foot, consistency, important matches and so on
Back playing FM after many years out. Playing console.
Wanting to use this tactic as it looks great and I think 1 up front and an additional midfielder would hopefully stop better teams running riot vs say a 2 striker tactic. Would you agree?
Also, the injuries seem to be insane in FM24, I seem to pick up 2 or 3 a week minimum. If I didn't use attacking mentality and didn't tackle harder, would this tactic still be effective or is it reliant on those aspects?
Final questions - is there any way to turn injuries down? Or just built into game this way? And can you recommend any wonderkids to play in this tactic? I'm managing Sunderland, have some good young players but almost no transfer or wage budget to sign anyone. So budget player recommendations appreciated.
Thanks Expand
Key to less injuries is to give your players plenty of rest after the games, either through "Rest" settings in training tab or manually after each game.
@harvestgreen22 if you put (or keep) a person with 20 acceleration and 20 pace on quickness additional focus, will it decrease overall CA growth because some of it would be wasted here? In theory it shouldn't, but this is SI
I ask mainly because with strength additional focus you sometimes get the message from assistant that no amount of training will increase jumping reach anymore which would negate half of the benefit of such training.
Under Given the conditions, For training facilities, Level 10 has 97.4% of the effect of "training facility 20 ", Level 5 has 92.1% of the effect, and Level 1 has 86.5% of the effect.
So a club with a level 10 training facility is basically growing at full speed
Not Under given conditions (such as changes in Age and other things) may change result, but here only give roughly conclusion to save time
Under Given the conditions, In terms of the number of match played, 97.4% participated in 100 games in 30 games per season, 88.4% in 20 games, 80.6% in 15 games, and 65.9% in 0 games
About 25 games is enough for 95% grow.
league reputation: 50,100,150,200 reputation makes no difference, the conclusion is that league reputation does not affect growth
Under Given the conditions, Ambition: take Ambition 10 for the standard 100% effect, Ambition 1 has 73.1% effect, Ambition 20 has 104.9% effect Ambition below 10 loses growth, ambition above 10 has relatively little impact
Under Given the conditions, Determination: take Determination 10 for the standard 100% effect, Determination 1 has 66% effect, Determination 20 has 101% effect
Determination below 10 will lose more growth, Determination above 10 have almost no effect
Height:
1. Height and Jumping reach, both independently have a positive effect on the performance of players on the match.
2. Height greatly affects the CA Upper limit (Attributes that cannot be assigned to Jumping reach are assigned to other attributes) that can be allocated for Jumping reach growth per season. In other words, the higher the height, the faster the Jumping reach can growth
3. No matter what height it is, Jumping reach can grow to 20. But the taller you are, the faster Jumping reach grow
Interesting that league reputation has no effect on growth. I guess in testing scenario that could be the case but I'm pretty sure that CA is limited in a league with bad reputation - for example a 200 PA player might only be able to grow up to 150 CA in a mediocre league.
animatron said: This shows that by far [Rest]+[Double Intensity]+[Addtional Focus Quickness] is the best training for Players under 19 (not including 19). Thank you for sharing this Expand
Does it? I feel people seriously underestimate the power of CA growth for young players. Your 85 CA 18 year old physical freaks will not get any decent loans, you'll have to keep them at the club costing their further growth because of lack of competitive game time plus you'll want to guide their development. I find that it is unnecessary to cap CA growth, you can reach 20 pace and acceleration on "normal" schedules from these tests.
Thanks for the tests. Glad to see most stuff I value in a GK is near the top of the list. The big surprise for me is vision, still not sure why it performs so well. I guess pace being that high instead of acceleration is also unexpected.
mcqueenhaffarguzz said: i have seen countless different threads with different schedueles and im wondering what the current meta is, i have tried a couple but it seems like everytime i try them my players barely grow at all. if you have a schedule please also include rest and individual! Expand
Go through the testing results and pick something you like. There is no definitive answer and it depends on your preferences. Most of the schedules are very close together so it really doesn't matter which one you pick.
Rest settings and individual training have also been stated in the original posts.
Gianaa9 said: Tbh i'm pretty happy that with this new feature people could realize that even a point of difference (which could look huge on the table) means pretty the same win rate, and that tactics with a pretty low score can even have only 5% less of win rate. I think we were getting too much involved in trying to reach an high score, forgetting that we should just find tactic with a good win rate. I think that now people managing teams with suitable players for non-top tactic could be more encouraged to choose different tactics from usual seeing that the win rate difference is so small. Expand Considering the table is standardized for 38 match season for years now the win% was "there" the whole time, just no one bothered to calculate it or rather post about it. In fact it's not even win% but % of points. Additionally the % has no meaning outside of the testing league.
Maybe it conveys more clearly how close the tactics are but anyone paying attention knows that tactics within a point or two are very comparable anyway, within the margin of error.
I think people get way too hung up on terms like "realistic" or "simulation". It's our expectations that are probably way too high. In the end it's a game with it's benefits and flaws. Obviously it can't function as real life, most things have to be dumbed down so you can actually put it into code. And just like any game there are things that translate better and some worse, some stuff sort of gets dragged with minimal changes for year or decades, as in any game there are cookie cutter builds/tactics, certain ways of playing more successful than others ... On top of that the game is intentionally beatable, meaning an average player can have success within reasonable timeframe (=way way shorter than in real life).
So maybe if we started treating it as a game and just that, there would probably be a lot less of these types of frustrations. It's still the best football management game ever by far and it doesn't look like that is about to change very soon.
Alternatively it might be possible to keep the number of runs down if we can find other metrics to measure.
Additionally some attributes like jumping reach are relative. If the whole team has 8 JR, having a 17 JR winger might have a huge effect. Whereas in a team full of 17 JR players there might be no difference between a 8 or 17 JR winger
We did that because we were concerned that increasing Jumping Reach to 20 would create a very unrealistic environment, like gnomes play against giants, which might distress the result of the test by giving extra undeserved importance to the Jumping Reach attribute.
Could you make it a bit more visible in the first post, it's there but unless you read super carefully it's very easy to miss.
Some would argue you can put an entire week of rest when you have 2 games in the same week. I like to structure around it and still fit in 2-4 quality sessions and then fill the remaining slots with rest or recovery. I only put rest when I can do 3x rest in a single day preferably the day after the match, otherwise I put recovery.
Key thing is to keep your players fresh enough so they can actually play in both matches, no use destroying them with training to gain 1-2 more CA per season at the cost of results.
Honestly I find footedness is very individual. Some players perform better on same side as their dominant foot and some on the other. Haven't figured out a way to know other than simply playing them and noticing where they perform better.
What I'm comfortable saying is that it's certainly not the end of the world if you play a right footed player as IF on right. I feel it was much more of an issue in previous FMs.
Just put the most impactful sessions as far after the match as you can, at least 2 days away, maybe 1 if you can super rest. And then fill the other slots with recovery. It can vary a bit whether you are home or away for either of the two matches. The day after the match should always be either full rest if home or recovery if you are travelling.
For example you have matches on tuesday and saturday, and you value quickness session the most in your schedule, then put it on friday - that way you have 2 days of rest before and your whole team should be able to participate. And you can put for example attacking on thursday, some of the team might be too tired to participate (and that's OK) but majority should be fine.
Back playing FM after many years out. Playing console.
Wanting to use this tactic as it looks great and I think 1 up front and an additional midfielder would hopefully stop better teams running riot vs say a 2 striker tactic. Would you agree?
Also, the injuries seem to be insane in FM24, I seem to pick up 2 or 3 a week minimum. If I didn't use attacking mentality and didn't tackle harder, would this tactic still be effective or is it reliant on those aspects?
Final questions - is there any way to turn injuries down? Or just built into game this way? And can you recommend any wonderkids to play in this tactic? I'm managing Sunderland, have some good young players but almost no transfer or wage budget to sign anyone. So budget player recommendations appreciated.
Thanks
Key to less injuries is to give your players plenty of rest after the games, either through "Rest" settings in training tab or manually after each game.
I ask mainly because with strength additional focus you sometimes get the message from assistant that no amount of training will increase jumping reach anymore which would negate half of the benefit of such training.
Under Given the conditions,
For training facilities, Level 10 has 97.4% of the effect of "training facility 20 ", Level 5 has 92.1% of the effect, and Level 1 has 86.5% of the effect.
So a club with a level 10 training facility is basically growing at full speed
Not Under given conditions (such as changes in Age and other things) may change result, but here only give roughly conclusion to save time
Under Given the conditions,
In terms of the number of match played, 97.4% participated in 100 games in 30 games per season, 88.4% in 20 games, 80.6% in 15 games, and 65.9% in 0 games
About 25 games is enough for 95% grow.
league reputation: 50,100,150,200 reputation makes no difference, the conclusion is that league reputation does not affect growth
Under Given the conditions,
Ambition: take Ambition 10 for the standard 100% effect, Ambition 1 has 73.1% effect, Ambition 20 has 104.9% effect
Ambition below 10 loses growth, ambition above 10 has relatively little impact
Under Given the conditions,
Determination: take Determination 10 for the standard 100% effect, Determination 1 has 66% effect, Determination 20 has 101% effect
Determination below 10 will lose more growth, Determination above 10 have almost no effect
Height:
1. Height and Jumping reach, both independently have a positive effect on the performance of players on the match.
2. Height greatly affects the CA Upper limit (Attributes that cannot be assigned to Jumping reach are assigned to other attributes) that can be allocated for Jumping reach growth per season.
In other words, the higher the height, the faster the Jumping reach can growth
3. No matter what height it is, Jumping reach can grow to 20. But the taller you are, the faster Jumping reach grow
Excel data : Training English 9.xlsx
https://pixeldrain.com/u/F5PXgZ7y
edit:
Professionalism 1、10、20
Professionalism 1、5、10、15、20
Interesting that league reputation has no effect on growth. I guess in testing scenario that could be the case but I'm pretty sure that CA is limited in a league with bad reputation - for example a 200 PA player might only be able to grow up to 150 CA in a mediocre league.
Do different attributes have a different cost in CA?
Does CA cost of each attribute depend on player's position (natural position?)?
Yes, yes and yes
More or less the 2nd one tested here with occasional modifications
Does it? I feel people seriously underestimate the power of CA growth for young players. Your 85 CA 18 year old physical freaks will not get any decent loans, you'll have to keep them at the club costing their further growth because of lack of competitive game time plus you'll want to guide their development. I find that it is unnecessary to cap CA growth, you can reach 20 pace and acceleration on "normal" schedules from these tests.
if you have a schedule please also include rest and individual!
Go through the testing results and pick something you like. There is no definitive answer and it depends on your preferences. Most of the schedules are very close together so it really doesn't matter which one you pick.
Rest settings and individual training have also been stated in the original posts.
Considering the table is standardized for 38 match season for years now the win% was "there" the whole time, just no one bothered to calculate it or rather post about it. In fact it's not even win% but % of points. Additionally the % has no meaning outside of the testing league.
Maybe it conveys more clearly how close the tactics are but anyone paying attention knows that tactics within a point or two are very comparable anyway, within the margin of error.
So maybe if we started treating it as a game and just that, there would probably be a lot less of these types of frustrations. It's still the best football management game ever by far and it doesn't look like that is about to change very soon.