keithb said: Regarding loaning players out. They buffed devlopment for players loaned out to inactive leagues. And when it was last tested, 2-3 patched back but nothing in the recent patch notes to say its changed, the devlopment was significantly better than loaning out to teams in active leagues.
So for example if you dont have the Swiss, Austrian or Greek leagues active and one of their bigger clubs wants to loan your player this will be better than a team in an active league. Im sure there are some exceptions but this in general is better. I have used this method with the leagues I've mentioned along with Scandanavia and S Korea Expand
That's heavily assuming the loaded and non-loaded leagues are of same quality, which in most cases are not. The difference may be significant but not huge anyway. There are a lot of other factors I'd look for to choose the right loan before the loaded/not loaded "tiebreaker".
You can pick up a lot watching games and stats. I don't know what you are looking at for 10000 hours because you certainly can figure out how OP speed is, I did it over 20 years ago. We can argue it's sad that in all the years it hasn't changed.
Or more specific to FM23, finishing matters a lot for strikers. When you watch them play and you see the guy with 17 finishing scores way more than the guy with 12 even though he's better in some other attributes. May or may not be true in test environment, but every time I rotate similar strikers the one with better finishing scores more so I make a note that this is an important attribute. I can't really quantify it like a rigorous test but I can evaluate quite decently.
Tactically you maybe try tiki-taka and observe that while you have posession you don't do anything with it so you tweak it a bit and when it's still not better swap style. Until you stumble upon something that works reasonably well like gegenpress or vertical tiki-taka.
Effectively it's the same puzzle you are talking about except on a bigger scale. While you assume it all works and tweak last 2 buttons and are then shocked how they don't completely transform the game.
Those styles aren't equal IRL either. I have absolutely no issue with route one scoring badly for example. It's actually not a problem of the preset tactic, rather that the whole concept doesn't work well in the engine.
To me point of the game is to experiment a bit what works. Not sure when people became so afraid of it. Nowadays everyone wants optimal build and guide from the first minute they start the game, any game. You can enter FM with certain preferences, maybe you like 433, maybe 5221... try stuff out, see what works yourself - for example that gegenpress just plain performs better than anything else, that faster players generally perform better and so on. Once you actually know exactly what works best the game is fairly simple and you need additional challenges on top to make it challenging.
Honestly if you pick a preset gegenpress and change a couple of roles, add proper corner routine you have a pretty good tactic on your hands. Much better than what most people create themselves.
Yes some styles are bad, those could be better. Some roles used are also far from optimal. And well default set piece is terrible although much more realistic in terms of numbers to real life.
I think the preset tactics are a decent starting point to use and tweak. Obviously they keep it simple and don't "exploit" the engine like the ones tested here.
Surely there are traits that aren't available as PI. Like shooting traits (shoots with power, places shots, lobs keeper...), passing traits (dictates tempo, switches ball to the flank), dribbling traits (knocks the ball past his opponent) and probably various others
Chriswin4 said: I don't fully trust the system ZAZ uses though, where he puts training intensity on none aside from the full green heart. Surely that limits development. Expand
On the other hand anyone that didn't play in a match is training fully the next day, most other schedules have some recovery or rest the day after for the whole squad not only those that played. Also in fixture congestion it's common practice to give first 11 a couple of days of rest. The settings merely automate this process so I don't have to do it all the time.
Not saying it's necessarily the best, but I like the simplicity of it and how it reduces the amount of things I have to handle or pay attention to.
I think most of the schedules out there do a similar job. My personal preference is the ZaZ concept, saves me time since I don't have to manually rest players in fixture congestion. And there is no dilemma which sessions to skip when you have less slots available in a week because of matches or travel.
You can use a tactic and put your own set piece routines in. Only changing the "target man" won't fix anything unless whoever you are targeting is terrible in the air.
I'm thinking of progression of meta tactics. At start it was like you need 2 DM or you are leaking goals. Then it was OK you need 1, but like a BWM/DM/DLP on defend duty. And now we are down to 1 kinda DM, who is maybe not always there. I find it interesting.
Delicious said: Because some of them reported me that players were literally dying at min 65, that's why i am asking, i didn't really test it my self. If i have news about that will bring them to you asap Expand
I don't think that has anything to do with the training. Feels like they tuned something in the update to make players tire more quickly in matches, like 10-15% maybe. Probably more realistic if I'm honest, if you are pressing whole 90 mins it should show. With timely substitutions it can be largely mitigated.
Reason why I think it's not training is that they enter the games in full condition. It's not like a day before the match they were fine and then that training day completely ruined them. Tiredness is left over from the previous match, if they aren't fit they aren't training anyway - that's the beauty and simplicity of it.
In the end this is a game, not a simulation. And I think some things are coded to provide some sort of reward. Most saves end within 5 or 6 seasons, you can't make a game that would only pay you off in year 20, very few will reach it. So it makes sense you can (with some skill) outplay the AI. Progress has to be challenging but reachable and if you are really experienced that reachable becomes almost guaranteed.
Sure some of the decisions could be better, but we are also actively trying to exploit any flaws. For example unlike real life you get a pretty good idea of young players potential, even exact if you look at PA and other hidden attributes. It's also fairly easy to develop young players (as a human manager, AI could really use an upgrade here), they are rarely flops and even then you can still probably sell for profit. All of it leading to the "common knowledge of how to play the game" which is actually just exploiting what the AI is bad at to get ahead. If it did this well and for example undervalued older still good players then the meta strategy would be to buy those. Gamers will always find the optimal way to progress through the game and then complain it's not challenging enough.
Yes they nerfed it somewhat. Although if you have a dominant player in the air (CB or ST) it's still pretty good, just not broken ... until someone finds a new broken routine
Honestly mine is still scoring, probably same or even more than before. Capitalising on every mistake the defenders make.
The type of goals he scores have changed, more low to midheight crosses that end with a successful shot on target, more scrappy balls inside the area that he can pounce on, deflections etc.
CMs tend to get in better positions now and are more effective. Their build up play also looks better.
Overall still an exciting as effective tactic to use, but I would like it a bit closer to some other formations. Perhaps with some tweaks it can get there.
So for example if you dont have the Swiss, Austrian or Greek leagues active and one of their bigger clubs wants to loan your player this will be better than a team in an active league. Im sure there are some exceptions but this in general is better. I have used this method with the leagues I've mentioned along with Scandanavia and S Korea
That's heavily assuming the loaded and non-loaded leagues are of same quality, which in most cases are not. The difference may be significant but not huge anyway. There are a lot of other factors I'd look for to choose the right loan before the loaded/not loaded "tiebreaker".
Or more specific to FM23, finishing matters a lot for strikers. When you watch them play and you see the guy with 17 finishing scores way more than the guy with 12 even though he's better in some other attributes. May or may not be true in test environment, but every time I rotate similar strikers the one with better finishing scores more so I make a note that this is an important attribute. I can't really quantify it like a rigorous test but I can evaluate quite decently.
Tactically you maybe try tiki-taka and observe that while you have posession you don't do anything with it so you tweak it a bit and when it's still not better swap style. Until you stumble upon something that works reasonably well like gegenpress or vertical tiki-taka.
Effectively it's the same puzzle you are talking about except on a bigger scale. While you assume it all works and tweak last 2 buttons and are then shocked how they don't completely transform the game.
To me point of the game is to experiment a bit what works. Not sure when people became so afraid of it. Nowadays everyone wants optimal build and guide from the first minute they start the game, any game.
You can enter FM with certain preferences, maybe you like 433, maybe 5221... try stuff out, see what works yourself - for example that gegenpress just plain performs better than anything else, that faster players generally perform better and so on. Once you actually know exactly what works best the game is fairly simple and you need additional challenges on top to make it challenging.
Yes some styles are bad, those could be better. Some roles used are also far from optimal. And well default set piece is terrible although much more realistic in terms of numbers to real life.
I think the preset tactics are a decent starting point to use and tweak. Obviously they keep it simple and don't "exploit" the engine like the ones tested here.
On the other hand anyone that didn't play in a match is training fully the next day, most other schedules have some recovery or rest the day after for the whole squad not only those that played. Also in fixture congestion it's common practice to give first 11 a couple of days of rest. The settings merely automate this process so I don't have to do it all the time.
Not saying it's necessarily the best, but I like the simplicity of it and how it reduces the amount of things I have to handle or pay attention to.
I don't think that has anything to do with the training. Feels like they tuned something in the update to make players tire more quickly in matches, like 10-15% maybe. Probably more realistic if I'm honest, if you are pressing whole 90 mins it should show. With timely substitutions it can be largely mitigated.
Reason why I think it's not training is that they enter the games in full condition. It's not like a day before the match they were fine and then that training day completely ruined them. Tiredness is left over from the previous match, if they aren't fit they aren't training anyway - that's the beauty and simplicity of it.
Sure some of the decisions could be better, but we are also actively trying to exploit any flaws. For example unlike real life you get a pretty good idea of young players potential, even exact if you look at PA and other hidden attributes. It's also fairly easy to develop young players (as a human manager, AI could really use an upgrade here), they are rarely flops and even then you can still probably sell for profit. All of it leading to the "common knowledge of how to play the game" which is actually just exploiting what the AI is bad at to get ahead. If it did this well and for example undervalued older still good players then the meta strategy would be to buy those. Gamers will always find the optimal way to progress through the game and then complain it's not challenging enough.
Have we even see much testing on strikerless since update? Some people say it's much stronger now.
The type of goals he scores have changed, more low to midheight crosses that end with a successful shot on target, more scrappy balls inside the area that he can pounce on, deflections etc.
CMs tend to get in better positions now and are more effective. Their build up play also looks better.
Overall still an exciting as effective tactic to use, but I would like it a bit closer to some other formations. Perhaps with some tweaks it can get there.