37 outfield attributes were tested at absolute in-game levels 4, 8, 12, 16, and 20.
In each condition, one attribute was set to the selected level for all 20 Dijon matchday players (starters and substitutes). The Lens, tactics, lineup, all other attributes, and fixture settings were held constant.
Each condition and the unchanged baseline used the same 500 paired seeds (1-500), for 93,000 simulated matches in total.
Excluded attributes: Left Foot, Right Foot, Corners, Penalty Taking, Long Throws, and Free Kicks.
The outcome is the change in Dijon's goal difference relative to the unchanged baseline. Positive values favor Dijon; negative values favor Lens. A positive change in goals conceded means Dijon conceded more.
LightningFlik said: Right, have at it: v1.0.0. Let me know how you get on and I'll try to iron out any bugs as they're reported. After a few days, I'll shout louder about this but you can be my guinea pigs for now. Expand
LightningFlik said: This should be extremely conducive to experiments via LLM, if you're inclined. To test, I pointed free Copilot at the repo locally and told it to test what happens to the results if each attribute across the entire team is lowered by 5. I know it basically replicates what many other tactic testing experiment has already done but this only took two hours once it started. You could tell an LLM to get a lot more creative with it and it takes no effort on your part once it's begun.
GeorgeFloydOverdosed said: - Generally speaking, '20' pace is worth no more than '18' pace in the Premier League. If you have 18, you win all games. If you have 20, you win all games. - I have tested every such threshold. As you can see with the GKs above, '18' concentration shows negligible benefit compared to '13'. With some attributes, such as dribbling, it's generally the higher the better (linear). With Aerial Reach, it has a concrete minimum ('14' ) but quickly diminishing returns above that minimum. - If I weight attribute X at '15', that does not mean it is weighted to get 5th. It is weighted to get 1st so long as the cost is not too great. In the end, only a few attributes are weighted below 1st. These are: pace, acc, jump, drib and perhaps another I have forgotten. - If you say 'well let's boost pace, acc, jump, drib to 100 weighting!' then you would end up with key technical and mentals falling out of favor, and the whole optimized structure falling apart. It is more important to get 12 concentration instead of 11 concentration, than 17 pace instead of 16 pace. Obviously this gets too complicated to fully think out, but I have a hunch it's why my 'weighted weightings' did worse than the standard weightings in my comparison test, and hence why it's given me current pause for thought on the matter. - If you say 'to hell with the 'structure'! give me copious amounts of pace, acc, jump and drib at 100 with some passing/tackling slop on top and be done with it.. keithb, give me your ratings file!', then you end up with bloated players on top of the list that fall short in some key regard. Expand
If thresholds are more important why not use filters instead?
ATTRIBUTE-LEVEL RESPONSE IN FM24: DIJON VS LENS
EXPERIMENTAL SETUP
37 outfield attributes were tested at absolute in-game levels 4, 8, 12, 16, and 20.
In each condition, one attribute was set to the selected level for all 20 Dijon matchday players (starters and substitutes). The Lens, tactics, lineup, all other attributes, and fixture settings were held constant.
Each condition and the unchanged baseline used the same 500 paired seeds (1-500), for 93,000 simulated matches in total.
Excluded attributes: Left Foot, Right Foot, Corners, Penalty Taking, Long Throws, and Free Kicks.
The outcome is the change in Dijon's goal difference relative to the unchanged baseline. Positive values favor Dijon; negative values favor Lens. A positive change in goals conceded means Dijon conceded more.
MEAN RESPONSE ACROSS THE FIVE LEVELS
Attribute / Level 4 / Level 8 / Level 12 / Level 16 / Level 20 / Best Observed Level / Range (Max-Min)
Pace: -2.984 / -1.608 / -0.736 / -0.074 / +0.614 / Best: 20 / Range: 3.598
Acceleration: -2.496 / -1.430 / -0.522 / +0.214 / +0.726 / Best: 20 / Range: 3.222
Work Rate: -0.874 / -0.090 / +0.182 / +0.254 / +0.302 / Best: 20 / Range: 1.176
Agility: -0.538 / -0.246 / +0.054 / +0.164 / +0.388 / Best: 20 / Range: 0.926
Dribbling: -0.126 / +0.006 / +0.266 / +0.498 / +0.762 / Best: 20 / Range: 0.888
Jumping Reach: -0.292 / -0.256 / -0.028 / +0.250 / +0.596 / Best: 20 / Range: 0.888
Concentration: -0.304 / +0.008 / +0.190 / +0.282 / +0.476 / Best: 20 / Range: 0.780
Balance: -0.328 / -0.108 / +0.060 / -0.002 / +0.360 / Best: 20 / Range: 0.688
Stamina: -0.314 / -0.102 / -0.048 / +0.030 / +0.260 / Best: 20 / Range: 0.574
Anticipation: -0.278 / -0.074 / +0.068 / +0.216 / +0.268 / Best: 20 / Range: 0.546
Finishing: +0.104 / -0.142 / +0.036 / +0.360 / +0.392 / Best: 20 / Range: 0.534
Strength: -0.102 / +0.048 / +0.138 / +0.166 / +0.370 / Best: 20 / Range: 0.472
Important Matches: -0.054 / +0.034 / -0.028 / +0.294 / +0.396 / Best: 20 / Range: 0.450
Dirtiness: -0.018 / +0.114 / -0.092 / -0.096 / -0.294 / Best: 8 / Range: 0.408
Composure: -0.096 / +0.036 / +0.218 / +0.216 / +0.306 / Best: 20 / Range: 0.402
Determination: -0.182 / +0.034 / -0.060 / +0.198 / +0.104 / Best: 16 / Range: 0.380
Crossing: -0.080 / +0.076 / +0.160 / +0.288 / +0.244 / Best: 16 / Range: 0.368
Decisions: +0.190 / -0.096 / +0.054 / +0.254 / +0.178 / Best: 16 / Range: 0.350
Long Shots: -0.084 / +0.086 / +0.036 / +0.056 / +0.250 / Best: 20 / Range: 0.334
Consistency: +0.000 / +0.024 / +0.080 / +0.224 / +0.276 / Best: 20 / Range: 0.276
Heading: -0.014 / +0.128 / +0.034 / +0.144 / +0.238 / Best: 20 / Range: 0.252
Vision: -0.014 / -0.086 / +0.104 / +0.054 / +0.162 / Best: 20 / Range: 0.248
Teamwork: -0.062 / +0.042 / +0.060 / -0.026 / +0.150 / Best: 20 / Range: 0.212
Aggression: +0.094 / +0.056 / -0.044 / +0.042 / +0.148 / Best: 20 / Range: 0.192
Flair: +0.106 / +0.120 / +0.024 / -0.068 / +0.118 / Best: 8 / Range: 0.188
Marking: -0.008 / +0.088 / +0.118 / +0.132 / +0.178 / Best: 20 / Range: 0.186
Positioning: -0.014 / +0.032 / +0.024 / +0.058 / +0.156 / Best: 20 / Range: 0.170
Technique: +0.130 / +0.018 / +0.064 / +0.112 / +0.188 / Best: 20 / Range: 0.170
Leadership: -0.020 / +0.004 / +0.058 / -0.042 / +0.128 / Best: 20 / Range: 0.170
First Touch: -0.038 / +0.072 / +0.112 / +0.090 / -0.002 / Best: 12 / Range: 0.150
Injury Proneness: -0.010 / -0.006 / +0.088 / +0.114 / +0.010 / Best: 16 / Range: 0.124
Passing: +0.050 / +0.096 / +0.136 / +0.148 / +0.154 / Best: 20 / Range: 0.104
Bravery: +0.022 / +0.056 / +0.084 / +0.114 / +0.048 / Best: 16 / Range: 0.092
Off the Ball: +0.164 / +0.094 / +0.184 / +0.100 / +0.176 / Best: 12 / Range: 0.090
Tackling: +0.062 / +0.110 / +0.020 / +0.038 / +0.102 / Best: 8 / Range: 0.090
Versatility: -0.044 / +0.018 / -0.016 / +0.002 / +0.000 / Best: 8 / Range: 0.062
Natural Fitness: +0.000 / +0.000 / +0.000 / +0.000 / +0.000 / Best: 4 / Range: 0.000
This test shows that some attributes are indeed non-linear
This is great, thanks
Results
Very intriguing, can't wait for the release
- I have tested every such threshold. As you can see with the GKs above, '18' concentration shows negligible benefit compared to '13'. With some attributes, such as dribbling, it's generally the higher the better (linear). With Aerial Reach, it has a concrete minimum ('14' ) but quickly diminishing returns above that minimum.
- If I weight attribute X at '15', that does not mean it is weighted to get 5th. It is weighted to get 1st so long as the cost is not too great. In the end, only a few attributes are weighted below 1st. These are: pace, acc, jump, drib and perhaps another I have forgotten.
- If you say 'well let's boost pace, acc, jump, drib to 100 weighting!' then you would end up with key technical and mentals falling out of favor, and the whole optimized structure falling apart. It is more important to get 12 concentration instead of 11 concentration, than 17 pace instead of 16 pace. Obviously this gets too complicated to fully think out, but I have a hunch it's why my 'weighted weightings' did worse than the standard weightings in my comparison test, and hence why it's given me current pause for thought on the matter.
- If you say 'to hell with the 'structure'! give me copious amounts of pace, acc, jump and drib at 100 with some passing/tackling slop on top and be done with it.. keithb, give me your ratings file!', then you end up with bloated players on top of the list that fall short in some key regard.
If thresholds are more important why not use filters instead?
https://fm-arena.com/thread/9963-fm-arena-tactic-testing-league-has-been-updated/
Not a fact.
MDW24 rating says Ergin is better. Anyone know why?
No clue, he's clearly worse.