@Zealot could you do just like zaz cyan , make this tactic but with all on ease of tackles instead of tackle harder , so we can see the difference ? For zaz cyan it made 0 difference on performance , but huge stamina saver
Actually, it's highly rated. The rating of this tactic is 5.4 rating when the highest rated tactic is 6.0 so there's only about 9.8% between them and I find such difference is quite small.
Btw, there's like a 1.5% difference between a 5.9 tactic and a 6.0 tactic and like a 3% difference between a 5.8 tactic and a 6.0 tactic.
If someone beats 6.0 rating gets 6.1 rating then he only improves the performance for about 1.5% Expand
going from 5.4 to 6.0 is 11% increase which could translate to 8 points difference easily in a 38 game league. ( 80 points divided by 5.4, multiplied by 6 ) These 8 points can be HUGE for a title race.
from 5.8 to 6 is 3,4% gain which can be 2-3 points difference, when chasing for the title in super strong competitions this isnt bad ( granted difference is much less than the previous example )
Every 1% gain is close to a full point on average , so I would love to get a 6.5 tactic somehow working here
Milakus said: That's why many people say that the key to success in FM is a proper team rotation and a deep bench Expand
Been doing that ever since gegenpress was a thing when managing good teams. Gegenpressing just hits you hard when you don’t rotate because your squad depth isn’t enough , usually when you climbing the leagues and you don’t have two equal teams and or players with very high stam / natural fitness.
Considering you have 25 players in some competitions it means 2 whole squads then one extra who can play the whole line to make it 25
Markizio said: Just look at the stats. Not only the scored goals per match has dropped but the conceded goals per match has increased too which means a low Jumping Reach is a bad thing for the defense in general. Expand
And how does this surprise you when it’s marked as an important attribute for the CB position ? General rule of thumb is to get the green attributes for the role to be 15-16+ if you operate at high level
Tsubasa said: It came out that Jumping Reach is a quite important attribute, especially, for Central Defenders, Fullbacks and Central/Defensive Midfielders
Where do you get the backs and DM part from ? You score 0,2 per match less which is about 8 goals per season and you get scored against 0,2 per match which is also about 8 per season. This is imo almost all due to corners not being scored or defended. Main goal scorers are your 2 cbs just like they are the main source to stop it ( although this is a bit tricky as the cpu doesn’t use same corner tactic so his strong headers could be in the back as well )
Problem is though pace / acc are more important and it’s already known that all the TOP cbs have 15+ speed AND 16+ jumping. My advice for those on a tight budget is to get one fast cb and one who can jump really high , same with strikers so you still have your 2 strong headers for the corner routine
CBP87 said: So you've used an editor to freeze fitness and morale, you've also added players like Werner, Saka, James and Rafa (I think)
Any chance you can test without cheating?? Expand
Feeezing morale and fitness is how the testing league works as well ? I’m more bothered by not being able to read shit , is it a rule, or can it be made one , to post screenshots in English ? I mean how hard is it if you are the authentic author to just switch to English , make the screenshots , then go back .
As I can’t read most of it , I don’t know what to think of this , it looks strong and catching the ME off guard with something
I too thought of this idea , you can make a match plan as well to adjust tactics in certain situations ( like when 3 ahead ) to conserve energy. I don’t like it that my 17 stamina CM-A always is red health at 70-80 mins fe. Don’t know how to implement this on a holiday save though as I cba testing it playing it myself all the time.
Very nice , kind hard to find a very good cm-a though isn’t it ? needs a lot of stats compared to fe AF ( needs same except god like stamina , long shots and either corners or free kicks, better passing and vision ).
Tried sloboszai fe but he didn’t make the cut cause of low stamina you have to sub him every game after 60 mins
Im not the original creator of this tactic, its zaz orange with a tweak to it. ( one volante one line back to make it a back 5 and use 2 WCB and 1 BDP instead of 2 BPD, the other volante becomes an anchor man )
Next thing to test is using this tactic with FB / WB as it feels the centre is getting a bit crowded now
Kyle said: I can understand it probably has an effect on development, but curious about specifically performance. I personally never setup general training and honestly with the way gegenpress works now I just send my players on rest between games which seems to avoid injuries (most seem to happen in training) and doesn't seem to have an effect on the teams performance. I'm curious if this has ever been tested or if anyone knows either way. Expand
I have two teams as well since the moment gegenpress became a thing in FM as since fatigue plays such a major role ( as chewie said above me ). Often your B team at full fitness will perform better than your A team with 90% fitness levels , despite being 10-15 CA lower.
I hate this since I *feel* this is one of the reasons my player never seem to improve on consistency, ever. ( yes I know its suppose to grow only by little margins, but when I go back 5 years into my save and the consistency is still the same as it is now, it feels off )
About training being of help : Despite using ZaZ training routine last year, I rarely saw players over the age of 20 gain any pace / acceleration, so im not sure how much they will actually help in development - would love to be proven wrong here.
It defenitely helps on the match preparation part and practice match is generally a good training session to include imo as it just improves everything.
Lastly, its a huge source for team cohesion which can take more than a year to fix even with massive amount of training into it and imo is just a big of a button to tweak as the condition / morale is.
Had a go with it with Man C ( with the suggestion above of mine to play 5 at the back with 2 WCB ) and Norwich ( normal tactic ) . Will post SS later, Man C had goal difference 110, 150 scored, Norwich ended 4th which obv is good.
I’m having a cold right now ( no corona ) but I smell sarcasm 😂
Again I really agree with the general thought you are saying , just curious myself to find break points where things go to shit ( -4 pace ) or where things break into being OP ( 18 pace attackers ? ) vs the cost of it on the CA budget.
I’ll think things over and if I can test it such with a league I’ll gladly share the results with you
Decreasing Pace by 4 points reduces the performance about 36% so it's about 9% for a 1 point decrease in Pace which mean if you decrease Pace by only 2 points instead then the performance drops by 18% instead of 36%
LOL... you want them test every attribute with 1 point step? Are you seriously? Expand
Let me say first I think this site is doing awesome , don’t get me wrong !
I think pace doesn’t scale linear as you suggest - but I can be wrong.
If I had the league start save point I would love to run the test for you / myself as well
Yeah i was kinda surprised as well that my tactic getting less than 20 goals in a whole PL season got battered in the tests. Defenitely needs tuning imo
@zaz as others mentioned corners strong , yet you don’t seem to pick play for set pieces ?
ta2199 said: Seem like once again Pace and Acc gonna be the most important ones. Expand
Yes true but the way it’s tested is what I don’t really agree with. Defenders in the testing league have 14 pace , if you test it with 4 less then you put 10 pace guys vs 16 pace which is a HUGE difference obviously making your defense leaky as hell. Would be nice to see a -2 as well as that’s really what we are doubting between ? ( taking a 14 pace defender with 17+ jumping or 16 pace with 12 jumping fe )
Same with consistency , you will almost have no one ever with 20 consistency so 10 vs 20 doesn’t really happen a lot , would be nicer to see 16 vs 10 and 14 vs 8 as those are actually achievable numbers.
Also still waiting on agi and balance stay testing as last year showed it’s undervalued by most
Like Zaz posted earlier is what Im seeing in results as well, that its weird / interesting and frustrating at the same time that the same tactic can put you 18th in the testing league one run and then in another run you are 3rd.
This is what I experienced in my testing runs as well that one run I was champions with 86 points in the PL, the next I had 90 points and I ended 3rd.
I dont have the testing league available to me so I cant keep testing stuff as I dont have enough knowledge to set up a league like that.
Hope you find something interesting that works >consistenyly< @ZaZ !
Actually, it's highly rated. The rating of this tactic is 5.4 rating when the highest rated tactic is 6.0 so there's only about 9.8% between them and I find such difference is quite small.
Btw, there's like a 1.5% difference between a 5.9 tactic and a 6.0 tactic and like a 3% difference between a 5.8 tactic and a 6.0 tactic.
If someone beats 6.0 rating gets 6.1 rating then he only improves the performance for about 1.5%
going from 5.4 to 6.0 is 11% increase which could translate to 8 points difference easily in a 38 game league. ( 80 points divided by 5.4, multiplied by 6 ) These 8 points can be HUGE for a title race.
from 5.8 to 6 is 3,4% gain which can be 2-3 points difference, when chasing for the title in super strong competitions this isnt bad ( granted difference is much less than the previous example )
Every 1% gain is close to a full point on average , so I would love to get a 6.5 tactic somehow working here
Been doing that ever since gegenpress was a thing when managing good teams.
Gegenpressing just hits you hard when you don’t rotate because your squad depth isn’t enough , usually when you climbing the leagues and you don’t have two equal teams and or players with very high stam / natural fitness.
Considering you have 25 players in some competitions it means 2 whole squads then one extra who can play the whole line to make it 25
And how does this surprise you when it’s marked as an important attribute for the CB position ? General rule of thumb is to get the green attributes for the role to be 15-16+ if you operate at high level
https://fm-arena.com/tactic/1899-jumping-reach-attribute-has-been-decreased-by-4-points-across-all-positions/
Where do you get the backs and DM part from ?
You score 0,2 per match less which is about 8 goals per season and you get scored against 0,2 per match which is also about 8 per season. This is imo almost all due to corners not being scored or defended.
Main goal scorers are your 2 cbs just like they are the main source to stop it ( although this is a bit tricky as the cpu doesn’t use same corner tactic so his strong headers could be in the back as well )
Problem is though pace / acc are more important and it’s already known that all the TOP cbs have 15+ speed AND 16+ jumping. My advice for those on a tight budget is to get one fast cb and one who can jump really high , same with strikers so you still have your 2 strong headers for the corner routine
Any chance you can test without cheating??
Feeezing morale and fitness is how the testing league works as well ?
I’m more bothered by not being able to read shit , is it a rule, or can it be made one , to post screenshots in English ? I mean how hard is it if you are the authentic author to just switch to English , make the screenshots , then go back .
As I can’t read most of it , I don’t know what to think of this , it looks strong and catching the ME off guard with something
Points should be 95 but they start from -1
Just heartbreaking, without that -1 you would have been champion :'(
Tried sloboszai fe but he didn’t make the cut cause of low stamina you have to sub him every game after 60 mins
Next thing to test is using this tactic with FB / WB as it feels the centre is getting a bit crowded now
I have two teams as well since the moment gegenpress became a thing in FM as since fatigue plays such a major role ( as chewie said above me ). Often your B team at full fitness will perform better than your A team with 90% fitness levels , despite being 10-15 CA lower.
I hate this since I *feel* this is one of the reasons my player never seem to improve on consistency, ever. ( yes I know its suppose to grow only by little margins, but when I go back 5 years into my save and the consistency is still the same as it is now, it feels off )
About training being of help : Despite using ZaZ training routine last year, I rarely saw players over the age of 20 gain any pace / acceleration, so im not sure how much they will actually help in development - would love to be proven wrong here.
It defenitely helps on the match preparation part and practice match is generally a good training session to include imo as it just improves everything.
Lastly, its a huge source for team cohesion which can take more than a year to fix even with massive amount of training into it and imo is just a big of a button to tweak as the condition / morale is.
Will post SS later, Man C had goal difference 110, 150 scored, Norwich ended 4th which obv is good.
2nd test running atm
Gz zaz , well done
edit : whats up next ? 5 at the back , one volante and 2 WCB for even more players upfront ?
Again I really agree with the general thought you are saying , just curious myself to find break points where things go to shit ( -4 pace ) or where things break into being OP ( 18 pace attackers ? ) vs the cost of it on the CA budget.
I’ll think things over and if I can test it such with a league I’ll gladly share the results with you
Decreasing Pace by 4 points reduces the performance about 36% so it's about 9% for a 1 point decrease in Pace which mean if you decrease Pace by only 2 points instead then the performance drops by 18% instead of 36%
LOL... you want them test every attribute with 1 point step? Are you seriously?
Let me say first I think this site is doing awesome , don’t get me wrong !
I think pace doesn’t scale linear as you suggest - but I can be wrong.
If I had the league start save point I would love to run the test for you / myself as well
Defenitely needs tuning imo
@zaz as others mentioned corners strong , yet you don’t seem to pick play for set pieces ?
Yes true but the way it’s tested is what I don’t really agree with.
Defenders in the testing league have 14 pace , if you test it with 4 less then you put 10 pace guys vs 16 pace which is a HUGE difference obviously making your defense leaky as hell. Would be nice to see a -2 as well as that’s really what we are doubting between ? ( taking a 14 pace defender with 17+ jumping or 16 pace with 12 jumping fe )
Same with consistency , you will almost have no one ever with 20 consistency so 10 vs 20 doesn’t really happen a lot , would be nicer to see 16 vs 10 and 14 vs 8 as those are actually achievable numbers.
Also still waiting on agi and balance stay testing as last year showed it’s undervalued by most
I did so few matches its hard to pass judgement.
I guess admins can run new tests to see a difference
This is what I experienced in my testing runs as well that one run I was champions with 86 points in the PL, the next I had 90 points and I ended 3rd.
I dont have the testing league available to me so I cant keep testing stuff as I dont have enough knowledge to set up a league like that.
Hope you find something interesting that works >consistenyly< @ZaZ !