I am a bit late to the party, but I have decided to play FM24 again and wait with FM26. Anyway, I was wondering if I also should team train my U21 and U19 teams + if I should individual train those players. If so, do I use the same team train schedule or a different one?
Orion said: I tried to replicate your case and I simply couldn't.
I've changed attributes of two players to match the ones of your players:
Player 1
Player 2
And the results for their GenieScout ratings are as shown:
So I have frankly no idea why you have those results.
My only wild guess is that maybe beside the ratings we can set, Genie takes into account some other factors into 'final rating'. As you can see I literally copied all attributes of your players to my players. So they have in theory attributes that should be suitable for AMLR yet they have highest rating in their respective 'original' positions (CD for Testing 1 and DMC for Testing 2) and their ratings for those positions is MUCH higher than it should be simply by taking only the attributes. Expand
Thanks for replying and testing. I am kinda thinking the same, that Genie does something extra to it. I don't 'need' to use Genie, but I like the extra colomns of 'potential AMLR' etc for seeing how good they can get with their percentages (not the actual PA colomn, dont care about that one), if that's even properly showing.
recoba said: I don't think you can consider Orion's calculation as an exact prediction. A ton of things go into a player's performance such as player role, consistency, important matches, pressure, time with the club, team-mate synergy, morale, fitness + additional randomness.
I'm sure his formula also isn't 100% fine-tuned e.g. like he mentioned, number of times a player plays in a position, randomness of experiments etc...
I think it's more about using this data to make an educated decision e.g. between which two players to buy. More times than not the one scoring higher does better. Expand
I am aware, I am purely talking about the results from the formula. As he created a FM Genie file, it should give the same results as it's the same formula. It's now literally the opposite so there is something different.
Orion said: I didn't paid attention how is this spreadsheet made. I didn't make it so I don't know how it works. Maybe it uses different coefficients since as far as I remember I updated them once (when I removed set pieces). Expand
I understand. So now, after reading your reply, I decided to try the formula manually for 2 players and with doing it manually, my main AML player (Strjacki) scores higher then the backup player (Lemmens). This is correct. Genie Scout however, with your file, rates it the way around with a massive gap. I'll post some screenshots so you can have a look as you created the Genie Scout file.
Strjacki - main AML
Lemmens - backup AML
Genie Scout picture 1
Genie Scout picture 2
You can see in genie scout picture 2 that I have the colomn sorting at Fast Striker and in picture 1 in combination with 2 where my main AML is listed, including the % compaired to other players, including my backup player Lemmens. It's very strange that Strjacki only scores 66,51% on your Genie Scout File. See the following picture for the FS ratings, just to be sure.
Orion said: In test there is no indicator about which player plays which role. They are only distinguished by their natural positions - my great wish would be possibility to filter them out by 'most played position' and not just 'position they can play'. This induces some errors since for extreme example if a player can play naturally as a Striker and CB he'll appear in both categories. My best hope is that in the sheer mass of the players such outliers will be outweighed.
In GenieScout rating files there is no AMLR (only 'regular' Winger, no matter the position) so their rating is set for group 'Fast Striker'. Expand
Alright, thanks for clarifying that up. However, there is something massively wrong then with the classic genie file. My best AML player is 15th on the Fast Striker in Genie Scout where on the Excel Spreadsheet he is one of the best (2nd). I am aware of some players being DC and showing up on top for other roles, but 15th with other AMLR players above him that are worse means something is wrong there.
I was re-reading everything and a new question popped up in my head. Does Inside Winger fall under AMLR? That's how I treated it, but if it's under MLR then I've been looking wrongly
FREVKY said: Yeah, but that's based purely on ingame attributes. Game engine kind of penalize you for selecting players out of their natural / trained positions and I didn't implement that in my spreadsheet obviously as it's not confirmed how big out of position penalty is. Expand
Yea I understand. It's good to still have to use your brain a little bit. Definitely gonna try it out, specially now Genie Scout isn't working after the update.
May I ask how you deal with potential future wonderkids? As in, Genie scout for example has colomns for their potential score so I have an idea on how someone can be in the future, before I bench/sell the wrong one
keithb said: Are your players all set to automatic intensity? Alternatively just leave the second to last condition on rest as well. You will still see insane growth in speed and ca. Expand
Yes, the players are set to automatic intensity. I am gonna try to play around with a matchplan for more resting/reserving when being ahead 2 goals of more as I sim my matches. Maybe that will help a bit.
FREVKY said: That's what I thought, so I created pretty simple excel spreadsheet that make mass player comparison possible and easy.
Here's how it works: First, you need to import specified views. I created two sets of these: one for your team (for squad view) and one for scouting tab - both with CA & PA hidden - and another set with CA & PA visible for those who like to spoil the fun a little bit. Download and paste them into "views" folder in your Documents (C:\Users\your_name\Documents\Sports Interactive\Football Manager 2024\views is the default path).
When you load the view, you need to select every player, so click on one player and than ctrl+a to select everyone in the team or in the scouting range. Just bear in mind the more players you select, the more time it takes, so if you're about to select over 1000 players, give it a few seconds to work. Then, press cltr+p to "print" the selection into HTML file. Save it wherever you want, name it whatever you want. Then, you need the spreadsheet (MS Excel file). Open it and then in the Excel go to to File->Open and select the html file with your set of players. Copy it's whole contents (ctrl+a, then ctrl+c) and paste them into my spreadsheet in the blank sheet called "IMPORT" then switch the sheet to the one called "CALCULATION" and it should automatically calculate values for every player for each position using coefficients from this thread. Additionalli I added sections with CA, PA and difference between them (it will work only when you used views with PA and CA obviously).
Of course you can use whatever filters you want on the scouting section to narrow down the amount of players to whatever you really need.
At first glance it may sound complicated a bit but it's pretty easy to use. If you find any trouble using it, I'll try to help.
The spreadsheet is editable so do whatever you want with it, if you find any room for improvements, go for it. Expand
Interesting spreadsheet. I gave it a try and funny enough, when I put my own squad in and sort from Z to A on strikers (ST), the top 3 are all defenders lol I guess that happens?
There is something that I don't understand, so maybe you could clear this up. I am looking at your Classic ME numbers and there you have for the GK position on Throwing the number -0,00331. However, when I check the Genie scout file for this, it shows throwing as 51, which is higher then decisions, which is on 35.
How is throwing on 51, when the initial number is a negative number? Is this just a mistake or am I missing something here?
Steelwood said: Make sure that you are only using double intensity on the last two condition bits (don't know how to describe it but it's seen earlier in this thread)
Other than that, injuries are mostly random. If you are playing a lot of games, you will get a lot of injuries Expand
I have it on the last two in the 'rest' section, hence me being so confused
I've been playing with [Quickness]+[Match Practise]+[Recovery]x7+[Attacking]+[Additional Focus Quickness]+[Double Intensity] for a while, but I notice my players get injuries a lot and they don't have the injury icon as a con. I also rotate my players to not let them play while being at risk of getting an injury, although this isn't always unavoidable.
I was wondering if this is normal behaviour and I don't need to worry too much or if I maybe am doing something wrong or missing something. Or am I maybe even using the wrong training schedule?
CBP87 said: Mate, you're thinking about that training schedule to increase acceleration and pace. This is a differnet thread, he was asking for tips on how to improve results when using this tactic. This was just a suggestion, the training is something different.
You can train the role you intend to use the player in for a weeks and still keep the additional focus on quickness, once you've happy with the familiarity then drop the role training and just following the training guide Expand
I understand now, thank you for taking the time to explain and sorry for the missunderstanding and hijacking the topic. I sometimes wish I could ask people in a different place to learn more. Keep up the great work!
Training a role via the development screen, so for example if you have a striker who is a natural striker but you're using PF and he is suited to AF role then it will take him longer to familirise himself with the role, where training him as a PF will help him familirise himself with the role because he isn't only playing it on match day but he is also training for that role, once he is fimiliar then you can stop training him in that role and concentrate on the training, doesn't take long for them to get familiar Expand
I thought we always had to keep the role in individual training to it's default. Am I wrong in that?
CBP87 said: By putting the tactic in all 3 slots it will get your players familiar with the tactic quicker, roles and position are different, if you've got a striker then you can train him as a pressing forward. I'm not saying retrain a position, but by training the role you'll also speed up the familiarity process Expand
But how do you train a role, I don't understand that part. The training schedules are about quickness, recovery, attacking (assuming you use the 7x recovery one as example).
I also don't understand how putting the same tactic on all 3 slots will make a player faster familiar with a tactic then having 1 slot filled and 2 slots unfilled. To me, it still uses that one and only slot no?
I am not judging btw, just trying to understand what you mean
These may be overwhelming but don't worry, just take your time and it will come to you, but persist with this tactic, its a beast Expand
What's the point of putting the tactic on all 3 tactic slots? Aslong you have 1 slot with a tactic, it only used that slot right? To ask secondly, isn't training a player to a different position then it's natural position a waste of CA resources? That's what I understood from the whole new training proces.
Zippo said: Well, if your team is full of mutants with insane regeneration capability which allows them to recover 100% Condition before every match or if you use any "tricks", you mentioned using the superrest method, or tools like the official in-game editor or FMRTE to bump their Conditions to 100% before every match then of course, in this case you don't need using any energy saving version of your tactic.
BUT it always makes sense to switch for something more defensive then the top tactic especially, when you have a solid lead by 2-3 more goals. Just check the table and you'll see that there're many other tactics that also, use 4-2-4 formation but have a lower number in the "goals conceded" stat than the top 4-2-4 tactic. Btw, and the defensive side of those tactics can be improved even further with some obvious tactical tweaks. Expand
That's interesting, cause if I remember correctly, I believe I read somewhere that a player with lower CA, but more rested will play better in a match then your main player with higher CA, but less match ready, even if it's like 5% (unsure about this last part, but maybe you have more knowledge on this).
Having a more defensive tactic of the same tactic does make sence while you explain it. I've never done this before, but curious to try out, althought I would like some confirmation on the more match fitness part. I currently am in my 6th season and am trying to rotate with this in mind, but would love to hear from others if it's true or not.
Bafici said: Roles doesn't matter in terms of attribute requirements. FS is the exact ratings with the tests. I would use this one for Advanced Forward.
In TS i made jumping reach a bit more important, nothing else is different. This can score more if you aim corners to this player. Expand
Interesting! I am gonna be in a lot of trouble this season then. I am at the start of my 6th season with Dortmund and have treated Adeyemi always as an inside forward, but according to your view/weights he's my highest FS %. With him coming in the picture for that position, while only having 1 spot, this is gonna be a tough day in the office to figure out if I play him over my 2 advanced forwards.
I don't have a minimum rating in my mind because i don't know the maximum rating in that position. I just sort best to worst. You can check your squads rating and then apply that rating as minimum. Expand
I don't know if it's just me overthinking it, but I still find it a bit rough regarding positions, because both striker positions in your view say that my strikers are not the best for it's potition. I use advanced forward attack, but unsure how to look at it as your view has FS/TS.
There is a lot of questions regarding how to do certain things in Genie Scout(GS) so i hope this helps.
First we need to setup the program to suit our needs.
1-You need to download This ratings file (OR This from @Pip and put it in C:\FM Genie Scout 24\Ratings.
You need to download This layout file and put it in C:\FM Genie Scout 24\Layouts.
2-Open GS and from top left select the files we just put in.
3-Open FM and load your save. Go back to GS and Select Load Game or click on the little icon next to GS icon. You will see a loading bar down below. This process can take a minute depending on how many players in your save.
4-After everything is loaded click on Red Filter button.I don't want players who have lower than 120 PA. You can search for everything you want.
5-These are all the players in the game who has 120PA at least. Down below you can see there is 27.304 players. You can sort the players according to positions.
6-I can hear you say "i don't want to see every player, i only want to see the players who are interested in joining me.". Don't worry, i got you covered.
After you filter the players you want, Press CTRL+A > Right Click > Add players. This will add all the players into "my shortlist" tab.
Go to that tab and save shortlist. Go into game > load this shortlist and put a tick "interested in" box. You assistant will filter the players who wants to join the club.
7-While you're in shortlist screen in the game click this button in GS and voila! Now you only see the players who are interested in your club.
Feel free to ask further questions. There might be parts hard to understand. I can edit in my free time.
** You can view your own squad if you click this button and type your club name. Expand
Thanks for sharing, I have some follow up questions if you don't mind:
- When opening FM Genie Scout and putting on your layout and ratings. When I close the app and open it again, let's say tomorrow, will the ratings still be loaded or do I have to do that part every time? I noticed the layout stays, just wondering if that's the same for ratings.
- When looking for a player, do you have an .. amount of % you aim for as a bare minimum? Let's say I look for a new AMR, do I only look at 70%+ best position rating? Reason for asking, most players seem to be extremily expensive so I was wondering how people deal with this.
I've changed attributes of two players to match the ones of your players:
Player 1
Player 2
And the results for their GenieScout ratings are as shown:
So I have frankly no idea why you have those results.
My only wild guess is that maybe beside the ratings we can set, Genie takes into account some other factors into 'final rating'. As you can see I literally copied all attributes of your players to my players. So they have in theory attributes that should be suitable for AMLR yet they have highest rating in their respective 'original' positions (CD for Testing 1 and DMC for Testing 2) and their ratings for those positions is MUCH higher than it should be simply by taking only the attributes.
Thanks for replying and testing. I am kinda thinking the same, that Genie does something extra to it. I don't 'need' to use Genie, but I like the extra colomns of 'potential AMLR' etc for seeing how good they can get with their percentages (not the actual PA colomn, dont care about that one), if that's even properly showing.
I'm sure his formula also isn't 100% fine-tuned e.g. like he mentioned, number of times a player plays in a position, randomness of experiments etc...
I think it's more about using this data to make an educated decision e.g. between which two players to buy. More times than not the one scoring higher does better.
I am aware, I am purely talking about the results from the formula. As he created a FM Genie file, it should give the same results as it's the same formula. It's now literally the opposite so there is something different.
Maybe it uses different coefficients since as far as I remember I updated them once (when I removed set pieces).
I understand. So now, after reading your reply, I decided to try the formula manually for 2 players and with doing it manually, my main AML player (Strjacki) scores higher then the backup player (Lemmens). This is correct. Genie Scout however, with your file, rates it the way around with a massive gap. I'll post some screenshots so you can have a look as you created the Genie Scout file.
Strjacki - main AML
Lemmens - backup AML
Genie Scout picture 1
Genie Scout picture 2
You can see in genie scout picture 2 that I have the colomn sorting at Fast Striker and in picture 1 in combination with 2 where my main AML is listed, including the % compaired to other players, including my backup player Lemmens. It's very strange that Strjacki only scores 66,51% on your Genie Scout File. See the following picture for the FS ratings, just to be sure.
Genie Scout ratings picture for Fast Striker
In GenieScout rating files there is no AMLR (only 'regular' Winger, no matter the position) so their rating is set for group 'Fast Striker'.
Alright, thanks for clarifying that up. However, there is something massively wrong then with the classic genie file. My best AML player is 15th on the Fast Striker in Genie Scout where on the Excel Spreadsheet he is one of the best (2nd). I am aware of some players being DC and showing up on top for other roles, but 15th with other AMLR players above him that are worse means something is wrong there.
Yea I understand. It's good to still have to use your brain a little bit. Definitely gonna try it out, specially now Genie Scout isn't working after the update.
May I ask how you deal with potential future wonderkids? As in, Genie scout for example has colomns for their potential score so I have an idea on how someone can be in the future, before I bench/sell the wrong one
Yes, the players are set to automatic intensity. I am gonna try to play around with a matchplan for more resting/reserving when being ahead 2 goals of more as I sim my matches. Maybe that will help a bit.
Here's how it works:
First, you need to import specified views. I created two sets of these: one for your team (for squad view) and one for scouting tab - both with CA & PA hidden - and another set with CA & PA visible for those who like to spoil the fun a little bit. Download and paste them into "views" folder in your Documents (C:\Users\your_name\Documents\Sports Interactive\Football Manager 2024\views is the default path).
When you load the view, you need to select every player, so click on one player and than ctrl+a to select everyone in the team or in the scouting range. Just bear in mind the more players you select, the more time it takes, so if you're about to select over 1000 players, give it a few seconds to work.
Then, press cltr+p to "print" the selection into HTML file. Save it wherever you want, name it whatever you want.
Then, you need the spreadsheet (MS Excel file). Open it and then in the Excel go to to File->Open and select the html file with your set of players. Copy it's whole contents (ctrl+a, then ctrl+c) and paste them into my spreadsheet in the blank sheet called "IMPORT" then switch the sheet to the one called "CALCULATION" and it should automatically calculate values for every player for each position using coefficients from this thread. Additionalli I added sections with CA, PA and difference between them (it will work only when you used views with PA and CA obviously).
Of course you can use whatever filters you want on the scouting section to narrow down the amount of players to whatever you really need.
At first glance it may sound complicated a bit but it's pretty easy to use. If you find any trouble using it, I'll try to help.
Spreadsheet link: https://www.mediafire.com/file/huj2qrmavoqnd6x/meta.xlsx/file
Updated spreadsheet including square root formula for M LR and ST: https://www.mediafire.com/file/j2rh3e6vk2hjw7i/meta.xlsx/file
The spreadsheet is editable so do whatever you want with it, if you find any room for improvements, go for it.
Interesting spreadsheet. I gave it a try and funny enough, when I put my own squad in and sort from Z to A on strikers (ST), the top 3 are all defenders lol
How is throwing on 51, when the initial number is a negative number? Is this just a mistake or am I missing something here?
Other than that, injuries are mostly random. If you are playing a lot of games, you will get a lot of injuries
I have it on the last two in the 'rest' section, hence me being so confused
I've been playing with [Quickness]+[Match Practise]+[Recovery]x7+[Attacking]+[Additional Focus Quickness]+[Double Intensity] for a while, but I notice my players get injuries a lot and they don't have the injury icon as a con. I also rotate my players to not let them play while being at risk of getting an injury, although this isn't always unavoidable.
I was wondering if this is normal behaviour and I don't need to worry too much or if I maybe am doing something wrong or missing something. Or am I maybe even using the wrong training schedule?
You can train the role you intend to use the player in for a weeks and still keep the additional focus on quickness, once you've happy with the familiarity then drop the role training and just following the training guide
I understand now, thank you for taking the time to explain and sorry for the missunderstanding and hijacking the topic. I sometimes wish I could ask people in a different place to learn more. Keep up the great work!
Training a role via the development screen, so for example if you have a striker who is a natural striker but you're using PF and he is suited to AF role then it will take him longer to familirise himself with the role, where training him as a PF will help him familirise himself with the role because he isn't only playing it on match day but he is also training for that role, once he is fimiliar then you can stop training him in that role and concentrate on the training, doesn't take long for them to get familiar
I thought we always had to keep the role in individual training to it's default. Am I wrong in that?
But how do you train a role, I don't understand that part. The training schedules are about quickness, recovery, attacking (assuming you use the 7x recovery one as example).
I also don't understand how putting the same tactic on all 3 slots will make a player faster familiar with a tactic then having 1 slot filled and 2 slots unfilled. To me, it still uses that one and only slot no?
I am not judging btw, just trying to understand what you mean
This tactic is really really good mate, I would stick with the tactic and concentrate on player recruitment. Look at players with 15+ acceleration and pace or as close to that as possible, the quicker the better, put the tactic in all 3 slots on the tactic screen, train players into the roles you intend to use them until familiar then have a look at the OP training schedules here - https://fm-arena.com/thread/13712-tentatively-new-training-schedule-renderings-based-on-attribute-test-results-welcome-to-propose-more-combination/
Also use these set piece routines - https://fm-arena.com/thread/14022-benefits-of-taking-control-over-the-set-pieces/
These may be overwhelming but don't worry, just take your time and it will come to you, but persist with this tactic, its a beast
What's the point of putting the tactic on all 3 tactic slots? Aslong you have 1 slot with a tactic, it only used that slot right? To ask secondly, isn't training a player to a different position then it's natural position a waste of CA resources? That's what I understood from the whole new training proces.
BUT it always makes sense to switch for something more defensive then the top tactic especially, when you have a solid lead by 2-3 more goals. Just check the table and you'll see that there're many other tactics that also, use 4-2-4 formation but have a lower number in the "goals conceded" stat than the top 4-2-4 tactic. Btw, and the defensive side of those tactics can be improved even further with some obvious tactical tweaks.
That's interesting, cause if I remember correctly, I believe I read somewhere that a player with lower CA, but more rested will play better in a match then your main player with higher CA, but less match ready, even if it's like 5% (unsure about this last part, but maybe you have more knowledge on this).
Having a more defensive tactic of the same tactic does make sence while you explain it. I've never done this before, but curious to try out, althought I would like some confirmation on the more match fitness part. I currently am in my 6th season and am trying to rotate with this in mind, but would love to hear from others if it's true or not.
In TS i made jumping reach a bit more important, nothing else is different. This can score more if you aim corners to this player.
Interesting! I am gonna be in a lot of trouble this season then. I am at the start of my 6th season with Dortmund and have treated Adeyemi always as an inside forward, but according to your view/weights he's my highest FS %. With him coming in the picture for that position, while only having 1 spot, this is gonna be a tough day in the office to figure out if I play him over my 2 advanced forwards.
I don't have a minimum rating in my mind because i don't know the maximum rating in that position. I just sort best to worst. You can check your squads rating and then apply that rating as minimum.
I don't know if it's just me overthinking it, but I still find it a bit rough regarding positions, because both striker positions in your view say that my strikers are not the best for it's potition. I use advanced forward attack, but unsure how to look at it as your view has FS/TS.
There is a lot of questions regarding how to do certain things in Genie Scout(GS) so i hope this helps.
First we need to setup the program to suit our needs.
1-You need to download This ratings file (OR This from @Pip and put it in C:\FM Genie Scout 24\Ratings.
You need to download This layout file and put it in C:\FM Genie Scout 24\Layouts.
2-Open GS and from top left select the files we just put in.
3-Open FM and load your save. Go back to GS and Select Load Game or click on the little icon next to GS icon. You will see a loading bar down below. This process can take a minute depending on how many players in your save.
4-After everything is loaded click on Red Filter button.I don't want players who have lower than 120 PA. You can search for everything you want.
5-These are all the players in the game who has 120PA at least. Down below you can see there is 27.304 players. You can sort the players according to positions.
6-I can hear you say "i don't want to see every player, i only want to see the players who are interested in joining me.". Don't worry, i got you covered.
After you filter the players you want, Press CTRL+A > Right Click > Add players. This will add all the players into "my shortlist" tab.
Go to that tab and save shortlist. Go into game > load this shortlist and put a tick "interested in" box. You assistant will filter the players who wants to join the club.
7-While you're in shortlist screen in the game click this button in GS and voila! Now you only see the players who are interested in your club.
Feel free to ask further questions. There might be parts hard to understand. I can edit in my free time.
** You can view your own squad if you click this button and type your club name.
Thanks for sharing, I have some follow up questions if you don't mind:
- When opening FM Genie Scout and putting on your layout and ratings. When I close the app and open it again, let's say tomorrow, will the ratings still be loaded or do I have to do that part every time? I noticed the layout stays, just wondering if that's the same for ratings.
- When looking for a player, do you have an .. amount of % you aim for as a bare minimum? Let's say I look for a new AMR, do I only look at 70%+ best position rating? Reason for asking, most players seem to be extremily expensive so I was wondering how people deal with this.