harvestgreen22 said: Importance priority (Briefly, it can be seen from the table "3":
table 1: Increase the attribute from its initial value to 18, table 2: Reduce the attribute from its initial value to 1, table 3: Subtract Table 2 from Table 1 to obtain the overall importance.
1. Acceleration 、 Pace 、 Work Rate (The Work Rate minimum is 6 . below 6 will result in severe penalties, but above 6 will result in a small increase.)
4. The influence of other attributes has become relatively insignificant. Expand
Ok thanks, i wonder why Attacking session is part of the "meta" training schedule and not a Defending session? with an Attacking session it only prioritises Dribbling from the 2nd group of "meta" attributes and both Finishing & Composure from the 3rd group while a Defending session prioritises Work Rate from the 1st group off "meta" attributes and Anticipation & Concentration from the 2nd group and Positioning & Aggression from the 3rd group so this would seem that Defending would be a better choice, no?
Sorry i not looked through here in long time could someone remind me what the best "meta" attributes was again i think i remember Pace, Acceleration, Jumping Reach, Dribbling, Work Rate and maybe Concentration?
BrushlessPlaymaker said: I've been following all these posts about meta attributes and HarvestGreen training finds, and I'm still not clear on this issue. Do training Units influence progress at all? I've been putting my CB's and Deffending DM's on the defensive Unit, everyone else is attacking, and not sure if it's doing anything.
Also, still on FM2024, using [Quickness]+[Match Practice]+[Attacking]x2+[Addtional Focus Quickness]+[Double Intensity] Expand
I have also been following their work since the beginning and i don't recall ever seeing them mention about changing units but i can't be sure, i have never changed mine
Right now, I wouldn't recommend x7 recovery. But it doesn't matter much, we're probably talking like ~5% or less difference. I recommend Quick + Match Practice + Attackx2 + Double Intensity + Quick focus (Agility for GK) + remainder rest. 'No pitch or gym work' for first 3 condition icons, only 4-5 pre-season friendlies. Expand
Oh ok you on FM24 fair enough, i did the same schedule but with the x7 recovery and sticking with it on FM26 for now, like you say it's a minimal difference with recovery or without probably best to mix it up a bit and get the best of both.
I am skeptical. If this is true, then why do recovery sessions seem to impact training results as compared to rest? Is it only because of the 3 period rest days? How can recovery also make such a large condition/jadedness difference over time if its just those infrequent 3 period rest days?
I agree with ZaZ's comment that rest works for match sharpness so long as you manage your squad correctly through rotation and playing them occasionally in youth friendlies if necessary.
I actually think recovery has more downsides than just slightly worse training. In my own save I was using the exploit trick to use all recovery sessions instead of rest, and found it was a bit too harsh on condition and caused excess jadedness. Jadedness isn't that bad as EBFM found it's self-limiting and it's difficult to reach and easy to solve, but it does have some impact on performance. So I've been advocating for a mix of rest and recovery, but after doing some testing, you can actually get away with no recovery sessions at all. And for the slight training bonus, you would want to.
Semi-related - At the moment I'm re-analyzing attributes. For some reason a few months ago I decided quickness + attack was the best, without match practice. When I returned to it for my post here recently, I thought I made a mistake of simply forgetting match practice. But now I vaguely recall it could be that although it's a "worse" training regime, it favors 'decisions' less say, making it actually better overall. So for me, the best training regime is still in flux, I will re-assess after completing my attribute re-analysis. Expand
So you would recommend not using the x7 Recovery? Have you done anything with developing your youth as FM26 doesn't allow us to actually manage the youth training, i have put all my 4+ star potential youths in my first team and made them available for the u18/u21 they are developing well as it's the only way to customize their training.
GeorgeFloydOverdosed said: From what I've heard, the FM26 training file is identical to the one in FM24, and HarvestGreen22 found that attribute importance remains largely the same (long shots, finishing were boosted somewhat)
Separate to that, I wouldn't use recovery. It actually seems to affect training gains, and you can maintain match sharpness well enough with this instead (this also has the most gains in FM24 according to Piperita a few posts above): Quickness + Match Practice + Attackx2 + Double Intensity + Quickness focus (Agility for GK) + remainder rest Expand
In FM24 HarvestGreen22 recommended all rest for youth players to boost their Physicals but for first team he recommended the one i mentioned as best for first team players, it had recovery x7, it's what i have been using but i don't think it's been amazing so far, do you recommend without the recovery sessions?
Hello i know im being completely lazy here but i just haven't got the time atm to read back through the post has anyone done any testing yet or found the best training schedule to use FM26? so far i have just been using the Quickness/Physical - MP x2 - Attacking - Recovery x7 from FM24
So i was wondering does anyone know or done tests to see if their is any significant benefit to growing attributes all the way up to 20, what i mean is once an attribute hits 15 how much extra benefit will it really be trying to keep growing it???
harvestgreen22 said: This is my version where you can refer to the results of multiple people at the same time, Different people start from different angles and initial test conditions, so they may get different results, Mine may not be right.
Then, briefly, on the top table, the greener the number, the more important, and the larger the number, the more important Expand
Seeing as Concentration is one of the best Meta attributes what is the best way to target this attribute as no additional focus training targets it?
axRayz said: I personally trust @Zippos test the most as it's something he's done for years.
In I17 and J17 (Training English 10), I observed slightly better meta growth with only 1 [Recovery] instead of x7, and in B21, I also saw [Resistance] perform above [Quickness] in the standard:
You can swap the [Recovery] for another [Attacking] for extra development, but I just prefer to minimize injury risk.
According to me (I may be wrong), that's the best training schedule from @harvestgreen22s Training English 2 sheet, out of all the options of only 1 training block. But If you consider maximum meta growth only, this should be the best one:
For most simplicity, you can just use "All-Rest+[Double Intensity]+[Addtional Focus Quickness]" (It is one of the most effective)
for all team , include u18, u21 & first team
Fewer training programs, Bad: It will be harder to maintain "match sharpnes" ,so it will have a Indirect effect Good: Much lower injuries , much higher "overall condition"
Since Pace and Acceleration are the strongest attributes in the game, using "The All rest" is a way to get your players to "the maximum combat effectiveness" in the shortest time,, so as long as you don't sell your players to your current competitors, you are earning ,
and that's the best as You guarantee that you can win the current game as much as possible, so that the player gets the reputation of winning the game, and the reputation can be translated into the price when selling
1. The role of Recovery itself: Compared with rest , Bad: Increase less condition and Fatigue Good: Reduce Sharpness by less , Reduce extra injury risk , Do not reduce Cohesion
2. What Recovery does when assigning attributes: It has the effect of "pulling" the attribute assignment more into the Physical class attribute. However Its "pull" effect is weak (not like things like "[Quickness]", so once you have no room to put it in schedule , the lack of it doesn't matter much Expand
Ok so you think all rest is also best for the first team? would this not have a negative affect on all the technical & mental attributes?
I know fantastic work has gone into this and i do appreciate it but it's too much for my simple mind looking at all these charts and tons of post saying this and that, has anyone actually had in game success with what schedules for u18, u21 & first team and is it just worth focusing on the meta attributes or overall growth, thanks
twkmax said: Plan 3 but have no additional focus (or you can choose one if you want) Expand
Pk thanks, i still find it pretty insane that no training at all makes their Physicals grow more than anything you would think maybe even 1 Overall Physical session would do more
Based on the data the best training strategies are either Strategy 17 (1 in the previous version) or Strategy 21 (2 in the previous version). Atm I prefer Strategy 21.
To apply this to the game do as follows: 1. Use Plan 1 or 3 for the u18s (2 years, age 15/16-18) 2. when they age out move to B Team where you should use the opposite of what you used for u18s 3. Then when either CA high enough or Pace/Acc high enough (depends which way round you did it), move to senior squad. I stop actively training Pace/Acc when both are >16 4. When in senior squad remove Quickness additional focus
HOWEVER, I have some questions:
In the image I compare the growth patterns for the 2 different strategies (Note: Strat 1=Strat 17, and Strat 2=Strat 21, they just have different starting parameters). 1. When comparing Strat 1 vs Strat 2 something is wrong with your data @harvestgreen22 . Strat 2 has a much higher final CA, but overall has lower attributes, even when taking attribute weighting into account. 2. Additionally, when comparing Strat 17 vs Strat 21, Strat 17 appears to be slightly better. Which makes me question the CA values in the initial Strat 1 vs Strat 2 test even more.
Thanks again, @harvestgreen22 . Hopefully this is useful for everyone. Expand
Ok and then what schedule do you use for the senior squad?
harvestgreen22 said: If I am in a relatively high level league, I will choose Growth strategy 2 in all of them ( main team , U18, U21 ), which maybe relatively general and convenient
If I am in a relatively lowest ranking league and the players' PA is very low (for example, 50-80PA), then I will choose Growth strategy 3, giving up technical attributes and maximizing physical attributes Expand
Growth Strategy 2 is plan 3 for 2 years then plan 1 for 2 years correct?
AideNGomiinaM said: Hey, thank you for your work. I have a question : For the S8 training program, how do u setup 3 match practice in one week because im limited to 2. I really wanted to try this program. Thanks mate Expand
When you create your schedule have a Match Practice session on Monday & Tuesday then put a match on Wednesday, once you load up the schedule that match will turn into a Match practice session thus giving you 3 MP in a week
kvasir said: The position a player trains in doesn't matter much as long as they're natural (light green) in the position they're playing. What you want to avoid is playing a player in positions they aren't natural in, as this will use up some of their Current Ability (CA) to learn the new position.
For example, if you have a natural Winger and play them as a Striker where they aren't natural, some of their CA will be spent learning the Striker position instead of improving their attributes. However, if you have a defender who is already natural in both CB and LB positions, it doesn't affect their development whether they train or play in either position, since they won't spend CA learning a new position.
In your specific case: If those wingers/strikers and CM/CAM players are already natural in both positions they can play in, don't worry about where they train. The fact that one trains as a striker while playing as a winger, or trains as CM while playing as CAM, won't harm their development. You only need to be concerned if they're training/playing in positions where they aren't natural.
That's my understanding at least from browsing through the forum over the last couple of years. Expand
OK yes that does make sense thanks, i was just wondering more about the attributes they will be improving in, the Match Practice session trains "individual roles" and therefore the attributes specific to their role so i was thinking if they are training in a different role position to what i play them as or want them to play as they might be improving in some attributes that aren't as necessary compared to attributes that are? to be honest some of this does all confuse me at times lol
I have seen in lots of your posts about training not to assign youth players a Position/Role/Duty but Something i have noticed with youth players if you don't set a Position/Role/Duty they don't train in the position they are playing, for example i have 2 players who can play as wingers and striker and im playing both as wingers in the u23 team all season but they are still training as a "striker" by default and a player who can play both CM or CAM and all season he has played in the CAM position for U23 but he's still training as a "CM" But with the first team if you consistently play a player in a certain position their training will default to that position, do you have any thoughts on this? Makes me think maybe i should set all the U23/U18 players pos/role/duty to the position they are playing
table 1: Increase the attribute from its initial value to 18,
table 2: Reduce the attribute from its initial value to 1,
table 3: Subtract Table 2 from Table 1 to obtain the overall importance.
1.
Acceleration 、 Pace 、
Work Rate (The Work Rate minimum is 6 . below 6 will result in severe penalties, but above 6 will result in a small increase.)
2.
Jumping Reach 、 Dribbling 、 Concentration 、 Anticipation 、Stamina 、Agility 、 Balance
3.
Composure 、 Finishing 、 Strength 、Aggression 、 Positioning
4.
The influence of other attributes has become relatively insignificant.
Ok thanks, i wonder why Attacking session is part of the "meta" training schedule and not a Defending session? with an Attacking session it only prioritises Dribbling from the 2nd group of "meta" attributes and both Finishing & Composure from the 3rd group while a Defending session prioritises Work Rate from the 1st group off "meta" attributes and Anticipation & Concentration from the 2nd group and Positioning & Aggression from the 3rd group so this would seem that Defending would be a better choice, no?
Also, still on FM2024, using
[Quickness]+[Match Practice]+[Attacking]x2+[Addtional Focus Quickness]+[Double Intensity]
I have also been following their work since the beginning and i don't recall ever seeing them mention about changing units but i can't be sure, i have never changed mine
Right now, I wouldn't recommend x7 recovery. But it doesn't matter much, we're probably talking like ~5% or less difference. I recommend Quick + Match Practice + Attackx2 + Double Intensity + Quick focus (Agility for GK) + remainder rest. 'No pitch or gym work' for first 3 condition icons, only 4-5 pre-season friendlies.
Oh ok you on FM24 fair enough, i did the same schedule but with the x7 recovery and sticking with it on FM26 for now, like you say it's a minimal difference with recovery or without probably best to mix it up a bit and get the best of both.
I am skeptical. If this is true, then why do recovery sessions seem to impact training results as compared to rest? Is it only because of the 3 period rest days? How can recovery also make such a large condition/jadedness difference over time if its just those infrequent 3 period rest days?
I agree with ZaZ's comment that rest works for match sharpness so long as you manage your squad correctly through rotation and playing them occasionally in youth friendlies if necessary.
I actually think recovery has more downsides than just slightly worse training. In my own save I was using the exploit trick to use all recovery sessions instead of rest, and found it was a bit too harsh on condition and caused excess jadedness. Jadedness isn't that bad as EBFM found it's self-limiting and it's difficult to reach and easy to solve, but it does have some impact on performance. So I've been advocating for a mix of rest and recovery, but after doing some testing, you can actually get away with no recovery sessions at all. And for the slight training bonus, you would want to.
Semi-related - At the moment I'm re-analyzing attributes. For some reason a few months ago I decided quickness + attack was the best, without match practice. When I returned to it for my post here recently, I thought I made a mistake of simply forgetting match practice. But now I vaguely recall it could be that although it's a "worse" training regime, it favors 'decisions' less say, making it actually better overall. So for me, the best training regime is still in flux, I will re-assess after completing my attribute re-analysis.
So you would recommend not using the x7 Recovery? Have you done anything with developing your youth as FM26 doesn't allow us to actually manage the youth training, i have put all my 4+ star potential youths in my first team and made them available for the u18/u21 they are developing well as it's the only way to customize their training.
Separate to that, I wouldn't use recovery. It actually seems to affect training gains, and you can maintain match sharpness well enough with this instead (this also has the most gains in FM24 according to Piperita a few posts above): Quickness + Match Practice + Attackx2 + Double Intensity + Quickness focus (Agility for GK) + remainder rest
In FM24 HarvestGreen22 recommended all rest for youth players to boost their Physicals but for first team he recommended the one i mentioned as best for first team players, it had recovery x7, it's what i have been using but i don't think it's been amazing so far, do you recommend without the recovery sessions?
This is my version where you can refer to the results of multiple people at the same time,
Different people start from different angles and initial test conditions, so they may get different results,
Mine may not be right.
Then, briefly, on the top table, the greener the number, the more important, and the larger the number, the more important
Seeing as Concentration is one of the best Meta attributes what is the best way to target this attribute as no additional focus training targets it?
In I17 and J17 (Training English 10), I observed slightly better meta growth with only 1 [Recovery] instead of x7, and in B21, I also saw [Resistance] perform above [Quickness] in the standard:
[Quickness]+[Match Practice]+[Attacking]+[Recovery]x7+[Double Intensity]+[Addtional Focus Quickness]
So, I wonder If, combining both observations, the following schedule is the most optimal for overall growth:
[Resistance]+[Match Practice]+[Attacking]+[Recovery]+[Double Intensity]+[Addtional Focus Quickness]
What are your thoughts?
Ok thanks just checked that out so it's like
Pace / Acceleration
Stamina / Anticipation / Jump Reach / Dribbling
Balance / Work Rate
Concentration / Strength / Finishing
[Quickness]+[Match Practice]+[Attacking]+[Recovery]+[Double Intensity]+[Addtional Focus Quickness]
You can swap the [Recovery] for another [Attacking] for extra development, but I just prefer to minimize injury risk.
According to me (I may be wrong), that's the best training schedule from @harvestgreen22s Training English 2 sheet, out of all the options of only 1 training block. But If you consider maximum meta growth only, this should be the best one:
[Resistance]+[Match Practice]+[Attacking]+[Recovery]+[Double Intensity]+[Addtional Focus Quickness]
I used @Zippos Attribute Testing as reference to do the calcs.
What are the best meta attributes i see someone post about it and their is different levels
Most Important: Pace, Acceleration
Important: Jumping Reach, Anticipation, Balance, Agility, Concentration, Finishing
Good: Work Rate, Dribbling, Stamina, Strength, Passing, Determination, Vision
Decent: Long Shots, Marking, Decisions, First Touch,
Almost Irrelevant: Off the Ball, Tackling, Teamwork, Composure, Technique, Positioning
This was the post and obviously some are going to be more relevant than others for each position
You can take a look at this. I just sent it
For most simplicity, you can just use
"All-Rest+[Double Intensity]+[Addtional Focus Quickness]" (It is one of the most effective)
for all team , include u18, u21 & first team
Fewer training programs,
Bad: It will be harder to maintain "match sharpnes" ,so it will have a Indirect effect
Good: Much lower injuries , much higher "overall condition"
In contrast, I would suggest increase "match sharpnes" or "Familiarity" by scheduling friendly games.
check this link
https://fm-arena.com/thread/14456-corrigendum-for-previous-test-error-friendly-matches-actually-count-as-the-number-of-matches-playing-friendly-matches-can-increase-ca/
Since Pace and Acceleration are the strongest attributes in the game, using "The All rest" is a way to get your players to "the maximum combat effectiveness" in the shortest time,, so as long as you don't sell your players to your current competitors, you are earning ,
and that's the best as You guarantee that you can win the current game as much as possible, so that the player gets the reputation of winning the game, and the reputation can be translated into the price when selling
1.
The role of Recovery itself:
Compared with rest ,
Bad: Increase less condition and Fatigue
Good: Reduce Sharpness by less , Reduce extra injury risk , Do not reduce Cohesion
2.
What Recovery does when assigning attributes:
It has the effect of "pulling" the attribute assignment more into the Physical class attribute.
However Its "pull" effect is weak (not like things like "[Quickness]"
Ok so you think all rest is also best for the first team? would this not have a negative affect on all the technical & mental attributes?
Pk thanks, i still find it pretty insane that no training at all makes their Physicals grow more than anything you would think maybe even 1 Overall Physical session would do more
Based on the data the best training strategies are either Strategy 17 (1 in the previous version) or Strategy 21 (2 in the previous version).
Atm I prefer Strategy 21.
To apply this to the game do as follows:
1. Use Plan 1 or 3 for the u18s (2 years, age 15/16-18)
2. when they age out move to B Team where you should use the opposite of what you used for u18s
3. Then when either CA high enough or Pace/Acc high enough (depends which way round you did it), move to senior squad. I stop actively training Pace/Acc when both are >16
4. When in senior squad remove Quickness additional focus
HOWEVER, I have some questions:
In the image I compare the growth patterns for the 2 different strategies (Note: Strat 1=Strat 17, and Strat 2=Strat 21, they just have different starting parameters).
1. When comparing Strat 1 vs Strat 2 something is wrong with your data @harvestgreen22 . Strat 2 has a much higher final CA, but overall has lower attributes, even when taking attribute weighting into account.
2. Additionally, when comparing Strat 17 vs Strat 21, Strat 17 appears to be slightly better. Which makes me question the CA values in the initial Strat 1 vs Strat 2 test even more.
Thanks again, @harvestgreen22 . Hopefully this is useful for everyone.
Ok and then what schedule do you use for the senior squad?
If I am in a relatively lowest ranking league and the players' PA is very low (for example, 50-80PA), then I will choose Growth strategy 3, giving up technical attributes and maximizing physical attributes
Growth Strategy 2 is plan 3 for 2 years then plan 1 for 2 years correct?
I have a question : For the S8 training program, how do u setup 3 match practice in one week because im limited to 2. I really wanted to try this program. Thanks mate
When you create your schedule have a Match Practice session on Monday & Tuesday then put a match on Wednesday, once you load up the schedule that match will turn into a Match practice session thus giving you 3 MP in a week
For example, if you have a natural Winger and play them as a Striker where they aren't natural, some of their CA will be spent learning the Striker position instead of improving their attributes. However, if you have a defender who is already natural in both CB and LB positions, it doesn't affect their development whether they train or play in either position, since they won't spend CA learning a new position.
In your specific case: If those wingers/strikers and CM/CAM players are already natural in both positions they can play in, don't worry about where they train. The fact that one trains as a striker while playing as a winger, or trains as CM while playing as CAM, won't harm their development. You only need to be concerned if they're training/playing in positions where they aren't natural.
That's my understanding at least from browsing through the forum over the last couple of years.
OK yes that does make sense thanks, i was just wondering more about the attributes they will be improving in, the Match Practice session trains "individual roles" and therefore the attributes specific to their role so i was thinking if they are training in a different role position to what i play them as or want them to play as they might be improving in some attributes that aren't as necessary compared to attributes that are? to be honest some of this does all confuse me at times lol