Jolt said: Since you can min-max players attribute development in your club, and you can't while they are on loan, you should generally only loan someone once playing time is crucial to keep developing (and match/league reputation is crucial to develop the player) to offset your optimized training.
And that is 24+ aged players, IIRC. Expand
If You keep players 24+, who dont play in your first team, You do something wrong. Actually if a player 20+ doesn't play in a league adequate to his skill, his progress is weak-or-none-or-negative. But it's really hard to find him a club giving game time at a good level. Unless You have really great reputation - in that situation You have a long queue for Your youngsters.
And I would never ever let a player 18- to go to AI club. Especially if he has a high PA.
Yarema said: The key is to keep players on month to month contracts when they expire in the summer, and as you find replacements only then release them. Same goes for signing free agents which are significantly cheaper closer to deadline day. Expand Sure, but why loanies? You will find much better free agents. And what's more You can easily test them all and I don't know how to scout all loanies to choose the best one (who maybe is still not so good).
But they just dont want to loan. Except for players who are weak for a league they are to loan.
And that's because player's progress on loan in lower leagues (not the lowest ones but just leagues in which these youngsters would be good) is drastically capped by SI in FM24 - loaning is just useless for a player's owner.
I wonder how you can wait without any transfer moves to the very last moment. If there is no player for a position you need you will stay without an important player. It's better to find a free agent: there are loads of them, some are quite good and nearly all of them ready to be tested.
Edit: Of cource except if you take it as a kind of sport - something that is not very effective but just nice as a challenge.
MeanOnSunday said: Doesn’t make sense to worry about it. Sign the best free agents and loans you can get at the start of each year. No young player is ever going to progress enough from training to get into your team, or to stay with the team as you get promoted. Expand In FM24 loaning is destroyed by SI and nearly unusable. For both sides (!). But actually free agents would be enough.
btw @Panneton0 if you read this thread You wouldnt ask this stupid (in this place) question.
GeorgeFloydOverdosed said: I may be mistaken but I don't think you can train player position to 20, it can be 'natural' but it will still be 18. Expand You can - tested many times. Especially at youngsters and with close positions. Of course it depends on versatility hidden attribute.
In theory professionalism is better - somebody on yt tested that there is no chance to make a good player with low prof. and sometimes it happens when a determination is low. But irl players with really low profess. are very, very few and very, very far between in FM base and in newgen. Balotelli is a lonely knight. And low determination you can see quite often
GeorgeFloydOverdosed said: 1. It doesn't matter much what player you sign, because even a low PA 8 pace/acc player can still become a beast with HarvestGreen22's training regimes. 2. What will matter is training progress rate. So sign young players with at least decent professionalism and give them 15-30 matches/season or loan them out. 3. If you want extra performance and/or more rounded players, sign players with mid/high mentals/technicals to begin with. These mostly stagnate or drop with HarvestGreen22 training.
5. Sign 'natural' (20) position players only. They have the equivalent of a starting +2 pace advantage over 'accomplished' (18) players, and 18 cannot even be later trained to 20. 6. Try to sign or train up players in line with the ~140 PA ideal attribute templates if really want to optimize things. 7. Avoid dirty players. Worry less about consistency, injury proneness, set pieces. Get a captain GK. (...) , something as low and simple as 8 pace/acc min can be enough to separate the wheat from the chaff, Expand 1. As far as I can see good physical progress can be observed at u19 players. If You buy 20 yo player with pace/acc 8 You lose your money. What's more if You have money to buy 140 PA young players there's no need to risk with very slow (speed 8) 18-20 yo players (BTW if you don't cheat with GS You don't know CA/PA ) 2. I would say determination is in a way more important because I dont remember players with professionalism 6-7, and not talking about less (I always try to search minimum in my teams for my information) but determination 2-3 is quite often in lower leagues - and drastically slower youngster progress - there is a hope for such a player but if you are not desperate dont risk with him. 5. You can change natural position and reach a new one to level 20 . Especially if You have a good newgen playing as CB with aerial reach ~9 you should do it. Apart from everything else aerial coaching doesnt work good. 6. If (IF!) You have money - why not. 7. Avoid players with low mental - concentration, compassion, determination have a great impact and are really hard to improve. From my experience GK with low consistency is a fail. Injury proneness IS important if You dont have good subs - on the other hand a game is buggy and player with this attribute 5 can have (in 4 years time) more injuries then the one with 15 - but statistically it is important, though You dont see these numbers without GS.
And maybe I'm wrong , but I have an impression that in FM24 loaning above-average young players to lower leagues doesnt work very good because their progress is capped by the league level.
Sanfierro said: And honestly, I’m tired of seeing people like you in every FM community deliberately missing the main point just to defend the game out of pure fanboyism. So, I want to respond properly.
[Hate this bombastic style] Expand Actually a great part of video games has a set of meta attributes making most of game concepts worthless, nobody blames them for that, and I mean top games with universal acclaim, FM24 is not the only one here, so just deal with it instead of complaining.
CryosFeron said: ... now knowing that I just need pace/accelration and use this "plastic" lifeless training plan... Expand Actually a great part of video games has a set of meta attributes making most of game concepts worthless, nobody blames them for that, and I mean top games with universal acclaim, FM24 is not the only one here, so just deal with it instead of complaining. By the way we have the same trend in real life where players are more and more phycical.
I don't know GS procedures but both have level 20 for two positions and maybe one player has CA calculated for AMRL and the second one for ST - in such case results will be different.
Only I know is not to train weaker foot (CA grows and the effect is weak) but You don't have such possibility in FM24 . And the second I see: if a player has a trait not to shot from distance he often doesn't. Does traits trainig reduce basic training effect? - I don't know. Do these trained traits have any real impact? - hard to say. I train defenders to stay on our half of the pitch and see them on the other regularly.
It's not so clear what You mean. If You mean the attribute "important matches" - it has an impact in a single match but as there is not so many really important matches it doesn't have very great impact on average player's note from a whole season.
Because the first one has decent jumping and for that reason bigger part of his final score comes from points for a jumping and the second one has a good stamina and doesnt jump so high so he gets more points for stamina and only a few for a jumping reach. But finally after summing all points for all attributes result was identical, what is the only strange question here.
darrensmith360 said: (Genuine question) Have you read this whole thread Expand (Genuine answear) I did. And also noticed, what You didn't, that author wrote: he signs weak (because lack of other possibilities) but already quick youngsters to boost them to 18-20, as from slow it would take too much time or never. You mixed two orders: one by speed and the other by PA. I played some seasons in lower spanish leagues using rest-scheme for U-19 with really very poor trainers and weak facilities and from my observation if a player is naturally slow he rather won't progress very much, You won't get a hit from a shit, even with good deter+prof+ambit - and all my youngsters were at start 15 not 17. On the other site if he is just over average he will by at 21 good/very good (as for speed). If he is quick he will be 18-20. But as lasko said it ruins other attr. - they can be rebuild easier than lack of quickness at 22, but not so easy. So when pace= 14-15 or at the age of 18 player should be moved to other training group.
BTW I have not-even-18-year old left defense with pace/acc 18 (progress ~5), quite decent stamina, drib, conc and good workload and his CA is about 90 and PA <110 - it's the question of the appropriate balance (only jumping is hard to find for cheap prices). What's interesting his attributes weren't ruined so much in rest training (question of luck, I think)
When he has 8 PAC/ACC at 17 he is to slow for anything except selling, 17 is too late for starting, cause best progress is at 15-17 and I doubt in such a big progress after 17, especially with such poor facilities. By the way in that league You wont attract many youngsters with 120+ PA unless hard cheating with GenieScout
It is of course important how you do calculate it, but it's not the clue I just think it should be anyhow marked if a score your calculator gives a user (no matter which way it's calculated) is based on (very) unprecise data. If an attribute, especially very important one, has a range 5-12 you sholdnt just put 9. By the way (and that's one of the reasons, why above suggestion) maybe it's only my impression, but when a given range of an attribute is, let's say, 12-18, real value is more often 12-14 than 16-18 - I invite for tests many players with acceleration "12-18" and maybe 2 of them proved to have real acc value over 15 (a few 15 and none 18)
Possebrew said: Could you provide a sample view of the view you're talking about, so I can get a better idea? Expand Sure Here are two images for example: slice of html with certain Alex Martin as loaded (we dont know much about him as You see) and what we get from calculator (precise number)
Thank you for Your great work. I wasn't convinced but it's really very helpful.
I would add in players in range view info about % of knowledge, it is crucial - now we get all of them as certain positions. And maybe about status of their contract too (same in scouted).
Unfortunately FM has a problem with printing to html when there is more then 250 names on the list, but of course its not Your fault.
And transfer to avoid: every position low workload (1-3) and average- speed attackers - definitely no, every position very low concentration (1-2) and average- jumping reach central defenders- only if necessary, OC there are a few good players with these attributes but no need to try.
And that is 24+ aged players, IIRC.
If You keep players 24+, who dont play in your first team, You do something wrong.
Actually if a player 20+ doesn't play in a league adequate to his skill, his progress is weak-or-none-or-negative. But it's really hard to find him a club giving game time at a good level. Unless You have really great reputation - in that situation You have a long queue for Your youngsters.
And I would never ever let a player 18- to go to AI club. Especially if he has a high PA.
Sure, but why loanies? You will find much better free agents.
And what's more You can easily test them all and I don't know how to scout all loanies to choose the best one (who maybe is still not so good).
And that's because player's progress on loan in lower leagues (not the lowest ones but just leagues in which these youngsters would be good) is drastically capped by SI in FM24 - loaning is just useless for a player's owner.
I wonder how you can wait without any transfer moves to the very last moment. If there is no player for a position you need you will stay without an important player. It's better to find a free agent: there are loads of them, some are quite good and nearly all of them ready to be tested.
Edit: Of cource except if you take it as a kind of sport - something that is not very effective but just nice as a challenge.
In FM24 loaning is destroyed by SI and nearly unusable. For both sides (!). But actually free agents would be enough.
btw @Panneton0 if you read this thread You wouldnt ask this stupid (in this place) question.
You can - tested many times. Especially at youngsters and with close positions. Of course it depends on versatility hidden attribute.
In theory professionalism is better - somebody on yt tested that there is no chance to make a good player with low prof. and sometimes it happens when a determination is low. But irl players with really low profess. are very, very few and very, very far between in FM base and in newgen. Balotelli is a lonely knight. And low determination you can see quite often
2. What will matter is training progress rate. So sign young players with at least decent professionalism and give them 15-30 matches/season or loan them out.
3. If you want extra performance and/or more rounded players, sign players with mid/high mentals/technicals to begin with. These mostly stagnate or drop with HarvestGreen22 training.
5. Sign 'natural' (20) position players only. They have the equivalent of a starting +2 pace advantage over 'accomplished' (18) players, and 18 cannot even be later trained to 20.
6. Try to sign or train up players in line with the ~140 PA ideal attribute templates if really want to optimize things.
7. Avoid dirty players. Worry less about consistency, injury proneness, set pieces. Get a captain GK.
(...)
, something as low and simple as 8 pace/acc min can be enough to separate the wheat from the chaff,
1. As far as I can see good physical progress can be observed at u19 players. If You buy 20 yo player with pace/acc 8 You lose your money.
What's more if You have money to buy 140 PA young players there's no need to risk with very slow (speed 8) 18-20 yo players (BTW if you don't cheat with GS You don't know CA/PA
2. I would say determination is in a way more important because I dont remember players with professionalism 6-7, and not talking about less (I always try to search minimum in my teams for my information) but determination 2-3 is quite often in lower leagues - and drastically slower youngster progress - there is a hope for such a player but if you are not desperate dont risk with him.
5. You can change natural position and reach a new one to level 20 . Especially if You have a good newgen playing as CB with aerial reach ~9 you should do it. Apart from everything else aerial coaching doesnt work good.
6. If (IF!) You have money - why not.
7. Avoid players with low mental - concentration, compassion, determination have a great impact and are really hard to improve. From my experience GK with low consistency is a fail. Injury proneness IS important if You dont have good subs - on the other hand a game is buggy and player with this attribute 5 can have (in 4 years time) more injuries then the one with 15 - but statistically it is important, though You dont see these numbers without GS.
And maybe I'm wrong , but I have an impression that in FM24 loaning above-average young players to lower leagues doesnt work very good because their progress is capped by the league level.
[Hate this bombastic style]
Actually a great part of video games has a set of meta attributes making most of game concepts worthless, nobody blames them for that, and I mean top games with universal acclaim, FM24 is not the only one here, so just deal with it instead of complaining.
Actually a great part of video games has a set of meta attributes making most of game concepts worthless, nobody blames them for that, and I mean top games with universal acclaim, FM24 is not the only one here, so just deal with it instead of complaining.
By the way we have the same trend in real life where players are more and more phycical.
Does traits trainig reduce basic training effect? - I don't know. Do these trained traits have any real impact? - hard to say. I train defenders to stay on our half of the pitch and see them on the other regularly.
(Genuine answear) I did. And also noticed, what You didn't, that author wrote: he signs weak (because lack of other possibilities) but already quick youngsters to boost them to 18-20, as from slow it would take too much time or never. You mixed two orders: one by speed and the other by PA. I played some seasons in lower spanish leagues using rest-scheme for U-19 with really very poor trainers and weak facilities and from my observation if a player is naturally slow he rather won't progress very much, You won't get a hit from a shit, even with good deter+prof+ambit - and all my youngsters were at start 15 not 17. On the other site if he is just over average he will by at 21 good/very good (as for speed). If he is quick he will be 18-20.
But as lasko said it ruins other attr. - they can be rebuild easier than lack of quickness at 22, but not so easy. So when pace= 14-15 or at the age of 18 player should be moved to other training group.
BTW I have not-even-18-year old left defense with pace/acc 18 (progress ~5), quite decent stamina, drib, conc and good workload and his CA is about 90 and PA <110 - it's the question of the appropriate balance (only jumping is hard to find for cheap prices). What's interesting his attributes weren't ruined so much in rest training (question of luck, I think)
By the way in that league You wont attract many youngsters with 120+ PA unless hard cheating with GenieScout
I just think it should be anyhow marked if a score your calculator gives a user (no matter which way it's calculated) is based on (very) unprecise data. If an attribute, especially very important one, has a range 5-12 you sholdnt just put 9.
By the way (and that's one of the reasons, why above suggestion) maybe it's only my impression, but when a given range of an attribute is, let's say, 12-18, real value is more often 12-14 than 16-18 - I invite for tests many players with acceleration "12-18" and maybe 2 of them proved to have real acc value over 15 (a few 15 and none 18)
Sure
I would add in players in range view info about % of knowledge, it is crucial - now we get all of them as certain positions. And maybe about status of their contract too (same in scouted).
Unfortunately FM has a problem with printing to html when there is more then 250 names on the list, but of course its not Your fault.
every position low workload (1-3) and average- speed attackers - definitely no,
every position very low concentration (1-2) and average- jumping reach central defenders- only if necessary,
OC there are a few good players with these attributes but no need to try.