What to believe? Some time ago harvestgreen tested that Vision has a distinct positive impact in a range 10-20 and no impact in a range 0-10. And now I see (and the very same harvestgreen): positive in 1-6 and light negative 6-18 ???
Yes, I know what You meant. But results (win, loss, draw. Not numbers) are predetermined (if they are) with some probability, connected to a team quality for example. So if You play one match x time, you will get a proportion of results (no matter in which moment outcome is set). As I know, hypothesis says about recalculating after subs - that's why I suggested no subs.
If, when doing nothing, you get very similar results to helping as much as You can, and to disturbing as much as you can - this means that a) outcome is calculated at the beginning; b) shouts and a speech in a halftime have no impact [ and c) probe is too small, of course - but that would mean that a possible impact is very, very small too ]; And if there is a clear difference - a) outcome is calculated during match ; b) shouts have impact; c) a speech has impact; d) both; e) all . Of course an opponent of the same level would be the best option. 10 times for each model is a small number but I suppose that it could be enough.
Yarema said: There is no way to actually test this in game... Expand Actually I see a way to test it (or shouts' effectiveness) - but definitely not me! One match, 20 repeats, no subs: 10x You made possibly detrimental shouting , 10x You shout in a best possible way - f.e. every 10 min. praise all when in lead , encourage when not). Of course great or idiotic speach in-between.
It's not so hard to accept such an outcome predetermination - we are cheated by this game in so many ways . And quite often I have an impression that an outcome is already set - in my previous post I meant, it is not set , say, one hour before the match (in a beginning of a match - maybe).
PS Some highlights from interesting matches have nothing special in them.
MeanOnSunday said: The number of higher PA players each year also depends on the players that have left the database of active players since the game tries to maintain stable levels of good players in each country. (This is why there tends to be a noticeable jump in high PA recruits in the first year of a save or when you add playable leagues). Expand Would be interesting but do you have any proof? This hypothesis doesn't perfectly fit to the situation because what bothered me, was nearly the same max PA in every probe, nearly the same number of players with high PA>=150, but always PA<160 (though youth rating was set at 200). So if it is generated in such a way as you write, newgens' PA should be also connected with retired players' PA from country X, what I doubt, because lowering youth rating to 1 I got newgens of PA~70 with highest club reputation in a country.
BTW I didnt change any clubs' reputation, but I doubt recruitment works in "your" way (When high-rep, You collect bad players from bad-reputation clubs).
GeorgeFloydOverdosed said: From what I've read, the game's outcome is essentially pre-determined the moment you enter the match with your selected players (...) Expand From many cheats I tried I must say it's not true. Unless you meant "probability of an outcome".
To the topic - I don't see great difference between assistant and me on a bench in a result. But the difference is in subs, and they make unbelivable players' selection if You let them (unless you have all players very good and rounded)
GeorgeFloydOverdosed said: Junior coaching ~40% PA effect Nation youth rating ~25% PA effect Youth recruitment ~25% PA effect Club reputation acts as tie breaker for youth recruitment Either unique nation or division ID ~25% (or perhaps even more) PA effect (a hidden, unchangeable factor Expand Sorry for digging up old posts, but good estimation - lately made some tests with nation rating. Having clearly best reputation, coaching 20, recruitment 20, youth rating 200 , best swiss newgen was always (~15 times) >150-<160 - not very much randomness, I would even say PA of best five boys was quite regular (btw with rating 1 dropped to >70-<75). I don't suppose this hidden factor is mysterious "football's popularity", which effects no one knows, but rather other more hidden factor.
bigloser said: There is no cap based on league rep , I’ve seen videos of people locking 200 pa players in like Australia and them hitting it. Expand I would say, there is definitely a kind of league/country cap. To be true, it's somehow strange to hit 200 PA anywhere. And accidentaly just before cam. I really dont know what kind of edition was made besides locking PA on 200 (or what 200 PA means in attributes). On the other hand Australia has in FM24 same reputation like Romania or Turkey and better then Serbia.
I have u21 manager and I can manage team selection. Same u18. Dont have u19 manager and same result. I think selection is always made if you don't do it. And really don't know what's the function of all these managers and assistants. Do they have any job or are they just individuals to spend money on , make nice background and nothing more? (And don't say about arranging frendlies , in this they really suck) ok they can act as a coach (with some exceptions not the best one).
This game is so buggy that it depends which team You pick But generally U19 should copy first team tactic without possibility to change it by anybody and when you get an information about match next day, You can modify a team - same reserve. Selection made in that moment shows on the pitch. Or made in time between the information and midnight. But if You play bugged team, sometimes Reserve plays their own tactics, sometimes doesn't see none of reserve players and plays only match generated-ones, and sometimes ignore your selection of players for a match. It also takes bench-players from other teams. And sometimes You can manage U19 just like first team, watch their matches and make subs and other changes during match
toiletfootball said: The meta seems to be quickness+match practice+attacking x 2 + individual focus quickness Expand I'm not so sure. It develops many unimportant attributes for high CA cost and even so doesn't give very good speed gain
harvestgreen22 said: You will see the list sorted by Scores. The ones selected are all training schedules with significant improvements in CA. Its advantages are: (...) Its disadvantages are: (...) Due to these limitations, I am very hesitant about how to choose a "universal" training schedule that can accommodate all kinds of situations. Expand Yes, exactly. Simple match score ranking is good if You have loads of youngsters with great potential and big PA-CA. That is You play as something like Barcelona. On the other hand the problem with just Quickness schedule is , that it leaves unused big part of PA if You have better newgens.
And that's why : B. There is a factor to use: CA gain divided by match score (the less the better) which tells us how effectively PA is changed into match score . For example Quickness (alone) training has this factor quite low (11.68 after *10k), but Resistance and Endurance lower. And lowest (=most effective using PA-CA points) is Match Review training which, by the way, gives biggest acceleration+pace gain (AP=7.18) what is strange to me Using this factor You can decide how fast You want to gain CA and also how efficiently to change PA into match score. For example [Physical][Tactical] has decent Match Score grow and decent change effectiveness (14.55) but only good acc+pace (AP=6.04) grow so I would rather choose [Physical][Quickness][Transition Restrict] (14.18, AP=6.50)
But if one : C. calculates match score for GK table and make a mark on general table, it turns out, that [Physical][Tactical] is quite a bad schedule for goalkeepers. (But still better than just Quickness). All becomes very complicate but if you care about GK - [Physical][Quickness][Resistance][Aerial Defence] is nice for GK and fairly effective in PA match score conversion (14.07, AP 6.09). or similar [Physical]x2[Chance Conversion] (14.04, 6.19)
harvestgreen22 said: excel(part 5, the newest ) Expand What is "Game preset training 1" in this xls sheet?
I connected all attributes (not only main but even not important) with level of importance , using https://fm-arena.com/thread/13685-current-24-4-latest-version-full-attribute-test-52000-match-samples/ - just took 0,1 of grow 1-20 as 1 point (I know it's not linear), make some excel magic and most effective, when all attributes weighted, are (all quickness focus): 1. Handling, Shot Stopping, Attacking, Physical, Chance Conversion, Aerial Defence, Ground Defence and Distribution 2. Game preset training 1 - I don't know what it is 3. [Physical][Quickness][Attacking]x3 4. [Quickness][Attacking][Transition Restrict] 5. [Physical][Match Practice][Chance Conversion]
Robbo84FM said: just focus on getting a good number of the best fitness coaches possible? Expand Not so easy. As far as I know You get just best coach level and work level and that's all . If you have 100 coaches with 4 stars you are worse then one four-and-half star coach assisted by one-star nobody.
It looks like maybe the best schedule for all the team (!) is 1xGK unit : One on Ones or Distribution (problem with reflexes) great pace, acc, good aerial reach and dribbling>0 That's little bit strange, because a description of this unit, like all GK units, is: GK do 1-on-1 and the rest of the team do role_specific_schedule. But maybe I'm wrong and this one has other system, and of course "reality" is not equal FM description .
Did You set roles for players for this tests ? Or left it empy (from position)
toiletfootball said: I never play with big teams so I don't know if you can win the CL regularly in the first season with, say, Real Madrid. Expand Played once and with Chelsea it was not so easy not to win CL 3-4 goals ahead was normal result in last stages - quarter, semi and final.
MeanOnSunday said: Champions League is a knockout competition with the highest level of competition, so of course this will be the most difficult to win. If you have any players who don’t like big games, can’t handle pressure, are inconsistent, then this is the maximum test for them. Expand But we are talking about situation where you easily and regularly win with same level opponents in your league. And your players don't have big mental problems like all team pressure 1-4 , important matches 2.
toiletfootball said: I suspect the game just won't let you win the UEFA Champions League as a smaller club for the first four of five seasons you're in it.(That old chestnut about scripted outcomes again) ... At least that has been my experience across a number of different saves over the years. Any thoughts appreciated. Expand I have the same impression. Every time players all of the sudden play like a bunch of twats no matter what You will say before a match and no matter how they played a few days before and will play a few days after.
harvestgreen22 said: In the training schedule, If you can't find it, I'll then set the game to English and take screenshots. Expand I just don't see any match arrangement in a training schedule. Only I can see is arrange friendly in a calendar.
lucailvotto said: Anyway, I still can’t understand how you manage to get physical monsters… at best I can only get a few players up to 16. in fm24 Expand More (maybe not 20/20) is fairly possible but not in 3-4 years time as for me. Even when buying fast, young players. Do you - I mean harvestgreen22 for example - edit coaches or training objects or prof level?
Don't feed
If, when doing nothing, you get very similar results to helping as much as You can, and to disturbing as much as you can - this means that a) outcome is calculated at the beginning; b) shouts and a speech in a halftime have no impact [ and c) probe is too small, of course - but that would mean that a possible impact is very, very small too ]; And if there is a clear difference - a) outcome is calculated during match ; b) shouts have impact; c) a speech has impact; d) both; e) all . Of course an opponent of the same level would be the best option. 10 times for each model is a small number but I suppose that it could be enough.
Actually I see a way to test it (or shouts' effectiveness) - but definitely not me!
One match, 20 repeats, no subs: 10x You made possibly detrimental shouting , 10x You shout in a best possible way - f.e. every 10 min. praise all when in lead , encourage when not). Of course great or idiotic speach in-between.
It's not so hard to accept such an outcome predetermination - we are cheated by this game in so many ways
PS Some highlights from interesting matches have nothing special in them.
Would be interesting but do you have any proof?
This hypothesis doesn't perfectly fit to the situation because what bothered me, was nearly the same max PA in every probe, nearly the same number of players with high PA>=150, but always PA<160 (though youth rating was set at 200). So if it is generated in such a way as you write, newgens' PA should be also connected with retired players' PA from country X, what I doubt, because lowering youth rating to 1 I got newgens of PA~70 with highest club reputation in a country.
BTW I didnt change any clubs' reputation, but I doubt recruitment works in "your" way (When high-rep, You collect bad players from bad-reputation clubs).
From many cheats I tried
To the topic - I don't see great difference between assistant and me on a bench in a result. But the difference is in subs, and they make unbelivable players' selection if You let them (unless you have all players very good and rounded)
Nation youth rating ~25% PA effect
Youth recruitment ~25% PA effect
Club reputation acts as tie breaker for youth recruitment
Either unique nation or division ID ~25% (or perhaps even more) PA effect (a hidden, unchangeable factor
Sorry for digging up old posts, but good estimation - lately made some tests with nation rating. Having clearly best reputation, coaching 20, recruitment 20, youth rating 200 , best swiss newgen was always (~15 times) >150-<160 - not very much randomness, I would even say PA of best five boys was quite regular (btw with rating 1 dropped to >70-<75). I don't suppose this hidden factor is mysterious "football's popularity", which effects no one knows, but rather other more hidden factor.
I would say, there is definitely a kind of league/country cap.
To be true, it's somehow strange to hit 200 PA anywhere. And accidentaly just before cam. I really dont know what kind of edition was made besides locking PA on 200 (or what 200 PA means in attributes).
On the other hand Australia has in FM24 same reputation like Romania or Turkey and better then Serbia.
But if You play bugged team, sometimes Reserve plays their own tactics, sometimes doesn't see none of reserve players and plays only match generated-ones, and sometimes ignore your selection of players for a match. It also takes bench-players from other teams.
And sometimes You can manage U19 just like first team, watch their matches and make subs and other changes during match
I'm not so sure. It develops many unimportant attributes for high CA cost and even so doesn't give very good speed gain
You have such a position in training options. Available only next day after a match
Its advantages are:
(...)
Its disadvantages are:
(...)
Due to these limitations, I am very hesitant about how to choose a "universal" training schedule that can accommodate all kinds of situations.
Yes, exactly. Simple match score ranking is good if You have loads of youngsters with great potential and big PA-CA. That is You play as something like Barcelona. On the other hand the problem with just Quickness schedule is , that it leaves unused big part of PA if You have better newgens.
And that's why :
B. There is a factor to use: CA gain divided by match score (the less the better) which tells us how effectively PA is changed into match score . For example Quickness (alone) training has this factor quite low (11.68 after *10k), but Resistance and Endurance lower. And lowest (=most effective using PA-CA points) is Match Review training which, by the way, gives biggest acceleration+pace gain (AP=7.18) what is strange to me
But if one :
C. calculates match score for GK table and make a mark on general table, it turns out, that [Physical][Tactical] is quite a bad schedule for goalkeepers. (But still better than just Quickness). All becomes very complicate but if you care about GK - [Physical][Quickness][Resistance][Aerial Defence] is nice for GK and fairly effective in PA match score conversion (14.07, AP 6.09). or similar [Physical]x2[Chance Conversion] (14.04, 6.19)
xls with table
What is "Game preset training 1" in this xls sheet?
I connected all attributes (not only main but even not important) with level of importance , using https://fm-arena.com/thread/13685-current-24-4-latest-version-full-attribute-test-52000-match-samples/ - just took 0,1 of grow 1-20 as 1 point (I know it's not linear), make some excel magic and most effective, when all attributes weighted, are (all quickness focus):
1. Handling, Shot Stopping, Attacking, Physical, Chance Conversion, Aerial Defence, Ground Defence and Distribution
2. Game preset training 1 - I don't know what it is
3. [Physical][Quickness][Attacking]x3
4. [Quickness][Attacking][Transition Restrict]
5. [Physical][Match Practice][Chance Conversion]
Robbo84FM said: just focus on getting a good number of the best fitness coaches possible?
Not so easy. As far as I know You get just best coach level and work level and that's all . If you have 100 coaches with 4 stars you are worse then one four-and-half star coach assisted by one-star nobody.
It looks like maybe the best schedule for all the team (!) is 1xGK unit : One on Ones or Distribution (problem with reflexes)
That's little bit strange, because a description of this unit, like all GK units, is: GK do 1-on-1 and the rest of the team do role_specific_schedule. But maybe I'm wrong and this one has other system, and of course "reality" is not equal FM description .
Did You set roles for players for this tests ? Or left it empy (from position)
Played once and with Chelsea it was not so easy not to win CL
3-4 goals ahead was normal result in last stages - quarter, semi and final.
But we are talking about situation where you easily and regularly win with same level opponents in your league. And your players don't have big mental problems like all team pressure 1-4 , important matches 2.
I have the same impression. Every time players all of the sudden play like a bunch of twats no matter what You will say before a match and no matter how they played a few days before and will play a few days after.
I just don't see any match arrangement in a training schedule. Only I can see is arrange friendly in a calendar.
lucailvotto said: Anyway, I still can’t understand how you manage to get physical monsters… at best I can only get a few players up to 16. in fm24
More (maybe not 20/20) is fairly possible but not in 3-4 years time as for me. Even when buying fast, young players. Do you - I mean harvestgreen22 for example - edit coaches or training objects or prof level?
You mean to arrange friendly?