toiletfootball said: The meta seems to be quickness+match practice+attacking x 2 + individual focus quickness Expand I'm not so sure. It develops many unimportant attributes for high CA cost and even so doesn't give very good speed gain
harvestgreen22 said: You will see the list sorted by Scores. The ones selected are all training schedules with significant improvements in CA. Its advantages are: (...) Its disadvantages are: (...) Due to these limitations, I am very hesitant about how to choose a "universal" training schedule that can accommodate all kinds of situations. Expand Yes, exactly. Simple match score ranking is good if You have loads of youngsters with great potential and big PA-CA. That is You play as something like Barcelona. On the other hand the problem with just Quickness schedule is , that it leaves unused big part of PA if You have better newgens.
And that's why : B. There is a factor to use: CA gain divided by match score (the less the better) which tells us how effectively PA is changed into match score . For example Quickness (alone) training has this factor quite low (11.68 after *10k), but Resistance and Endurance lower. And lowest (=most effective using PA-CA points) is Match Review training which, by the way, gives biggest acceleration+pace gain (AP=7.18) what is strange to me Using this factor You can decide how fast You want to gain CA and also how efficiently to change PA into match score. For example [Physical][Tactical] has decent Match Score grow and decent change effectiveness (14.55) but only good acc+pace (AP=6.04) grow so I would rather choose [Physical][Quickness][Transition Restrict] (14.18, AP=6.50)
But if one : C. calculates match score for GK table and make a mark on general table, it turns out, that [Physical][Tactical] is quite a bad schedule for goalkeepers. (But still better than just Quickness). All becomes very complicate but if you care about GK - [Physical][Quickness][Resistance][Aerial Defence] is nice for GK and fairly effective in PA match score conversion (14.07, AP 6.09). or similar [Physical]x2[Chance Conversion] (14.04, 6.19)
harvestgreen22 said: excel(part 5, the newest ) Expand What is "Game preset training 1" in this xls sheet?
I connected all attributes (not only main but even not important) with level of importance , using https://fm-arena.com/thread/13685-current-24-4-latest-version-full-attribute-test-52000-match-samples/ - just took 0,1 of grow 1-20 as 1 point (I know it's not linear), make some excel magic and most effective, when all attributes weighted, are (all quickness focus): 1. Handling, Shot Stopping, Attacking, Physical, Chance Conversion, Aerial Defence, Ground Defence and Distribution 2. Game preset training 1 - I don't know what it is 3. [Physical][Quickness][Attacking]x3 4. [Quickness][Attacking][Transition Restrict] 5. [Physical][Match Practice][Chance Conversion]
Robbo84FM said: just focus on getting a good number of the best fitness coaches possible? Expand Not so easy. As far as I know You get just best coach level and work level and that's all . If you have 100 coaches with 4 stars you are worse then one four-and-half star coach assisted by one-star nobody.
It looks like maybe the best schedule for all the team (!) is 1xGK unit : One on Ones or Distribution (problem with reflexes) great pace, acc, good aerial reach and dribbling>0 That's little bit strange, because a description of this unit, like all GK units, is: GK do 1-on-1 and the rest of the team do role_specific_schedule. But maybe I'm wrong and this one has other system, and of course "reality" is not equal FM description .
Did You set roles for players for this tests ? Or left it empy (from position)
toiletfootball said: I never play with big teams so I don't know if you can win the CL regularly in the first season with, say, Real Madrid. Expand Played once and with Chelsea it was not so easy not to win CL 3-4 goals ahead was normal result in last stages - quarter, semi and final.
MeanOnSunday said: Champions League is a knockout competition with the highest level of competition, so of course this will be the most difficult to win. If you have any players who don’t like big games, can’t handle pressure, are inconsistent, then this is the maximum test for them. Expand But we are talking about situation where you easily and regularly win with same level opponents in your league. And your players don't have big mental problems like all team pressure 1-4 , important matches 2.
toiletfootball said: I suspect the game just won't let you win the UEFA Champions League as a smaller club for the first four of five seasons you're in it.(That old chestnut about scripted outcomes again) ... At least that has been my experience across a number of different saves over the years. Any thoughts appreciated. Expand I have the same impression. Every time players all of the sudden play like a bunch of twats no matter what You will say before a match and no matter how they played a few days before and will play a few days after.
harvestgreen22 said: In the training schedule, If you can't find it, I'll then set the game to English and take screenshots. Expand I just don't see any match arrangement in a training schedule. Only I can see is arrange friendly in a calendar.
lucailvotto said: Anyway, I still can’t understand how you manage to get physical monsters… at best I can only get a few players up to 16. in fm24 Expand More (maybe not 20/20) is fairly possible but not in 3-4 years time as for me. Even when buying fast, young players. Do you - I mean harvestgreen22 for example - edit coaches or training objects or prof level?
How do you get 18x recovery? Do You paste a schedule with recovery unitson to already planned recovery? By the way - Stupid AI tries to change your training from time to time but quite often - do You have any way to deal with it?
Interesting . "My" trainning was default training or rest/speed training or mixed - depends on year. I'm certain I'm right but really don't know how it works - definitely it's not so simple and that's what I knew. Maybe it concerns newgens, maybe Gibraltar is somehow british. On the other side, from my experience, You sholdnt reach CA 182 in such a weak league as Gibraltarian (Vanarama or anything similar).
Second thing that bothers me in Your simulation is this great jump of Gibraltar from 202 to 152 in 4 years. Because I was a coach of Liechtenstein too (and we know how awfully stupid coach is FM AI), won most matches (nearly all with better (as for ranking) some with much, much better opponents), drawed the rest (ok, lost to England twice and to Macedonia once), arranged all possible frendlies (and won all of them) and jumped (4 years too from 200_and_sth) only to 130 or sth like this
They were north korean BUT played in Algerian league which is not bad, so could get much better CA than in FC Pyongjang . These north korean players with PA 170 are strange - don't You think?
And it's not a hypothesis. I played with FC Vaduz, had very good training utilities, saw PA of youngsters (up to 140, with sufficient prof and determination) and saw their CA after years of training : all <82 . What's more I bought Liechtensteiner 18 y.o. youngster who was newgen in a swiss elite club (PA 130, prof 18, ambition 18, determination 19) with CA 97 after two years of training in Switzerland and it was much more than every young player in Vaduz (though some of mine were regular players of the first team of top level league!! and he of course was not) . After one year in my club he was still 97 , and in that time I had best training utilities and coaches in swiss superleague.
Eddie said: 2 PA defines the ceiling — not the pace or the direction Expand
Worth saying that the ceiling is defined by country and league too. For example If You played as chinese club You could buy a high-PA chinese newgen generated somewhere else - or even could be lucky and get one, don't know if it's possible - but he will not progress in Your chinese club over a preset limit (about 70?). And same: if You played as Liechtensteiner club, You would get decent (but not great) newgens because You play in a swiss league but they dont cross 80 CA in Liechtenstein until they have second nationality (not sure here). You can loan players to Swiss club to get better CA it will not lower after return. Or wait until Liechtenstein/China/Andorra/sth else get better country rating after many succesful seasons.
GeorgeFloydOverdosed said: DL/DR - (...) work 6 DM - (...) work 6 AML/AMR - (...) work 6 ST - (...) work 6 Expand I think it was HarvestGreen22, who proposed, after testing , not to accept field players under 7 work rate because of fatal negative impact. This attributes in italics for these positions (presume the rest are ok too) will be actually nearly impossible to find outside the editor or top stars, I'm afraid. And with such unreal demandings You still didn't get jumping for ST and only 13 pac/acc and 12 for DC?
I mean - if all that players do is rest and speed training how do You get good goalkeepers, appropriate for a world cup? Do they get sufficient attributes just from playing? Acceleration is not enough for GK. You need agility . And maybe secondly reflex and aerial reach . And 1 on 1 and handling as third. I talk about FM24 , but dont see the difference with FM26.
GeorgeFloydOverdosed said: If I search in genie scout for players >140 PA w/ det 10< I get 472 players, 598 for pro 10<. So I still think it's clear if you had to choose one to search for, it would be high professionalism. Expand
Check how many do you have newgens/players with det<5 and then how many with prof<5 - then we can talk - btw 9/10 are medium values - of course if tests are not only editor generated theory. And not only PA>140 because this filter information is nothing. Especially if applied to newgens.
harvestgreen22 said: I used "full rest training", and several years later, the players were all at about 20 Pace and 20 Acceleration. (...) The result was great: the game started in 2023. Win the UEFA Champions League titles in 2026,2027,2028,2029 and 2030. The champion of the 2030 World Cup Expand Nice, but what about goalkeepers?
GeorgeFloydOverdosed said: Hard to say if it's better, the results are so close it could be just statistical noise Expand If it was only one try for each schedule I wouldn't bother results so much but: - seems strange, that 5 sessions a week gave 2.5x more injuries then 4 sessions a week - aerial defence has no effect on jumping reach, aerial reach nor heading. But no absurd or strange bug in this game will astonish me.
I'm not so sure. It develops many unimportant attributes for high CA cost and even so doesn't give very good speed gain
You have such a position in training options. Available only next day after a match
Its advantages are:
(...)
Its disadvantages are:
(...)
Due to these limitations, I am very hesitant about how to choose a "universal" training schedule that can accommodate all kinds of situations.
Yes, exactly. Simple match score ranking is good if You have loads of youngsters with great potential and big PA-CA. That is You play as something like Barcelona. On the other hand the problem with just Quickness schedule is , that it leaves unused big part of PA if You have better newgens.
And that's why :
B. There is a factor to use: CA gain divided by match score (the less the better) which tells us how effectively PA is changed into match score . For example Quickness (alone) training has this factor quite low (11.68 after *10k), but Resistance and Endurance lower. And lowest (=most effective using PA-CA points) is Match Review training which, by the way, gives biggest acceleration+pace gain (AP=7.18) what is strange to me
But if one :
C. calculates match score for GK table and make a mark on general table, it turns out, that [Physical][Tactical] is quite a bad schedule for goalkeepers. (But still better than just Quickness). All becomes very complicate but if you care about GK - [Physical][Quickness][Resistance][Aerial Defence] is nice for GK and fairly effective in PA match score conversion (14.07, AP 6.09). or similar [Physical]x2[Chance Conversion] (14.04, 6.19)
xls with table
What is "Game preset training 1" in this xls sheet?
I connected all attributes (not only main but even not important) with level of importance , using https://fm-arena.com/thread/13685-current-24-4-latest-version-full-attribute-test-52000-match-samples/ - just took 0,1 of grow 1-20 as 1 point (I know it's not linear), make some excel magic and most effective, when all attributes weighted, are (all quickness focus):
1. Handling, Shot Stopping, Attacking, Physical, Chance Conversion, Aerial Defence, Ground Defence and Distribution
2. Game preset training 1 - I don't know what it is
3. [Physical][Quickness][Attacking]x3
4. [Quickness][Attacking][Transition Restrict]
5. [Physical][Match Practice][Chance Conversion]
Robbo84FM said: just focus on getting a good number of the best fitness coaches possible?
Not so easy. As far as I know You get just best coach level and work level and that's all . If you have 100 coaches with 4 stars you are worse then one four-and-half star coach assisted by one-star nobody.
It looks like maybe the best schedule for all the team (!) is 1xGK unit : One on Ones or Distribution (problem with reflexes)
That's little bit strange, because a description of this unit, like all GK units, is: GK do 1-on-1 and the rest of the team do role_specific_schedule. But maybe I'm wrong and this one has other system, and of course "reality" is not equal FM description .
Did You set roles for players for this tests ? Or left it empy (from position)
Played once and with Chelsea it was not so easy not to win CL
3-4 goals ahead was normal result in last stages - quarter, semi and final.
But we are talking about situation where you easily and regularly win with same level opponents in your league. And your players don't have big mental problems like all team pressure 1-4 , important matches 2.
I have the same impression. Every time players all of the sudden play like a bunch of twats no matter what You will say before a match and no matter how they played a few days before and will play a few days after.
I just don't see any match arrangement in a training schedule. Only I can see is arrange friendly in a calendar.
lucailvotto said: Anyway, I still can’t understand how you manage to get physical monsters… at best I can only get a few players up to 16. in fm24
More (maybe not 20/20) is fairly possible but not in 3-4 years time as for me. Even when buying fast, young players. Do you - I mean harvestgreen22 for example - edit coaches or training objects or prof level?
You mean to arrange friendly?
By the way - Stupid AI tries to change your training from time to time but quite often - do You have any way to deal with it?
I'm certain I'm right but really don't know how it works - definitely it's not so simple and that's what I knew. Maybe it concerns newgens, maybe Gibraltar is somehow british. On the other side, from my experience, You sholdnt reach CA 182 in such a weak league as Gibraltarian (Vanarama or anything similar).
Second thing that bothers me in Your simulation is this great jump of Gibraltar from 202 to 152 in 4 years. Because I was a coach of Liechtenstein too (and we know how awfully stupid coach is FM AI), won most matches (nearly all with better (as for ranking) some with much, much better opponents), drawed the rest (ok, lost to England twice and to Macedonia once), arranged all possible frendlies (and won all of them) and jumped (4 years too from 200_and_sth) only to 130 or sth like this
And it's not a hypothesis.
I played with FC Vaduz, had very good training utilities, saw PA of youngsters (up to 140, with sufficient prof and determination) and saw their CA after years of training : all <82 . What's more I bought Liechtensteiner 18 y.o. youngster who was newgen in a swiss elite club (PA 130, prof 18, ambition 18, determination 19) with CA 97 after two years of training in Switzerland and it was much more than every young player in Vaduz (though some of mine were regular players of the first team of top level league!! and he of course was not) . After one year in my club he was still 97 , and in that time I had best training utilities and coaches in swiss superleague.
This game is like driving a tramway
Worth saying that the ceiling is defined by country and league too. For example If You played as chinese club You could buy a high-PA chinese newgen generated somewhere else - or even could be lucky and get one, don't know if it's possible - but he will not progress in Your chinese club over a preset limit (about 70?). And same: if You played as Liechtensteiner club, You would get decent (but not great) newgens because You play in a swiss league but they dont cross 80 CA in Liechtenstein until they have second nationality (not sure here). You can loan players to Swiss club to get better CA it will not lower after return. Or wait until Liechtenstein/China/Andorra/sth else get better country rating after many succesful seasons.
DM - (...) work 6
AML/AMR - (...) work 6
ST - (...) work 6
I think it was HarvestGreen22, who proposed, after testing , not to accept field players under 7 work rate because of fatal negative impact. This attributes in italics for these positions (presume the rest are ok too) will be actually nearly impossible to find outside the editor or top stars, I'm afraid. And with such unreal demandings You still didn't get jumping for ST and only 13 pac/acc and 12 for DC?
Acceleration is not enough for GK.
You need agility . And maybe secondly reflex and aerial reach . And 1 on 1 and handling as third.
I talk about FM24 , but dont see the difference with FM26.
Check how many do you have newgens/players with det<5 and then how many with prof<5 - then we can talk - btw 9/10 are medium values - of course if tests are not only editor generated theory. And not only PA>140 because this filter information is nothing. Especially if applied to newgens.
Nice, but what about goalkeepers?
If it was only one try for each schedule I wouldn't bother results so much but:
- seems strange, that 5 sessions a week gave 2.5x more injuries then 4 sessions a week
- aerial defence has no effect on jumping reach, aerial reach nor heading. But no absurd or strange bug in this game will astonish me.