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Sandro said: Ok, if we want to refrain from double standards in our approach then you have to explain me this

On 2nd February, @ZaZ released his "ZaZ - Blue 3.2 AW" tactic, which topped the table.

https://fm-arena.com/tactic/2573-zaz-blue-3-2-aw/



then 3 days later on 5th February Knap released his Warrior tactic that looked very similar to ZaZ's Blue tactic



and on 9th May, Knap released another tactic that looked almost exactly like ZaZ's Blue tactic




I really don't see that Knap giving ZaZ any credit.

What do you think about it?

P.S. also, look at this FM22 tactic by Johnsariman... don't you find any similarities?

https://fm-arena.com/tactic/2703-the-airplane-by-johnsariman-v3-blue-tweak/


Jeff just showed he's been using that shape years before zaz cooked up the zaz blue, so you just shot yourself in the foot

Madasahatter has been around since fm21 and anyone the instructions are different with zaz using less tactica instructions and pulling the dlp into a rpm role.

The tactic MaKeSure made, is an exact replica of knap tactic with the exact same instructions, where I think only the set pieces have been changed.

I'll be loading a tactic very soon on here and I hope you guys enjoy, it better be tested and I don't want to hear anyone cry to me about credits
Pumpkin said: Can we not all agree to disagree, you guys are arguing over and over again and over a game at the end of the day. Clearly everyones view and opinions on this topic are set in stone and wont change and also threats and insults are not ways to try convince someone of your viewpoint or if you believe they did something wrong as instead of the issues being addressed or any middle ground being come to this thread has turned into a bunch of high school level insults being thrown back and forth and a toxic culture brewing thanks to it.

Well there is no real debate to be had. Knap released a tactic on 23rd of October and 4 days later MakeSure manages to produce the exact same replica of player and team instructions.

What middle ground should we take, that we should be allowed to use eachothers tactics claim it as our own, and have it tested?

I might just do that and if anyone wants to flag me about it, they can be directed to this thread and I expect it to get tested.
rego8 said: knap lover i didnt say the forum is tired of him i said people

Where are these people? They are on the forum you fool, so you are speaking for others, and now threatening violence all because someone called out a plagiariser.

You're making a mess of yourself; you should just log off right now.
rego8 said: this is why i dont like sites where knap is involved he spams the site with 1 million tactics and has his toxic followers beating down on anyone who gets close to his tactics
what im really trying to say jeffdekker is piss off with your toxic shit back to knap before you get decked people are tired of you


Who's tired of him? He's been here just over a day, so how can you talk on behalf of everyone on the forum?

There are no followers, I've explained there are people plagiarising other people's work and it's not just knap tactics but youtubers as well. They're all getting called out, so stop the victim bullshit.

If the tactic looks the same, with the same team instructions, same formation shape, same player instructions and only one or two things changed, then somebody is using another person's work and passing it as their own which deserves taking down.

Since it happens to be the no 1 tactic on this site, it's going to get attention and when I was sent the knap tactic before this westhammer was released I noticed everything was the same. So what is the chance of someone creating the exact same tactic with one guy being somewhere in asia and some guy in Europe?
ZaZ said: When someone does a tweak to their tactics, like version 2.0, and the only difference is that they copied the set pieces from mine, then I believe credits should be given, like "Changed to the tactics used by ZaZ". I don't know why that sounds so absurd to you.

Anyway, I play FM for fun, not to get stressed, and I believe you are all blowing this out of proportion and making the environment uncomfortable to everyone. Users are also responsible for keeping the page enjoyable. There are proper channels to deal with issues, and if you don't use those channels, then you are becoming another issue that people have to deal. Remember that no one is saying the problem shouldn't be addressed, we are just telling to solve the problem without creating chaos in the page.


It doesn't sound absurd, in fact I backed you up on that when people were doing that, but don't be a hypocrite and act like it's a sin to publicly call out plagiarism without giving credit when you complained about a similar issue which was even such as set piece routine in public.

I know someone who has stopped producing content for fm within the community due to several plagiarisers using their ideas and not giving credit. I'd rather make a few people feel uncomfortable than see another gifted creator stop producing content because they are sick and tired of seeing their hard work stolen
ZaZ said: Look, the discussion of plagiarism is nice and all, but it's not the type of matter that should be solved by fighting and making the issue public. My suggestion to handle those situations is to first contact the person with DM to make sure they know there is a similar tactic, and only if the issue is not solved people should bring it to the admins through the proper thread that was created. There is absolutely no need to bring issues to the admins if they can be solved with a simple DM to the user, which anyone can do.

You're just a member like everyone else right, so you all people shouldn't be preaching about how to go through the correct channels, guidelines and regulations on how to go about reporting cases of plagiarism talking about doing things privately, especially when you yourself have publicly called out other tacticians for simply using your set pieces and not giving you credit.
MakeSuRE said: That's the truth. I made it in FM11 when I played with Sevilla.:goofy:

If it's your tactic it's all good, but I vividly remember you released a tactic which had crazy results and we found out you saved and reloaded over 79 times so forgive me if I found the westhammer4231 suspicious
Bogeyman said: Ohhh, is it that simple... you can just say "I created it long time ago" and it's over?

Then what we discuss here MakeSure also can say "I created it long time ago" and it should be over.


It's over
Bogeyman said: ok, show me that tactic he created years ago... I want to see it.

It's just what he told me at the time. Just remember at the time I was using zaz 4.0 and then a few weeks later similar shape formation come out with the same shape formation and spoke to him about it and that's the response I got.
Bogeyman said: That's what I was talking about.

Knap posted the exact copy of ZaZ's Blue tactic after ZaZ released but no one said a word...


I did say something and spoke with knap directly about it at the time as but then he said he made the tactic before with warrior years ago
MakeSuRE said: WestHammer series were made in fm22 and I uploaded it here last year, and I remade it in fm23. It feels really weird to be charged with plagiarism once it is named on the ranking list.
May I show u my vault of fakeļ¼Ÿ



Am I missing something, all those dates are from this year. Don't you think it's weird you have the exact same PI's and TI's same shape as this?

Did knap stole your tactic?
ME23.0HGF4231DMMCP104ALLCUPS.fmf
Downloaded : 47 times
Uploaded : Nov 10, 2022
Bogeyman said: I've seen many times Knap taking successful tactics from here or other places then making few tweaks( even sometimes almost an exact copy) and not giving any credits... but of course, Knap is allowed to do so?

You should call it out and show evidence of it then if he's copying an exact copy of someone elses tactic without giving credit

Standards should apply to everyone as people put a lot of time into creating and testing tactics, and its cheap to find out someone just copies it and presents it as their own.
MakeSuRE said: My nice-words reply under ur previous post was deleted by admin. Go and ask admin if he can show u what I told.

Once once once again, can I ask u who u r? You seems to think highly of yourself, believing that FM Arena would shut down without you? Come on boy, the earth spins no matter u do or not do anything.


lmao you can't just use someone Elses tactic and then steal the glory making it out as your own and just pray no one notices then when called out ''say come on boy the earth still spins' lmao. give credit and call it a tweak.

Follow the standards of your username and ''MakeSuRe'' you avoid plagiarising
Zippo said: The off topic has been removed.

@Jeffdekker, use a proper section for your issue.

Thank you.


Why are you deleting the guy's message exposing the author of this thread using another tactician's tactic?

Shouldn't you be removing/warning the guy who is stealing a tactic from knap?

I'm sure if I uploaded the same shape as ZAZ fire, with the exact same instructions passing it off as my own, with no credit given to zaz you'd be quick to rip it down or issue a warning in no time as I've seen it done before.

I was the one who flagged it up to Jeff and it fucks things up if people are just going to steal other tacticians work then claim credit for it and then be ranked top tactic that it calls everything into question
pixar said: @ZaZ

First match with 0.3 (CL semi final)


ZaZ said: Thank you for testing. Fire is just a new name for Blue in FM23. It is the same tactic, just converted to the new match engine.

For everyone else waiting, remember we are here just to have fun. I am checking some different instructions, and it's pretty hard to measure with precision when you don't have the editor to make testing more stable. One thing is to test instructions individually, another thing completely different is to test the synergy between two or more instructions. It takes time, even more when I can't make a special league to test yet.

Anyway, here is the best I came up to now. I am still trying to find some improvements before I start testing different formations and roles. Keep in mind that the difference is not very high, and might even be non-existent after I test with more precision, but right now, my tests say there is a difference statistically significant. Let me know how it works for you!


Good man