brainbox said: Do you use any OI with this? or do you delegate that to the assistant ? Expand
Not OP, but usually very few people use any OI with their tactics, as it can make some tactics act weird and you have to change them depending on opponent formation
Btw, conceding 5-10 goals from IFK per season might be pretty OK for your team. I mean when I play with Liverpool then the team usually concede only about 30 goals in the league at the end of a season so conceding 5-10 from indirect free kicks would pretty high if you are Liverpool but with Crystal Palace I conceded about 60 goals at the end of the season and with them conceding 5-10 goals from indirect free kicks seems OK. Expand
Nah, it's with like 60 conceded, just seemed a little off as I was testing 3 teams and all 3 of them were at the top of conceded from IFK. Leeds, Watford and Norwich, even though they finished 5th, 6th and 13th respectively
I seem to have trouble conceding a lot from IFK's in my tactics, leading the goals conceded from IFK's almost every single season. Any tips on how to improve this? My teams usually concede 5-10 goals a season from indirect free kicks.
I recommend grabbing an i5-10400F/11400F if you're on a budget, whatever's cheapest, as it's hands down the best value for money right now. A Ryzen 5 5600X would be the best mid-range option.
Now, on the topic of the matter, 3rd test finished. Watford slightly meh, but they did drop points every single match against my other teams, losing 2 times to Norwich and drawing Leeds twice as well. Leeds make Europe with 12th Media Pred. again, Norwich overperforming again and finishing 11th while predicted dead last.
EDIT: Just noticed Watford got almost same amount of points, just a really weird table this season. Not bad overall
EDIT2: This is Watford's xG and xGA. Insanely unlucky season.
CBP87 said: That'll take even longer to be honest because the game will be processing more leagues and cup competitions, how long is it taking you to run a 3 team test? Expand
Depends how much time I spend Alt+Tabbed. If I go grab a coffee and play with my cat while game is on the screen, like 15-20 minutes with starting, adding managers etc., if I browse the webs and check regularly more like 30-40.
EDIT: Also, I can't be assed to run single team tests anymore, as they offer inconclusive results most of the time. By having 3 teams I can tell if the tactic is truly improved or it's just been a lucky/unlucky season by the positions of the other 2 teams. For example, if I had tested V3 with only Arsenal and Man U, the improvement over V2 would have been almost invisible, but with the overperforming of Leeds and Norwich, V3 is clearly better.
CBP87 said: I wouldn't suggest testing 3 teams in the same league as you're potentially taking 12 points away from the end result. Watford could've been sat in 10th on 56 points and Norwich potentially could've been 5th on 74 points and Arsenal could've potentially been 2nd on 86 points. It's just my opinion but I think you are potentially underselling the tactic by testing with 3 teams in the same league Expand
Oh, yeah, that is def true, however I do this mostly because it takes sooo long to simulate a season. I might try doing 3 different leagues, 3 different teams, now that you mentioned this, as it has never occured to me how matches between them might influence the result.
Anyhow, I think V3 is a great underdog tactic, I'm on my 3rd underdog test and it looks very promising. Can't wait for the test
Second test with V3, Arsenal underperformed, but this was mostly to see how underdogs do. Norwich qualified for Europe somehow while being predicted 20th and Watford overperformed as well, finishing 13th with 19th prediction.
ZaZ said: It doesn't seem very realistic this year, considering the tactic with the best defense takes over 1.5 goals per match. Expand
Oh I def feel like there's way too much scoring. I just meant how you can't just create an unstoppable tactic anymore. I don't think anyone will beat 6.5 this year in tactic ratings, at least in this ME. My 3-5-2 is currently the best tactic defensively and it's got 1.5 goals against per match, as you say. You have to take into account though, that's in a league with extremely strong teams. If you take a top team with a great defence, you have good chances of conceding less than 1/game. I think my best testing season was 0.55 or 0.6 conceded/game with Man U using my 3-5-2.
I've found that against stronger teams you should use -Encourage and No Pressure if tied or after getting scored against -Praise after goals and if leading
Against worse teams -Encourage when tied in the first half -Demand More when tied later in the game -Fire Up/Berate they are leading/scored a goal to equalize -Praise if leading
Don't know much about the others as I don't use them, but maybe this is a little helpful
From my experience playing FM for quite a few years:
1. Forwards need "Places shots" if they have high finishing. This will improve their goals/season. 2. If you have Inside Forwards or Strikers with lower finishing, "Shoots with power" will improve their goals/season. If their finishing is good though, this might reduce the goals/season. 3. "Dictates Tempo" is great for your playmaker, be it Deep Lying Playmaker or Advanced Playmaker. One player in your midfield should have this and only one. Having more than one player with this will f*ck up the build-up. Only one! 4. "Plays One-Twos" is only effective if you have more than one player with the trait. I mostly get it on my non-defensive midfielders and attackers.
The others are really dependent on the tactic and more niche, but these are the ones I've found to work almost every time.
Attacking mentality Inverted Wingers with instructions to stay wide seem to be the best option if you want to use wide men, at least from what I noticed. They cross, overlap and underlap with the wide defenders well and score as well. Seems like best of both worlds, at least on the wings.
In attack, I haven't had much success with anything other than AF's. I did use an Attacking DLF with some success, paired with an AF.
IWB's seem to dominate again this year, but I have had some success with attacking full backs instructed to sit narrower and cut inside.
@Mark FM21 best tactics were mostly strikerless as well. This year seems a lot more balanced and realistic when it comes to how dominant a tactic can be. Either that or we haven't found the secret game-breaking formula yet.
Alright lads, so I'm a little excited for this one, V3 is out, as I have just tweaked a little more and I think I got a great tactic overall. I noticed the wingers had a lot of space once I moved them to AML and AMR that they were not using effectively, so I changed both of them to IW so they can exploit the newly found space and it worked great!
-Changed IWB's to FB's on Attacking mentality, with instructions to stay narrow and cut inside. This was done mostly to replicate Fergie's full backs better and mostly just to test stuff out and see what works. This seems to work and is according to the spirit of the tactic so it stays. -Changed Wingers to IW, with instructions to stay wider, again, to replicate Fergie's tactics better. They still cross and go wide, but much like the wide men of the past, they sometimes also cut inside and help build up, instead of just running like madmen down the line and non-stop crossing. -Tweaked some set pieces as they were all over the place from me changing formations. -Tweaked some personal instructions, nothing major.
Now, Norwich absolutely overperformed, almost finishing 9th with 20th prediction. Man U scored 4 goals per match!!! Leeds overperformed and finished on europe spots.
Tweaked the tactic quite a lot, as the initial result was way worse than expected. - Pushed Wingers forward to AMR and AML, gave up on the Inverted Winger as he wasn't offering anything a classic Winger wasn't. - Changed mentality to Attacking as it seems more stable. - Activated overlaps for more attacking runs. - Put shorter passes as an instruction, as too many aimless long balls were launched. - Changed defence width to be narrower, as too many attacks came through the middle.
Arsenal overperformed by quite a lot, Leeds overperformed by a lot as well. Norwich kinda meh but escaped relegation, a little unlucky conceding more than expected and scoring less (xGA and xG).
He used right footed players as left backs and instructed them to cut inside in possession to act as a midfielder. Lots of coaches used to instruct fullbacks to sometimes cut inside or underlap, it's just that stuff changed in the modern game so it's hard to recreate some things in FM so we have to improvise
!!! AS OF RIGHT NOW, THE UNDERDOG VERSION OF THE TACTIC IS THE BEST PERFORMING, SO PLEASE DOWNLOAD THAT UNLESS YOU PLAN ON USING WINGERS !!!
One of the most dominant teams of Sir Alex, if not the most, were the '99 treble winners. I don't like Man U all that much, but this year's focus of the ME on counters and quick play immediately led me to Fergie.
His '99 formation lined up with a classic back 4. I have adapted this a little bit to today's game by using Ball Playing Defenders(BPD) and Inverted Wing Backs(IWB). Fergie experimented a lot with the notion of IWB and his full-backs helped with the build up in midfield.
The middle 4 are lined up with 2 x Inverted Winger(IW), a Deep Lying Playmaker(DLP) and a Box To Box Midfielder(BBM). Giggs and Beckham, the width options in Fergie's formation had pretty complex roles personally suited to their style of play. The bottom line is, they both used to cut inside sometimes, sometimes play on the wing, sometimes cross early, etc. This is best represented through the role of IW. The DLP and BBM are a classic in this formation, represented perfectly by Scholes and Keane and I will not bother to expand.
Your front 2 are just, well, attackers.
2.Formation & Roles
1) Sweeper Keeper (Support) Not much to say about this role. I put him on support so he plays longer counter-attacking balls sometimes. If your guy isn't good at kicking, just put him on Defend.
2) 2 x Ball-Playing Center Back (Defend) Bread and butter of your defence. They need to be alright passers, although I would recommend having one who is an excellent passer, even if he's just average at defending, since long balls work well with this tactic. Key Attributes: Pace, Tackling, Heading, Passing, Marking
4) 2 x Full Back (Attack) Consider these guys Wide BBM's. They need pretty much everything a BBM does, just on the wing, with instructions to stay narrow and cut inside. Rounded players are key, doesn't have to be opposite footed, just be competent with his weak foot. Key Attributes: Stamina, Work Rate, Pace, Crossing, Tackling, Dribbling
5) Deep Lying Playmaker (Support) A more static midfielder than his BBM partner, he stays deeper and picks passes to his advancing teammates. This guy's job is to pass it well first, everything else second. Creative reliable playmakers are needed here. Key Attributes: Passing, Vision, Teamwork, First Touch
7) Box To Box Midfielder (Support) His main role is to be the engine of your midfield: pressing, carrying the ball forward, trying to play his teammates in, this guy has to do it all. Key Attributes: Stamina, Work Rate, Pace, Overall
8) 2 x Inverted Winger (Attack) Inverted Winger's main job is to operate in the space between the lines, cutting inside and participating in build up play. Sometimes they go wide instead and cross. Key Attributes: Pace, Dribbling, Acceleration, Technique, Passing, Crossing (only for Winger)
9) 2 x Advanced Forward (Attack) His only job is to get behind the defence and score. Pretty much a pacy poacher. Useful to have a good pass in him as well as to not miss and lose the ball, but more often than not he won't need to do anything else than to put the ball in the back of the net. He's instructed to also mark tighter and tackle his opponent more when off the ball. Key Attributes: Pace, Anticipation, Composure, First Touch, Dribbling
3.Tactical Breakdown
There's a great breakdown of the tactic done on youtube, and this guy has been the source of inspiration for multiple of my tactics, so check him out!
4.Results !!! ALL RESULTS ARE DONE WITHOUT ANY TRANSFERS + GO ON VACATION UNTIL END OF SEASON !!!
V1 RESULTS - OUTDATED
1. Manchester United - Media Pred. 4th - Treble Winners
2. Arsenal - Media Pred. 7th - 3rd + League Cup Runners-up
UNDERDOG TACTIC RESULTS
I tested this tactic with 3 teams predicted to finish last in their league. These were the results, 2 Europe qualifications and 9th place in the Prem.
As much as I want to, I cannot improve the tactic further without straying too far from its philosophy and due to game limitations, as much as I have tried. Minor improvements might be brought on by tweaking it, which I invite you to do as well if you want to, as long as you give credit if you do share it elsewhere.
Already working on a Fergie one, almost done with it
Arsenal results with V2. Won the FA cup, the xG situation seems slightly better, but we got 6 less points. Nonetheless, I think the initial run was rather lucky and maybe the AI manager prioritized winning the cup, idk. Hopefully V2 performs better in the tests, at least with top teams.
Not OP, but usually very few people use any OI with their tactics, as it can make some tactics act weird and you have to change them depending on opponent formation
Btw, conceding 5-10 goals from IFK per season might be pretty OK for your team. I mean when I play with Liverpool then the team usually concede only about 30 goals in the league at the end of a season so conceding 5-10 from indirect free kicks would pretty high if you are Liverpool but with Crystal Palace I conceded about 60 goals at the end of the season and with them conceding 5-10 goals from indirect free kicks seems OK.
Nah, it's with like 60 conceded, just seemed a little off as I was testing 3 teams and all 3 of them were at the top of conceded from IFK. Leeds, Watford and Norwich, even though they finished 5th, 6th and 13th respectively
I recommend grabbing an i5-10400F/11400F if you're on a budget, whatever's cheapest, as it's hands down the best value for money right now. A Ryzen 5 5600X would be the best mid-range option.
Now, on the topic of the matter, 3rd test finished. Watford slightly meh, but they did drop points every single match against my other teams, losing 2 times to Norwich and drawing Leeds twice as well. Leeds make Europe with 12th Media Pred. again, Norwich overperforming again and finishing 11th while predicted dead last.
EDIT: Just noticed Watford got almost same amount of points, just a really weird table this season. Not bad overall
EDIT2: This is Watford's xG and xGA. Insanely unlucky season.
I mean, yeah, I just add the prem and small database. I have an i5-10400f with 16gb RAM.
Depends how much time I spend Alt+Tabbed. If I go grab a coffee and play with my cat while game is on the screen, like 15-20 minutes with starting, adding managers etc., if I browse the webs and check regularly more like 30-40.
EDIT: Also, I can't be assed to run single team tests anymore, as they offer inconclusive results most of the time. By having 3 teams I can tell if the tactic is truly improved or it's just been a lucky/unlucky season by the positions of the other 2 teams. For example, if I had tested V3 with only Arsenal and Man U, the improvement over V2 would have been almost invisible, but with the overperforming of Leeds and Norwich, V3 is clearly better.
Oh, yeah, that is def true, however I do this mostly because it takes sooo long to simulate a season. I might try doing 3 different leagues, 3 different teams, now that you mentioned this, as it has never occured to me how matches between them might influence the result.
Anyhow, I think V3 is a great underdog tactic, I'm on my 3rd underdog test and it looks very promising. Can't wait for the test
Oh I def feel like there's way too much scoring. I just meant how you can't just create an unstoppable tactic anymore. I don't think anyone will beat 6.5 this year in tactic ratings, at least in this ME. My 3-5-2 is currently the best tactic defensively and it's got 1.5 goals against per match, as you say. You have to take into account though, that's in a league with extremely strong teams. If you take a top team with a great defence, you have good chances of conceding less than 1/game. I think my best testing season was 0.55 or 0.6 conceded/game with Man U using my 3-5-2.
-Encourage and No Pressure if tied or after getting scored against
-Praise after goals and if leading
Against worse teams
-Encourage when tied in the first half
-Demand More when tied later in the game
-Fire Up/Berate they are leading/scored a goal to equalize
-Praise if leading
Don't know much about the others as I don't use them, but maybe this is a little helpful
1. Forwards need "Places shots" if they have high finishing. This will improve their goals/season.
2. If you have Inside Forwards or Strikers with lower finishing, "Shoots with power" will improve their goals/season. If their finishing is good though, this might reduce the goals/season.
3. "Dictates Tempo" is great for your playmaker, be it Deep Lying Playmaker or Advanced Playmaker. One player in your midfield should have this and only one. Having more than one player with this will f*ck up the build-up. Only one!
4. "Plays One-Twos" is only effective if you have more than one player with the trait. I mostly get it on my non-defensive midfielders and attackers.
The others are really dependent on the tactic and more niche, but these are the ones I've found to work almost every time.
In attack, I haven't had much success with anything other than AF's. I did use an Attacking DLF with some success, paired with an AF.
IWB's seem to dominate again this year, but I have had some success with attacking full backs instructed to sit narrower and cut inside.
Just some of my observations so far this year.
-Changed IWB's to FB's on Attacking mentality, with instructions to stay narrow and cut inside. This was done mostly to replicate Fergie's full backs better and mostly just to test stuff out and see what works. This seems to work and is according to the spirit of the tactic so it stays.
-Changed Wingers to IW, with instructions to stay wider, again, to replicate Fergie's tactics better. They still cross and go wide, but much like the wide men of the past, they sometimes also cut inside and help build up, instead of just running like madmen down the line and non-stop crossing.
-Tweaked some set pieces as they were all over the place from me changing formations.
-Tweaked some personal instructions, nothing major.
Now, Norwich absolutely overperformed, almost finishing 9th with 20th prediction.
Man U scored 4 goals per match!!!
Leeds overperformed and finished on europe spots.
- Pushed Wingers forward to AMR and AML, gave up on the Inverted Winger as he wasn't offering anything a classic Winger wasn't.
- Changed mentality to Attacking as it seems more stable.
- Activated overlaps for more attacking runs.
- Put shorter passes as an instruction, as too many aimless long balls were launched.
- Changed defence width to be narrower, as too many attacks came through the middle.
Arsenal overperformed by quite a lot, Leeds overperformed by a lot as well. Norwich kinda meh but escaped relegation, a little unlucky conceding more than expected and scoring less (xGA and xG).
He used right footed players as left backs and instructed them to cut inside in possession to act as a midfielder. Lots of coaches used to instruct fullbacks to sometimes cut inside or underlap, it's just that stuff changed in the modern game so it's hard to recreate some things in FM so we have to improvise
Thanks, really appreciate it! I try to give a little soul to my tactics, even though they may not be the most min-maxed
1.Introduction
!!! AS OF RIGHT NOW, THE UNDERDOG VERSION OF THE TACTIC IS THE BEST PERFORMING, SO PLEASE DOWNLOAD THAT UNLESS YOU PLAN ON USING WINGERS !!!
One of the most dominant teams of Sir Alex, if not the most, were the '99 treble winners. I don't like Man U all that much, but this year's focus of the ME on counters and quick play immediately led me to Fergie.
His '99 formation lined up with a classic back 4. I have adapted this a little bit to today's game by using Ball Playing Defenders(BPD) and Inverted Wing Backs(IWB). Fergie experimented a lot with the notion of IWB and his full-backs helped with the build up in midfield.
The middle 4 are lined up with 2 x Inverted Winger(IW), a Deep Lying Playmaker(DLP) and a Box To Box Midfielder(BBM). Giggs and Beckham, the width options in Fergie's formation had pretty complex roles personally suited to their style of play. The bottom line is, they both used to cut inside sometimes, sometimes play on the wing, sometimes cross early, etc. This is best represented through the role of IW. The DLP and BBM are a classic in this formation, represented perfectly by Scholes and Keane and I will not bother to expand.
Your front 2 are just, well, attackers.
2.Formation & Roles
1) Sweeper Keeper (Support)
Not much to say about this role. I put him on support so he plays longer counter-attacking balls sometimes. If your guy isn't good at kicking, just put him on Defend.
2) 2 x Ball-Playing Center Back (Defend)
Bread and butter of your defence. They need to be alright passers, although I would recommend having one who is an excellent passer, even if he's just average at defending, since long balls work well with this tactic.
Key Attributes: Pace, Tackling, Heading, Passing, Marking
4) 2 x Full Back (Attack)
Consider these guys Wide BBM's. They need pretty much everything a BBM does, just on the wing, with instructions to stay narrow and cut inside. Rounded players are key, doesn't have to be opposite footed, just be competent with his weak foot.
Key Attributes: Stamina, Work Rate, Pace, Crossing, Tackling, Dribbling
5) Deep Lying Playmaker (Support)
A more static midfielder than his BBM partner, he stays deeper and picks passes to his advancing teammates. This guy's job is to pass it well first, everything else second. Creative reliable playmakers are needed here.
Key Attributes: Passing, Vision, Teamwork, First Touch
7) Box To Box Midfielder (Support)
His main role is to be the engine of your midfield: pressing, carrying the ball forward, trying to play his teammates in, this guy has to do it all.
Key Attributes: Stamina, Work Rate, Pace, Overall
8) 2 x Inverted Winger (Attack)
Inverted Winger's main job is to operate in the space between the lines, cutting inside and participating in build up play. Sometimes they go wide instead and cross.
Key Attributes: Pace, Dribbling, Acceleration, Technique, Passing, Crossing (only for Winger)
9) 2 x Advanced Forward (Attack)
His only job is to get behind the defence and score. Pretty much a pacy poacher. Useful to have a good pass in him as well as to not miss and lose the ball, but more often than not he won't need to do anything else than to put the ball in the back of the net. He's instructed to also mark tighter and tackle his opponent more when off the ball.
Key Attributes: Pace, Anticipation, Composure, First Touch, Dribbling
3.Tactical Breakdown
There's a great breakdown of the tactic done on youtube, and this guy has been the source of inspiration for multiple of my tactics, so check him out!
4.Results
!!! ALL RESULTS ARE DONE WITHOUT ANY TRANSFERS + GO ON VACATION UNTIL END OF SEASON !!!
V1 RESULTS - OUTDATED 1. Manchester United - Media Pred. 4th - Treble Winners
2. Arsenal - Media Pred. 7th - 3rd + League Cup Runners-up
UNDERDOG TACTIC RESULTS
I tested this tactic with 3 teams predicted to finish last in their league. These were the results, 2 Europe qualifications and 9th place in the Prem.
Already working on a Fergie one, almost done with it