Ochre Reindeer said: I'm trying to build my own 4222 based on top tactic in fm arena. Got any tips? Plus I'll use take more risks dribbling more move into channels and tackle harder based on your explanation Expand
While SI has established a complex and detailed tactical system in FM, merely creating tactics based on these settings is just the beginning. The tactical engine in each iteration of FM has unique characteristics, and the only way to develop truly effective 'super tactics' that exploit the engine is through relentless testing.
Even the specific player instructions you mentioned don't necessarily guarantee positive outcomes. Take the 'Get Stuck In' instruction—while it increases intensity, it often needs to be selectively disabled during normal gameplay based on match situations. As for the tactical testing ratings in the ARENA, numerous factors influence them. Beyond the well-known random variance, factors like the AI team's tactical choices, player attribute settings in test saves, etc., are impossible to fully eliminate—ARENA already performs remarkably well given these constraints.
Therefore, the common skepticism about the validity of ARENA's test rankings is largely unfounded. While using different test saves will inevitably yield vastly different results, that doesn't mean one outcome is inherently 'more accurate'. This ties back to my earlier point: minor tweaks to TIs or PIs causing rating fluctuations don't definitively prove which setup is superior.
Another crucial point: many players, including ARENA creators, conduct extensive tests on player attributes and draw conclusions. However, I must emphasize that a tiny difference can lead to huge disparities. Such tests can only represent results under very specific conditions. The dominant influencing factors are the player attribute setups of both your team and the AI teams, coupled with the tactical choices made by both sides. The player attribute settings are particularly decisive.
Firstly, player attributes have synergistic relationships. More significantly, they form collective 'templates'. A single change in a player template within a tactical system can render a previously dominant 'super tactic' ineffective overnight, drastically altering all test results. I highly recommend reading this post. Its conclusions reveal the core nature of player attribute templates in online leagues—a truth I've understood since joining online leagues back in FM19. I can definitively confirm its accuracy.
Ochre Reindeer said: Quick question a smile. Usually when using an AMa people use take more risks, hold up ball move into channels tackle harder or the same instructions but dribble more instead of hold up ball. What's the difference and when to use each? Expand
"Hold Up Ball" means receiving the ball, shielding it, observing teammates' runs, and deciding the next move – intentionally slowing down the tempo. This instruction is closely tied to a player's Strength attribute,this is also the reason why, when selecting wingers for online leagues, we prioritize the strength attribute alongside pace and acceleration.
I believe "Hold Up Ball" and "Dribble More" are largely contradictory instructions, even though roles like IF and IW can technically have both. It's similar to how a DLF can have both "Hold Position" and "Move Into Channels" – I suspect this is an oversight by SI.
In summary:
I don't recommend using "Hold Up Ball" for an AMC. Good playmakers are technical players who usually have low Strength.
It’s also pointless in this position: when the ball reaches the AMC via short passes, your strikers/wingers should already be positioned.
However, the Trequartista role suits "Hold Up Ball" well – I confirmed this in testing. Though its extremely low pressing intensity makes it generally not ideal.
Ochre Reindeer said: Why don't you just post it? I don't know the wb neither the forwards PI Expand
Sorry, because I've noticed you've been asking this question under many tactics posts, I figured you must be researching tactics. Because of that, I didn't want to mislead you. The FM24 match engine hasn't been updated for nearly two years, so it's basically been figured out. Copying the Player Instructions (PIs) from currently popular tactics is perfectly fine. Also, due to the randomness of test results, it's impossible to say definitively which specific minor tweaks (like these PIs) would be marginally better.
I wouldn't use this tactic in competitive PvP matches, as this Forward Duty combination will get absolutely battered.
While SI has established a complex and detailed tactical system in FM, merely creating tactics based on these settings is just the beginning. The tactical engine in each iteration of FM has unique characteristics, and the only way to develop truly effective 'super tactics' that exploit the engine is through relentless testing.
Even the specific player instructions you mentioned don't necessarily guarantee positive outcomes. Take the 'Get Stuck In' instruction—while it increases intensity, it often needs to be selectively disabled during normal gameplay based on match situations. As for the tactical testing ratings in the ARENA, numerous factors influence them. Beyond the well-known random variance, factors like the AI team's tactical choices, player attribute settings in test saves, etc., are impossible to fully eliminate—ARENA already performs remarkably well given these constraints.
Therefore, the common skepticism about the validity of ARENA's test rankings is largely unfounded. While using different test saves will inevitably yield vastly different results, that doesn't mean one outcome is inherently 'more accurate'. This ties back to my earlier point: minor tweaks to TIs or PIs causing rating fluctuations don't definitively prove which setup is superior.
Another crucial point: many players, including ARENA creators, conduct extensive tests on player attributes and draw conclusions. However, I must emphasize that a tiny difference can lead to huge disparities. Such tests can only represent results under very specific conditions. The dominant influencing factors are the player attribute setups of both your team and the AI teams, coupled with the tactical choices made by both sides. The player attribute settings are particularly decisive.
Firstly, player attributes have synergistic relationships. More significantly, they form collective 'templates'. A single change in a player template within a tactical system can render a previously dominant 'super tactic' ineffective overnight, drastically altering all test results. I highly recommend reading this post. Its conclusions reveal the core nature of player attribute templates in online leagues—a truth I've understood since joining online leagues back in FM19. I can definitively confirm its accuracy.
https://fm-arena.com/thread/15288-some-mechanism-detailed-tests-it-took-me-1-2-months/
"Hold Up Ball" means receiving the ball, shielding it, observing teammates' runs, and deciding the next move – intentionally slowing down the tempo. This instruction is closely tied to a player's Strength attribute,this is also the reason why, when selecting wingers for online leagues, we prioritize the strength attribute alongside pace and acceleration.
I believe "Hold Up Ball" and "Dribble More" are largely contradictory instructions, even though roles like IF and IW can technically have both. It's similar to how a DLF can have both "Hold Position" and "Move Into Channels" – I suspect this is an oversight by SI.
In summary:
I don't recommend using "Hold Up Ball" for an AMC. Good playmakers are technical players who usually have low Strength.
It’s also pointless in this position: when the ball reaches the AMC via short passes, your strikers/wingers should already be positioned.
However, the Trequartista role suits "Hold Up Ball" well – I confirmed this in testing. Though its extremely low pressing intensity makes it generally not ideal.
Simplify fullbacks' PIs.
PFA+IFS.
Sorry, because I've noticed you've been asking this question under many tactics posts, I figured you must be researching tactics. Because of that, I didn't want to mislead you. The FM24 match engine hasn't been updated for nearly two years, so it's basically been figured out. Copying the Player Instructions (PIs) from currently popular tactics is perfectly fine. Also, due to the randomness of test results, it's impossible to say definitively which specific minor tweaks (like these PIs) would be marginally better.
Popular PIs are largely identical; you can directly copy the settings from other tactics with basically no difference in effectiveness.