dzek said: I just think that some TIs can show some signs of difference from their opposites without necessarily being affected by other combinations.

@dzek, even putting aside the fact that TIs and PIs interact with each other and that make a difference then still testing TIs and PIs would be just a waste of time because it isn't possible to "break" 1 points RNG(at least in our testing), even after 100,000 matches tested we still find there's "1" point RNG but many TIs/PIs make less than "1" point difference.

For example, for 400 matches tested the RNG can be as high as about "7" points and for 800 matches tested the RNG can be as high as "5" points and if you want to bring the RNG to the minimal number then you have to test no less than 50,000 matches and even after 50,000 there's still 1 point RNG but many TIs and PIs make less than 1 point difference.
dzek said: Hi @Zippo once again,

Could you do another test with the TI "Focus Play Through The Middle"?

Hi, @dzek.

I've really had enough experience with testing "TIs/PIs", I came to a conclusion that testing "TIs/PIs" is a stupid thing to do. :D  Why that? Because at some point it became obvious that there's an interaction between "TIs/PIs", in other words, for example, "Be More Disciplined" TI might work "good" in 4-3-3 shape with many "Attacking" duties and "Attacking" mentality but it might work "poor" in 4-2-4 shape with many "Support" duties and "Balanced" mentality. So you have to test all possible combinations(shapes/TIs/PIs/) to find out what every tactical instructions do and that's is madness I'd say. :D

Also, it turned out the RNG in the testing is much higher than I thought it was. For example, even a test of 9,600 matches still has +/- 1.5 points RNG, which mean the same tactic after 9,600 matches still can produce 60 points, 61.5 points, 63 points results but many TIs/PIs do like 0.1 points difference and testing them would be just playing with the RNG.

I hope you got what I mean here.
dzek said: I apologize but I don't know him either and I don't have enough time anymore to follow this situation.

EDIT: I think the only way you can contact the author of FMRTE is through their Discord channel or through their forum. In the past I suggested an improved formula regarding the coach rating system and they implemented my suggestion into their program.

Hi, @dzek.

I already sent him DM on Discord yesterday.

Haven't received any replay yet but let's wait. :)

Probably, if no luck with Discord then I'll try to reach him on their forum.

dzek said: Did you talk to the creator of FMRTE if he can do this?

Honestly, no idea how to contact him and in general don't have much free time lately.

If you know him then I delegate you to speak on behalf of fm-arena :D
FMRTE is capable of "freezing" many things in the game

but many of them aren't really important, I mean, of course, it's great if they are "frozen" but their values can be checked with much lower frequency than the values of really important things such as the values Conditions and Morale, which must be checked and set to 100% every 2-3 seconds.
pichxyaponn said: I use this cheat table to test my own table

Hi, @pichxyaponn.

It would be great if you made a guide that shows how to "freeze" the morale and condition of all players in a specific league/club using Cheat Engine.

Thank you for your involvement.

EDIT: @pichxyaponn, ok... I've figured out how to "freeze" with Cheat Engine using the tables you posted but is there a way to "save" the freezing setup once you made it in order not to do that all over aging every time you load your testing game save?
Milakus said: But what about the official in-game editor? Have you tried it?

Unforutanlty, the SI in-game editor can't "freeze" the morale and conditions. It would be great if it could do that.

Long story short: in our tactic testing we use FMRTE ( ) to "freeze" the Morale and Conditions(and other attributes) of all the players in the testing league.

FMRTE is a great tool but it's a bit "slow", by calling it "slow" I mean that it fails to set the Morale and Conditions of all the players in the league to 100% between matches during a simulation in our tactic testing league.

When we're simulation a season there's like 2-3 seconds between matches and there's about only 200 players in our tactic testing league, I really think that 2-3 seconds should be enough to set the Morale and Conditions for all of that players.

I'm not sure and it might be that the author of FMRTE intentionally made it that "slow" in order to not overheat PC of regular players but we aren't "regular" players. :)

Anyway, if someone can offer a solution to this problem that definitely reduces the RNG in our testing league and increases the accuracy of the results.

Thank you for your time.

Germaniac said: will the results still be representative of a normal gameplay?
No, of course not... we've been working hard on our testing DB to make it less and less representative of normal gameplay because at the end our goal is finding good tactics to play FIFA and PES and not FM.

Pfff... it would be ridiculous to assume that we've been updating our DB to make it better for finding good tactics to play FM! The less our DB represents normal gameplay, the better for us! Isn't it obvious?

Germaniac said: Why can't you be more specific?
I can only take a wild guess here... it could be that we want to keep the result of our hard work on learning the FM privately for ourselves? Yes, I know it's unbelievable selfishness but unfortunately, we're that evil. Once more, it's just my wild guess.
CBP87 said: What did you change that resulted in such a drastic swing

Hi, @CBP87.

Nah, I wouldn't call it "a drastic swing". It's just about 6 - 9 points drop across the board, which translates into 8%-12% points drop in points. No way 8%-12% points drop can be considered as "a drastic swing", to define it as "a drastic drop" it should not be no less than 50% or more. :)

In general, if we take a regular season that consists of 38 matches then 6 - 9 points drop means that you get just 2 or 3 wins less than before.

So in the new DB the AI managers show a bit more resistance which translates into 9%-12% points drops for the human managers and that's all.

More importantly, in the new DB the balance between tactics has stayed 99% the same as it was before. 

CBP87 said: What did you change that resulted in such a drastic swing in the previous top tactics?

Some settings that are responsible for the way AI managers play. Sorry, I can't be more specific here.

I hope that helps.

smigler said: what changed in new database?


We've updated the testing league and made changes that increase the difficulty in the league, now tactics should be more efficient to come on top and also, the changes reduce the RNG which improves the accuracy of the results.
Hi, @CBP87.

Our dedicated algorithm determines how many matches to test a tactic and it's constantly adjusting.

CBP87 said: I've noticed over the last few days that tactics that have scored relatively high, have only been tested for a few thousand matches.

It's just the scores that were considered by the algorithm as "relatively high scores" some time ago, now aren't considered as "relatively high scores" due to the increase of the top score.

I hope that helps.

CBP87 said: Ah shit! I didn't even pick up on that @Zippo or @Droid  could you amend the name of this tactic to Katana 4231 ATT 103p v1.9 please.

Thanks @smigler and Ill upload a positive version later

Fixed. :thup:

I just want to let you know that we've fixed a small bug with notifications.

Probably you might noticed that notifications about "approval your tactic for the testing" were appearing again after they were viewed or deleted. Now, it should be fixed and such notifications should be cleared correctly.

Thanks to @dzek for point it out. :thup:

Gianaa9 said: I think he meant comparing results using "High", "Normal" or "Low" bonuses during a season

Ohh... it's that thing. Ok, I'll check whether it can be tested or not.
pixar said: I meant to say that every day the first post receives a new like notification. I think this means that these people are willing to have this test done. This is what I meant. (:

Yeah, I got that. :) I didn't get what you suggested for testing, could you clarify that a bit.
pixar said: @Zippo  please see this. A new like notification comes every day :)


Please, clarify a bit what you mean, I don't get it.
pixar said: Actually, you mentioned 9 mental + 1 technical attributes. Why did you say 7?

Thanks. I've edited the post and fixed it. It was a typo.
Hey there,

If you look at the result of the player attributes testing - then you might get a wrong impression that only a few attributes such as Pace, Acceleration, Jumping Reach, Dribbling matter and other attributes do nothing.

Other attributes also matter, obviously, not as much Pace, Acceleration, Jumping Reach, Dribbling attributes but they still matter and you don't see any meaningful increase in the score when other attributes get a boost in our player attributes testing because it's just that for many attributes +5 points boost isn't enough to see any meaningful increase in the score.

To ensure that the Mental and Technical attributes also matter let's produce the following test:

Modified Attributes Setup 1:
9 Mental and 1 Technical attributes get +2 points boost

+2 Anticipation
+2 Composure
+2 Concentration
+2 Decisions
+2 Off The Ball
+2 Positioning
+2 Teamwork
+2 Vision
+2 Work Rate
+2 Passing

Modified Attributes Setup 2:
Only 2 attributes Acceleration and Pace get +2 points boost

+2 Acceleration
+2 Pace

As you can see when you increase 9 Mental and 1 Technical attributes by +2 points then the result increases by "+5.9" points from "65.5" points to "71.4" points.

And when you increase only 2 attributes Acceleration and Pace by +2 points then the result increases by "+18.1" points from "65.5" points to "83.6" points.

Obviously, not only Pace, Acceleration, Jumping Reach, Dribbling attributes matter but other attributes matter too but as you can see from the result of the test the difference of its importance is just huge, 4 additional points allocated into Pace and Acceleration make a much bigger difference than 20 additional points allocated into 7 Mental and 1 Technical attributes.

No doubts, "Invite Crosses" is one of the most "mysterious" Team Instructions in FM.

Let's find out how "Invite Crosses" TI impacts the result.

Invite Crosses vs None

Katana 4231 104p v3.1

As you can see adding "Invited Crosses" TI increased the score by "2" points from "63.8" to "65.9" and decreased the goals conceded from "46.4" to "44.1".

It's hard to say whether adding "Invite Crosses" would have the same positive for every shape or not but highly like it should work for any shape.

But don't think that getting a few additional points in the fm-arena tactic testing after adding "Invited Crosses" TI to your tactic is assured because it's not, as you can see in this test the "Invited Crosses" TI was tested for 9,600 matches, which is almost RNG free but in the regular fm-arena tactics testing tactics are tested for less than 9,600 matches, which adds a few points RNG that can negate the positive effect from "Invited Crosses" TI but anyway, as I said highly like that any shape will see a few points positive effect from adding "Invited Crosses" TI.