Middleweight165 said: @Zippo Is this worth doing? I'm using Gerrards top scoring tactic on this site. I also use the superrest method so I find my players recover between games. Does using match plans have a significant effect on results? Expand
Well, if your team is full of mutants with insane regeneration capability which allows them to recover 100% Condition before every match or if you use any "tricks", you mentioned using the superrest method, or tools like the official in-game editor or FMRTE to bump their Conditions to 100% before every match then of course, in this case you don't need using any energy saving version of your tactic.
BUT it always makes sense to switch for something more defensive then the top tactic especially, when you have a solid lead by 2-3 more goals. Just check the table and you'll see that there're many other tactics that also, use 4-2-4 formation but have a lower number in the "goals conceded" stat than the top 4-2-4 tactic. Btw, and the defensive side of those tactics can be improved even further with some obvious tactical tweaks.
Itsyaboy420 said: @Zippo so does the position rating in fmrte not work? i really need position ratings guide for fmrte. Expand
It works but setting it up for working is a quite complicated procedure.
Using and configurating it requires a very solid understanding of the subject because there're some important steps in the configuration process which, if overlooked, might cause serious issues. Also, using it isn't quite simple, you have to adjust the ratings every time you search players for a different position or replace the file that stores the position ratings settings.
So I'd say it's a bit complicated for an average FM player, even if there's a guide.
kvasir said: Sorry if I misunderstood your point, but it seemed like you were suggesting that loading players is only possible via shortlist, which isn't the case. Expand
Yes, you're right. I somehow overlooked it. It's possible to load players directly from the memory using Genie Scout.
But I found another critical issue with Genie Scout, it doesn't have an option to search for players with Homegrown status.
For example, if you manage a club in any major European league then your team must maintain a certain amount of Homegrown players.
The problem is that for example, if you manage a club in England and you need to find players with Homegrown status for the team then you can't just search players with English nationality because there's a lot good players with English Homegrown status that don't have English nationality.
FMRTE allows you to search players with Trained in club/nation statuses and it's a great a shame that Genie Scout don't have such functionality too.
If I again overlooked it and there's an option to search players with Homegrown status in Genie Scout then please, let me know about.
twkmax said: @Zippo I was wondering what your thoughts were? Expand There are similar results for some attributes but also very different results for other attributes.
I have no clue about the methodology behind other tests but I know everything about our methodology and I have trust in it.
CBP87 said: Will you be looking to do something similar for Genie Scout?
Thanks Expand The last time we checked Genie Scout we found that the app changed the way it works.
Before Genie Scout was loading players directly from the memory, the same way as FMRTE but now it requires creating a player list in the transfer center in the game and Genie Scout can only load the players from that list.
We find the way Genie Scout loads players is a bit complicated and overall the process of setting it up and using it would be too confusing for people.
But we might back to it once more if we don't find any better alternative to use.
Jimmys said: Thanks again for the great work! This updates the table here right?
Any opinions on why Jumping Reach is not as important as before? It was the clear third best together with Dribbling and while one can still argue that Dribbling is still the third best, this is not the case any more for Jumping Reach. Does this have to do with the tactic used? (Maybe less emphasis on the set pieces?) Expand I forgot to mention that in this test we capped the max value of Jumping Reach to 17 instead of 20.
We did that because we were concerned that increasing Jumping Reach to 20 would create a very unrealistic environment, like gnomes play against giants, which might distress the result of the test by giving extra undeserved importance to the Jumping Reach attribute.
smigler said: they design a feature for something that isn't even in the game by default and you don't have it until you install a custom skin? Expand
FM Touch version officially supports Instant Result without any need for installing a custom skin. I have no idea why SI doesn't unlock Instant Result by default for the full game version.
sponsorkindest said: I thought match plan doesn’t work, is there a way we can check within the game that the actual switch in tactic happened? Expand
Yes, we've checked that and found that Match Plans actually work as intended with the Instant Result.
BUT Match Plans might not work when you Holidaying or using other way to play matches.
Match Plans were designed to work with Instant Result and they work correctly with it.
Guys, a small notice here. Recently, I posted a guide how to search players with FMRTE based on the fm-arena attribute testing. But we found that FMRTE has an issue when it come to the Position Ratings, it's only possible to set them for the striker position and the application evaluates any other positions only on the Striker position ratings.
However, despite the issue, it's still possible to use FMRTE for searching players based on the position rating but it might be very confusing for some people so we decided to remove the guide about FMRTE.
I just wanted to let you what happened to the guide and why it's gone.
1) How to create a Match Plan for using it with Instant Result.
2) How to transform your main tactic into a defensive energy saving tactic.
3) How to set up a Match Plan that during matches changes your main starting tactic to the defensive energy saving tactic if you have an advantage by +2 goals or more goals and it switches back to your main tactic if the advantage is less than 2 goals or even losing/drawing.
Jolt said: That is extremely surprising. So every combination tried merely increases cumulatively with the increase of the combined chosen attributes, with no statistical difference from the sum of the chosen attributes?
EDIT: So what does testing of a 20 Pace and 20 Acceleration look like, in terms of points, goals for and goals against, as opposed to a 20 Pace 10 Acceleration, or a 10 Pace 20 Acceleration? Expand
Hi,
"20 Acc/ 20 Pace" combo gets a higher score than "20 Acc/ 10 Pace" or "10 Acc/ 20 Pace" combos.
"20 Acc/ 10 Pace" and "10 Acc/ 20 Pace" combos get similar scores.
"20 Jumping/10 Heading" combo gets a higher score than "10 Jumping/20 Heading" combo.
nios said: About the GK Attributes, since you included some physicals in your tests such as Agility, Acceleration, Pace, are you going to test Jumping reach for them? Expand
In the game you can hover the mouse cursor over "Aerial Reach" attribute and read the description.
When it comes to aerial challenges GKs use "Aerial Reach" attribute instead of "Jumping Reach" attribute as outfield players do.
Germaniac said: I remember reading in another thread that other than decorative attributes, the ones that matter are divided into 2. I think it was capped and uncapped. Capped attributes have diminished effects beyond a certain point while uncapped attributes will give an effect for each point until 20. Are these gonna be tested too? Expand
Those were my words earlier but more testing proved that it was a wrong assumption so I take it back.
CBP87 said: @Zippo Going off what you've found so far, minus acceleration and pace, what would you say are the go to attributes? is there a certain value threshold that we should look for? e.g +15 points
Great work as always Expand
I think the most effective approach to pick players would be something like this:
According to our attribute test improving each your outfield player's Acceleration attribute by 1 point improves your team result by 5.3 points on 38 matches distance. Ok, but where did I get that 5.3 value for the Acceleration attribute? It's quite simple just look at the test result of Acceleration attribute and you find that increasing its value from 8 to 20 improves the result by 64 points then increasing the Acceleration value only by 1 point would increase the result for 5.3 points. For simplicity's sake we assume that the relationship is linear here.
Using the same approach as above we can find out, let's call them "Weights", of other attributes Pace, Anticipation and Work Rate.
So the weights for Acceleration, Pace, Anticipation and Pace would be:
Acceleration = 5.3 Pace = 5.3 Anticipation = 1.5 Work Rate = 1
Now, when we know the weights of the attributes we can calculate the "usefulness" values of "Player A" and "Player B"
"Player A" = (16 Acceleration) x 5.3, (16 Pace) x 5.3, (8 Anticipation) x 1.5 , (8 Work Rate) x 1 = 189 W "Player B" = (15 Acceleration) x 5.3, (15 Pace) x 5.3, (18 Anticipation) x 1.5 , (18 Work Rate) x 1 = 204 W
It comes out that the "Player B" is a slight better pick than "Player A" despite the fact that "Player A" is faster than "Player B"
AIK said: Is it possible to test Agility from a GK point of view? Expand
The RNG of the test is about (+/- 1.5 Point) (+/- 1.5 Goals For) (+/- 1.5 Goals Against)
Look at the result of Agility test for 10 outfield positions, it's (Points +8), (Goals For +6), (Goals Against -6) which means it's about (Points +0.8), (Goals For +0.6), (Goals Against -0.6) per 1 outfield position.
So testing Agility only for 1 position doesn't make sense because the difference won't overcome the RNG of the test.
Even that GK position is a bit different than any other outfield position but I really doubt that changing Agility attribute from 8 to 20 only for 1 position would overcome the test RNG and btw, we test each attribute about 9,000 matches and despite that there's still RNG (+/- 1.5 Point) (+/- 1.5 Goals For) (+/- 1.5 Goals Against).
AIK said: So basically, what you are saying is that with 8 Pace there is "X points", "Z goals for" and "Y goals against" - but once we are adding 20 Pace we are 64 points/45 Goals/-59 Against in a 38 match league from the 8 Pace baseline statistics? Expand
Yes, improving the Pace attribute of all your outfield players from 8 to 20 adds to the result about +64 pts if we take a standard league of 38 matches.
In real life "Inside Forwards" are flanking players that prefer to cut inside with the ball from the flanks to the central area instead of running with the ball down the flanks as "Wingers" prefer to do.
So in real life when an Inside Forward cuts inside with the ball from the flank to the central area he controls the ball with the foot opposite to the side he's playing.
Speaking other words, in real life when an Inside Forward that plays on the left flank cuts inside with the ball to the central area he controls the ball with his right foot so he must be comfortable using his right foot.
But how does it work in FM24? Whether the preferred foot rating has an impact on the performance of Inside Forwards in FM24?
We've tested that for FM24!
Inside Forward Preferred Foot
QUESTION: Does the Preferred Foot matter for Inside Forwards in FM24? ANSWER: No, it seems doesn't matter.
QUESTION: Does improving the weak foot's rating improve the result? ANSWER: Yes, it does but for a very tiny amount, so taking into consideration that the weak foot rating costs a lot of CA points for a player, it's totally not worth taking.
Glennson said: Will important matches hidden atribute be tested too? Might also impact a lot. Expand There's only one hidden attribute that directly affects a match result, it's Consistency and it's been tested already.
Bafici said: @Zippo How many matches are played in the tests? A 38-game season? Expand As usual, everything was tested for thousands matches but then the data was translated for a standard season of 38 matches, to reflect what difference you can expect during a standard season of 38 matches.
Glennson said: Can you test this with the top corner tactics from Mark in the set piece section aswell? Expand
We've tested it and found out that the set pieces you purposed gave a better result that our so I updated the 1st post and put the better set pieces as the example instead of our.
But please guys, don't offer to us here any other set pieces for testing because at the current moment we aren't doing any set pieces testing and this thread has a different purpose.
The purpose of this thread is not to test set pieces but just to draw people's attention to fact that the importance of the set pieces should not be overlook and they should not be delegated to the staff because handling it yourself can give a nice boost to the result.
In FM you can delegate control over the Set Pieces to your staff.
But delegating control over the Set Pieces to your staff might be not a good idea because we tested that and found out that even the most skilled coaches in the game which have associated attributes at "20" level do worse then you can do.
In the table bellow you can find the result of an assistant manager with all "20" attributes and the following set pieces made by Knap and CSTG KANE:
Attacking Corners - "Attacking Corner Best Hits From Knap AzureV3"
Defensive Corners - "Corner defend Best Hits FROM CSTG KANE!"
As you can see taking control over the set pieces gives a nice boost to the result, it improves the score points by 7 points comparing to when the assistant manager handle the set pieces even he's got all the attributes at "20".
Below you can find the corners set pieces that we used in the test.
*Attacking Corners* Attacking Corner Best Hits From Knap AzureV3
*Defensive Corners* Corner defend Best Hits FROM CSTG KANE!
Well, if your team is full of mutants with insane regeneration capability which allows them to recover 100% Condition before every match
BUT it always makes sense to switch for something more defensive then the top tactic especially, when you have a solid lead by 2-3 more goals. Just check the table and you'll see that there're many other tactics that also, use 4-2-4 formation but have a lower number in the "goals conceded" stat than the top 4-2-4 tactic. Btw, and the defensive side of those tactics can be improved even further with some obvious tactical tweaks.
It works but setting it up for working is a quite complicated procedure.
Using and configurating it requires a very solid understanding of the subject because there're some important steps in the configuration process which, if overlooked, might cause serious issues. Also, using it isn't quite simple, you have to adjust the ratings every time you search players for a different position or replace the file that stores the position ratings settings.
So I'd say it's a bit complicated for an average FM player, even if there's a guide.
Yes, you're right. I somehow overlooked it. It's possible to load players directly from the memory using Genie Scout.
But I found another critical issue with Genie Scout, it doesn't have an option to search for players with Homegrown status.
For example, if you manage a club in any major European league then your team must maintain a certain amount of Homegrown players.
The problem is that for example, if you manage a club in England and you need to find players with Homegrown status for the team then you can't just search players with English nationality because there's a lot good players with English Homegrown status that don't have English nationality.
FMRTE allows you to search players with Trained in club/nation statuses and it's a great a shame that Genie Scout don't have such functionality too.
If I again overlooked it and there's an option to search players with Homegrown status in Genie Scout then please, let me know about.
twkmax said: @Zippo I was wondering what your thoughts were?
There are similar results for some attributes but also very different results for other attributes.
I have no clue about the methodology behind other tests but I know everything about our methodology and I have trust in it.
Thanks
The last time we checked Genie Scout we found that the app changed the way it works.
Before Genie Scout was loading players directly from the memory, the same way as FMRTE but now it requires creating a player list in the transfer center in the game and Genie Scout can only load the players from that list.
We find the way Genie Scout loads players is a bit complicated and overall the process of setting it up and using it would be too confusing for people.
But we might back to it once more if we don't find any better alternative to use.
Jimmys said: Thanks again for the great work! This updates the table here right?
Any opinions on why Jumping Reach is not as important as before? It was the clear third best together with Dribbling and while one can still argue that Dribbling is still the third best, this is not the case any more for Jumping Reach. Does this have to do with the tactic used? (Maybe less emphasis on the set pieces?)
I forgot to mention that in this test we capped the max value of Jumping Reach to 17 instead of 20.
We did that because we were concerned that increasing Jumping Reach to 20 would create a very unrealistic environment, like gnomes play against giants, which might distress the result of the test by giving extra undeserved importance to the Jumping Reach attribute.
FM Touch version officially supports Instant Result without any need for installing a custom skin. I have no idea why SI doesn't unlock Instant Result by default for the full game version.
Yes, we've checked that and found that Match Plans actually work as intended with the Instant Result.
BUT Match Plans might not work when you Holidaying or using other way to play matches.
Match Plans were designed to work with Instant Result and they work correctly with it.
However, despite the issue, it's still possible to use FMRTE for searching players based on the position rating but it might be very confusing for some people so we decided to remove the guide about FMRTE.
I just wanted to let you what happened to the guide and why it's gone.
Cheers.
Gathering all tools in one thread turned out to be a complete mess.
So I decided it would be better to have a separate dedicated thread for each tool.
In the video below you'll find:
1) How to create a Match Plan for using it with Instant Result.
2) How to transform your main tactic into a defensive energy saving tactic.
3) How to set up a Match Plan that during matches changes your main starting tactic to the defensive energy saving tactic if you have an advantage by +2 goals or more goals and it switches back to your main tactic if the advantage is less than 2 goals or even losing/drawing.
EDIT: So what does testing of a 20 Pace and 20 Acceleration look like, in terms of points, goals for and goals against, as opposed to a 20 Pace 10 Acceleration, or a 10 Pace 20 Acceleration?
Hi,
"20 Acc/ 20 Pace" combo gets a higher score than "20 Acc/ 10 Pace" or "10 Acc/ 20 Pace" combos.
"20 Acc/ 10 Pace" and "10 Acc/ 20 Pace" combos get similar scores.
"20 Jumping/10 Heading" combo gets a higher score than "10 Jumping/20 Heading" combo.
I hope it helps.
Cheers.
In the game you can hover the mouse cursor over "Aerial Reach" attribute and read the description.
When it comes to aerial challenges GKs use "Aerial Reach" attribute instead of "Jumping Reach" attribute as outfield players do.
Those were my words earlier but more testing proved that it was a wrong assumption so I take it back.
Great work as always
I think the most effective approach to pick players would be something like this:
Let's say you're choosing between 2 players:
"Player A" 16 Acceleration, 16 Pace, 8 Anticipation, 8 Work Rate
"Player B" 15 Acceleration, 15 Pace, 18 Anticipation, 18 Work Rate
Which of them to pick?
According to our attribute test improving each your outfield player's Acceleration attribute by 1 point improves your team result by 5.3 points on 38 matches distance. Ok, but where did I get that 5.3 value for the Acceleration attribute? It's quite simple just look at the test result of Acceleration attribute and you find that increasing its value from 8 to 20 improves the result by 64 points then increasing the Acceleration value only by 1 point would increase the result for 5.3 points. For simplicity's sake we assume that the relationship is linear here.
Using the same approach as above we can find out, let's call them "Weights", of other attributes Pace, Anticipation and Work Rate.
So the weights for Acceleration, Pace, Anticipation and Pace would be:
Acceleration = 5.3
Pace = 5.3
Anticipation = 1.5
Work Rate = 1
Now, when we know the weights of the attributes we can calculate the "usefulness" values of "Player A" and "Player B"
"Player A" = (16 Acceleration) x 5.3, (16 Pace) x 5.3, (8 Anticipation) x 1.5 , (8 Work Rate) x 1 = 189 W
"Player B" = (15 Acceleration) x 5.3, (15 Pace) x 5.3, (18 Anticipation) x 1.5 , (18 Work Rate) x 1 = 204 W
It comes out that the "Player B" is a slight better pick than "Player A" despite the fact that "Player A" is faster than "Player B"
The RNG of the test is about (+/- 1.5 Point) (+/- 1.5 Goals For) (+/- 1.5 Goals Against)
Look at the result of Agility test for 10 outfield positions, it's (Points +8), (Goals For +6), (Goals Against -6) which means it's about (Points +0.8), (Goals For +0.6), (Goals Against -0.6) per 1 outfield position.
So testing Agility only for 1 position doesn't make sense because the difference won't overcome the RNG of the test.
Even that GK position is a bit different than any other outfield position but I really doubt that changing Agility attribute from 8 to 20 only for 1 position would overcome the test RNG and btw, we test each attribute about 9,000 matches and despite that there's still RNG (+/- 1.5 Point) (+/- 1.5 Goals For) (+/- 1.5 Goals Against).
Yes, improving the Pace attribute of all your outfield players from 8 to 20 adds to the result about +64 pts if we take a standard league of 38 matches.
In real life "Inside Forwards" are flanking players that prefer to cut inside with the ball from the flanks to the central area instead of running with the ball down the flanks as "Wingers" prefer to do.
So in real life when an Inside Forward cuts inside with the ball from the flank to the central area he controls the ball with the foot opposite to the side he's playing.
Speaking other words, in real life when an Inside Forward that plays on the left flank cuts inside with the ball to the central area he controls the ball with his right foot so he must be comfortable using his right foot.
But how does it work in FM24? Whether the preferred foot rating has an impact on the performance of Inside Forwards in FM24?
We've tested that for FM24!
Inside Forward Preferred Foot
QUESTION: Does the Preferred Foot matter for Inside Forwards in FM24?
ANSWER: No, it seems doesn't matter.
QUESTION: Does improving the weak foot's rating improve the result?
ANSWER: Yes, it does but for a very tiny amount, so taking into consideration that the weak foot rating costs a lot of CA points for a player, it's totally not worth taking.
There's only one hidden attribute that directly affects a match result, it's Consistency and it's been tested already.
Bafici said: @Zippo How many matches are played in the tests? A 38-game season?
As usual, everything was tested for thousands matches but then the data was translated for a standard season of 38 matches, to reflect what difference you can expect during a standard season of 38 matches.
We've tested it and found out that the set pieces you purposed gave a better result that our so I updated the 1st post and put the better set pieces as the example instead of our.
But please guys, don't offer to us here any other set pieces for testing because at the current moment we aren't doing any set pieces testing and this thread has a different purpose.
The purpose of this thread is not to test set pieces but just to draw people's attention to fact that the importance of the set pieces should not be overlook and they should not be delegated to the staff because handling it yourself can give a nice boost to the result.
Upload here the routine you were talking about and we'll test it.
In FM you can delegate control over the Set Pieces to your staff.
But delegating control over the Set Pieces to your staff might be not a good idea because we tested that and found out that even the most skilled coaches in the game which have associated attributes at "20" level do worse then you can do.
In the table bellow you can find the result of an assistant manager with all "20" attributes and the following set pieces made by Knap and CSTG KANE:
Attacking Corners - "Attacking Corner Best Hits From Knap AzureV3"
Defensive Corners - "Corner defend Best Hits FROM CSTG KANE!"
As you can see taking control over the set pieces gives a nice boost to the result, it improves the score points by 7 points comparing to when the assistant manager handle the set pieces even he's got all the attributes at "20".
Below you can find the corners set pieces that we used in the test.
*Attacking Corners*
Attacking Corner Best Hits From Knap AzureV3
*Defensive Corners*
Corner defend Best Hits FROM CSTG KANE!