Germaniac said: will the results still be representative of a normal gameplay? Expand No, of course not... we've been working hard on our testing DB to make it less and less representative of normal gameplay because at the end our goal is finding good tactics to play FIFA and PES and not FM.
Pfff... it would be ridiculous to assume that we've been updating our DB to make it better for finding good tactics to play FM! The less our DB represents normal gameplay, the better for us! Isn't it obvious?
Germaniac said: Why can't you be more specific? Expand I can only take a wild guess here... it could be that we want to keep the result of our hard work on learning the FM privately for ourselves? Yes, I know it's unbelievable selfishness but unfortunately, we're that evil. Once more, it's just my wild guess.
Nah, I wouldn't call it "a drastic swing". It's just about 6 - 9 points drop across the board, which translates into 8%-12% points drop in points. No way 8%-12% points drop can be considered as "a drastic swing", to define it as "a drastic drop" it should not be no less than 50% or more.
In general, if we take a regular season that consists of 38 matches then 6 - 9 points drop means that you get just 2 or 3 wins less than before.
So in the new DB the AI managers show a bit more resistance which translates into 9%-12% points drops for the human managers and that's all.
More importantly, in the new DB the balance between tactics has stayed 99% the same as it was before.
CBP87 said: What did you change that resulted in such a drastic swing in the previous top tactics? Expand
Some settings that are responsible for the way AI managers play. Sorry, I can't be more specific here.
We've updated the testing league and made changes that increase the difficulty in the league, now tactics should be more efficient to come on top and also, the changes reduce the RNG which improves the accuracy of the results.
Our dedicated algorithm determines how many matches to test a tactic and it's constantly adjusting.
CBP87 said: I've noticed over the last few days that tactics that have scored relatively high, have only been tested for a few thousand matches. Expand
It's just the scores that were considered by the algorithm as "relatively high scores" some time ago, now aren't considered as "relatively high scores" due to the increase of the top score.
I just want to let you know that we've fixed a small bug with notifications.
Probably you might noticed that notifications about "approval your tactic for the testing" were appearing again after they were viewed or deleted. Now, it should be fixed and such notifications should be cleared correctly.
pixar said: I meant to say that every day the first post receives a new like notification. I think this means that these people are willing to have this test done. This is what I meant. (: Expand
Yeah, I got that. I didn't get what you suggested for testing, could you clarify that a bit.
If you look at the result of the player attributes testing - https://fm-arena.com/table/26-player-attributes-testing/ then you might get a wrong impression that only a few attributes such as Pace, Acceleration, Jumping Reach, Dribbling matter and other attributes do nothing.
Other attributes also matter, obviously, not as much Pace, Acceleration, Jumping Reach, Dribbling attributes but they still matter and you don't see any meaningful increase in the score when other attributes get a boost in our player attributes testing because it's just that for many attributes +5 points boost isn't enough to see any meaningful increase in the score.
To ensure that the Mental and Technical attributes also matter let's produce the following test:
Modified Attributes Setup 1: 9 Mental and 1 Technical attributes get +2 points boost
+2 Anticipation +2 Composure +2 Concentration +2 Decisions +2 Off The Ball +2 Positioning +2 Teamwork +2 Vision +2 Work Rate +2 Passing
Modified Attributes Setup 2: Only 2 attributes Acceleration and Pace get +2 points boost
+2 Acceleration +2 Pace
As you can see when you increase 9 Mental and 1 Technical attributes by +2 points then the result increases by "+5.9" points from "65.5" points to "71.4" points.
And when you increase only 2 attributes Acceleration and Pace by +2 points then the result increases by "+18.1" points from "65.5" points to "83.6" points.
Obviously, not only Pace, Acceleration, Jumping Reach, Dribbling attributes matter but other attributes matter too but as you can see from the result of the test the difference of its importance is just huge, 4 additional points allocated into Pace and Acceleration make a much bigger difference than 20 additional points allocated into 7 Mental and 1 Technical attributes.
As you can see adding "Invited Crosses" TI increased the score by "2" points from "63.8" to "65.9" and decreased the goals conceded from "46.4" to "44.1".
It's hard to say whether adding "Invite Crosses" would have the same positive for every shape or not but highly like it should work for any shape.
But don't think that getting a few additional points in the fm-arena tactic testing after adding "Invited Crosses" TI to your tactic is assured because it's not, as you can see in this test the "Invited Crosses" TI was tested for 9,600 matches, which is almost RNG free but in the regular fm-arena tactics testing tactics are tested for less than 9,600 matches, which adds a few points RNG that can negate the positive effect from "Invited Crosses" TI but anyway, as I said highly like that any shape will see a few points positive effect from adding "Invited Crosses" TI.
CBP87 said: @Zippo@Droid I've not been able to upload any tactics for 2 days and I think I've only requested 1 tactic to be retested, any chance you can take a look and see if something is going on with my account please? Expand
That works as intended, pal.
There's a limit on how many testing requests a person can have in the queue at one moment and that limit is "2" at the moment.
In times like this, when we aren't able to satisfy testing requests as fast as we usual do, the limit preventing the queue from growing to enormous sizes.
alex said: Wasn't this tested for 2400 already? Or? Expand
Hi,
We found a small error in the settings that are responsible for "freezing" attributes with FMRTE, it isn't a big deal but it might affect the results by 1-2 points.
Thanks, we found it on an early stage of the testing.
After fixing that small error, we decided to retest the tactics with a score above 62 points under the correct DB and leave the tactics with a below 62 points as is because a difference of 1-2 points isn't critical for them.
dzek said: EDIT: I have screenshots of all AI Teams from Patch 24.2.0 (v1.0) - Tactic Testing, for 10 tests and they all seem to have WB on the left and IWB on the right. I share them here. Expand
Yes, that's correct for our FM24 DB v1.0 but FM24 DB v2.0 is different and it has the changes I mentioned above.
Btw, now we are even using on FM24 DB 3.0, which have more changes and improvements compared with FM24 DB 2.0.
dzek said: For example: If the opponent is playing with two IWBs and two Ws, then they have one person on each side. Then you will get the impression and say "then why not play FB/WB/CWB and W to have an advantage in those positions?" And I'll answer you right back. You will have superiority on the sides of the field however you will be vulnerable in the middle of the field. Then, that's where you have to consider which positions are more efficient, and as it turns out, AMRL positions don't play much of a role, besides you can see it from many others who play the game complaining about the superiority of DRL positions inside the MATCH ENGINE. Expand
Hi dzek,
Few months ago, we made tweaks to our tactic testing league and from that time there's been an equal number of AI teams that have IWB on the left side and on the right side, the same applies to Wingers and IF, also, from that point there're been AI teams without IWB at all.
So even if what you say works then it can't be applied to our testing league, because it has an equal numbers of AI teams that have IWB on the left side and on the right side.
Will you still be testing the tactics that were submitted in the last 24 hours? will these be tested after the Hall of Fame tactics?
Thanks Expand
The priority will be given to the tactics from the HOF, probably, not all of them will be retested from the start but obviously, a bunch of top tactics from the top of HOF should be retested at first then next, probably, a mix of newly uploaded tactics and retesting requests.
"The Winter Patch" just dropped and as you may already know it doesn't have any M.E. changes.
Anyway, we have updated our tactic testing league and soon we'll start retesting tactics on the updated DB.
We implemented some tweaks to the tactic testing league that greatly reduce the RNG in the league, these tweaks reduce the RNG about 2 times. Also, we made slight tweaking to the players' attributes and AI managers' tactical settings.
Soon, after our testing algorithm finishes retesting the tactics from the "Hall of Fame" under the new DB, you can manually request retesting your tactic under the new DB.
Please note, that the "retesting requests" share the same cooldown with the regular tactic sharing so per 24 hours you can only make 2 retesting request or share 2 new tactics or a combination of both.
I just want to inform you that our tactic testing server has been put under maintenance, probably, until tomorrow evening.
There's a high probability that the "Winter Patch" arrives tomorrow, but it's unknown whether it has any M.E. changes or not but anyway, we need to prepare our testing server.
You still can upload your tactics but be aware it's unlikely any of them get tested until tomorrow evening.
No, of course not... we've been working hard on our testing DB to make it less and less representative of normal gameplay because at the end our goal is finding good tactics to play FIFA and PES and not FM.
Pfff... it would be ridiculous to assume that we've been updating our DB to make it better for finding good tactics to play FM! The less our DB represents normal gameplay, the better for us! Isn't it obvious?
Germaniac said: Why can't you be more specific?
I can only take a wild guess here... it could be that we want to keep the result of our hard work on learning the FM privately for ourselves? Yes, I know it's unbelievable selfishness but unfortunately, we're that evil. Once more, it's just my wild guess.
Hi, @CBP87.
Nah, I wouldn't call it "a drastic swing". It's just about 6 - 9 points drop across the board, which translates into 8%-12% points drop in points. No way 8%-12% points drop can be considered as "a drastic swing", to define it as "a drastic drop" it should not be no less than 50% or more.
In general, if we take a regular season that consists of 38 matches then 6 - 9 points drop means that you get just 2 or 3 wins less than before.
So in the new DB the AI managers show a bit more resistance which translates into 9%-12% points drops for the human managers and that's all.
More importantly, in the new DB the balance between tactics has stayed 99% the same as it was before.
CBP87 said: What did you change that resulted in such a drastic swing in the previous top tactics?
Some settings that are responsible for the way AI managers play. Sorry, I can't be more specific here.
I hope that helps.
Cheers.
Hi,
We've updated the testing league and made changes that increase the difficulty in the league, now tactics should be more efficient to come on top and also, the changes reduce the RNG which improves the accuracy of the results.
Our dedicated algorithm determines how many matches to test a tactic and it's constantly adjusting.
CBP87 said: I've noticed over the last few days that tactics that have scored relatively high, have only been tested for a few thousand matches.
It's just the scores that were considered by the algorithm as "relatively high scores" some time ago, now aren't considered as "relatively high scores" due to the increase of the top score.
I hope that helps.
Cheers.
Thanks @smigler and Ill upload a positive version later
Fixed.
I just want to let you know that we've fixed a small bug with notifications.
Probably you might noticed that notifications about "approval your tactic for the testing" were appearing again after they were viewed or deleted. Now, it should be fixed and such notifications should be cleared correctly.
Thanks to @dzek for point it out.
Cheers.
Ohh... it's that thing. Ok, I'll check whether it can be tested or not.
Yeah, I got that.
Hi,
Please, clarify a bit what you mean, I don't get it.
Thanks. I've edited the post and fixed it. It was a typo.
If you look at the result of the player attributes testing - https://fm-arena.com/table/26-player-attributes-testing/ then you might get a wrong impression that only a few attributes such as Pace, Acceleration, Jumping Reach, Dribbling matter and other attributes do nothing.
Other attributes also matter, obviously, not as much Pace, Acceleration, Jumping Reach, Dribbling attributes but they still matter and you don't see any meaningful increase in the score when other attributes get a boost in our player attributes testing because it's just that for many attributes +5 points boost isn't enough to see any meaningful increase in the score.
To ensure that the Mental and Technical attributes also matter let's produce the following test:
Modified Attributes Setup 1:
9 Mental and 1 Technical attributes get +2 points boost
+2 Anticipation
+2 Composure
+2 Concentration
+2 Decisions
+2 Off The Ball
+2 Positioning
+2 Teamwork
+2 Vision
+2 Work Rate
+2 Passing
Modified Attributes Setup 2:
Only 2 attributes Acceleration and Pace get +2 points boost
+2 Acceleration
+2 Pace
As you can see when you increase 9 Mental and 1 Technical attributes by +2 points then the result increases by "+5.9" points from "65.5" points to "71.4" points.
And when you increase only 2 attributes Acceleration and Pace by +2 points then the result increases by "+18.1" points from "65.5" points to "83.6" points.
Obviously, not only Pace, Acceleration, Jumping Reach, Dribbling attributes matter but other attributes matter too but as you can see from the result of the test the difference of its importance is just huge, 4 additional points allocated into Pace and Acceleration make a much bigger difference than 20 additional points allocated into 7 Mental and 1 Technical attributes.
No doubts, "Invite Crosses" is one of the most "mysterious" Team Instructions in FM.
Let's find out how "Invite Crosses" TI impacts the result.
Invite Crosses vs None
Katana 4231 104p v3.1
As you can see adding "Invited Crosses" TI increased the score by "2" points from "63.8" to "65.9" and decreased the goals conceded from "46.4" to "44.1".
It's hard to say whether adding "Invite Crosses" would have the same positive for every shape or not but highly like it should work for any shape.
But don't think that getting a few additional points in the fm-arena tactic testing after adding "Invited Crosses" TI to your tactic is assured because it's not, as you can see in this test the "Invited Crosses" TI was tested for 9,600 matches, which is almost RNG free but in the regular fm-arena tactics testing tactics are tested for less than 9,600 matches, which adds a few points RNG that can negate the positive effect from "Invited Crosses" TI but anyway, as I said highly like that any shape will see a few points positive effect from adding "Invited Crosses" TI.
That works as intended, pal.
There's a limit on how many testing requests a person can have in the queue at one moment and that limit is "2" at the moment.
In times like this, when we aren't able to satisfy testing requests as fast as we usual do, the limit preventing the queue from growing to enormous sizes.
Hi,
We found a small error in the settings that are responsible for "freezing" attributes with FMRTE, it isn't a big deal but it might affect the results by 1-2 points.
Thanks, we found it on an early stage of the testing.
After fixing that small error, we decided to retest the tactics with a score above 62 points under the correct DB and leave the tactics with a below 62 points as is because a difference of 1-2 points isn't critical for them.
Yes, that's correct for our FM24 DB v1.0 but FM24 DB v2.0 is different and it has the changes I mentioned above.
Btw, now we are even using on FM24 DB 3.0, which have more changes and improvements compared with FM24 DB 2.0.
If the opponent is playing with two IWBs and two Ws, then they have one person on each side. Then you will get the impression and say "then why not play FB/WB/CWB and W to have an advantage in those positions?" And I'll answer you right back. You will have superiority on the sides of the field however you will be vulnerable in the middle of the field. Then, that's where you have to consider which positions are more efficient, and as it turns out, AMRL positions don't play much of a role, besides you can see it from many others who play the game complaining about the superiority of DRL positions inside the MATCH ENGINE.
Hi dzek,
Few months ago, we made tweaks to our tactic testing league and from that time there's been an equal number of AI teams that have IWB on the left side and on the right side, the same applies to Wingers and IF, also, from that point there're been AI teams without IWB at all.
So even if what you say works then it can't be applied to our testing league, because it has an equal numbers of AI teams that have IWB on the left side and on the right side.
Will you still be testing the tactics that were submitted in the last 24 hours? will these be tested after the Hall of Fame tactics?
Thanks
The priority will be given to the tactics from the HOF, probably, not all of them will be retested from the start but obviously, a bunch of top tactics from the top of HOF should be retested at first then next, probably, a mix of newly uploaded tactics and retesting requests.
Now, we just wait until FMRTE gets updated.
"The Winter Patch" just dropped and as you may already know it doesn't have any M.E. changes.
Anyway, we have updated our tactic testing league and soon we'll start retesting tactics on the updated DB.
We implemented some tweaks to the tactic testing league that greatly reduce the RNG in the league, these tweaks reduce the RNG about 2 times. Also, we made slight tweaking to the players' attributes and AI managers' tactical settings.
Soon, after our testing algorithm finishes retesting the tactics from the "Hall of Fame" under the new DB, you can manually request retesting your tactic under the new DB.
Please note, that the "retesting requests" share the same cooldown with the regular tactic sharing so per 24 hours you can only make 2 retesting request or share 2 new tactics or a combination of both.
Cheers.
I just want to inform you that our tactic testing server has been put under maintenance, probably, until tomorrow evening.
There's a high probability that the "Winter Patch" arrives tomorrow, but it's unknown whether it has any M.E. changes or not but anyway, we need to prepare our testing server.
You still can upload your tactics but be aware it's unlikely any of them get tested until tomorrow evening.
Cheers.
There are 3 major things that greatly affect the Team Cohesion:
1) Keeping all your players "happy", which means solving all their "Concerns/Issues" is a way that makes them "happy" after that.
2) Rotating your team. Giving all players enough playing time so they were satisfied with their "playing time".
3) Winning matches.
Also, there're some training sessions that increase "Team Cohesion" but we found they have a very small impact.