Why is Work Rate valued so high by the guys from Chinese forum (https://fm-arena.com/attachment/12952/) compared to its impact based on the FM Arena attribute testing?
I am doing a long term save with Chelsea and I want to optimise the player development pathway. Athe the moment this is my process:
1.U18 - play and train in U18
2.Top 2 U19 players - play and train in U18 (England allows 2 U19s to play in u18
3. >U18 and not top 2 - U23 until club grown and developed the appropriate attributes
Heres where things get grey: If I have a top talent who is good enough to be a backup in the first team, should he go there or go on loan? He wont get as many games in the first team as he would going on loan. Also, when should I bring him back to the 1st team backup role? When he's reached his potential? Of course, if he's good enough to be a starter, this is an easy decision
cadoni said: All these attributes, not single alone. Working with Youngsters is equal important like JPA, JPP. Determination is equal important as Motivating.
Any effect of X HoYD require time (probably 2-3 years) and results is not immediate. Expand
But just specifically in terms on the quality of the players in the intake, you think the key attributes for HoYD are: - Negotiating - WWYD - Personality - Preferred formation
From HoYD I would say that Negotiating & Working with Youngsters is two key attributes; since that role working (and negotiating) with players before they appear in the game (like U16 for example). Expand
So when choosing a HoYD i look at: - Personality - Preferred formation
I'm still on FM21 so i believe Negotiating isn't a attribute in this version. WWY tends to be high with top HoYD but Im still 50/50 whether it has any effect
So apart from the 2 things Ive listed, is there anything else I should be looking at when choosing a HoYD?
CBP87 said: Recruitment, the HOYD will look for players to fit his preferred formation. HOYD preferred formation doesnt plays a part in the quality brought through. Quality is based on other factors. Reputation isn't one of them Expand
I should have specified. I meant the "all of that plays a role" part of the post. I don't believe it does. Preferred formation and personality yes, the rest no, in my opinion
cadoni said: All of that plays a role. Like preferred formation of HoYD which has 433 DM Wide, you will often players in ST, AMLR, DM etc positions, not AMC or ML for example (will be rare). Expand
In terms of recruitment and the quality of player in the intake?
Is there any tested mechanism in the game about commercial revenue? Ive never bothered with tours and affiliates because Ive felt it doesnt have any real effect
If you fill those attributes with 20; you will get a CA 200.
It's not only JPA, JPP, Working with Youngsters (which have 4.0 in weighting), but other attributes as well. As everything in the game, attributes plays in combination. To make it more easy understandable: ST with 20 in Finishing, does not mean will score 200 goals. Other combination is essential. Same apply for staff. Expand
But we were talking specifically about recruitment. Its no doubt all these attributes are important in different tasks required by the HOYD but we are trying to pinpoint which one has an effect on the quality of your intake
CBP87 said: Them 3 attributes are classed as key attributes in game and all the sites I've been on are saying these attributes are needed for a good hoyd. As there is a consistency with these attributes appearing on all these different sites, I would say that they are key to having a good hoyd Expand
They're classed as important attirbutes in the game, but I think thats due to how they are used in the game once the youth players are in the 'building' but we are speaking specifically about the recruitment part.
If you use the HoYD to give you reports on your youth players then a higher JPA-JPP is essential but I dont, but in the recruitment stage I dont believe those two stats have any effect.
WWY attribute, i believe is a coaching stat so if you use your HOYD as a coach its important but in the recruitment process again I dont think it has any effect
but I still can't find anything solid about how reputation play's a part Expand
I dont think thats true. JPP JPA are reporting stats and WWY is a coaching stat from what I've read. i dont believe any of these effect the players coming through the door
CBP87 said: Nor do I mate, think I got my wires crossed with reputation and personality Expand
I still think its not clear whether reputation has an effect. Ive seen multiple sources claim both ways and Ive never seen official source comment either way. I ignore but I could be wrong
CBP87 said: Reputation plays a part, the better the reputation the more likely you'll get an excellent intake. Ill try and find the chat on the SI forum which confirmed it. The other things you've listed there are important too especially personality Expand
Thanks, id appreciate that because like I said Ive not seen anything conclusive but doesn't mean its not out there
CBP87 said: I'm not sure the head of youth development (hoyd) coaching attributes will impact youth intake, I know reputation and formation are important, well formation is important as its best to get a good hoyd whose preferred formation is similar to yours so that he brings in youth players for them roles (hopefully) but I've not read anything that suggests coaching attributes impacts the attributes of players in the intake.
I like your thinking though Expand
I am not sure HoYD reputation has an effect. I've heard conflicting info. Personality is the most important element.
I always struggle with formation because of the uniqueness of the tactics shared here, so i just try to tick as many positional boxes as possible
This is my intake checklist from the research I've done: Nation Rating and Game Importance defines quality/quantity in the country Highest Youth recruitment brings best talent in country Club repuation sperates same recruitment level Youth facilities and junior coaching decide CA and PA HOYD = position and personality
As we know pace and acceleration are the most important attributes in players. Is it possible to bias those stats in youth intake? Would hiring a HoYD whose coaching style is fitness (which as far as I can tell just means he has a high fitness attribute) have any effect? Is there another way?
ZaZ said: Don't trust me blindly, lots of people here have way more knowledge about the game than me.
Anyway, a guy from China made a study about the importance of attributes to Blue 3.0 DM using machine learning, and his findings are in the first post of Blue thread, under "Important Attributes". I'm not saying it's a definitive thing, but I prefer to trust some robust test like that or FM-Arena's than just following my personal feelings. Expand
Interesting. So the results of that indicate Agility is more important if I am reading it right? Do the results of that correlate with the tests done on this site regarding attributes? Im assuming this is more specific to position and then specific to position in your tactic
1.U18 - play and train in U18
2.Top 2 U19 players - play and train in U18 (England allows 2 U19s to play in u18
3. >U18 and not top 2 - U23 until club grown and developed the appropriate attributes
Heres where things get grey:
If I have a top talent who is good enough to be a backup in the first team, should he go there or go on loan? He wont get as many games in the first team as he would going on loan. Also, when should I bring him back to the 1st team backup role? When he's reached his potential? Of course, if he's good enough to be a starter, this is an easy decision
Any effect of X HoYD require time (probably 2-3 years) and results is not immediate.
But just specifically in terms on the quality of the players in the intake, you think the key attributes for HoYD are:
- Negotiating
- WWYD
- Personality
- Preferred formation
Is that correct?
- Game Importance
- FA Financial Power
- Economic Factor
- State of Development
- Youth Rating
From Club side:
- Youth Coaching
- Youth Facilities
- Youth Recruitment
- Youth Importance
From HoYD I would say that Negotiating & Working with Youngsters is two key attributes; since that role working (and negotiating) with players before they appear in the game (like U16 for example).
So when choosing a HoYD i look at:
- Personality
- Preferred formation
I'm still on FM21 so i believe Negotiating isn't a attribute in this version. WWY tends to be high with top HoYD but Im still 50/50 whether it has any effect
So apart from the 2 things Ive listed, is there anything else I should be looking at when choosing a HoYD?
I should have specified. I meant the "all of that plays a role" part of the post. I don't believe it does. Preferred formation and personality yes, the rest no, in my opinion
In terms of recruitment and the quality of player in the intake?
- Attacking
- Defending
- Fitness
- Mental
- Technical
- Tactical
- Working with Youngsters
- Determination
- Motivating
- People Management
- JPA
- JPP
- JSA
- Negotiating
- Tactical Knowledge
If you fill those attributes with 20; you will get a CA 200.
It's not only JPA, JPP, Working with Youngsters (which have 4.0 in weighting), but other attributes as well. As everything in the game, attributes plays in combination. To make it more easy understandable: ST with 20 in Finishing, does not mean will score 200 goals. Other combination is essential. Same apply for staff.
But we were talking specifically about recruitment. Its no doubt all these attributes are important in different tasks required by the HOYD but we are trying to pinpoint which one has an effect on the quality of your intake
They're classed as important attirbutes in the game, but I think thats due to how they are used in the game once the youth players are in the 'building' but we are speaking specifically about the recruitment part.
If you use the HoYD to give you reports on your youth players then a higher JPA-JPP is essential but I dont, but in the recruitment stage I dont believe those two stats have any effect.
WWY attribute, i believe is a coaching stat so if you use your HOYD as a coach its important but in the recruitment process again I dont think it has any effect
but I still can't find anything solid about how reputation play's a part
I dont think thats true. JPP JPA are reporting stats and WWY is a coaching stat from what I've read. i dont believe any of these effect the players coming through the door
Position and personality as well no?
I still think its not clear whether reputation has an effect. Ive seen multiple sources claim both ways and Ive never seen official source comment either way. I ignore but I could be wrong
found this where a couple of mods have commented
Correct me if Im wrong, but I dont see any reference to HoYD reputation
don't trust a word I say haha
Ha ok, I don't know what to believe now
Thanks, id appreciate that because like I said Ive not seen anything conclusive but doesn't mean its not out there
I like your thinking though
I am not sure HoYD reputation has an effect. I've heard conflicting info. Personality is the most important element.
I always struggle with formation because of the uniqueness of the tactics shared here, so i just try to tick as many positional boxes as possible
This is my intake checklist from the research I've done:
Nation Rating and Game Importance defines quality/quantity in the country
Highest Youth recruitment brings best talent in country
Club repuation sperates same recruitment level
Youth facilities and junior coaching decide CA and PA
HOYD = position and personality
Anyway, a guy from China made a study about the importance of attributes to Blue 3.0 DM using machine learning, and his findings are in the first post of Blue thread, under "Important Attributes". I'm not saying it's a definitive thing, but I prefer to trust some robust test like that or FM-Arena's than just following my personal feelings.
Interesting. So the results of that indicate Agility is more important if I am reading it right? Do the results of that correlate with the tests done on this site regarding attributes? Im assuming this is more specific to position and then specific to position in your tactic
How have you come to that conclusion? Im ready to trust you blindly after the tactics youve created
GK1 - Reflexes-18/Agility-13
GK2 - Reflexes-15/Agility-16
Which one are you signing?