This is Red 3.0, a mix between Red and Blue 3.0. Player roles and instructions were adjusted based on the stats of a full season using Blue 3.0. For example, it was noticed that DLP wasn't producing enough chances to have "Take More Risks", as well as goalkeeper, so they changed to roles that don't force that instruction. In the end, it got pretty similar to this tactic, so I incorporated a couple of instructions that improved performance. It performs similar to Blue 3.0 for strong teams, but delivers better results with weaker teams. Below are the tactics and results from a holiday test with Manchester City and Fulham.
Gracolas said: Quick question @ZaZ , im using your training schedules and then i apply for each player individual training for the role/position + quickness as focus, however i have like 5 or 6 players that are unhappy due to the focus im asking.
What do you do in these case? just ignore and keep the training or remove the focus for these unhappy players? Expand
I just let them whine. As long as they are improving stats and still happy because of other reasons, it doesn't matter much.
Exsodya said: I can try it mate, could you please screenshots for Xbox? Expand
Spoiler PIs GK: Take Fewer Risks DR/L: Shoot Less Often, Get Further Forward, Tackle Harder DC: Dribble Less, Tackle Harder DM: Hold Position, Tackle Harder MR/L: Take More Risks, Cross From Byline, Shoot Less Often, Get Further Forward MC: Take More Risks, Shoot Less Often, Move Into Channels, Tackle Harder SS: Tackle Harder
Set pieces are the same as Blue 3.0, with images in the first post.
My version was almost identical, but had DM with dribble less and CM with dribble more, and didn't have Force Oposition Outside, but it seems to work better with those instructions taken from Lida, from fm-base.
Exsodya said: Thank you ZaZ, when will you release your new tactic and how it’s going better than V3? Expand
It's actually a variant of Red, the "parent" of Blue, since I couldn't improve much from positive mentality. I'm using data from the end of season to optimize it, meaning dribbles per game, chances created, key passes and goals. DLP was switched to DM since it's not contributing much with chances created, to remove "take more risks". SK was also changed to defend for a similar reason, to stop giving away possession.
However, I found a tactic with similar roles in fm-base. Since it was posted 5 days after Red and Blue, it has probably inspiration on them, or maybe in Phoenix that was also released a couple of days after Red and Blue. Problem is, the player instructions of that tactic are pretty close to what I was coming up, but just copying their player instructions is giving me slightly better results for weaker teams.
I will post it down here if someone wanna test it, but I'm still making experiments myself.
P.S.: If anyone is curious about the data I talk about, it's something like this:
As you can see, the DLP is creating as "many" chances of goal as the BPD, meaning their "take more risks" is probably just giving away possession instead of doing anything useful.
Belmorn said: @ZaZ I see your training schedule, its pretty brutal on the physical department. Have you actually seen good increase in pace / endurance over the course of time with it ? Also how do you set intensity with it, normally when they are 90%+ I set to double intensity, using the training schedule of pre season got me a nice few injuries, just wondering if this is random bad luck me or should I lower the intensity to normal when above 90% ? Expand
With double intensity, there will be injuries, but most of them for around three days. Maybe a couple of injuries of two to four weeks, but if you have more than three or four players with long term injury during pre-season, then you either got unlucky or your players are prone to injury. The endurance training pays off later during the season, because increasing natural fitness and stamina helps the players perform better and suffer less injuries (better condition and match fitness). However, I would reduce to normal intensity during in-season since you want to keep your players in top shape and without injuries. Also, double intensity doesn't have effect on next match bonuses or recovery, making it less effective for that schedule.
You will usually see attributes growing after one or two months. Pace and Acceleration will increase the most if you are also doing individual training for quickness. I often increase 2 to 3 points in those attributes during each season, with training rates between 8 and 10 to most players. All other attributes also increase, but only 1 or 2 points per season.
Exsodya said: Okay than could you just post bargain eleven.
You don't put players that are not too expensive like mbappe or felix I Expand
I am going to tell a couple of names without looking at the price, checking only attributes from fminside.net. It's hard to say for sure because some leagues only allow a certain number of foreign players. I will also ignore hidden attributes that could be undesirable and players over 30 years old.
Exsodya said: Mate if it’s possible could you post your favorite 11 for your tactic. Because i like it sooo much.
It would be perfect if you can do it for high-mid-underdog teams, thank you in advance. Expand
It's hard because it depends on the club and league. For example, most top players don't want to to play in Brazil, Sweden or lower teams from England. There are also lots of budget players with stats decided at game generation. The perfect team would also cost too much to be realistic, since very few teams can afford the likes of Mbappé.
It's set as MR/L from the same side, but it's often someone else with higher attribute that takes them. These attacking corner routines are copied from Motion.
Grimlock said: If you mean hidden attributes then only "Consistency" and "Important Matches" are somehow involved into the calculation of match result. Expand
I thought Pressure, Temperament and Professionalism were useful to control the players body language. Don't they play worse when they get nervous or complacent, for example?
Gracolas said: Im talking out of my ass, because im at work and with no access to FM - later on i can check the stats and let you know the numbers.. The point is, he was still performing at same level as my world class prime Strikers and he has low physical attributes Expand
There are also other factors that contribute to goals, like hidden stats. If I recall correctly, Haaland is a model citizen, meaning his mental status are nearly perfect.
Gracolas said: Thanks @Mark this actually helps me a lot. Would it be good idea to expand to something like 20 attributes? I know this actually takes you a lot of time, but I feel like we are missing some possible important attributes in some positions. Example: In my save I have Haaland with 34 years old and he has something like 10 acc + pace and 18 Finishing, with the numbers you've shared it would make sense that he doesnt score much (lack of pace and acc), but the reality is that even though he's not a scoring machine as he used to be, he's still scoring 20+ goals in a season (which is pretty good for his age). Btw, im with Real Madrid (so yea, he's not beating league 2 teams ) Expand
To be honest, 20 goals a season in Real Madrid is not that impressive, specially for someone like Haaland, with over 15 in almost everything.
Bogeyman said: In FM-Base testing the assistant manager picks the team. Your ZaZ - Blue uses Defensive Wingers and the assistant manager picks slow wingers with high defensive skills for these roles so your tactics is tested with slow wingers with high defensive skills and Phoenix tactic is tested with regular wingers. Something like that can't happen in FM-Arena testing and that's why it's my favorite testing. Expand
That explains a lot. Anyway, I finally got some good improvements to Blue, after one hundred failed tests. It gives way better results to Fulham and slightly better to Manchester City, so I guess it will perform better overall (results here can always be different from my tests). I'm just cleaning up to release it. Anyway, this is not the topic to talk about Blue.
It really puzzles me that Phoenix and Blue didn't do very well in fm-base last patch. In your tests, it had a big variation in five tests, which makes me think they just got a bad day in the office, like your 311 worst score (which is still pretty high anyway).
Gracolas said: Hi @ZaZ , what you consider to be the best training to take max out of this tactic? Expand
Unfortunately, there's no such thing as best training. If you want to increase chance of winning during the current season, then you can go with normal intensity and train more attacking movements, defensive position and teamwork, as well as match practice and team bonding for happiness/cohesion, and recovery to prevent injuries. However, these are not the best options for attribute growth. If you want to maximize attribute gain, then you add double intensity training, getting more injuries and tired players during the season, as well as sessions with quickness and specific attributes you want to increase. I usually do the first because I play without reloading, but it's more about if you plan to develop players for several seasons or not.
In the openning post, there are two training routines that I often use. Another thing that I do is set all players to train their specific roles in the tactic and individual training for quickness (except goalkeeper, which trains shot reflexes).
P.S.: I updated training schedules for what I'm using lately.
More information, like set pieces, best player attributes or training schedules can be found on the link below.
https://fm-arena.com/thread/884-zaz-blue-3-0/page-1/
Leave a comment if you liked the tactic and make sure to share your results. Enjoy!
What do you do in these case? just ignore and keep the training or remove the focus for these unhappy players?
I just let them whine. As long as they are improving stats and still happy because of other reasons, it doesn't matter much.
Equally good for strong teams, but better for weaker teams.
Spoiler
PIs
GK: Take Fewer Risks
DR/L: Shoot Less Often, Get Further Forward, Tackle Harder
DC: Dribble Less, Tackle Harder
DM: Hold Position, Tackle Harder
MR/L: Take More Risks, Cross From Byline, Shoot Less Often, Get Further Forward
MC: Take More Risks, Shoot Less Often, Move Into Channels, Tackle Harder
SS: Tackle Harder
Set pieces are the same as Blue 3.0, with images in the first post.
My version was almost identical, but had DM with dribble less and CM with dribble more, and didn't have Force Oposition Outside, but it seems to work better with those instructions taken from Lida, from fm-base.
It's actually a variant of Red, the "parent" of Blue, since I couldn't improve much from positive mentality. I'm using data from the end of season to optimize it, meaning dribbles per game, chances created, key passes and goals. DLP was switched to DM since it's not contributing much with chances created, to remove "take more risks". SK was also changed to defend for a similar reason, to stop giving away possession.
However, I found a tactic with similar roles in fm-base. Since it was posted 5 days after Red and Blue, it has probably inspiration on them, or maybe in Phoenix that was also released a couple of days after Red and Blue. Problem is, the player instructions of that tactic are pretty close to what I was coming up, but just copying their player instructions is giving me slightly better results for weaker teams.
I will post it down here if someone wanna test it, but I'm still making experiments myself.
P.S.: If anyone is curious about the data I talk about, it's something like this:
As you can see, the DLP is creating as "many" chances of goal as the BPD, meaning their "take more risks" is probably just giving away possession instead of doing anything useful.
Quickness to everyone, reactions to goalkeeper. Let they train the role they will play.
Have you actually seen good increase in pace / endurance over the course of time with it ?
Also how do you set intensity with it, normally when they are 90%+ I set to double intensity, using the training schedule of pre season got me a nice few injuries, just wondering if this is random bad luck me or should I lower the intensity to normal when above 90% ?
With double intensity, there will be injuries, but most of them for around three days. Maybe a couple of injuries of two to four weeks, but if you have more than three or four players with long term injury during pre-season, then you either got unlucky or your players are prone to injury. The endurance training pays off later during the season, because increasing natural fitness and stamina helps the players perform better and suffer less injuries (better condition and match fitness). However, I would reduce to normal intensity during in-season since you want to keep your players in top shape and without injuries. Also, double intensity doesn't have effect on next match bonuses or recovery, making it less effective for that schedule.
You will usually see attributes growing after one or two months. Pace and Acceleration will increase the most if you are also doing individual training for quickness. I often increase 2 to 3 points in those attributes during each season, with training rates between 8 and 10 to most players. All other attributes also increase, but only 1 or 2 points per season.
You don't put players that are not too expensive like mbappe or felix
I
I am going to tell a couple of names without looking at the price, checking only attributes from fminside.net. It's hard to say for sure because some leagues only allow a certain number of foreign players. I will also ignore hidden attributes that could be undesirable and players over 30 years old.
GK: https://fminside.net/players/43252073-gianluigi-donnarumma
DR: https://fminside.net/players/28104124-trent-alexander-arnold
DCR: https://fminside.net/players/85075627-raphael-varane
DCL: https://fminside.net/players/37024025-virgil-van-dijk
DL: https://fminside.net/players/67211695-theo-hernandez
DM: https://fminside.net/players/24016925-mateo-kovacic
ML: https://fminside.net/players/91138280-leroy-sane
MC: https://fminside.net/players/18004457-kevin-de-bruyne
MR: https://fminside.net/players/28054109-raheem-sterling
AMCR: https://fminside.net/players/85139014-kylian-mbappe
AMCL: https://fminside.net/players/98028755-mohamed-salah
It would be perfect if you can do it for high-mid-underdog teams, thank you in advance.
It's hard because it depends on the club and league. For example, most top players don't want to to play in Brazil, Sweden or lower teams from England. There are also lots of budget players with stats decided at game generation. The perfect team would also cost too much to be realistic, since very few teams can afford the likes of Mbappé.
It's set as MR/L from the same side, but it's often someone else with higher attribute that takes them. These attacking corner routines are copied from Motion.
I thought Pressure, Temperament and Professionalism were useful to control the players body language. Don't they play worse when they get nervous or complacent, for example?
Try Void, his tactic is king at scoring goals!
There are also other factors that contribute to goals, like hidden stats. If I recall correctly, Haaland is a model citizen, meaning his mental status are nearly perfect.
Btw, im with Real Madrid (so yea, he's not beating league 2 teams
To be honest, 20 goals a season in Real Madrid is not that impressive, specially for someone like Haaland, with over 15 in almost everything.
FCK literaly got fcked.
That explains a lot. Anyway, I finally got some good improvements to Blue, after one hundred failed tests. It gives way better results to Fulham and slightly better to Manchester City, so I guess it will perform better overall (results here can always be different from my tests). I'm just cleaning up to release it. Anyway, this is not the topic to talk about Blue.
Hmm... I will see if I can make some changes to improve the results for weaker teams.
Unfortunately, there's no such thing as best training. If you want to increase chance of winning during the current season, then you can go with normal intensity and train more attacking movements, defensive position and teamwork, as well as match practice and team bonding for happiness/cohesion, and recovery to prevent injuries. However, these are not the best options for attribute growth. If you want to maximize attribute gain, then you add double intensity training, getting more injuries and tired players during the season, as well as sessions with quickness and specific attributes you want to increase. I usually do the first because I play without reloading, but it's more about if you plan to develop players for several seasons or not.
In the openning post, there are two training routines that I often use. Another thing that I do is set all players to train their specific roles in the tactic and individual training for quickness (except goalkeeper, which trains shot reflexes).
P.S.: I updated training schedules for what I'm using lately.
Thanks! I will see what happens if I set it to Attacking or Very Attacking, since it's already very solid in the back.