magicnut said: Test results very dissapointing. That being said I am not sure if I uploaded correct file! I may have saved a earlier tactic as v5 by mistake. I will rework the tactic now to try to make less Ass hopefully brang it to minimum 5 rating. Expand
If you allow me to comment on it, I think you should remove the team instructions to overlap left and right. Those instructions tell your winger to hold the ball and wait for a marauding wingback to run from outside and reach the byline, crossing the ball to the center. However, inverted wing backs are set to cut to the inside, meaning they usually do underlaping movements instead. They are also set to cross less and from deep, creating a conflict in those instructions. You are also focusing the game through left and right, meaning you are enforcing that conflicting behaviour, which in turn makes your team perform worse. Play much wider is also negative, the inverted wing backs cut inside to the midfield and actually favor a short passing game, increasing your numerical advantage through the center.
Another thing that I would change is the instruction to force opponent outside. Inverted wing backs are set to sit narrower, meaning they leave more space outside that can lead to crosses. You would do better removing it or forcing opponents inside instead.
Another solution for those two problems above is to simply change inverted wing backs to wingers or full backs, instructing them to stay wider and move forward to do the overlap. That way they would do the overlap properly, benefit from playing wide and from playing through the flanks.
Accolade said: @ZaZ Hands down to you and your tactic! After last patch I started to get frustrated as no other tactics was working for me... until I found your's. It all makes sense in it, and I was so close with my own tactics but still so far away. THANK YOU! And guess what, I'm not even trying lol I got back with a Newcastle save (only bought 1 player, Portuguese youngster), plugged in you tactic, and after 3 matches and 3 wins I beat Liverpool 5-3. I say that "I'm not even trying" because I play with Carroll and Wilson upfront LOL Leicester 0 - Newcastle 1 (First match with this formation in January) Newcastle 4 - Millwall 1 Newcastle 1 - Aston Villa 0 Newcastle 3 - Man City 0 Newcastle 5 - Leicester 0 (FA CUP) Liverpool 3 - Newcastle 5 Newcastle 1 - Arsenal 3 (had to rotate) Brighton 1 - Newcastle 3 Newcastle 5 - Southampton 1 (then I stopped) (sorry but I'm too lazy to get to know how to post screenshots)
However... I would love this tactic to be similar but with Strikers. I saw on other thread of yours (ZaZ 2.0), replying to other user, that he could try this formation with Strikers. I tweaked Blue 2.2 changing SS to Pressing Forward ATT - not changing anything else, but I felt I lost something. Can you help? Can you do it?
Even if you can't... KUDOS to you! Cheers! Expand
Thanks for the compliments! I'll try getting a variation of this with two strikers. It will take some time to check the best role for strikers and if MC will stay there or be moved to AMC. I'll see if I can post it in one or two days.
ta2199 said: This is with De Jong I've tried change to DM(De) - The goal concede is less but still get bad point. I got 2nd with Fullham, only 1 point behind Liverpool Expand
I might be wrong here, but can you check if a DM with higher Jumping Reach gets better scores than a DM with lower Jumping Reach? I noticed that pattern in my DMs, but need more testing to confirm this.
P.S.: Other possibilities are Strength or Aggression, so I will be experimenting to see which one does the trick.
DesoxyN said: Been following you in your tactic discussion threads for about a month now and gotta say your research is invaluable. Thank you for doing all this, keep up the good work! Expand
Thank you a lot!
Mark said: @ZaZ do you think you can do this through the season as well? Expand
Yes, you can. I tested it during two entire seasons with Manchester City and the entire team was delighted with playtime even in the lowest possible option above surplus to requirements (youngster for under 21 players, emergency backup for the rest). I didn't test with surplus to requirements, but it should probably work as well. I also tested without the exploit and the number of players asking to improve contract was barely the same.
I would recommend this exploit for anyone that don't like managing the happiness of players and just wants to focus on playing football.
P.S.: To make it faster, you can select a big group of players and change the playtime to surplus to requirements, then back to starplayer, then back to the lowest agreed playtime. You need to do it in four different groups, because they have different options: goalkeepers under 21, goalkeepers over 21, line players under 21 and goalkeepers over 21. I didn't test with players at loan.
This tactic is the predecessor of Red, using strikers instead of shadow strikers. However, Blue is better than Red. You would probably get better results getting Blue 2.2 and changing the SS to strikers. You can do the same to Phoenix or another top tactics and it will probably perform better than this one.
They probably won't. Or maybe they will. Not being tested doesn't mean it doesn't work well. Both Red and Blue took over a week to be tested (and less than one day later, someone else improved on their formula). I am still trying to get a bigger change to call it 3.0, but no luck yet.
crazyfmguy93 said: I see this on another website. I not the owner. But ca u test it? Looking for good tactic with strikers. Expand
Try getting one of the top tactics from here and moving one or two SS to striker position. It won't be as good as the original, but probably better than most other tactics with strikers.
ta2199 said: Also if you dont want DW you can try with WM role. It offer a lots of possibility with many available PIs Expand
By the way, I noticed that thing you talked earlier, of players with highest corner attribute taking corners instead of set position. I honestly don't know how to fix it, since I assumed setting a taker would kinda... set it.
Gpassosbh said: But having extra matches isn't worse than have a day off? Do you think its possible to have a one game week schedule? If yes, what you recomend for training? Expand
I play with 33 players, so each player only plays at most once a week. If you don't like to rotate players or play with a smaller squad, you can switch the match for a session of recovery (to prevent injuries), match practice (happiness and cohesion) and quickness training (important attributes).
JTC said: Mr ZaZ - I am writing to both congratulate you for the wonderful formation and to thank you for your effort in fine-tuning it. I just used your v2.2 for Man Utd against a human controlled Liverpool team (which dominated our game with Fati, Haaland and Salah scoring like fun) in season 3 and beat them 3-2 in Community Shield - my first silverware! Would have won 3-1 had I not had Skriniar sent off in 86 mins for bad tackle. Our defence is tight [despite all the "take more risks"] and the counter attack is just impossible to deal with even though we have such low possession %. [Btw I am playing against a Liverpool team using 4-1-2-1-2 wide diamond and which scores on average 120 goals per season.]
I have two questions for you.
First, do you think it is advisable to move the CM(a) to AM position and deploy him as AP(s) - in between the two SS - and move DLP(s) to CM and deploy him as either DLP or BWM? The reason is that whilst the CM(a) generally does very well (I have Kessie and B Fernandes rotating) the DLP(s) does not do so well and often has very low rating (even though I already have Camanviga). I wonder if that has to do with the DLP(s) not being required to do a lot in recycling possession because he is assisted by the two IWB in that area, and I think in FM players are largely rated by how "busy" they are in their positions. But my concern is that using AP(s) may slow down the pace because AP tends to hold up the ball and look for chances to create openings, and this goes against the directness in your formation.
Second, do you think it is possible to adapt your tactic into a possession-based one by lowering the tempo and using low block? Whilst I love the way the team plays and the directness, I always feel I am taking a risk against another direct-play team, or those weaker teams which park the bus.
Once again, many thanks for the great work. Much appreciated.
Btw, my current starting eleven are as follows: (don't know how to screencap)
Demir -- Greenwood
Lemar --- Kessie --- B Fernandes
Camanviga
Telles - Koulibaly - Skriniar - Kounde
De Gea
Kessie + Camanviga in the center is just wonderful because of their high work rate and tackling, suit the pressing style very much. B Fernandes on the right wing can fully utilize his creativity (he has good crossing too). Kounde retrained as R-IWB and I think it is a masterstroke because he has excellent heading and passing and very decent pace, whereas Wan Bissaka is more defensive and less creative. Expand
For the first question, I already tried that and it performs worse. Some people are having DM with low scores while others have DMs with the highest scores in the team. Despite the score being high or low, they are very important to make the other players perform well. It may not seem like it, but they usually have the highest number of passes in the game, meaning they are the main players to decide where the attack movements flow.
About the second question, I already tried to lower tempo and passing directness, but the results are also worse. It doesn't mean you can't do it, but it will have worse results.
For the players, I would advise you get the fastest players that you can. Pace and acceleration are the most important attributes, followed by agility and dribbling (not so important for central defenders). The rest is nice to have, but not as important. My current team has the lowest of all attributes in the league, but the highest of those four attributes, and will finish the season with almost 20 points more than the second place.
JTC said: I am in a game using Man Utd with friends and into 3rd season. Came 2nd in the first two seasons. Liverpool (playing 4-1-2-1-2 wide diamond) with Haaland, Fati, Salah and Odegaard upfront are scoring for fun. I started playing strikerless towards the end of season 2 and just managed to beat Liverpool 3-2 in community shield in season 3. Hurray. Seems that my friend still doesnt quite know how to deal with strikerless ...
Question for advice: I have 80m in my transfer pot and I would want to buy a SS (my current SS are Demir, Greenwood, Joao Pedro and Van De Beek which lack a bit of sharp edge). I have a choice of: (1) Dybala (2) Giovanni Reyna (3) Bellingham. Who should I snap up? The only slight complication is that the first two both asked for non-negotiable promises which I cannot quite fulfill (e.g. playing them as AP). Expand
With initial attributes, Dybala is better because he is faster. Hard to know how their attributes are after three seasons. Check this table to see which attributes are the most important: https://fm-arena.com/table/9-important-attributes/
In short, you want fast players, with high pace, acceleration, agility and dribbling.
That being said I am not sure if I uploaded correct file!
I may have saved a earlier tactic as v5 by mistake.
I will rework the tactic now to try to make less Ass hopefully brang it to minimum 5 rating.
If you allow me to comment on it, I think you should remove the team instructions to overlap left and right. Those instructions tell your winger to hold the ball and wait for a marauding wingback to run from outside and reach the byline, crossing the ball to the center. However, inverted wing backs are set to cut to the inside, meaning they usually do underlaping movements instead. They are also set to cross less and from deep, creating a conflict in those instructions. You are also focusing the game through left and right, meaning you are enforcing that conflicting behaviour, which in turn makes your team perform worse. Play much wider is also negative, the inverted wing backs cut inside to the midfield and actually favor a short passing game, increasing your numerical advantage through the center.
Another thing that I would change is the instruction to force opponent outside. Inverted wing backs are set to sit narrower, meaning they leave more space outside that can lead to crosses. You would do better removing it or forcing opponents inside instead.
Another solution for those two problems above is to simply change inverted wing backs to wingers or full backs, instructing them to stay wider and move forward to do the overlap. That way they would do the overlap properly, benefit from playing wide and from playing through the flanks.
No problem, I didn't mean to be rude.
As I said two posts ago, I'm working on it.
After last patch I started to get frustrated as no other tactics was working for me... until I found your's.
It all makes sense in it, and I was so close with my own tactics but still so far away.
THANK YOU!
And guess what, I'm not even trying lol I got back with a Newcastle save (only bought 1 player, Portuguese youngster), plugged in you tactic, and after 3 matches and 3 wins I beat Liverpool 5-3. I say that "I'm not even trying" because I play with Carroll and Wilson upfront LOL
Leicester 0 - Newcastle 1 (First match with this formation in January)
Newcastle 4 - Millwall 1
Newcastle 1 - Aston Villa 0
Newcastle 3 - Man City 0
Newcastle 5 - Leicester 0 (FA CUP)
Liverpool 3 - Newcastle 5
Newcastle 1 - Arsenal 3 (had to rotate)
Brighton 1 - Newcastle 3
Newcastle 5 - Southampton 1 (then I stopped)
(sorry but I'm too lazy to get to know how to post screenshots)
However... I would love this tactic to be similar but with Strikers.
I saw on other thread of yours (ZaZ 2.0), replying to other user, that he could try this formation with Strikers.
I tweaked Blue 2.2 changing SS to Pressing Forward ATT - not changing anything else, but I felt I lost something.
Can you help?
Can you do it?
Even if you can't... KUDOS to you!
Cheers!
Thanks for the compliments! I'll try getting a variation of this with two strikers. It will take some time to check the best role for strikers and if MC will stay there or be moved to AMC. I'll see if I can post it in one or two days.
I've tried change to DM(De) - The goal concede is less but still get bad point.
I got 2nd with Fullham, only 1 point behind Liverpool
I might be wrong here, but can you check if a DM with higher Jumping Reach gets better scores than a DM with lower Jumping Reach? I noticed that pattern in my DMs, but need more testing to confirm this.
P.S.: Other possibilities are Strength or Aggression, so I will be experimenting to see which one does the trick.
I believe so. I doubt they would change how attributes work from one version to another, they would rather adjust CA weighting or AI instead.
Generic. Phoenix was picked for being in the top of the list.
Ohh, didn't see you asked for 2020. I don't think this was done before.
In short, Pace and Acceleration are god, then Agility and Dribbling comes next.
Sort by age and use filters, then use the mouse to select the players.
Keep going!
Thank you a lot!
Mark said: @ZaZ do you think you can do this through the season as well?
Yes, you can. I tested it during two entire seasons with Manchester City and the entire team was delighted with playtime even in the lowest possible option above surplus to requirements (youngster for under 21 players, emergency backup for the rest). I didn't test with surplus to requirements, but it should probably work as well. I also tested without the exploit and the number of players asking to improve contract was barely the same.
I would recommend this exploit for anyone that don't like managing the happiness of players and just wants to focus on playing football.
P.S.: To make it faster, you can select a big group of players and change the playtime to surplus to requirements, then back to starplayer, then back to the lowest agreed playtime. You need to do it in four different groups, because they have different options: goalkeepers under 21, goalkeepers over 21, line players under 21 and goalkeepers over 21. I didn't test with players at loan.
They probably won't. Or maybe they will. Not being tested doesn't mean it doesn't work well. Both Red and Blue took over a week to be tested (and less than one day later, someone else improved on their formula). I am still trying to get a bigger change to call it 3.0, but no luck yet.
Try getting one of the top tactics from here and moving one or two SS to striker position. It won't be as good as the original, but probably better than most other tactics with strikers.
By the way, I noticed that thing you talked earlier, of players with highest corner attribute taking corners instead of set position. I honestly don't know how to fix it, since I assumed setting a taker would kinda... set it.
Do you think its possible to have a one game week schedule? If yes, what you recomend for training?
I play with 33 players, so each player only plays at most once a week. If you don't like to rotate players or play with a smaller squad, you can switch the match for a session of recovery (to prevent injuries), match practice (happiness and cohesion) and quickness training (important attributes).
I have two questions for you.
First, do you think it is advisable to move the CM(a) to AM position and deploy him as AP(s) - in between the two SS - and move DLP(s) to CM and deploy him as either DLP or BWM? The reason is that whilst the CM(a) generally does very well (I have Kessie and B Fernandes rotating) the DLP(s) does not do so well and often has very low rating (even though I already have Camanviga). I wonder if that has to do with the DLP(s) not being required to do a lot in recycling possession because he is assisted by the two IWB in that area, and I think in FM players are largely rated by how "busy" they are in their positions. But my concern is that using AP(s) may slow down the pace because AP tends to hold up the ball and look for chances to create openings, and this goes against the directness in your formation.
Second, do you think it is possible to adapt your tactic into a possession-based one by lowering the tempo and using low block? Whilst I love the way the team plays and the directness, I always feel I am taking a risk against another direct-play team, or those weaker teams which park the bus.
Once again, many thanks for the great work. Much appreciated.
Btw, my current starting eleven are as follows: (don't know how to screencap)
Demir -- Greenwood
Lemar --- Kessie --- B Fernandes
Camanviga
Telles - Koulibaly - Skriniar - Kounde
De Gea
Kessie + Camanviga in the center is just wonderful because of their high work rate and tackling, suit the pressing style very much. B Fernandes on the right wing can fully utilize his creativity (he has good crossing too). Kounde retrained as R-IWB and I think it is a masterstroke because he has excellent heading and passing and very decent pace, whereas Wan Bissaka is more defensive and less creative.
For the first question, I already tried that and it performs worse. Some people are having DM with low scores while others have DMs with the highest scores in the team. Despite the score being high or low, they are very important to make the other players perform well. It may not seem like it, but they usually have the highest number of passes in the game, meaning they are the main players to decide where the attack movements flow.
About the second question, I already tried to lower tempo and passing directness, but the results are also worse. It doesn't mean you can't do it, but it will have worse results.
For the players, I would advise you get the fastest players that you can. Pace and acceleration are the most important attributes, followed by agility and dribbling (not so important for central defenders). The rest is nice to have, but not as important. My current team has the lowest of all attributes in the league, but the highest of those four attributes, and will finish the season with almost 20 points more than the second place.
Question for advice: I have 80m in my transfer pot and I would want to buy a SS (my current SS are Demir, Greenwood, Joao Pedro and Van De Beek which lack a bit of sharp edge). I have a choice of: (1) Dybala (2) Giovanni Reyna (3) Bellingham. Who should I snap up? The only slight complication is that the first two both asked for non-negotiable promises which I cannot quite fulfill (e.g. playing them as AP).
With initial attributes, Dybala is better because he is faster. Hard to know how their attributes are after three seasons. Check this table to see which attributes are the most important: https://fm-arena.com/table/9-important-attributes/
In short, you want fast players, with high pace, acceleration, agility and dribbling.