Continum said: So instead of rest on the travel day you would add training sessions? I think I've read earlier in this thread that I should add rest on travel days and a full day of rest the day after in order to achieve super rest. I might be wrong. What do you recommend? Expand
When I discovered super rest, I tried all combinations to see what triggers it, what works, and what does not work. In short, it needs three rest sessions in the same day plus send the player to rest (manually, or "no pitch or gym work".
The mechanics of training work like this: if you add any training session in that day (including Travel or Recovery, players are considered "not resting", so they do not recover energy from Rest sessions, even if you had two Rest sessions during that day. Therefore, Rest is only useful if you have three sessions, else it will only be reducing training intensity to reduce injuries. There is actually some natural daily regeneration that happens independent of training, but that has nothing to do with resting.
So, what happens when you super rest is that you still get the fatigue and condition recovery from three rest sessions (which only happens if you have no other training session or Travel), even though you are resting at home (which triggers another recovery of fatigue and condition).
If you are interested, Max did this video below about our discoveries on rest.
any idea how to adapt to schedule like that? Expand
You cannot super rest with travel, so just add training sessions there. You will still rest with the "no gym or pitch" settings, it will just not recover as much.
Results will not be very different than what they got here with some tactics. I am checking stuff like injuries, and use of the "empty" training in youth teams.
Just be mindful when training players in different positions, as that will increase their attribute weighting for defining CA. In some cases, that will cause players to peak with much lower attributes.
fmanagerenjoyer said: Hello. Is left footed cb is necessary or it is only a choice? Expand
Do not bother much. The difference in performance is marginal, if not inexistent. In practice, a left footed player will have an easier time to pass the ball to the left. That will make players from the left move the ball more to wide areas of the field, while players from the right will move the ball more to the middle, since the engine tries to favor decisions with higher chance to succeed (based on a weight system). However, the difference is not big enough to make it a decisive factor, and I would easily use a winger or fullback with "wrong" foot, if it was a better player.
Add full rest after the match, and remove one Physical, Attack, and Defend. You can also keep Physical and remove a Match Practice instead, if you want to focus more on physical attributes.
BulldozerJokic said: I don't think it's that naive in situations you have no access to good PA players. I won multiple CL in a row with 90-100 CA youngsters just buy redistributing their attributes into physicals by not training (!) them at all. Expand
I would say it is fair to do that in the lowest divisions when your training facilities are bad, but the game is usually not very challenging in that level, and you can often get fast players for free to win those leagues.
Footballenjoyer said: @ZaZ The schedule you showed is H6 but with 2xPhysical instead of 1x Quickness. It's probably slightly better in term of overall attribute gains since it does train a significant attribute - balance which quickness doesn't cover.
Big 2 is Acc/Pace. A tier below - JR, Dribbling, AGI (defenders), Balance (attackers). The non tier S attributes (Acc/Pace) does significant reduce the performance of the players if they are too far below the league based on experience.
There's probably some balance to be found that's optimal once more and more people start trying this method. Since more training session per week probably lead to more injuries in theory, All we know is - you need double intensity, 2x match practice, Quickness x 1 (2x physical might be better, unsure). Then It's either 1x overall or 1xattack+defend or blank.
I will leave this https://www.playgm.cc/thread-970401-1-1.html for those who can read Chinese, Harvestgreen posted a bunch of test results on there. I think I tend to lean on just 1x Quickness per week. Expand
The idea to use double intensity to focus on the most efficient sessions is good, since match practice can only be used twice a week. However, like I said before, I think it is naive to focus only on three attributes that will represent half of the performance, and ignore the remaining half. That's why I prefer physical instead of quickness.
Footballenjoyer said: After testing it a bit and based on the testing so far by Harvestgreen22, Most efficient ones that not just maximize physical attributes but delaying decay appeared to be K5 (3 training per week), L5 (4 training per week), I6 (4 Training per week), H6 (5 Training per week).
Imo L5 seems like the best since it has slight better growth than I6, Keeping in mind more training sessions = more chance of injuries. Whether L5 is worth it over K5 would be up to your personal preference.
I would do this training schedule and combine with the glitch of "super rest" and sprinkle in some match focus. To me, it would produce the best players ability wise in accordance to Acc/Pace/JR over performance even it doesn't produce the most well rounded players. You would look at more 18/16/10 instead of 16/16/14 guys in terms of Acc/pace/dribbling. Expand
I am currently trying the schedule below. The goal is to use double intensity to allow me to focus on sessions that really matter, aiming to maximize CA growth while having good emphasis on physical attributes.
Continum said: Do you set any individual role training or additional focus only? Expand
I set to their playing positions, or opposite side if they are full backs or wingers.
Continum said: And another question, do you use this schedule for the youth team as well? Expand
It works for both youth and main teams.
Footballenjoyer said: The only issue with this schedule is there's no significant increase between 2x physical training and 7 x physical training per week shown in multiple test ran in other posts in this forum.
Looks like the only way to speed up physical attribute growth is intensity. Then it's either max CA growth schedule on half intensity or the Chinese forum method that prioritize physical while trying to delay as much decay of non physical attributes. Expand
I am working on a new schedule with two physical sessions.
Flashedmind said: If you use the physical schedule for 5 years, the player should have around +10 in pace-acc-jump and then have 40 CA left to distribute across mental/technicals, which is still a lot if you can pick the attributes to be developed. Expand
Just a small correction. If you do that and then change to normal training, it will not train only technical and mental, but it will also continue training physical. That means you would not need to wait until pace and acceleration are at 20, since they would continue growing.
Just an experiment. The idea is to make wingers work like wide midfielders, and mark the opponent wingers, allowing fullbacks to be an extra layer of defense.
harvestgreen22 said: They are exactly the same in combat effectiveness. Because only this "3 Pace" is valid. the "20" is "useless". Of course, this is an ideal assumption, and the value of "23-3=20" will also have a small effect. Expand
I think the mistake is to think the other seventeen attributes of the table are useless, and only three are important at all. If you pick the attributes isolated, then you are probably right. By the table, pace, acceleration, jumping reach, and dribbling, are by far the most important. However, each of those other attributes have some small influence, and when combined they seem to make quite a difference. Dribbling alone increases expected points by almost 10, while balance, concentration, and anticipation increases almost 5 expected points each. Then you have all other attributes that increase by 1 or 3, and it is important to remember that those tests are not definitive, and only considered 2.4k matches each.
What I mean is you are focusing on the three attributes that are possibly responsible for 50%-60% of the performance of players, and ignoring the other seventeen that might just form the remaining 40-50%. It would be awesome if you were creating players with 20 in pace, acceleration, jumping, and dribbling, to then complete training for their other attributes, but by the table you showed, most the players were barely 17 in each. That is nothing impressive, and you can easily achieve that by hiring some quick youngsters with 13 or 14 starting pace and acceleration, without the need to sacrifice dribbling and other skills.
Again, you can win all championships with players at 70% of maximum performance, since most players in the game might be using only 50%-60% (because of low speed). However, you can do even better with players at 80%-100% of performance.
Still losing away matches playing against big teams away. Im playing Arsenal with Haaland and spending over 500 Mil pounds still unable to win CL got knocked out two continuous seasons in quarter final. I really doubt if this is the best tactic on FM.
Even with high morale, team cohesion unable to win matches against big teams, have 10 shots on target still losing matches even with opponents having 2 shots against me. Also, leaking goals too much. This game has become really frustrating Expand
If you are losing with the best tactic and the best players, then your problem is probably management. I mean, you can try loading the tactic on your team and going in vacation for the whole season, and you will probably grab most trophies. With a player managing the team, performance should be higher, not lower. Try to keep morale high, fatigue low, condition in top shape, use proper team talk and shouts, avoid injuries, recover players from bad spells, and so on. Also, remember even the best tactic will have losses, sometimes five or ten matches in a row without winning, but on average it will still be doing well.
harvestgreen22 said: This is an actual game I made to test the effect, (At the bottom of the list are four players who have only been with the team for one season) They all started with about 60-70 CA , 200PA, 16 Professionalism , The initial attribute is 14 Pace, 14 Acceleration, 14 Jumping reach , and the picture now is Just finished the second season Now they can play very well in the top England Premier League. Won most the games, even though they only have 90-100CA now , as I have a higher Pace than my opponents
in the picture above I'm using this
What I originally meant in post was that you can find the mechanics of the game in the table: the game didn't get it right, and that's the responsibility of the game maker , not gamer . I'm actually disappointed with the current gaming system
( I am a new player and had just started playing 100-200 hours, more than half of which I spent testing the game mechanics )
And the four schedules I gave To get their benefits you have to suffer some drawbacks , you can do whatever you want, According to actual requirements Expand
If your goal is to create fast young players, why not add this just to youth teams instead, and bring them up to main team when they are fast enough? Then they can have a normal training schedule to boost other attributes on main team.
Other than that, it is absurd to assume you will have a bunch of 200 PA players with high professionalism, even for people that play with hidden attributes visible. If it took two years with players like that, it will take double of that in a realistic setting.
Footballenjoyer said: No I mean, the natural position of the players as they were "born" into the game. For example, since the game favor ST and AMR/L for the fastest players in the game for regens. You just grab those players and put them in the reserve with the same training schedule but only play them lets say LB, even if they become natural at LB - Would the game still count them as ST and give them ST-level growth rather than LB growth? Expand
Training players in multiple positions will increase the weight of their attributes, making them reach PA at a lower lever of performance. I don't know the details, but it probably gets the highest weight of all proficient positions, scaled by their proficiency in that position. You can easily verify that on Editor, just add 20 to another position like Winger or Striker, and CA usually goes up. That is why I only train players in the opposite side of same position, like AML - AMR and DR - DL.
animatron said: Maybe we should choose something like L5 group to get best of both worlds, thoughts? Expand
Fine for players with more playtime. However, young players benefit more from training, and are often less used in matches since they have lower attributes (the older the player, the more they benefit from match time instead of training, and vice versa).
1. You might grow those three attributes at the same speed, but you are hindered everywhere else. That means your players will be subpar for years, in the hope of achieving higher performance after several years. That is especially true for players with less minutes of play. Remember, focusing just in those attributes would only make a difference if the character reaches PA, which will never happen with that schedule.
2. Because your players will grow CA slower, that means you will profit less from transfers. Having more income increases your budget, which allows you to hire more players with high physical attributes, ready for instant impact.
Sane said: Can you explain why match tactics training, which is quite useless for attributes, appeared? Attacking and defending also trained important skills, such as dribbling and more. Expand
Max from EBFM made a table showing what each session trains, and it is clear that Match Tactics trains way more than it says in the game. It has the fourth largest growth of any session, only behind Match Practice, Defending, and Attacking, even though it was used only three times a week (instead of seven like Attacking or Defending). Also, unlike Attacking and Defending, it also trains physical attributes, and speed is everything in FM24.
qingxiyu said: have you tried double intensity? I've only conducted a limited number of experiments but it seems to me that double intensity will make individual focus much more effective. So I used it together with speed additional focus for everyone except GK, as the importance of these two attributes are much greater than their weights in CA Expand
I tested that. It increases injuries and growth, as expected, but the end result is worse since you need lighter intensity sessions for it to be viable. Injured players have no growth.
When I discovered super rest, I tried all combinations to see what triggers it, what works, and what does not work. In short, it needs three rest sessions in the same day plus send the player to rest (manually, or "no pitch or gym work".
The mechanics of training work like this: if you add any training session in that day (including Travel or Recovery, players are considered "not resting", so they do not recover energy from Rest sessions, even if you had two Rest sessions during that day. Therefore, Rest is only useful if you have three sessions, else it will only be reducing training intensity to reduce injuries. There is actually some natural daily regeneration that happens independent of training, but that has nothing to do with resting.
So, what happens when you super rest is that you still get the fatigue and condition recovery from three rest sessions (which only happens if you have no other training session or Travel), even though you are resting at home (which triggers another recovery of fatigue and condition).
If you are interested, Max did this video below about our discoveries on rest.
any idea how to adapt to schedule like that?
You cannot super rest with travel, so just add training sessions there. You will still rest with the "no gym or pitch" settings, it will just not recover as much.
Results will not be very different than what they got here with some tactics. I am checking stuff like injuries, and use of the "empty" training in youth teams.
Do not bother much. The difference in performance is marginal, if not inexistent. In practice, a left footed player will have an easier time to pass the ball to the left. That will make players from the left move the ball more to wide areas of the field, while players from the right will move the ball more to the middle, since the engine tries to favor decisions with higher chance to succeed (based on a weight system). However, the difference is not big enough to make it a decisive factor, and I would easily use a winger or fullback with "wrong" foot, if it was a better player.
Add full rest after the match, and remove one Physical, Attack, and Defend. You can also keep Physical and remove a Match Practice instead, if you want to focus more on physical attributes.
I would say it is fair to do that in the lowest divisions when your training facilities are bad, but the game is usually not very challenging in that level, and you can often get fast players for free to win those leagues.
Big 2 is Acc/Pace. A tier below - JR, Dribbling, AGI (defenders), Balance (attackers). The non tier S attributes (Acc/Pace) does significant reduce the performance of the players if they are too far below the league based on experience.
There's probably some balance to be found that's optimal once more and more people start trying this method. Since more training session per week probably lead to more injuries in theory, All we know is - you need double intensity, 2x match practice, Quickness x 1 (2x physical might be better, unsure). Then It's either 1x overall or 1xattack+defend or blank.
I will leave this https://www.playgm.cc/thread-970401-1-1.html for those who can read Chinese, Harvestgreen posted a bunch of test results on there. I think I tend to lean on just 1x Quickness per week.
The idea to use double intensity to focus on the most efficient sessions is good, since match practice can only be used twice a week. However, like I said before, I think it is naive to focus only on three attributes that will represent half of the performance, and ignore the remaining half. That's why I prefer physical instead of quickness.
Imo L5 seems like the best since it has slight better growth than I6, Keeping in mind more training sessions = more chance of injuries. Whether L5 is worth it over K5 would be up to your personal preference.
I would do this training schedule and combine with the glitch of "super rest" and sprinkle in some match focus. To me, it would produce the best players ability wise in accordance to Acc/Pace/JR over performance even it doesn't produce the most well rounded players. You would look at more 18/16/10 instead of 16/16/14 guys in terms of Acc/pace/dribbling.
I am currently trying the schedule below. The goal is to use double intensity to allow me to focus on sessions that really matter, aiming to maximize CA growth while having good emphasis on physical attributes.
I set to their playing positions, or opposite side if they are full backs or wingers.
Continum said: And another question, do you use this schedule for the youth team as well?
It works for both youth and main teams.
Footballenjoyer said: The only issue with this schedule is there's no significant increase between 2x physical training and 7 x physical training per week shown in multiple test ran in other posts in this forum.
Looks like the only way to speed up physical attribute growth is intensity. Then it's either max CA growth schedule on half intensity or the Chinese forum method that prioritize physical while trying to delay as much decay of non physical attributes.
I am working on a new schedule with two physical sessions.
Just a small correction. If you do that and then change to normal training, it will not train only technical and mental, but it will also continue training physical. That means you would not need to wait until pace and acceleration are at 20, since they would continue growing.
Of course, this is an ideal assumption, and the value of "23-3=20" will also have a small effect.
I think the mistake is to think the other seventeen attributes of the table are useless, and only three are important at all. If you pick the attributes isolated, then you are probably right. By the table, pace, acceleration, jumping reach, and dribbling, are by far the most important. However, each of those other attributes have some small influence, and when combined they seem to make quite a difference. Dribbling alone increases expected points by almost 10, while balance, concentration, and anticipation increases almost 5 expected points each. Then you have all other attributes that increase by 1 or 3, and it is important to remember that those tests are not definitive, and only considered 2.4k matches each.
What I mean is you are focusing on the three attributes that are possibly responsible for 50%-60% of the performance of players, and ignoring the other seventeen that might just form the remaining 40-50%. It would be awesome if you were creating players with 20 in pace, acceleration, jumping, and dribbling, to then complete training for their other attributes, but by the table you showed, most the players were barely 17 in each. That is nothing impressive, and you can easily achieve that by hiring some quick youngsters with 13 or 14 starting pace and acceleration, without the need to sacrifice dribbling and other skills.
Again, you can win all championships with players at 70% of maximum performance, since most players in the game might be using only 50%-60% (because of low speed). However, you can do even better with players at 80%-100% of performance.
Still losing away matches playing against big teams away. Im playing Arsenal with Haaland and spending over 500 Mil pounds still unable to win CL got knocked out two continuous seasons in quarter final. I really doubt if this is the best tactic on FM.
Even with high morale, team cohesion unable to win matches against big teams, have 10 shots on target still losing matches even with opponents having 2 shots against me. Also, leaking goals too much. This game has become really frustrating
If you are losing with the best tactic and the best players, then your problem is probably management. I mean, you can try loading the tactic on your team and going in vacation for the whole season, and you will probably grab most trophies. With a player managing the team, performance should be higher, not lower. Try to keep morale high, fatigue low, condition in top shape, use proper team talk and shouts, avoid injuries, recover players from bad spells, and so on. Also, remember even the best tactic will have losses, sometimes five or ten matches in a row without winning, but on average it will still be doing well.
This is an actual game I made to test the effect, (At the bottom of the list are four players who have only been with the team for one season)
They all started with about 60-70 CA , 200PA, 16 Professionalism ,
The initial attribute is 14 Pace, 14 Acceleration, 14 Jumping reach , and the picture now is Just finished the second season
Now they can play very well in the top England Premier League. Won most the games, even though they only have 90-100CA now , as I have a higher Pace than my opponents
in the picture above I'm using this
What I originally meant in post was that you can find the mechanics of the game in the table: the game didn't get it right, and that's the responsibility of the game maker , not gamer . I'm actually disappointed with the current gaming system
( I am a new player and had just started playing 100-200 hours, more than half of which I spent testing the game mechanics )
And the four schedules I gave To get their benefits you have to suffer some drawbacks , you can do whatever you want, According to actual requirements
If your goal is to create fast young players, why not add this just to youth teams instead, and bring them up to main team when they are fast enough? Then they can have a normal training schedule to boost other attributes on main team.
Other than that, it is absurd to assume you will have a bunch of 200 PA players with high professionalism, even for people that play with hidden attributes visible. If it took two years with players like that, it will take double of that in a realistic setting.
Footballenjoyer said: No I mean, the natural position of the players as they were "born" into the game. For example, since the game favor ST and AMR/L for the fastest players in the game for regens. You just grab those players and put them in the reserve with the same training schedule but only play them lets say LB, even if they become natural at LB - Would the game still count them as ST and give them ST-level growth rather than LB growth?
Training players in multiple positions will increase the weight of their attributes, making them reach PA at a lower lever of performance. I don't know the details, but it probably gets the highest weight of all proficient positions, scaled by their proficiency in that position. You can easily verify that on Editor, just add 20 to another position like Winger or Striker, and CA usually goes up. That is why I only train players in the opposite side of same position, like AML - AMR and DR - DL.
Fine for players with more playtime. However, young players benefit more from training, and are often less used in matches since they have lower attributes (the older the player, the more they benefit from match time instead of training, and vice versa).
1. You might grow those three attributes at the same speed, but you are hindered everywhere else. That means your players will be subpar for years, in the hope of achieving higher performance after several years. That is especially true for players with less minutes of play. Remember, focusing just in those attributes would only make a difference if the character reaches PA, which will never happen with that schedule.
2. Because your players will grow CA slower, that means you will profit less from transfers. Having more income increases your budget, which allows you to hire more players with high physical attributes, ready for instant impact.
Sorry, I do not have one this year.
Max from EBFM made a table showing what each session trains, and it is clear that Match Tactics trains way more than it says in the game. It has the fourth largest growth of any session, only behind Match Practice, Defending, and Attacking, even though it was used only three times a week (instead of seven like Attacking or Defending). Also, unlike Attacking and Defending, it also trains physical attributes, and speed is everything in FM24.
I tested that. It increases injuries and growth, as expected, but the end result is worse since you need lighter intensity sessions for it to be viable. Injured players have no growth.