Winger pressing less, midfielders pressing more. The idea is to give even more space through the flanks, and less through the middle, to see the impact of that in goals conceded.
Walter plays GK without reflexes. Nice one Walter.
I've got the GKs lining up quite nicely now, but there are some issues at the bottom end. Could be because of the sackings messing up the data, could be for other reasons.
I picked Walter Benitez to test because he had a high % score but only 15 reflexes, and he slots in between Oblak and ter Stegen, which is exactly what my draft set of new GK weightings predicted.
90% | Alisson - 6th, 3rd, 4th, 4th, 3rd = 4 position 87% | Thibaut Courtois - 3rd, 7th, 2nd, 5th, 8th = 5 position 85% | Jan Oblak - 5th, 8th, 6th, 4th, 3rd = 5.2 position 84% | Walter Benitez - 4th, 9th, 4th, 6th, 5th = 5.6 position 85% | Ugurcan Cakir GK - 7th, 9th, 2nd = 6 position 82% | Marc-Andre ter Stegen - 10th, 11th, 4th, 4th, 3rd = 6.4 position 80% | Anatolii Trubin - 15th (sacked), 6th, 4th (sacked), 5th = 7.5 position 61% | Jack Stevens - 13th (sacked), 4th, 9th (sacked), 8th (sacked), 8th (sacked) = 8.4 position 77% | Sinan Bolat - 4th, 2nd, 19th (sacked), 5th, 14th (sacked), 9th (sacked), 12th (sacked), 5th = 8.75 position 70% | Ben Winterbottom - 10th (sacked), 5th (sacked), 12th (sacked), 18th (sacked) = 11.25 position
To be honest though, reflexes seem to be making something of a comeback. As you'll see in my weightings below, I've had to set it very high to align the positions. Also surprising was that flair might possibly be an important attribute for GK. I derived this from player comparison, and was more willing to try it out because I know that technique is important for GK but not outfield. Concentration and determination also appear to be more critical than first thought. It could all just be confusion of attributes though, I'm just satisfied at the moment that I've got something that seems to line up most players well - it correctly predicted 2 goalkeepers I tested afterwards, which is promising.
Back to the reflexes matter though, what seems to be going on is this: Aerial Reach is crucial at the mid-high level. But once have the 15 aerial reach or around that, then reflexes become the pre-eminant consideration at the very high level (so 15 vs. 19 reflexes). As Benitez shows, you can still do very well without green reflexes, but the extra reflexes will push a player above and beyond to the very top if they have everything else that's required at a mid-high level. That's my reading of it. HarvestGreen's data also makes more sense in light of this hypothesis, because what that showed is that having all attributes at 20, and reducing an attribute to 1, reflexes showed a 12.8% difference.. which is what we see here is the difference between Benitez and Alisson (if we surmise the range is 4 to 11 position, then Alisson is 23% better than Benitez). Note that it remains true that green reflexes alone aren't sufficient for a GK, as evidenced by Bolat (16 ref) & ter Stegen (18 ref).
Temi said: What is/are the ideal attributes for a GK Expand
There are some threads people discussing that with better qualification than me to talk about it. Personally, I go for Reflexes, Agility and Aerial Reach.
Updated the light version of the tactic to https://fm-arena.com/thread/20403-zaz-autumn-5-45-light/. It now concedes much less goals while saving condition and avoiding cards, so it can be safely used even when leading by a single goal (Solid version is still better if the opponent is strong).
bugs said: It's very pleasing to watch how this tactic defend. It presses in a very organized way, and 2 WMF will come to middle to cover space. I found most goals conceded are like these: 1. one opponent's AM is free to receive ball because 2 DM is shifted to one side of the pitch, and our WMF is pressing the opponent's DM, and then CB presses out while the opponent's AML/R attack the space behind him (between center CB and FB). 2. the opponent's CB directly finds ST because our two DMs are covering their AMCs and there is space in front of our center CB, and then this ST can shift the ball to sides, or because our center CB is pressing out, pass to ths space behind center CB when their AMCs attack this space.
Trying to solve that, I made a change: change PCM to a center DM, and put all three DM as PDM. The front 5 players press similarly and are flexible to opponent's attacking shape, for example if they have 2 DM then our 2 side DMs can press out.
I was trying to make a high-pressing tactic like 424 or 433 like Liverpool, but it seems not working very well in this engine. But this midlevel-pressing is currently my favorite defending shape, it really stops the opponent from creating obvious chances while at the same time have exciting counterattacks, not to say its excellent in-possession performance. Expand
Thank you for the feedback! I will test it and see how it goes.
Updating light version of Autumn. This particular version focuses only on tackling style, not touching other instructions to keep performance as high as possible.
Updated the defensive tactic to https://fm-arena.com/thread/20391-zaz-autumn-5-42-solid/. Since the performance of this version and the main tactic are very similar, it is now also the recommended tactic when you want to play defensively against a stronger team.
bugs said: Thank you ZaZ! When facing stronger teams (dominating more), is this one better (for more counterattack) or 5.31 solid better (for more solid defense)? Expand
It is a bit embarrassing to see those meaningless fights. This is just a game, made for entertainment. If anyone does not like another user, then you could just skip their threads and avoid replying to what they post. Attacking other users is not nice, and makes the entire environment sour. @Zippo
GeorgeFloydOverdosed said: The weights for GK in that thread are completely wrong. For instance, Aerial Reach is 1.8 while Reflexes is 20. In fact Aerial Reach is the most important attribute while reflexes is the least important of the big three, and less important than has always been believed. I didn't comment on this in that thread, because the OP does denote 'For goalkeepers, read the top two or three only.'
HarvestGreen's GK data is also wrong. The problem both these people are having is low sample size leading to invalid results.
Here are the ideal minimum weights I derived from brute force testing:
Of those, Aerial Reach is the least flexible in terms how low you can go and get away with it.
Traits do not seem to effect performance at all for any player.
I can't remember if height itself plays any role, but jumping reach in indeed important, so not just Aerial Reach, and jumping reach is semi-determined by height I think (for starting database players it is, and I reckon they probably coded it for newgens too).
One attribute that matters for GK that I think pretty much everybody would be unaware of, and isn't shown on that image, is technique. Technique actually matters quite a lot for GK. It's useless for outfield players, but important for GK. Expand
If you want people to respect the results of your tests, you need to respect the results of other people too. Saying stuff like "it is all wrong" is not very scientific. Their results are valid for their methodology and data set, and their interpretation is based on the method of their analysis. It is not up to you to decide which of the thesis are more trustworthy.
Temi said: Sorry To Ask again but does anyone know The best ways to improve The Tactical Familiarity Bar To the Max Expand
I guess the best way is playing. I just ignore it since it does not seem to have much impact in performance.
Vipergray said: Hi ZaZ, I have a question specifically about the Match Preparation Training before a match.
In FM26, under Match Preparation Training, we have to choose a focus for both the Out of Possession Phase and the In Possession Phase. For example, for Out of Possession we can choose options such as High Press, Mid Block, Low Block, etc., while for In Possession there are options such as Build Up, Attacking Direct, Attacking Overlaps, and so on.
For the ZaZ Autumn 4.5 tactic, which options would you recommend selecting for these two phases?
More importantly, should we always use the same Match Preparation Training regardless of the opponent, or should we change these choices from match to match depending on the opponent's formation, tactical style, strengths and weaknesses? Expand
Anything I say here is a wild guess because I do not think anyone ever tested if those things have real influence in the match. Personally, I believe it affects team instructions in the sections of the same name (as you can see in tactics page), so I pick progression to enhance passes into space, and low block to force opponents to the flanks. Again, I have zero clue of how this affects performance.
Tilestu said: In your initial notes you said you just put rebalance for the youth teams is it still better or should I just do growth. Expand
The reason for putting rebalance for youth is to have them with as much pace and acceleration as possible until they reach the main team. If you goal is to just realize their potential without caring about maximizing speed, then you can train growth too.
Walter plays GK without reflexes.
Nice one Walter.
I've got the GKs lining up quite nicely now, but there are some issues at the bottom end. Could be because of the sackings messing up the data, could be for other reasons.
I picked Walter Benitez to test because he had a high % score but only 15 reflexes, and he slots in between Oblak and ter Stegen, which is exactly what my draft set of new GK weightings predicted.
90% | Alisson - 6th, 3rd, 4th, 4th, 3rd = 4 position
87% | Thibaut Courtois - 3rd, 7th, 2nd, 5th, 8th = 5 position
85% | Jan Oblak - 5th, 8th, 6th, 4th, 3rd = 5.2 position
84% | Walter Benitez - 4th, 9th, 4th, 6th, 5th = 5.6 position
85% | Ugurcan Cakir GK - 7th, 9th, 2nd = 6 position
82% | Marc-Andre ter Stegen - 10th, 11th, 4th, 4th, 3rd = 6.4 position
80% | Anatolii Trubin - 15th (sacked), 6th, 4th (sacked), 5th = 7.5 position
61% | Jack Stevens - 13th (sacked), 4th, 9th (sacked), 8th (sacked), 8th (sacked) = 8.4 position
77% | Sinan Bolat - 4th, 2nd, 19th (sacked), 5th, 14th (sacked), 9th (sacked), 12th (sacked), 5th = 8.75 position
70% | Ben Winterbottom - 10th (sacked), 5th (sacked), 12th (sacked), 18th (sacked) = 11.25 position
To be honest though, reflexes seem to be making something of a comeback. As you'll see in my weightings below, I've had to set it very high to align the positions. Also surprising was that flair might possibly be an important attribute for GK. I derived this from player comparison, and was more willing to try it out because I know that technique is important for GK but not outfield. Concentration and determination also appear to be more critical than first thought. It could all just be confusion of attributes though, I'm just satisfied at the moment that I've got something that seems to line up most players well - it correctly predicted 2 goalkeepers I tested afterwards, which is promising.
Back to the reflexes matter though, what seems to be going on is this: Aerial Reach is crucial at the mid-high level. But once have the 15 aerial reach or around that, then reflexes become the pre-eminant consideration at the very high level (so 15 vs. 19 reflexes). As Benitez shows, you can still do very well without green reflexes, but the extra reflexes will push a player above and beyond to the very top if they have everything else that's required at a mid-high level. That's my reading of it. HarvestGreen's data also makes more sense in light of this hypothesis, because what that showed is that having all attributes at 20, and reducing an attribute to 1, reflexes showed a 12.8% difference.. which is what we see here is the difference between Benitez and Alisson (if we surmise the range is 4 to 11 position, then Alisson is 23% better than Benitez). Note that it remains true that green reflexes alone aren't sufficient for a GK, as evidenced by Bolat (16 ref) & ter Stegen (18 ref).
So here are the GK weightings for FMST26:
((aerial_reach * 100 + command_of_area * 48 + first_touch * 52 + passing * 32 + reflexes * 306 + concentration * 152 + determination * 172 + work_rate * 100 + acceleration * 46 + balance * 32 + agility * 100 + jumping_reach * 56 + natural_fitness * 32 + pace * 56 + stamina * 100 + strength * 32 + technique * 48 + pressure * 46 + professionalism * 30 + flair * 150 - injury_proneness * 150 - dirtiness * 50 - ca * 30)) / 214
You can block sacking with the in game editor.
There are some threads people discussing that with better qualification than me to talk about it. Personally, I go for Reflexes, Agility and Aerial Reach.
1. one opponent's AM is free to receive ball because 2 DM is shifted to one side of the pitch, and our WMF is pressing the opponent's DM, and then CB presses out while the opponent's AML/R attack the space behind him (between center CB and FB).
2. the opponent's CB directly finds ST because our two DMs are covering their AMCs and there is space in front of our center CB, and then this ST can shift the ball to sides, or because our center CB is pressing out, pass to ths space behind center CB when their AMCs attack this space.
Trying to solve that, I made a change: change PCM to a center DM, and put all three DM as PDM. The front 5 players press similarly and are flexible to opponent's attacking shape, for example if they have 2 DM then our 2 side DMs can press out.
I was trying to make a high-pressing tactic like 424 or 433 like Liverpool, but it seems not working very well in this engine. But this midlevel-pressing is currently my favorite defending shape, it really stops the opponent from creating obvious chances while at the same time have exciting counterattacks, not to say its excellent in-possession performance.
Thank you for the feedback! I will test it and see how it goes.
This is my new recommendation against stronger teams if you want to play defensively: https://fm-arena.com/thread/20391-zaz-autumn-5-42-solid/
@Zippo
HarvestGreen's GK data is also wrong. The problem both these people are having is low sample size leading to invalid results.
Here are the ideal minimum weights I derived from brute force testing:
Of those, Aerial Reach is the least flexible in terms how low you can go and get away with it.
Traits do not seem to effect performance at all for any player.
I can't remember if height itself plays any role, but jumping reach in indeed important, so not just Aerial Reach, and jumping reach is semi-determined by height I think (for starting database players it is, and I reckon they probably coded it for newgens too).
One attribute that matters for GK that I think pretty much everybody would be unaware of, and isn't shown on that image, is technique. Technique actually matters quite a lot for GK. It's useless for outfield players, but important for GK.
If you want people to respect the results of your tests, you need to respect the results of other people too. Saying stuff like "it is all wrong" is not very scientific. Their results are valid for their methodology and data set, and their interpretation is based on the method of their analysis. It is not up to you to decide which of the thesis are more trustworthy.
I guess the best way is playing. I just ignore it since it does not seem to have much impact in performance.
Vipergray said: Hi ZaZ, I have a question specifically about the Match Preparation Training before a match.
In FM26, under Match Preparation Training, we have to choose a focus for both the Out of Possession Phase and the In Possession Phase. For example, for Out of Possession we can choose options such as High Press, Mid Block, Low Block, etc., while for In Possession there are options such as Build Up, Attacking Direct, Attacking Overlaps, and so on.
For the ZaZ Autumn 4.5 tactic, which options would you recommend selecting for these two phases?
More importantly, should we always use the same Match Preparation Training regardless of the opponent, or should we change these choices from match to match depending on the opponent's formation, tactical style, strengths and weaknesses?
Anything I say here is a wild guess because I do not think anyone ever tested if those things have real influence in the match. Personally, I believe it affects team instructions in the sections of the same name (as you can see in tactics page), so I pick progression to enhance passes into space, and low block to force opponents to the flanks. Again, I have zero clue of how this affects performance.
The reason for putting rebalance for youth is to have them with as much pace and acceleration as possible until they reach the main team. If you goal is to just realize their potential without caring about maximizing speed, then you can train growth too.