GabBau said: Hello. I apologize in advance for my English.
I noticed that the “passing” attribute does not affect anything in terms of results in the game. Could you test this attribute in the possession tactics? Where the team has the ball more than 60 percent of the time and makes more than 650 passes. I would like to know whether it makes sense to pay attention to this attribute at all now.
Thank you Expand
You have to keep in mind that it is not that it doesn't affect, but sometimes those attributes just have a side effect that counters their benefits. A clear example of that is work rate, which causes players to attempt more pressures per match, and that causes then to drain condition faster. The attribute does give some benefit to performance, but the loss of condition causes the player to lose performance as the match progresses.
In case of high passing, this means players will attempt less dribbles and runs, and give chance to more interceptions, which are very effective in the current match engine. On the other hand, it is even worse if you have bad passing, because then you will just be giving away possession all time.
In short, attributes affect the behavior of players, and that can cause them to lose performance as a side effect.
Any tactic from the hall of fame will allow you to overachieve, so it is a matter of what type of tactics you like the most. In my opinion, this one from @sponsorkindest is the best for squad management.
mimmuscatania said: I was hoping for it too but I think he won't be there for 23 I too had gotten used to his tactics in fact I went back to fm 22 Expand
Last year was a bit rough, with wife getting surgery, and other issues going on. Anyway, FM-Arena is testing more often, so there are a lot more good tactics going on.
NandaldiaN said: @ZaZ im using your "rest" recomendation and your training routine, its supposed to be used since pre-season right? im getting some long duration injuries (can be rng), fatigue metrics seems fine. Any advice? Expand
It is probably RNG. Usually, with that setup, I get less injuries than expected, and less than the league average. However, if your players are rotten (high injury proneness), then they might get injured even while drinking water.
Gracolas said: I know im going to get a lot of hate here, but: gaming community is so toxic at the moment.. if companies put the effort to release updates every now and then, they get hated because it takes too long, if they dont release any update they also get hate because they dont care about the community, if they go on a weekly update system, they also get hate because they launched a unfinished product..
You guys are never happy Expand
I mean, aren't they doing the same they have been doing since forever? There is always one update every ~30-40 days, until the final version at 23.4, around February or March.
Floppyaams said: Amazing find. Now the problem is, how do we maintain our players' fatigue around that level. Especially in busy leagues such as the EPL. Expand
Floppyaams said: his point was that low fatigue is superior to fresh fatigue. So in theory, its better to have players conditioned rather than being completely fresh. Expand
It actually follows this kind of curve below. The peak, zero, is the exact point where it changes from "Fresh" to "Low", so the ideal is to stay in that point of balance.
For reference, Fresh goes from -500 to 0, while Low goes from 1 to 399. I didn't test the number 600, which is when it starts to show "Rst" icon ( "Fatigued" ), but I assume it reaches minimum performance around that value.
Anyway, I am still collecting more data to consolidate those results, as well as checking the changes in numbers caused by playing and training.
Lapidus said: I just want to stress once more that the "Match Expertise" level not only depends on "playing matches" but it also depends on "Training".
"No Training/Resting" = rapid declining of "Match Expertise" which might be a very negative thing.
Players by training not only improves their attributes but also build/keep their "Match Expertise" level.
When a player often "resting" then his "Match Expertise" drop much faster and even his CA might drop which to decreasing attributes.
So I'm trying to say that you need to very careful with "resting" thing. Yes, it might decrease "fatigue" but for what cost? Is it worth the cost? Expand
I am currently investigating the effects of fatigue, match sharpness, and condition, on performance, so I will have more to say once I have results here. That will set a good basis for the training schedule I will create, because it is good to know how much you gain while training, resting, or playing, for each of those.
Lapidus said: But don't forget when a players is resting and not training then his "Match Expertise/Sharpness" drops drastically which has a very negative impact on the performance.
So I think that's why "recovery" training session is always much beneficial than just "resting".
Any that's why you should be careful with "resting", yes, it reduces "fatigue" but the same time "Match Expertise/Sharpens" decreases faster. Expand
Yes, it is hard to optimize everything, as they are conflicting objectives. You need to play to increase sharpness, and need to rest to increase condition, while fatigue needs both to reach the point of equilibrium. And that is just for the physical aspect, but we should also try to increase player growth from training, and minimize injuries.
Delicious said: Ok after you mentionated the "fatigue", now all first XI went to Fatigue low ( but i didn't literally did nothing).
This is what i do :
- Rest first eleven for 1 day if i have 2-3 games in 1 week (i literally select them and rest them 1 day)
it's literally a tweak from cadoni2, this way i do believe i can keep the players condition(might be very wrong), otherwise i need to rest them for 2 days etc. I didn't check yours yet, but literally i am just worried about condition of the players. (usually i play with 11 core-players and 6-7 subs, all are wonderkids)
But if isn't the training, what's triggering the low "fatigue"? Just playing games? Expand
Players gain fatigue when they train and when they play. It is around 100-200 during a full match, from a scale of fatigue that goes from -500 to 1000. During training, it depends on intensity. Low fatigue is the range between 1 and 399.
I will test it thoroughly to see exactly how much it increases per training session and per match, and what attributes affect it, but that will take a while.
Steelwood said: That is what ZaZ has been using further up in this thread. My question regarding all of this is whether there is any improvement in attributes if it is only the fully fit players training Expand
Resting after matches will benefit the player in the long run. In short, playing increases attributes more than training, and resting to full allows them to be used more often. Also, training with lower condition increases the number of injuries, which hinder player growth.
Anyway, it is important to say that fatigue also affects injuries, and players with "low" fatigue get injured less than "fresh" players during matches. To be clear, when I say "low", I mean with the low indicator, which is higher fatigue than "fresh".
Delicious said: oh god, i always have my kids on fresh fatigue , but they perfom pretty good.
I need to check yours i guess, i am working around a tweak of cadoni's, and condition is pretty okay, but still if i don't rest them 1 day, they will start to collapse
Edit :
just checked on my first 11, 5 are low and 6 fresh... Expand
The difference on win rate is pretty massive. I will soon post a graph showing the win rate difference for different levels of fatigue.
bwig said: Interesting. You do always do instant results on your tests, right? I am on a longterm safe. Constantly do 100+ GD/season and ofc win everything. I play on extended 2D, used the training schedule of this guy copying AJAX youth system + senior squad plans. Now i swapped to yours and I get like 40-2 shots on target and can hardly win by 1 goal :O! How can we explain this? Squad is loaded and haven´t bought anyone - match familiarity 100% Expand
Nah, I usually play all the matches normally (only key moments). If you do 40-2 shots and cannot win, then you are just getting FMed.
letsgo9 said: I'm actually a football fitness coach/sports scientist, that's what looks like in terms of trainning intensity in real life, lol Not saying that works in the game, just spreading the roleplay haha Expand
I will do more experiments with training schedule later, after the results from fatigue. In short, players with "fresh" fatigue perform much worse than those with "low" fatigue (which perform much better than those getting fatigued or fatigued), which is how FM simulates the conditioning of muscles. The ideal training schedule should finish the pre-season with "low" fatigue, and keep it at that level during the whole season, so I will have to account fatigue gained during training, matches, and rotation.
I noticed that the “passing” attribute does not affect anything in terms of results in the game. Could you test this attribute in the possession tactics? Where the team has the ball more than 60 percent of the time and makes more than 650 passes. I would like to know whether it makes sense to pay attention to this attribute at all now.
Thank you
You have to keep in mind that it is not that it doesn't affect, but sometimes those attributes just have a side effect that counters their benefits. A clear example of that is work rate, which causes players to attempt more pressures per match, and that causes then to drain condition faster. The attribute does give some benefit to performance, but the loss of condition causes the player to lose performance as the match progresses.
In case of high passing, this means players will attempt less dribbles and runs, and give chance to more interceptions, which are very effective in the current match engine. On the other hand, it is even worse if you have bad passing, because then you will just be giving away possession all time.
In short, attributes affect the behavior of players, and that can cause them to lose performance as a side effect.
Unfortunately, there is no tactic that wins every time, unless the match engine is heavily biased towards some set of roles and instructions.
Thanks! It was almost a year ago, and she is fully recovered.
About the tactic, it is good, but there are better ones in the table.
Last year was a bit rough, with wife getting surgery, and other issues going on. Anyway, FM-Arena is testing more often, so there are a lot more good tactics going on.
It is probably RNG. Usually, with that setup, I get less injuries than expected, and less than the league average. However, if your players are rotten (high injury proneness), then they might get injured even while drinking water.
You guys are never happy
I mean, aren't they doing the same they have been doing since forever? There is always one update every ~30-40 days, until the final version at 23.4, around February or March.
That is what I will try to find out. =)
It actually follows this kind of curve below. The peak, zero, is the exact point where it changes from "Fresh" to "Low", so the ideal is to stay in that point of balance.
For reference, Fresh goes from -500 to 0, while Low goes from 1 to 399. I didn't test the number 600, which is when it starts to show "Rst" icon ( "Fatigued" ), but I assume it reaches minimum performance around that value.
Anyway, I am still collecting more data to consolidate those results, as well as checking the changes in numbers caused by playing and training.
"No Training/Resting" = rapid declining of "Match Expertise" which might be a very negative thing.
Players by training not only improves their attributes but also build/keep their "Match Expertise" level.
When a player often "resting" then his "Match Expertise" drop much faster and even his CA might drop which to decreasing attributes.
So I'm trying to say that you need to very careful with "resting" thing. Yes, it might decrease "fatigue" but for what cost? Is it worth the cost?
I am currently investigating the effects of fatigue, match sharpness, and condition, on performance, so I will have more to say once I have results here. That will set a good basis for the training schedule I will create, because it is good to know how much you gain while training, resting, or playing, for each of those.
So I think that's why "recovery" training session is always much beneficial than just "resting".
Any that's why you should be careful with "resting", yes, it reduces "fatigue" but the same time "Match Expertise/Sharpens" decreases faster.
Yes, it is hard to optimize everything, as they are conflicting objectives. You need to play to increase sharpness, and need to rest to increase condition, while fatigue needs both to reach the point of equilibrium. And that is just for the physical aspect, but we should also try to increase player growth from training, and minimize injuries.
This is what i do :
- Rest first eleven for 1 day if i have 2-3 games in 1 week (i literally select them and rest them 1 day)
it's literally a tweak from cadoni2, this way i do believe i can keep the players condition(might be very wrong), otherwise i need to rest them for 2 days etc. I didn't check yours yet, but literally i am just worried about condition of the players. (usually i play with 11 core-players and 6-7 subs, all are wonderkids)
But if isn't the training, what's triggering the low "fatigue"? Just playing games?
Players gain fatigue when they train and when they play. It is around 100-200 during a full match, from a scale of fatigue that goes from -500 to 1000. During training, it depends on intensity. Low fatigue is the range between 1 and 399.
I will test it thoroughly to see exactly how much it increases per training session and per match, and what attributes affect it, but that will take a while.
Steelwood said: That is what ZaZ has been using further up in this thread. My question regarding all of this is whether there is any improvement in attributes if it is only the fully fit players training
Resting after matches will benefit the player in the long run. In short, playing increases attributes more than training, and resting to full allows them to be used more often. Also, training with lower condition increases the number of injuries, which hinder player growth.
Anyway, it is important to say that fatigue also affects injuries, and players with "low" fatigue get injured less than "fresh" players during matches. To be clear, when I say "low", I mean with the low indicator, which is higher fatigue than "fresh".
Nice idea to test those tactics. =)
I need to check yours i guess, i am working around a tweak of cadoni's, and condition is pretty okay, but still if i don't rest them 1 day, they will start to collapse
Edit :
just checked on my first 11, 5 are low and 6 fresh...
The difference on win rate is pretty massive. I will soon post a graph showing the win rate difference for different levels of fatigue.
Yes, they still work fine. I don't think they changed much on training other than adding the new unified set pieces routine.
Nah, I usually play all the matches normally (only key moments). If you do 40-2 shots and cannot win, then you are just getting FMed.
letsgo9 said: I'm actually a football fitness coach/sports scientist, that's what looks like in terms of trainning intensity in real life, lol
Not saying that works in the game, just spreading the roleplay haha
I will do more experiments with training schedule later, after the results from fatigue. In short, players with "fresh" fatigue perform much worse than those with "low" fatigue (which perform much better than those getting fatigued or fatigued), which is how FM simulates the conditioning of muscles. The ideal training schedule should finish the pre-season with "low" fatigue, and keep it at that level during the whole season, so I will have to account fatigue gained during training, matches, and rotation.
Most PIs people use are already covered by "Run At Defense" and "Get Stuck In".