Gracolas said: What would be a good training schedule for non-professional clubs?
Im running this, but not sure if its the most effective:
Expand
It does not matter much. Most players in lower leagues have too low PA, and once you get promoted, it is often better to hire a complete new team of free player since better players will accept to play for you.
Sextuple said: Just tried doing this. Applied the table, set the intensity and been getting injuries all from training like once or twice a week. Expand
Check by the end of season if you are getting below or above the average from the league, and from what is expected from your team. Checking what happens one or two weeks in advance can be deceiving, since you can have just some bad luck.
Testing some different set pieces for attack and defend. Base tactic is this one. I do not expect major difference in performance, but I think there is a bit to grow in that area.
Got some time to test a few things, so here we go. I will start with this tactic as a benchmark (control) so I can test new set pieces, and a few variations for fun.
For contracts, I get the best results when I do something like this:
1. Remove all clauses and bonuses (and exclude from negotiation), and add a clause of 5% Sell On Fee Percentage. 2. Set Loyalty Bonus and Agent Fee to zero. 3. Lower Wage to around 80% of their request. 4. Suggest terms. 5. Remove all new clauses and bonuses (and exclude from negotiation). 6. Set Loyalty Bonus and Agent Fee to zero again. 7. Lower Wage to the middle ground between the previous offer and this new one (for example, if previous offer was 250k, and new offer is 300k, offer 275k). 8. Repeat from 4 until they accept.
In some specific cases, you might need to add one extra tick if they repeat the same request.
In my experience, that's the most effective way to minimize their demands and save a good amount of money.
P.S.: This doesn't work when they have a clause of "Wage after X matches". In that case, you usually have to keep the clause and also reduce just like the normal wage.
Geo said: what are your trainings for pre season and regular season? how is the evolution of your players with this training? and the physical condition? Expand
It is the same schedule for the whole season. The growth is high and balanced through all attributes, and the physical condition is enough for you to repeat your squad regularly.
Chriswin4 said: I don't fully trust the system ZAZ uses though, where he puts training intensity on none aside from the full green heart. Surely that limits development. Expand
There are a few facts that should be said. If you put those four points together, you will see why I prefer to use that setting.
1. Most injuries on training come from players under excellent condition, which is why routines usually have rest for everyone after matches. Injured players do not develop.
2. There is no reason to give sub-optimal training for the entire team just because 30% of the squad is tired after matches. That is harmful especially for the youngsters that do not play regularly.
3. Playing competitive matches is more important for development than training, so it is better to rest players to play more often than to force them to train while tired.
4. Resting players manually is one of the most boring tasks of FM, second only to praising and warning to manage morale. Automatizing this process allows you to enjoy the game more.
Keep in mind that it is still not the optimal setting. If you want to increase growth further, you can use the glitch to have more than two Match Practices per week. If you want to micromanage, you can also set young players with low susceptibility to injuries to train on double intensity, especially those that did not participate in matches.
ArsenalHighbury said: How fast does pace and acceleration improve in players, is there any point in having players at 18 or younger with around 11 pace/ acceleration and trying to get them to over 16+. Or is it just better to buy players already over 16+ in those attributes. Expand
Buying fast players is better on 99% of cases, because you can never be too sure how far young players will reach. Even a player with 200 PA can never reach 16+ Pace and Acceleration if he starts with low speed, so I would rather focus my efforts on hiring players with a head start.
Also, I don't want to be mean, but training youth players is more of a "roleplay" thing than something actually effective. Even if you can see their potential with something like FM Genie Scout, you only get one or two good prospects a year with top youth setup, and often you get nothing good.
pek80 said: Hi @ZaZ , have you test on Flair atribute? after playing 8-10 seasons my best striker (according to genieScout with vkvkvk balanced) keep perform worst and worst even when genie scout rating keep increasing. I try to find out why, and i find out that his flair drop from 16 when he arrived to 10 after 8 years at club. i just recognized that if i kept training him as complete forward or advance forward, flair attribute will getting lower and lower. His average rating keep decrease from 7.88 first year to 7.60 at 7th year. I want him to win Ballondor so badly that i try to cheat by adding him as a corner taker to increase assist lol (and it work! he win it and rating become 7.88 since he assist 20+ per season, how ever his league goal keep decreasing TT) Expand
FM-Arena tested Flair in previous editions and it has a minor impact in performance. Since it is a free attribute (no effect on CA), it means the more, the better.
About Flair decreasing, it is only natural, since younger players usually show off more than older players. Messi and CR7, for example, used to do very plastic plays in their youth, compared to what they do after 30. That does not mean they played better at that age, just that they did more beautiful dribbles.
About league goals, you should probably try some tactics with a single striker, since they are often better for winning those rewards.
BadA said: Maybe this isn't the right place for this question, but if anyone knows the answer it's @ZaZ .
From a player development standpoint, should I prioritize a tactic that maximizes one of the testing variables? In other words, will a tactic with 74 GF, but 69 GA help/hurt development vs. a tactic that tests at 65 GF and 58 GA?
Thanks! Expand
There is a correlation between player growth and player ratings after matches. That means if a player gets higher ratings, it will usually develop faster than a player that does not perform well so often. That being said, goals and assists usually contribute more for development than defensive statistics, so a tactic with 74 GF will PROBABLY be better for development than one with 65 GF. However, keep in mind that you can have tactics with very high GF and bad performance overall, so I assume you are considering tactics with the same rating in the table.
joncoughlan said: Brilliant tactic,started using it after the Hertha Berlin game.Probably my favourite tactic Ive used so far.Going to try it with a different team now. Expand
Gratz and thanks for testing! I hope you have lots of success with your new runs. =)
Geo said: what is the training routine to use with this tactic? Expand
The schedule I use for the entire season is shown below. Just make sure to set automatic rest for all players under excellent condition, like the second picture.
White Europe said: second season with Salernitana, we won double. As you can see we invested in Pace a lot, but after testing attributes for last few days i also think that tactic is very important too, and also investing in at least few other attributes then just pace, acceleration is vital.
saycarramrod said: @Mark@ZaZ I know you guys have a lot of experience using Genie Scout and modifying the ratings files on it - a quick question: if hypothetically I wanted to modify the ykykyk balanced or ZaZ ratings file to more heavily rate Pace and Acceleration (or any of the other ~7 or so attributes with most impact) is it as simple as just changing them to 100 in the ratings file in each individual position or is there some greater math behind them that other attribute ratings would need to be lowered for them to be increased? Expand
Increase it to 100 will give more weight, and reducing or removing less important attributes will increase the other weights even further.
Maths are simple. Let's say you have 5 attributes with wights, like below. Acceleration 100 Pace 100 Dribbling 80 Anticipation 60 Finishing 60
That's a total of 400 points, so Pace will be 25% of the score of a player. Then, let's say you remove Anticipation, Dribbling and Finishing (reduce them to zero weight). Now, Pace will be 50% of the score of a player, becoming even more important for the score.
It's not exactly that simple, but the logic is the same.
Mick1 said: Is ZaZ training the most effective? I'm having a few consecutive injuries Expand
Like @Pumpkin said, the training assumes you use automatic rest. The schedule he posted, with daily match practice, is more effective, but it uses a glitch that was not intended by the devs.
Pip said: @ZaZ or anyone, where would you suggest putting your best or fastest strikers in this? Expand
Middle player will get more opportunities, because he participates from attacks from left, right and middle. So, it's better to have the best striker there.
Guidito said: You always deliver my friend @ZaZ - thanks a million. Follow up question - did you notice any effect in training a player for a position that is not currently in the tactic?
Example - I have a promising winger from my intake. My tactic plays with DWs but im afraid if I start training my newgen as DW, some points will go to attributes like 'tackling'. I should train him as a W for example, so attributes go to dribbling or crossing. But im afraid the fact that im training them on a different role will impact how much they feel familiar with my tactic - get my point? Expand
I cannot say anything about the impact in win rate for training as W instead of DW, but I believe it should be negligible. Therefore, training as W will probably give a more focused growth than playing as DW for what you want. Keep in mind that this is micro-optimization and will probably have very little impact in performance, and some experiments would be needed to confirm if it actually has much influence on growth or not.
Sorry for the late answer, have been really busy recently. I made the experiment training DL as DR and AMR as AML, and it didn't have any noticeable effect in win rate. On the other hand, it increased my options for each of those positions, allowing me to use better players and actually increase my win rate.
For example, let's say you are searching for a DL, and you cannot find any good one, but instead you find a very good DR. You can just train him as DL.
A second example is when you have two DL and two DR in your squad. Let's say you have them like this: DL (180 CA) DL (179 CA) DR (160 CA) DR (158 CA)
If you train them in their normal positions, then your first team will have one side with 180 CA, and the other with 160 CA. However, if you train your wingbacks to play in both sides, then you can use the 180 and 179, which is clearly better.
Keep in mind that it takes some time to get them to accomplished, and even more to make them natural in those positions. It depends on their versatility hidden attribute, so it can take as short as the pre-season and a couple of matches, or as long as the whole season. My advice is to train them in the reverse position, use them in their natural position, and switch their sides when you have a comfortable lead (like winning 3-0 and 20 minutes to end the match) to make them learn the position faster.
Kamas1 said: Why do some players not develop at all? for example, I have a 21 year old defense (95 CA). He plays every game, his morale is high, he trains well, but he hasn't improved a single point all season. What it comes from? I will add that I run a team in the 2 bundesliga Expand
It probably has to do with the level of matches. Players from lower division "cap" at certain point of growth, which is usually when they want to leave the team to play on higher divisions. The best solution is to get promoted.
Pumpkin said: that's with no automatic resting those three sessions are the most three effective sessions and the more a player trains the more impact they get from training Expand
Yeah, that schedule is made to be used with automatic resting. In short, instead of resting the entire team after matches, you rest only those that got tired on matches, allowing you to have an overall higher growth.
Im running this, but not sure if its the most effective:
It does not matter much. Most players in lower leagues have too low PA, and once you get promoted, it is often better to hire a complete new team of free player since better players will accept to play for you.
Check by the end of season if you are getting below or above the average from the league, and from what is expected from your team. Checking what happens one or two weeks in advance can be deceiving, since you can have just some bad luck.
Both.
1. Remove all clauses and bonuses (and exclude from negotiation), and add a clause of 5% Sell On Fee Percentage.
2. Set Loyalty Bonus and Agent Fee to zero.
3. Lower Wage to around 80% of their request.
4. Suggest terms.
5. Remove all new clauses and bonuses (and exclude from negotiation).
6. Set Loyalty Bonus and Agent Fee to zero again.
7. Lower Wage to the middle ground between the previous offer and this new one (for example, if previous offer was 250k, and new offer is 300k, offer 275k).
8. Repeat from 4 until they accept.
In some specific cases, you might need to add one extra tick if they repeat the same request.
In my experience, that's the most effective way to minimize their demands and save a good amount of money.
P.S.: This doesn't work when they have a clause of "Wage after X matches". In that case, you usually have to keep the clause and also reduce just like the normal wage.
It is the same schedule for the whole season. The growth is high and balanced through all attributes, and the physical condition is enough for you to repeat your squad regularly.
There are a few facts that should be said. If you put those four points together, you will see why I prefer to use that setting.
1. Most injuries on training come from players under excellent condition, which is why routines usually have rest for everyone after matches. Injured players do not develop.
2. There is no reason to give sub-optimal training for the entire team just because 30% of the squad is tired after matches. That is harmful especially for the youngsters that do not play regularly.
3. Playing competitive matches is more important for development than training, so it is better to rest players to play more often than to force them to train while tired.
4. Resting players manually is one of the most boring tasks of FM, second only to praising and warning to manage morale. Automatizing this process allows you to enjoy the game more.
Keep in mind that it is still not the optimal setting. If you want to increase growth further, you can use the glitch to have more than two Match Practices per week. If you want to micromanage, you can also set young players with low susceptibility to injuries to train on double intensity, especially those that did not participate in matches.
Buying fast players is better on 99% of cases, because you can never be too sure how far young players will reach. Even a player with 200 PA can never reach 16+ Pace and Acceleration if he starts with low speed, so I would rather focus my efforts on hiring players with a head start.
Also, I don't want to be mean, but training youth players is more of a "roleplay" thing than something actually effective. Even if you can see their potential with something like FM Genie Scout, you only get one or two good prospects a year with top youth setup, and often you get nothing good.
FM-Arena tested Flair in previous editions and it has a minor impact in performance. Since it is a free attribute (no effect on CA), it means the more, the better.
About Flair decreasing, it is only natural, since younger players usually show off more than older players. Messi and CR7, for example, used to do very plastic plays in their youth, compared to what they do after 30. That does not mean they played better at that age, just that they did more beautiful dribbles.
About league goals, you should probably try some tactics with a single striker, since they are often better for winning those rewards.
From a player development standpoint, should I prioritize a tactic that maximizes one of the testing variables? In other words, will a tactic with 74 GF, but 69 GA help/hurt development vs. a tactic that tests at 65 GF and 58 GA?
Thanks!
There is a correlation between player growth and player ratings after matches. That means if a player gets higher ratings, it will usually develop faster than a player that does not perform well so often. That being said, goals and assists usually contribute more for development than defensive statistics, so a tactic with 74 GF will PROBABLY be better for development than one with 65 GF. However, keep in mind that you can have tactics with very high GF and bad performance overall, so I assume you are considering tactics with the same rating in the table.
joncoughlan said: Brilliant tactic,started using it after the Hertha Berlin game.Probably my favourite tactic Ive used so far.Going to try it with a different team now.
Gratz and thanks for testing! I hope you have lots of success with your new runs. =)
Geo said: what is the training routine to use with this tactic?
The schedule I use for the entire season is shown below. Just make sure to set automatic rest for all players under excellent condition, like the second picture.
As you can see we invested in Pace a lot, but after testing attributes for last few days i also think that tactic is very important too, and also investing in at least few other attributes then just pace, acceleration is vital.
great tactic!
Gratz, and thanks for showing your results!
Increase it to 100 will give more weight, and reducing or removing less important attributes will increase the other weights even further.
Maths are simple. Let's say you have 5 attributes with wights, like below.
Acceleration 100
Pace 100
Dribbling 80
Anticipation 60
Finishing 60
That's a total of 400 points, so Pace will be 25% of the score of a player. Then, let's say you remove Anticipation, Dribbling and Finishing (reduce them to zero weight). Now, Pace will be 50% of the score of a player, becoming even more important for the score.
It's not exactly that simple, but the logic is the same.
Like @Pumpkin said, the training assumes you use automatic rest. The schedule he posted, with daily match practice, is more effective, but it uses a glitch that was not intended by the devs.
Middle player will get more opportunities, because he participates from attacks from left, right and middle. So, it's better to have the best striker there.
Follow up question - did you notice any effect in training a player for a position that is not currently in the tactic?
Example - I have a promising winger from my intake.
My tactic plays with DWs but im afraid if I start training my newgen as DW, some points will go to attributes like 'tackling'. I should train him as a W for example, so attributes go to dribbling or crossing.
But im afraid the fact that im training them on a different role will impact how much they feel familiar with my tactic - get my point?
I cannot say anything about the impact in win rate for training as W instead of DW, but I believe it should be negligible. Therefore, training as W will probably give a more focused growth than playing as DW for what you want. Keep in mind that this is micro-optimization and will probably have very little impact in performance, and some experiments would be needed to confirm if it actually has much influence on growth or not.
Sorry for the late answer, have been really busy recently. I made the experiment training DL as DR and AMR as AML, and it didn't have any noticeable effect in win rate. On the other hand, it increased my options for each of those positions, allowing me to use better players and actually increase my win rate.
For example, let's say you are searching for a DL, and you cannot find any good one, but instead you find a very good DR. You can just train him as DL.
A second example is when you have two DL and two DR in your squad. Let's say you have them like this:
DL (180 CA)
DL (179 CA)
DR (160 CA)
DR (158 CA)
If you train them in their normal positions, then your first team will have one side with 180 CA, and the other with 160 CA. However, if you train your wingbacks to play in both sides, then you can use the 180 and 179, which is clearly better.
Keep in mind that it takes some time to get them to accomplished, and even more to make them natural in those positions. It depends on their versatility hidden attribute, so it can take as short as the pre-season and a couple of matches, or as long as the whole season. My advice is to train them in the reverse position, use them in their natural position, and switch their sides when you have a comfortable lead (like winning 3-0 and 20 minutes to end the match) to make them learn the position faster.
Kamas1 said: Why do some players not develop at all? for example, I have a 21 year old defense (95 CA). He plays every game, his morale is high, he trains well, but he hasn't improved a single point all season. What it comes from? I will add that I run a team in the 2 bundesliga
It probably has to do with the level of matches. Players from lower division "cap" at certain point of growth, which is usually when they want to leave the team to play on higher divisions. The best solution is to get promoted.
Pumpkin said: that's with no automatic resting those three sessions are the most three effective sessions and the more a player trains the more impact they get from training
Yeah, that schedule is made to be used with automatic resting. In short, instead of resting the entire team after matches, you rest only those that got tired on matches, allowing you to have an overall higher growth.
what about prefered foot on both winger
WL = Left Footed
WR = Right Footed
or it doesn't matter at all?
Foot doesn't matter, I usually even train my wingers to play on both sides so I have extra options.
Pace and Acceleration for everyone.