Lapidus said: The 20.3 patch for FM20 was released on 20 February so I think the 21.3 patch for FM21 should be available this week or the next week. Expand
I hope my set pieces work there, because I am doing over 50 holiday runs to optimize it.
I am currently trying two different set pieces. The first is very promising and gives me around +8 points per season, +10 goals for and -7 goals conceded. The second I just started collecting data, but gave me the highest points ever in a holiday test (might be just rng) anyway, gonna post below just for fun. 110 points in holiday mode is kinda sick.
crazyfmguy93 said: You use v3.0, right? When you watch the matches with this tactic, did you like the play? Passes and attacking positions?
in FM19 I used GLADIATOR, in FM20 I used FM20 (4-1-3-1-1) @SPARTAN@ v-1, they are very good tactics for winning and they look nice when you are watching matches. I mean of course I dont want to win every games. I want watch good games, eye-pleasing football. But all I see is stupid mistakes. Expand
I play with Blue 2.0, but I guess most here use Phoenix 3.0, since it's in the top of the table. If you want goals, then go for Motion or Void. Or maybe you can try Phoenix in the very attacking setting. I like the way Blue 2.0 plays, but I am biased to talk about it.
P.S.: You can sort the table by Goals For or Goal Difference if you want, as that would be a better measurement of entertaining football.
Do you ever try Phoenix-APDM? Which one is better? APDM or v3.0? Expand
To be honest, I tried APDM in Blue and it didn't make much difference. I can't understand why it performs so much better than the original in fm-base. It really puzzles me, because normal Phoenix is really low there, with just those two roles as difference. I am not saying it's biased, it's just beyond my comprehension. Magician also tested with APDM and he didn't identify that much of a difference.
media prediction is 20. Because the team have nothing at the begining. But when I take over, I have list for transfer. Great CA and positon rating. and after the transfers and loans, team become an average team for its league and I expect that this tactic helps me on my way. Sorry, it is not happening.
So thank you for a your great reply. It will help to people who start to play this game yesterday... not for me sorry. Expand
Try one of the other top tactics. Just like in real life, some tactics perform better in certain conditions. Some might give better results with a couple of players while others are better when the team makes less errors (due to pressure, bad players or other problems). Blue 2.0 and Phoenix 3.0 are in the top here, but might not be in the top for other rank, with a different methodology of testing. Other than that, some tactics are more entertaining to watch, even with worse results. I advise to try other tactics with 7.0, 6.9 or even lower ratings in the table and decide which you like the most. If you like seeing lots of goals, try Motion or Void. If you want a balanced tactic, try Blue 2.0 or Voila. You can also try Red, Fireball or several others that give very consistent results.
In my case, I obviously play with Blue 2.0, but I know others could be better under certain conditions.
P.S.: I also think Phoenix will give you better results if you are a bit patient, since I believe you just got out of luck in the first matches.
infxamus said: Switched to this tactic midseason, changed from the Defensive Winger role to Winger, did great for me, won the Champions League and FA Cup in my Forest Save! Unfortunately lost the Premier League title on the last day to Derby even though we had a way better xG than them, nonetheless its a great tactic Expand
Who cares about the League when you win UCL, right? Good results there, gratz!
ta2199 said: @ZaZ If I want more attacking power, should I changed mentality to Attacking or Very Attacking ? Expand
I would only change that if you are desperate, then you probably should go with very attacking instead. I might try to make a more attacking version for people that wants entertainment, but I tested before and it didn't get a good balance, performing worse than positive mentality. I will try to adjust some stuff like pass directness, width and such and see if I can make it perform well with attacking, so people can use it that way even when not desperate. But first I must finish my set pieces, it's looking good right now.
By the way, should name it something else, since all I did was put together set pieces of people and make minor adjustments. I am cooking some new set pieces that look promising, with some bigger changes compared to what I posted first. Need a bit more of data before I post it.
P.S.: Didn't check the changes @Mark did yet, but will as soon as I finish this.
Mark said: And this one seems to be working. It was well above the average of the other 2 best set piece routines. Motion best points total for a single run was 398 with an average of 372. Void best points total for a single run was 392 with an average of 359. My slight modification to Blue 2.1, I have called it Blue 3.0, was 383 (easily leading on averages). Scoring from corners. The best single run from any tactic was Void with 58 for the 5 sides for a single season. Blue 3.0 equaled that. Not much time in the next few days but now running Blue 3.0 with ZaZ Blue 2.0 instead of Pheonix to see how it goes overnight. I have corrected it against the set ups. This one seemed to change marginally.
As I wont be posting tomorrow, here is the tactic if you want to test @ZaZ Expand
I am gonna check and test here, add to my data and show the results. Whatever is better I will add together and see how it goes.
Right now I am trying to release some players from defense in situations of low risk, like throw ins and deep free kicks, to make counter attacking faster and see if it helps.
ta2199 said: Who take the Corners and Throw In ? or just anyone with best atributes ? Expand
I just let the players choose, based on their stats. But probably it should be one of the wingers.
Mark said: Final results just behind Motion, but still thinking that bizarre Leyton result impacted. I shall definitely be using Blue 2.1. I have now tested 13 set piece routines. Blue 2.1 is easily the best scoring from free kicks, second best defending corners, third best defending free kicks, and just below average scoring from corners. I left out a few of the worst tactics. Here is the updated table.
@Mark, can you test this, please, and tell me how it compares to others? You can also modify it if you find some improvement. Set pieces are a frankenstein using routines from fireball, phoenix, motion, void and blue.
P.S.: I am re-running the tests, to make sure I didn't overtrain to the save file I was using.
duxa92 said: Hi all!. Should IWB have the same foot as wingers? They have cut inside instruction. I usually try to teach them to play on opposit flank, and they usually recieve a bit higher ratings when they are inverted, but I don't know about whole tactical impact on the result. Expand
It doesn't make much of a difference. It's important for IF and IW because they cut for a shot. For IWB - Su, they don't cross or shoot much. It's basically a feature to define if they pass better to the center or the flanks of the field, but this formation is strong in both.
ta2199 said: I think It because all the key pass doesnt come from DLP. He only there for filling the hole between midfields and defenders Expand
There are two things that I would test. First is to set DLP pass to shorter in player instructions. Second would be setting it to DM - Su to use the player instruction take less risks. Then I would see if any of this improves the tactic or if they make it worse.
However, I am currently testing some new set pieces. Can you test those two options instead and tell me if any of them is any good, please?
P.S.: There's a possibility that it just can't be improved for this tactic, because of the role it plays. How many times have we seem a real life manager insisting in a player that the supporters hate, but he keeps saying that player is fundamental to the tactic?
ta2199 said: This is with De Jong I've tried change to DM(De) - The goal concede is less but still get bad point. I got 2nd with Fullham, only 1 point behind Liverpool Expand
Gonna watch a couple of matches to see if I spot something. I tried different roles for DM and only DM - Su had similar results to DLP - Su. That doesn't mean there isn't anything better, just that I couldn't spot the improvement. The low grades might just be because it's a transition role, doing short passes instead of key actions. If you check the numbers, it doesn't tackle much, it doesn't dribble, doesn't shoot or do other active actions, but it has a very high number of passes made per match, around double of other players. Maybe it just performs bad against teams with crowded midfield, or with good individual marking on him by some quality player. Anyway, I will watch in matches and see what causes the bad grades, but I have a feeling that it's just missed passes, since that position has the most passes made
ta2199 said: @ZaZ Any ideas to improve DM position ? I even have De Jong played there but still ~6.8 6.9 point Expand
Can you please open the page of your DM, then hover your mouse over reports (at the top) and click form? Then send me a print screen to analyze, please. Knowing what he is doing wrong will help finding a way to improve.
Just added Blue 2.1 to the table, which is how I am calling the version of Blue 2.0 with improved set pieces. I tried to follow the best for each kind of set pieces and the result is shown below.
There is definitely an improvement in attacking corners and defending free kicks (thanks to Motion and Phoenix set pieces). I also modified my throw-in set pieces and managed to get more goals, but no more than one in a whole season. I feel like I can improve the defending corners and attacking free kicks, so I will focus my effort in that for now. Let me know if you have any suggestions.
@Mark, what set pieces worked better for you for attacking free kicks and defending corners?
Raw data for Blue 2.1 is below, in spoiler. Spoiler
Mrcl25 said: Hi, I'm an old time player, I have played every edition from the old days of CM up until FM 2018, and actively participated in forums like the official SI Community and FM-Base. Due to lack of time in real life I skipped the last two versions but got back now in FM 2021. However with less time to play I searched for a really good plug and play tactic and found this. I signed up to this site just to say thank you to ZaZ for creating and sharing this tactic. I'm still in the beggining of my save but results have been far better than expected. I know it's only the state championship, but look at the table:
Expand
Thank you! I suppose Palmeiras is the favorite in the championship, right? Good results there. Remember that the most important attributes for any player are Acceleration and Pace, with Agility and Dribbling right after. You can check those stats in https://fm-arena.com/table/9-player-attributes-importance/. Also, I am optimizing the set pieces for Blue 2.0, so I might release a 2.1 version soon, improved in that area. Have fun!
I hope my set pieces work there, because I am doing over 50 holiday runs to optimize it.
in FM19 I used GLADIATOR, in FM20 I used FM20 (4-1-3-1-1) @SPARTAN@ v-1, they are very good tactics for winning and they look nice when you are watching matches. I mean of course I dont want to win every games. I want watch good games, eye-pleasing football. But all I see is stupid mistakes.
I play with Blue 2.0, but I guess most here use Phoenix 3.0, since it's in the top of the table. If you want goals, then go for Motion or Void. Or maybe you can try Phoenix in the very attacking setting. I like the way Blue 2.0 plays, but I am biased to talk about it.
P.S.: You can sort the table by Goals For or Goal Difference if you want, as that would be a better measurement of entertaining football.
Do you ever try Phoenix-APDM? Which one is better? APDM or v3.0?
To be honest, I tried APDM in Blue and it didn't make much difference. I can't understand why it performs so much better than the original in fm-base. It really puzzles me, because normal Phoenix is really low there, with just those two roles as difference. I am not saying it's biased, it's just beyond my comprehension. Magician also tested with APDM and he didn't identify that much of a difference.
wow!!!! Really?
media prediction is 20. Because the team have nothing at the begining. But when I take over, I have list for transfer. Great CA and positon rating. and after the transfers and loans, team become an average team for its league and I expect that this tactic helps me on my way. Sorry, it is not happening.
So thank you for a your great reply. It will help to people who start to play this game yesterday... not for me sorry.
Try one of the other top tactics. Just like in real life, some tactics perform better in certain conditions. Some might give better results with a couple of players while others are better when the team makes less errors (due to pressure, bad players or other problems). Blue 2.0 and Phoenix 3.0 are in the top here, but might not be in the top for other rank, with a different methodology of testing. Other than that, some tactics are more entertaining to watch, even with worse results. I advise to try other tactics with 7.0, 6.9 or even lower ratings in the table and decide which you like the most. If you like seeing lots of goals, try Motion or Void. If you want a balanced tactic, try Blue 2.0 or Voila. You can also try Red, Fireball or several others that give very consistent results.
In my case, I obviously play with Blue 2.0, but I know others could be better under certain conditions.
P.S.: I also think Phoenix will give you better results if you are a bit patient, since I believe you just got out of luck in the first matches.
They perform almost the same. It's probably just randomness.
Who cares about the League when you win UCL, right? Good results there, gratz!
ta2199 said: @ZaZ If I want more attacking power, should I changed mentality to Attacking or Very Attacking ?
I would only change that if you are desperate, then you probably should go with very attacking instead. I might try to make a more attacking version for people that wants entertainment, but I tested before and it didn't get a good balance, performing worse than positive mentality. I will try to adjust some stuff like pass directness, width and such and see if I can make it perform well with attacking, so people can use it that way even when not desperate. But first I must finish my set pieces, it's looking good right now.
P.S.: Didn't check the changes @Mark did yet, but will as soon as I finish this.
As I wont be posting tomorrow, here is the tactic if you want to test @ZaZ
I am gonna check and test here, add to my data and show the results. Whatever is better I will add together and see how it goes.
Right now I am trying to release some players from defense in situations of low risk, like throw ins and deep free kicks, to make counter attacking faster and see if it helps.
I just let the players choose, based on their stats. But probably it should be one of the wingers.
Mark said: Final results just behind Motion, but still thinking that bizarre Leyton result impacted. I shall definitely be using Blue 2.1. I have now tested 13 set piece routines. Blue 2.1 is easily the best scoring from free kicks, second best defending corners, third best defending free kicks, and just below average scoring from corners. I left out a few of the worst tactics. Here is the updated table.
Thanks for all your work @ZaZ.
At least it is an improvement over 2.0. I will keep playing around to see if I can improve further. Thanks for testing.
It will be more precise if you run on phoenix, like the others, but also extra work if one or other position is off.
P.S.: I am re-running the tests, to make sure I didn't overtrain to the save file I was using.
Then it's just that, the transition position that doesn't shine, but makes everyone work well.
It doesn't make much of a difference. It's important for IF and IW because they cut for a shot. For IWB - Su, they don't cross or shoot much. It's basically a feature to define if they pass better to the center or the flanks of the field, but this formation is strong in both.
There are two things that I would test. First is to set DLP pass to shorter in player instructions. Second would be setting it to DM - Su to use the player instruction take less risks. Then I would see if any of this improves the tactic or if they make it worse.
However, I am currently testing some new set pieces. Can you test those two options instead and tell me if any of them is any good, please?
P.S.: There's a possibility that it just can't be improved for this tactic, because of the role it plays. How many times have we seem a real life manager insisting in a player that the supporters hate, but he keeps saying that player is fundamental to the tactic?
I've tried change to DM(De) - The goal concede is less but still get bad point.
I got 2nd with Fullham, only 1 point behind Liverpool
Gonna watch a couple of matches to see if I spot something. I tried different roles for DM and only DM - Su had similar results to DLP - Su. That doesn't mean there isn't anything better, just that I couldn't spot the improvement. The low grades might just be because it's a transition role, doing short passes instead of key actions. If you check the numbers, it doesn't tackle much, it doesn't dribble, doesn't shoot or do other active actions, but it has a very high number of passes made per match, around double of other players. Maybe it just performs bad against teams with crowded midfield, or with good individual marking on him by some quality player. Anyway, I will watch in matches and see what causes the bad grades, but I have a feeling that it's just missed passes, since that position has the most passes made
Any ideas to improve DM position ? I even have De Jong played there but still ~6.8 6.9 point
Can you please open the page of your DM, then hover your mouse over reports (at the top) and click form? Then send me a print screen to analyze, please. Knowing what he is doing wrong will help finding a way to improve.
Great work mate
Running your suggestions now.
There is definitely an improvement in attacking corners and defending free kicks (thanks to Motion and Phoenix set pieces). I also modified my throw-in set pieces and managed to get more goals, but no more than one in a whole season. I feel like I can improve the defending corners and attacking free kicks, so I will focus my effort in that for now. Let me know if you have any suggestions.
@Mark, what set pieces worked better for you for attacking free kicks and defending corners?
Raw data for Blue 2.1 is below, in spoiler.
Spoiler
Thank you! I suppose Palmeiras is the favorite in the championship, right? Good results there. Remember that the most important attributes for any player are Acceleration and Pace, with Agility and Dribbling right after. You can check those stats in https://fm-arena.com/table/9-player-attributes-importance/. Also, I am optimizing the set pieces for Blue 2.0, so I might release a 2.1 version soon, improved in that area. Have fun!