skywalk3r83 said: Do you think your training schedule can work for Phoenix 4.0 or one of the other similar tactics? And what do you advise when having 2 of 0 matches? Expand
It works for any tactic. When I have less than two matches in a week, I usually set up friendlies to get some income and keep sharpness. During pre-season, I swap the teamwork, attacking movement and defensive shape for endurance training. Here is how it looks during pre-season and during match season. I altered to include match days so they don't swap some training sessions for match preview.
P.S.: I train endurance because natural fitness and stamina reduce the number of injuries during the season.
Just added the Blue 2.2 to the initial post. I removed from the other post so people don't get confused. The difference from 2.1 is Use Tighter Marking. It seems like marking was improved in this match engine and tighter marking is a must. It makes noticiable difference to me, so I hope people can also benefit from this change.
For some reason, using tighter marking as a team instruction works better than adding to player instructions (probably because DW can't have that instruction?), while dribbling more works better in player instruction than in team instruction. It might be just RNG, though.
ta2199 said: I do think training can impact the result or at least the GD
Zaz training Balanced training Attack training
Also, the tactic ifself is great but Tottenham have to play 2 or even 3 match per week for a very long time, that explained why they usually have poor result in the game. Expand
That's nice, never thought about the impact of training in the results. I mean, it definitely has an impact, but it would be nice to make a comparison to see "which is the most effective training schedule", considering points per match and total attribute gain.
Mark said: I ran Blue 2.2 with my current save at the start of the game. Had a heap of friendlies arranged which I thought would give players a chance to get used to the tactic. St Albans were the worst ranked side in the comp, and I did a base line when I started which ended up 16th. Only 18 players in the squad so was always going to be hard to do well. In my real save I ended up bringing in a fair few decent young players. For this though, I just went on holidays and set it to not allow players to leave and to use Blue 2.2 tactics.
Results were very impressive. St Albans finished 2nd with 73 pts from their 40 League matches.
Home games were best and I think the 9 draws away could have been a bit unlucky. Went through and looked at all the draws and losses. St Albans had higher xG on 4 of the 7 losses and 9 of the 13 draws. I would call that unlucky not to have won the competition.
With the squad of just 18 players, the stats somehow covered 48 games, must be the cups as well. 10 of the players played 40 games plus as run on players. Shows they didn't have much depth.
I would call this a very good tactic for lower league underdog sides. Expand
Good to know it works well for others. Here it performs much better then 2.1. I'm still finishing tests to see if I find some last improvement before releasing the version 3.0. Meanwhile, my Leamington side (that one from lower leagues) is doing very well. In the first, season it won Vanarama North and FA Trophy. In the second, it won Vanarama National League. Now (the third) it is in the way to win Vanarama League Two. It also became professional in this thir season, improved training and youth facilities once and just started improving training and youth facilities for the second time (which ate most of my money). Youth recruitment and youth coaching were also improved two times, meaning I will probably get someone useful in the next batch of youngsters.
Anyway, it's very noticiable the improvement by Blue 2.2 in that league. My team didn't lose there yet, despite being the weakest in the league. For attributes, I'm the lowest in almost everything, except pace, acceleration, agility and balance, which I'm the first.
ta2199 said: That why I prefered Att training so the Player get better finishing. So many games end up with my team with better chances and xG but still draw or lose. Expand
Nothing leaves a worse taste in the mouth than completely dominating the opponent, but scoring no goals, while they shoot just once and win the game. That's FM for you.
P.S.: By the way, is there a way to set training automatically every year, for the entire year? I always have to do it from scratch in the start of season, then I make one week and copy/paste to all others. Is there a faster way to do so?
ta2199 said: Can you export that schedule ? I'm bit lazy Anyway, result with V2.2. We should have won the match vs MU Expand
I removed the set pieces training since it was just added because of my current club's vision. Instead, I added two recovery sessions to reduce chance of injury during the season, but you can change it if you like. I'm not sure if it's the best training schedule, but at least it focuses in match benefits, happiness/cohesion/familiarity, injury prevention and the most important attributes. (P.S.3: Remember to set training intensity to double for players in excellent condition. That can be done in Training -> Rest.)
P.S.: Just got kicked from FA Cub by a team two divisions under me, playing at home. Before that, I won a match 10-0, so the players got complacent. =/
ta2199 said: What do you suggested for general training ? Expand
This is what I use. Matches are saturdays and wednesdays in my current league.
Reasoning is: - Attacking Movement, Defensive Shape and Teamwork: Bonus for next match - Quickness: Most important attributes to train - Match Practice and Team Bonding: Happiness and cohesion. - Recovery: Injury prevention - Overall: Usually has a match day instead. - Attacking Corners and Attacking Free Kicks: Current club vision has "Make the most of set pieces".
I've found some improvement in version 2.2. I'm now working in making it stable to release a 3.0 version soon. However, Phoenix got a bit too close to Blue, so I wonder if I should keep working on it or try something completely new.
ta2199 said: Change IWB(s) to FB(s) kinda work out Expand
I'm trying to identify what kind of crosses are better, if from deep or from the byline. I can see lots of crosses from the byline, more than before, using the same tactic. It seems like my forwards are seeking more the flanks when in the attacking third, which means my wingers are advancing more to that area. Before, the majority of attacking actions came from wingers with through ball to the shadow strikers. It really changed how the matches unfold.
ta2199 said: Nah, I tested a lots with MU, with 4 or 5 save, the most common type when conceding is Cross and Through balls. I mean damn, they have 3 to 5 shots and then 1 cross from midfield, boom 1 goal Expand
It might be just me, but my players are trying (or succeeding) way more crosses than before. I think that's why formations without IWB or with AML/R are performing better. I need to play a bit more to confirm this and see if I find another clue. Goals from crosses per season have increased over 50%.
infxamus said: I changed to Defensive Winger to Winger and tried it with and Man United and sheesh this is indeed the best 2 striker tactic right now... Expand
Thanks! It helps that people stopped trying with two strikers.
ta2199 said: Do you have any ideas on how to prevent conceding from crosses ? Expand
I just started playing in the new ME, trying to observe what changed. I see less through balls than before, not sure if it's just a coincidence. I will pay attention and see if my crosses are going through. If they are, then we know where to improve to score more and concede less. Also, we just got a new leader in the table, so there might be some hints there.
At the start of every pre-season, I always reduce the agreed playing time of all players to the lowest, then increase it back one step at a time until they drop their concern, to make sure they expect to play as little as possible. That helps keeping the team happy during the season. This is not an exploit, since it comes with the cost of morale.
However, I discovered a little glitch. First, do what I described above, reducing playing time, then increasing again so the player drops the concern. At that moment, you can drop agreed playing time again to as little as possible without any complaint. For example, I set all my players to Emergency Backup, then five matches later they were all delighted with their playing time. I believe this happens because when they drop concern, they are blocked of being concerned for the same reason.
Anyway, play fair and do just the non-exploit part, when they drop concern.
Added 2.1 version, with improved set pieces. The improvement was around 8 points per season last patch, but this patch it's only 3 or 4. I will try to improve set pieces further after a break.
Also, I tried different formations, roles and team instructions, but couldn't find any relevant improvement yet. Gonna take a break before trying again. Time to play and see if I notice where it can be improved inside the ME.
Removed from the previous post so people don't get confused. These are the set pieces I will be using. The improvement was way bigger in previous patch, now it barely improves 3 or 4 points per season. Anyway, must test positions and roles again, since the patch gave some room to grow. Once I find a good formation, I might go back to set pieces again.
ta2199 said: Yeah, so you guys have to be cautious about that. Even when you are drawing or losing 1,2,3 goal or winning 1 goal the assistant will change mentality to Balanced But still I have good result with it, so @ZaZ maybe have a look with Balanced mentality Expand
Gonna check everything as soon as I am done with set pieces. Had to redo everything. Two more batches to go before I am done.
ta2199 said: Today I discoverd that If I only set the match plan like this The AM will change the mentality to Balance instead of Positive during the game Expand
Try to add Blue 2.0 when winning 1+ or not winning. Not sure if that's the problem, but it shouldn't go to balanced ever. Bad programming there.
Defense is more leaky this patch, so I think Very Attacking tactics might perform great. Look forward for the results of Motion to confirm or deny this statement.
Just did a holiday run to see the impact of new patch. Results are still acceptable. I will run more tests to see how it's performing, then try to find some improvements in the tactic.
And what do you advise when having 2 of 0 matches?
It works for any tactic. When I have less than two matches in a week, I usually set up friendlies to get some income and keep sharpness. During pre-season, I swap the teamwork, attacking movement and defensive shape for endurance training. Here is how it looks during pre-season and during match season. I altered to include match days so they don't swap some training sessions for match preview.
P.S.: I train endurance because natural fitness and stamina reduce the number of injuries during the season.
For some reason, using tighter marking as a team instruction works better than adding to player instructions (probably because DW can't have that instruction?), while dribbling more works better in player instruction than in team instruction. It might be just RNG, though.
Zaz training
Balanced training
Attack training
Also, the tactic ifself is great but Tottenham have to play 2 or even 3 match per week for a very long time, that explained why they usually have poor result in the game.
That's nice, never thought about the impact of training in the results. I mean, it definitely has an impact, but it would be nice to make a comparison to see "which is the most effective training schedule", considering points per match and total attribute gain.
Mark said: I ran Blue 2.2 with my current save at the start of the game. Had a heap of friendlies arranged which I thought would give players a chance to get used to the tactic. St Albans were the worst ranked side in the comp, and I did a base line when I started which ended up 16th. Only 18 players in the squad so was always going to be hard to do well. In my real save I ended up bringing in a fair few decent young players. For this though, I just went on holidays and set it to not allow players to leave and to use Blue 2.2 tactics.
Results were very impressive. St Albans finished 2nd with 73 pts from their 40 League matches.
Home games were best and I think the 9 draws away could have been a bit unlucky. Went through and looked at all the draws and losses. St Albans had higher xG on 4 of the 7 losses and 9 of the 13 draws. I would call that unlucky not to have won the competition.
With the squad of just 18 players, the stats somehow covered 48 games, must be the cups as well. 10 of the players played 40 games plus as run on players. Shows they didn't have much depth.
I would call this a very good tactic for lower league underdog sides.
Good to know it works well for others. Here it performs much better then 2.1. I'm still finishing tests to see if I find some last improvement before releasing the version 3.0. Meanwhile, my Leamington side (that one from lower leagues) is doing very well. In the first, season it won Vanarama North and FA Trophy. In the second, it won Vanarama National League. Now (the third) it is in the way to win Vanarama League Two. It also became professional in this thir season, improved training and youth facilities once and just started improving training and youth facilities for the second time (which ate most of my money). Youth recruitment and youth coaching were also improved two times, meaning I will probably get someone useful in the next batch of youngsters.
Anyway, it's very noticiable the improvement by Blue 2.2 in that league. My team didn't lose there yet, despite being the weakest in the league. For attributes, I'm the lowest in almost everything, except pace, acceleration, agility and balance, which I'm the first.
ta2199 said: That why I prefered Att training so the Player get better finishing. So many games end up with my team with better chances and xG but still draw or lose.
Nothing leaves a worse taste in the mouth than completely dominating the opponent, but scoring no goals, while they shoot just once and win the game. That's FM for you.
P.S.: By the way, is there a way to set training automatically every year, for the entire year? I always have to do it from scratch in the start of season, then I make one week and copy/paste to all others. Is there a faster way to do so?
Anyway, result with V2.2. We should have won the match vs MU
I removed the set pieces training since it was just added because of my current club's vision. Instead, I added two recovery sessions to reduce chance of injury during the season, but you can change it if you like. I'm not sure if it's the best training schedule, but at least it focuses in match benefits, happiness/cohesion/familiarity, injury prevention and the most important attributes. (P.S.3: Remember to set training intensity to double for players in excellent condition. That can be done in Training -> Rest.)
P.S.: Just got kicked from FA Cub by a team two divisions under me, playing at home. Before that, I won a match 10-0, so the players got complacent. =/
P.S.2: Do you feel the difference with Blue 2.2?
This is what I use. Matches are saturdays and wednesdays in my current league.
Reasoning is:
- Attacking Movement, Defensive Shape and Teamwork: Bonus for next match
- Quickness: Most important attributes to train
- Match Practice and Team Bonding: Happiness and cohesion.
- Recovery: Injury prevention
- Overall: Usually has a match day instead.
- Attacking Corners and Attacking Free Kicks: Current club vision has "Make the most of set pieces".
Feel free to change anything.
I'm trying to identify what kind of crosses are better, if from deep or from the byline. I can see lots of crosses from the byline, more than before, using the same tactic. It seems like my forwards are seeking more the flanks when in the attacking third, which means my wingers are advancing more to that area. Before, the majority of attacking actions came from wingers with through ball to the shadow strikers. It really changed how the matches unfold.
I mean damn, they have 3 to 5 shots and then 1 cross from midfield, boom 1 goal
It might be just me, but my players are trying (or succeeding) way more crosses than before. I think that's why formations without IWB or with AML/R are performing better. I need to play a bit more to confirm this and see if I find another clue. Goals from crosses per season have increased over 50%.
Thanks! It helps that people stopped trying with two strikers.
I just started playing in the new ME, trying to observe what changed. I see less through balls than before, not sure if it's just a coincidence. I will pay attention and see if my crosses are going through. If they are, then we know where to improve to score more and concede less. Also, we just got a new leader in the table, so there might be some hints there.
However, I discovered a little glitch. First, do what I described above, reducing playing time, then increasing again so the player drops the concern. At that moment, you can drop agreed playing time again to as little as possible without any complaint. For example, I set all my players to Emergency Backup, then five matches later they were all delighted with their playing time. I believe this happens because when they drop concern, they are blocked of being concerned for the same reason.
Anyway, play fair and do just the non-exploit part, when they drop concern.
Also, I tried different formations, roles and team instructions, but couldn't find any relevant improvement yet. Gonna take a break before trying again. Time to play and see if I notice where it can be improved inside the ME.
P.S.: "Never" = used once, then saw it reset and didn't use again.
Even when you are drawing or losing 1,2,3 goal or winning 1 goal the assistant will change mentality to Balanced
But still I have good result with it, so @ZaZ maybe have a look with Balanced mentality
Gonna check everything as soon as I am done with set pieces. Had to redo everything. Two more batches to go before I am done.
The AM will change the mentality to Balance instead of Positive during the game
Try to add Blue 2.0 when winning 1+ or not winning. Not sure if that's the problem, but it shouldn't go to balanced ever. Bad programming there.
Good results particularly with 1 elite team, please check on RDF's discord under K2 Tactic Testing Channel.
https://discord.gg/3UaqJHQjMK
Defense is more leaky this patch, so I think Very Attacking tactics might perform great. Look forward for the results of Motion to confirm or deny this statement.