Pulsar said: Also, "Run At Defense" won't make much difference when you manage Barca, Liverpool, Man City or any other top club because anyway many attacking players in those teams already have "Runs With Ball Often" Player Trait so "Run At Defense", "Dribble More" or "Dribble Less" instructions won't make any difference for them.
Just look at the player traits of Messi, Salah and Mane
That's why any tactic works very well with such teams as Barca, Liverpool, Man City and so on, it's not only because the players in those teams have crazy attributes but that's also because many players in those teams have many preset "locked" tactical instructions in their player traits so that makes a poor tactic works good. Expand
More dribbling is better than less dribbling, but there is way more than that for a tactic.
Egraam said: I'm not 100% sure about TI and PI not stacking - tackle harder and Get Stuck In should be the same thing, but if you have tackle harder on every player and then add Get Stuck In, the tactic intensity increases - it works the same the other way around, if you start removing tackle harder PI from tactic that has Get Stuck In, the tactic intensity decreases anyway. Expand
I remember I removed both get stuck in and run at defense from Blue because they made no difference. All my players have both tackle harder and dribble more often, which might explain why it didn't change anything. However, I alread tested removing player instructions and adding only TIs, and it performed worse. Also, Light Blue has tackle harder PI with stay on feet TI and it concedes very few fouls. Does that mean TI have priority over PI? Or they actually stack in a weird way?
ZaZ said: I wonder why Run at Defense doesn't make much difference. Judging by the results, now with Agility too, as well as Acceleration, Pace and Dribbling, it should be a super effective TI. Expand
Ohh, it doesn't stack? I always thought those instructions stacked. Will it be the same if I remove from PI and add to TI instead?
We've tried decreasing Acceleration and Pace attributes for different tactics and the result was almost the same. Expand
I wonder why Run at Defense doesn't make much difference. Judging by the results, now with Agility too, as well as Acceleration, Pace and Dribbling, it should be a super effective TI.
I didn't expect Off The Ball to be useless. For now, we can say lack of Acceleration and Pace have the worst effect, specially for defense (which means it is twice as important for defenders), while Dribble is the third more important stat. Finishing and Working Rate can be safely ignored, while Technique, Off The Ball and Strength are nearly as unimportant.
I look forward to see more. I am curious to know if Tackling or Marking are actually useful. I usually put lots of focus on Tackling. I am also looking forward for First Touch.
P.S.: Now that's a surprise, considering I have always ignored balance. It didn't affect GF so much, so I assume it's more important in defenders, as well as anticipation.
That moment when you realize finishing is useless. To be honest, I saw somewhere that strikers with low finishing perform better, because finishing has high weight and that means you can get more of other stats. The same for decision. However, I didn't expect finishing to make no difference at all.
P.S.: I look forward for stats like Determination, Aggression and Flair, which cost no points in CA
Zealot said: Actually, Dirtiness is a negative attribute.
The higher dirtiness, the higher chances of seeing the player doing some bizarre stuff like punching his opponent or spitting on him or producing two footed tackle and so on... you really don't want having players with high dirtiness in your team.
To catch a fast winger a defender must be just as fast as the winger and has high Work Rate, Aggression and Bravery attributes. Expand
I was joking, like "only way to stop is breaking his legs".
Zippo said: I don't think it's about better crossing I think it's about better penetration inside the box. It looks like wingers do that more easily than inverted wingers
Expand
That makes sense, since cutting to the middle is usually a horizontal move, opening for a shoot, while dribbling to the outside is more vertical, to cover more distance closer to the byline (and therefore closer to the box).
P.S.: Checking the video, you can also notice that a player more wide in the field usually has more space to run and make use of his speed, with a bigger distance to opponents. That increases the chance to succeed in dribbling, which makes it a better decision. That way, wide winger with same feet attempt infiltration more often than those with opposing feet.
I find the tactic works better with a left footed winger on the left and with a right footed winger on the right. Expand
I feel like that too, but I would like to test if it's true or not. I think it might not make much difference since this formation scores very little from crosses.
I am not surprised since most goals from this formation happen from through balls, which require acceleration and speed both to score as well as preventing from opponent. By the same rule, other important stats should be off the ball and anticipation, as well as other attributes that would benefit a poacher.
ta2199 said: Can you show a Match plan for Light Blue ? I want to auto change to Light Blue, I can see that we can add some touchline instructions with match plan Expand
It depends on what you want to achieve. Sometimes I use Light Blue from start when opponent is stronger, because not winning can make the opponent nervous and make mistakes. Then I switch to Blue at second half to take advantage of that. Sometimes I play the entire match with Light Blue because I need to rest players, when I have two matches in three days and my squad is too small to rotate. Other times I just change to Light Blue when winning by one or two goals to hold the score and avoid risks. Anyway, if you are playing with a good team, I would just put to change to Light Blue when winning by two or more in the first half or 1 or more in the second half.
The problem is, Light Blue is a tactic made to concede less goals, rest players and receive less cards, while not being much worse than Blue 2.0. If you don't care about resting and making less fouls and just want to concede less goals, then it's better to just change the mentality to cautious. While cautious Blue 2.0 would score 6.9-7.0 here, Light Blue would probably score 6.6-6.8, since wasting time and staying on feet have a cost in performance.
Docus said: Hello everybody and thanks for this tactics Magician.
I would like to make a few remarks. Very good for underdogs team to my mind. I play with Guingamp in Ligue 2 (French 2nd division) and the results are incredible: 1st season: championship won (promotion expected) 2nd season: 3thd in Ligue 1 (expected 20th) 3rd season: 2nd (expected 16th) and finalist against Chelsea in Europa League 4th season: 2nd at half season
What is very interesting is that every player in the squad can score and not just the attacking players. But the flip side is that forwards don't score a lot (my best is 22 goals on 38 games).
It is very impressive how my team can be very strong (at least not ridiculous) againt top teams but also frustating to see that it can be very laborious agasint low teams (no large win).
The big downside is the ratio shots on target conceded vs goals conceded. The opponent only needs an average of 3 shots on target to score a goal. So yes I don't concede a lot per match but it happens very often to me to take a goal when the opponent has shot only once. And my goalkeeper very rarely gets good grades. He's not the one who can win me a game.
This could be explained by the fact that I play with an underdog team and my players are weak but I have the same statistics playing three seasons with Tottenham. Harry Kane is very disappointing.
This is not a criticism but I would like to know if the observation is also shared.
I have the impression that this tactic is good with any player on the field and that having top players does not improve it.
Thanks for this tactic and for reading me and sorry for my english i'm not a native Expand
The opponent needs 3 shots to score, but how many shots do they get per match? Maybe the tactic is so safe in the defense that opponents only get to shoot when they manage a perfect pass or cross that leaves the striker 1v1, not managing to shoot from other conditions. Then, it's natural to concede with few shots, since you stopped most other situations to become dangerous.
P.S.: From tactics that score over 2.5 goals a match, this one has the second best defense (least goals conceded), which means the 3 shots per goal is not so meaningful.
Magician said: Also, it's very important to know that the MC position is one of the most important positions in the tactic because it greatly contributes in scoring goals and making assistance.
For example, in my test with Man City Kevin De Bruyne scored 44 goals and made 33 assistances at the end of the season, the MC position was among the highest scoring positions in the tactic.
So for the MC position you need a player who can score goals and make assistance. Expand
I can confirm. central midfielder is the most important position in this formation.
ta2199 said: Will try it and report results later. Also gonna try it with blue 2.0 to see if it make any diff ? @ZaZ Do you suggested to changed to cautious or Very Defensive ? Expand
Cautious will reduce the amount of goals while giving you around the same chance of winning the match and saving a bit of energy. It's effective even if you are 0-0 or with a one goal lead, not bringing much risk of losing while resting your players. Very defensive, on the other hand, is better if just for a short time or if you have a massive lead, since you basically give up on scoring opportunities and might risk the result if the enemy manages to find a goal. However, it rests your players way better. You can always use both. Too bad you can only train 3 mentalities at once.
Played six more matches, two of them being in the FA Cup. In both the cup matches, I used the same strategy to frustrate the opponent using Light Blue 2.0 before switching to Blue 2.0 and take advantage of nervous players. I had nothing to lose, but they would get more nervous as time passes without winning. For reference, Notts County was one division above, while Gilligham was three leagues above. Luckily, I won both and got almost 50k euros from prize money and television.
In the league, I won two matches, got a tie and a defeat. Currently I am in second place in the league and will face a team from one league above in next match of FA Cup, away from home. A victory would allow me to have a positive projection by the end of season, allowing me to hire five more players and have two players in each position. However, I won't count eggs before they hatch. In the meantime, I invited 30 players willing to transfer in a 4 weeks trial, to scout them.
Below is the match schedule with results and my finances. From 127k of projected loss, we are now at 16k of loss, which is pretty good.
I also picked the match against Gilligham as the highlight. It wasn't the most exciting match, but it was a psychological battle. Keep an eye at opponent's body language and watch them going nervous as time passes. They started with two nervous players in the first half, when I was using Light Blue 2.0 to frustrate them. By the second half, they had five nervous players, giving me an edge when I switched to Blue 2.0.
Now I have three more matches before FA Cup. Since the first match, we play twice a week, which is making this run into a battle to manage the condition of players.
I don't want to be mean, maybe the tactic is really good. However, 316 goals in 38 matches, maybe you have a couple of Messis as new gen playing against a bunch of children. You should probably give a chance to those players in the main team.
Just look at the player traits of Messi, Salah and Mane
That's why any tactic works very well with such teams as Barca, Liverpool, Man City and so on, it's not only because the players in those teams have crazy attributes but that's also because many players in those teams have many preset "locked" tactical instructions in their player traits so that makes a poor tactic works good.
More dribbling is better than less dribbling, but there is way more than that for a tactic.
I remember I removed both get stuck in and run at defense from Blue because they made no difference. All my players have both tackle harder and dribble more often, which might explain why it didn't change anything. However, I alread tested removing player instructions and adding only TIs, and it performed worse. Also, Light Blue has tackle harder PI with stay on feet TI and it concedes very few fouls. Does that mean TI have priority over PI? Or they actually stack in a weird way?
Ohh, it doesn't stack? I always thought those instructions stacked. Will it be the same if I remove from PI and add to TI instead?
https://fm-arena.com/tactic/615-pep-guardiola-s-barcelona-masterpiece-4-3-3/
https://fm-arena.com/tactic/618-4-2-3-1-road-to-glory-fm21-tiki-taka-tactics/
We've tried decreasing Acceleration and Pace attributes for different tactics and the result was almost the same.
I wonder why Run at Defense doesn't make much difference. Judging by the results, now with Agility too, as well as Acceleration, Pace and Dribbling, it should be a super effective TI.
I look forward to see more. I am curious to know if Tackling or Marking are actually useful. I usually put lots of focus on Tackling. I am also looking forward for First Touch.
P.S.: Now that's a surprise, considering I have always ignored balance. It didn't affect GF so much, so I assume it's more important in defenders, as well as anticipation.
P.S.: I look forward for stats like Determination, Aggression and Flair, which cost no points in CA
The higher dirtiness, the higher chances of seeing the player doing some bizarre stuff like punching his opponent or spitting on him or producing two footed tackle and so on... you really don't want having players with high dirtiness in your team.
To catch a fast winger a defender must be just as fast as the winger and has high Work Rate, Aggression and Bravery attributes.
I was joking, like "only way to stop is breaking his legs".
The only way to stop a player like that is with a defender with high dirtness.
That makes sense, since cutting to the middle is usually a horizontal move, opening for a shoot, while dribbling to the outside is more vertical, to cover more distance closer to the byline (and therefore closer to the box).
P.S.: Checking the video, you can also notice that a player more wide in the field usually has more space to run and make use of his speed, with a bigger distance to opponents. That increases the chance to succeed in dribbling, which makes it a better decision. That way, wide winger with same feet attempt infiltration more often than those with opposing feet.
I find the tactic works better with a left footed winger on the left and with a right footed winger on the right.
I feel like that too, but I would like to test if it's true or not. I think it might not make much difference since this formation scores very little from crosses.
I want to auto change to Light Blue, I can see that we can add some touchline instructions with match plan
It depends on what you want to achieve. Sometimes I use Light Blue from start when opponent is stronger, because not winning can make the opponent nervous and make mistakes. Then I switch to Blue at second half to take advantage of that. Sometimes I play the entire match with Light Blue because I need to rest players, when I have two matches in three days and my squad is too small to rotate. Other times I just change to Light Blue when winning by one or two goals to hold the score and avoid risks. Anyway, if you are playing with a good team, I would just put to change to Light Blue when winning by two or more in the first half or 1 or more in the second half.
The problem is, Light Blue is a tactic made to concede less goals, rest players and receive less cards, while not being much worse than Blue 2.0. If you don't care about resting and making less fouls and just want to concede less goals, then it's better to just change the mentality to cautious. While cautious Blue 2.0 would score 6.9-7.0 here, Light Blue would probably score 6.6-6.8, since wasting time and staying on feet have a cost in performance.
I would like to make a few remarks.
Very good for underdogs team to my mind. I play with Guingamp in Ligue 2 (French 2nd division) and the results are incredible:
1st season: championship won (promotion expected)
2nd season: 3thd in Ligue 1 (expected 20th)
3rd season: 2nd (expected 16th) and finalist against Chelsea in Europa League
4th season: 2nd at half season
What is very interesting is that every player in the squad can score and not just the attacking players.
But the flip side is that forwards don't score a lot (my best is 22 goals on 38 games).
It is very impressive how my team can be very strong (at least not ridiculous) againt top teams but also frustating to see that it can be very laborious agasint low teams (no large win).
The big downside is the ratio shots on target conceded vs goals conceded. The opponent only needs an average of 3 shots on target to score a goal. So yes I don't concede a lot per match but it happens very often to me to take a goal when the opponent has shot only once. And my goalkeeper very rarely gets good grades. He's not the one who can win me a game.
This could be explained by the fact that I play with an underdog team and my players are weak but I have the same statistics playing three seasons with Tottenham. Harry Kane is very disappointing.
This is not a criticism but I would like to know if the observation is also shared.
I have the impression that this tactic is good with any player on the field and that having top players does not improve it.
Thanks for this tactic and for reading me and sorry for my english i'm not a native
The opponent needs 3 shots to score, but how many shots do they get per match? Maybe the tactic is so safe in the defense that opponents only get to shoot when they manage a perfect pass or cross that leaves the striker 1v1, not managing to shoot from other conditions. Then, it's natural to concede with few shots, since you stopped most other situations to become dangerous.
P.S.: From tactics that score over 2.5 goals a match, this one has the second best defense (least goals conceded), which means the 3 shots per goal is not so meaningful.
For example, in my test with Man City Kevin De Bruyne scored 44 goals and made 33 assistances at the end of the season, the MC position was among the highest scoring positions in the tactic.
So for the MC position you need a player who can score goals and make assistance.
I can confirm. central midfielder is the most important position in this formation.
Also gonna try it with blue 2.0 to see if it make any diff ?
@ZaZ Do you suggested to changed to cautious or Very Defensive ?
Cautious will reduce the amount of goals while giving you around the same chance of winning the match and saving a bit of energy. It's effective even if you are 0-0 or with a one goal lead, not bringing much risk of losing while resting your players. Very defensive, on the other hand, is better if just for a short time or if you have a massive lead, since you basically give up on scoring opportunities and might risk the result if the enemy manages to find a goal. However, it rests your players way better. You can always use both. Too bad you can only train 3 mentalities at once.
In the league, I won two matches, got a tie and a defeat. Currently I am in second place in the league and will face a team from one league above in next match of FA Cup, away from home. A victory would allow me to have a positive projection by the end of season, allowing me to hire five more players and have two players in each position. However, I won't count eggs before they hatch. In the meantime, I invited 30 players willing to transfer in a 4 weeks trial, to scout them.
Below is the match schedule with results and my finances. From 127k of projected loss, we are now at 16k of loss, which is pretty good.
I also picked the match against Gilligham as the highlight. It wasn't the most exciting match, but it was a psychological battle. Keep an eye at opponent's body language and watch them going nervous as time passes. They started with two nervous players in the first half, when I was using Light Blue 2.0 to frustrate them. By the second half, they had five nervous players, giving me an edge when I switched to Blue 2.0.
Now I have three more matches before FA Cup. Since the first match, we play twice a week, which is making this run into a battle to manage the condition of players.
Just go home, you are drunk.