DesoxyN said: Been following you in your tactic discussion threads for about a month now and gotta say your research is invaluable. Thank you for doing all this, keep up the good work! Expand
Thank you a lot!
Mark said: @ZaZ do you think you can do this through the season as well? Expand
Yes, you can. I tested it during two entire seasons with Manchester City and the entire team was delighted with playtime even in the lowest possible option above surplus to requirements (youngster for under 21 players, emergency backup for the rest). I didn't test with surplus to requirements, but it should probably work as well. I also tested without the exploit and the number of players asking to improve contract was barely the same.
I would recommend this exploit for anyone that don't like managing the happiness of players and just wants to focus on playing football.
P.S.: To make it faster, you can select a big group of players and change the playtime to surplus to requirements, then back to starplayer, then back to the lowest agreed playtime. You need to do it in four different groups, because they have different options: goalkeepers under 21, goalkeepers over 21, line players under 21 and goalkeepers over 21. I didn't test with players at loan.
This tactic is the predecessor of Red, using strikers instead of shadow strikers. However, Blue is better than Red. You would probably get better results getting Blue 2.2 and changing the SS to strikers. You can do the same to Phoenix or another top tactics and it will probably perform better than this one.
They probably won't. Or maybe they will. Not being tested doesn't mean it doesn't work well. Both Red and Blue took over a week to be tested (and less than one day later, someone else improved on their formula). I am still trying to get a bigger change to call it 3.0, but no luck yet.
crazyfmguy93 said: I see this on another website. I not the owner. But ca u test it? Looking for good tactic with strikers. Expand
Try getting one of the top tactics from here and moving one or two SS to striker position. It won't be as good as the original, but probably better than most other tactics with strikers.
ta2199 said: Also if you dont want DW you can try with WM role. It offer a lots of possibility with many available PIs Expand
By the way, I noticed that thing you talked earlier, of players with highest corner attribute taking corners instead of set position. I honestly don't know how to fix it, since I assumed setting a taker would kinda... set it.
Gpassosbh said: But having extra matches isn't worse than have a day off? Do you think its possible to have a one game week schedule? If yes, what you recomend for training? Expand
I play with 33 players, so each player only plays at most once a week. If you don't like to rotate players or play with a smaller squad, you can switch the match for a session of recovery (to prevent injuries), match practice (happiness and cohesion) and quickness training (important attributes).
JTC said: Mr ZaZ - I am writing to both congratulate you for the wonderful formation and to thank you for your effort in fine-tuning it. I just used your v2.2 for Man Utd against a human controlled Liverpool team (which dominated our game with Fati, Haaland and Salah scoring like fun) in season 3 and beat them 3-2 in Community Shield - my first silverware! Would have won 3-1 had I not had Skriniar sent off in 86 mins for bad tackle. Our defence is tight [despite all the "take more risks"] and the counter attack is just impossible to deal with even though we have such low possession %. [Btw I am playing against a Liverpool team using 4-1-2-1-2 wide diamond and which scores on average 120 goals per season.]
I have two questions for you.
First, do you think it is advisable to move the CM(a) to AM position and deploy him as AP(s) - in between the two SS - and move DLP(s) to CM and deploy him as either DLP or BWM? The reason is that whilst the CM(a) generally does very well (I have Kessie and B Fernandes rotating) the DLP(s) does not do so well and often has very low rating (even though I already have Camanviga). I wonder if that has to do with the DLP(s) not being required to do a lot in recycling possession because he is assisted by the two IWB in that area, and I think in FM players are largely rated by how "busy" they are in their positions. But my concern is that using AP(s) may slow down the pace because AP tends to hold up the ball and look for chances to create openings, and this goes against the directness in your formation.
Second, do you think it is possible to adapt your tactic into a possession-based one by lowering the tempo and using low block? Whilst I love the way the team plays and the directness, I always feel I am taking a risk against another direct-play team, or those weaker teams which park the bus.
Once again, many thanks for the great work. Much appreciated.
Btw, my current starting eleven are as follows: (don't know how to screencap)
Demir -- Greenwood
Lemar --- Kessie --- B Fernandes
Camanviga
Telles - Koulibaly - Skriniar - Kounde
De Gea
Kessie + Camanviga in the center is just wonderful because of their high work rate and tackling, suit the pressing style very much. B Fernandes on the right wing can fully utilize his creativity (he has good crossing too). Kounde retrained as R-IWB and I think it is a masterstroke because he has excellent heading and passing and very decent pace, whereas Wan Bissaka is more defensive and less creative. Expand
For the first question, I already tried that and it performs worse. Some people are having DM with low scores while others have DMs with the highest scores in the team. Despite the score being high or low, they are very important to make the other players perform well. It may not seem like it, but they usually have the highest number of passes in the game, meaning they are the main players to decide where the attack movements flow.
About the second question, I already tried to lower tempo and passing directness, but the results are also worse. It doesn't mean you can't do it, but it will have worse results.
For the players, I would advise you get the fastest players that you can. Pace and acceleration are the most important attributes, followed by agility and dribbling (not so important for central defenders). The rest is nice to have, but not as important. My current team has the lowest of all attributes in the league, but the highest of those four attributes, and will finish the season with almost 20 points more than the second place.
JTC said: I am in a game using Man Utd with friends and into 3rd season. Came 2nd in the first two seasons. Liverpool (playing 4-1-2-1-2 wide diamond) with Haaland, Fati, Salah and Odegaard upfront are scoring for fun. I started playing strikerless towards the end of season 2 and just managed to beat Liverpool 3-2 in community shield in season 3. Hurray. Seems that my friend still doesnt quite know how to deal with strikerless ...
Question for advice: I have 80m in my transfer pot and I would want to buy a SS (my current SS are Demir, Greenwood, Joao Pedro and Van De Beek which lack a bit of sharp edge). I have a choice of: (1) Dybala (2) Giovanni Reyna (3) Bellingham. Who should I snap up? The only slight complication is that the first two both asked for non-negotiable promises which I cannot quite fulfill (e.g. playing them as AP). Expand
With initial attributes, Dybala is better because he is faster. Hard to know how their attributes are after three seasons. Check this table to see which attributes are the most important: https://fm-arena.com/table/9-important-attributes/
In short, you want fast players, with high pace, acceleration, agility and dribbling.
Gpassosbh said: Hum.. Thanks for the tips. One last question.. When you have 1 game week or 2 games week, what changes you do in training? Can you share your trainings for one game week and two games week?? Expand
If I have one match in the week, I propose a friendly so it becomes two matches. I also delegate friendly matches to the assistant manager so it goes faster, then it usually uses the players I set before the match starts.
Gpassosbh said: Using this, you think you can have good young player development? Expand
Yes, especially if they get some play time. My strategy is to have 33 players and rotate them like below. Team A: 1-11, with 23-28 reserves. Team B: 12-22, with 28-33. Player 28 is third goalkeeper, so he is reserve for both teams. To make sure each reserve can substitute two players, I make sure to train WBI as DW (and vice-versa) and DLP as CM (and vice-versa). If someone from any team gets injuried, I substitute with the reserve from same team. I also always make 3 substitutions in every match, being at least 2 by 45 min. That way, I make sure everyone gets play time, so everyone develops better.
If I ever need to change order so team A plays an important match, then I play one match with team C, which is both reserves combined. That is enough to make team A switch from wednesdays to saturdays.
P.S.: This strategy considers two matches a week, including friendlies.
crazyfmguy93 said: Is there anybody use Genie Scout with Phoenix, Zaz, Afterlife?
How do you use it? Do you have filters?
And which one is important? Positional ratings or current abiilty or role ratings?
I use tactic in lower leagues Genie Scout shows older player's positional ratings so high. But they are old and they have very bad phsical attributes. So they perform badly. Should I use current ability for lower leagues when I search for a player? Expand
Get fast players and ignore the other attributes. Pace, Acceleration, Agility and Dribbling are overpowered this patch.
Gpassosbh said: You just use one schedule during whole season? Expand
One for Pre-Season and another for In-Season (during matches). My schedule is focused in giving the most important attributes (speed) and increasing my chances of winning in the current season, by increasing happiness, reducing injuries and giving bonus for the next match. There are probably better schedules for gaining attributes, but this one makes my players grow well enough.
That's funny, because I can swear the way matches unfold changed a lot. I mean, there are way more crosses now and less through passes. Maybe it's just a cognitive bias.
P.S.: Maybe it's just because I started using very fast players (thanks to the attribute table), so they have an easier time reaching crossing position.
Django said: @ZaZ I have been using the Blue2 tactic for about 2 months and I can say very clearly that it is the best tactic I have tried. I came out of the lower leagues with Hull and joined the champions league as the third in the Premier League in the first season. After the last match engine change, I started using Blue 2.2 as you suggested, but the results started to go bad and I can't fix what I do Is it a reality of the game to not be able to stop it when it starts to go bad sometimes and should I continue to use 2.2 in the same way? As a result, I strengthened my squad as required by the positions and great work has happened every season. However, after the last update, nothing is as before. Do you have any advice? So when things start to go wrong, is there anything you say "do this" in particular? I warn the players for poor performance, I hold a team meeting, etc. (I also started to use the Zaz training.I was having my assistant do it before. I wonder if this might have affected it too) I would be glad if you could give an idea.
Finally, I thank you for your support of FM players. Expand
You don't need to thank me. I also use the tactic, so in fact, you are the ones helping me by testing it. Anyway, Blue 2.2 is better than 2.0, and slightly better than 2.1. The difference in points is not so big, just 1 or 2 more points per season, but it's more solid and ends the season with a better goal difference. Bad streaks can and will happen with any tactic, because the engine is designed to make things run out of control. The less morale, the higher chance to lose, and when you lose, you lower the morale. I am also quite sure there is a hidden attribute for complacency that increases when you win matches in a row or when you face weaker teams, so you need to always keep your player with high morale and make sure they don't get complacent. My advice is like this:
Shouts - When not winning, encourage. When winning, praise after goals. When winning by a lot, ask to calm down to receive less yellow cards.
Team Talk - At start, try to motivate or relieve pressure on players. If no effect, tell defenders and midfielders that you have faith on them (this always works). - At half time, if not winning (or winning by one goal against weak team), tell them you are not happy with the performance. If winning, tell the team you are happy. - At full time, if not winning by more than one goal, tell them you are not happy. If winning by two goals, tell them it was a good result. If winning by three or more, tell them to not get complacent. You can be more harsh at home or against weak teams, and more kind away from home or against stronger teams. That means sometimes complimenting for a tie against a way stronger team, for example.
Out of match praising - Praise players with 9.0+ points in the last match. - Praise players with form 7.5+ in the last 5 matches. - Praise players with 9.0+ in training. - Warn players with 6.0- in training, last match or form in last 5 matches. The numbers are a bit more flexible, but I do that way so I don't need to praise everyone all the time. Also, players complain if you praise too often, specially for training.
Also, remember that training can help a lot with happiness. For example, you should always have two match practices and one team bonding per week, since those increase happiness by a lot.
Anyway, sometimes there isn't much what to do. Players have some hidden attributes that can make them perform badly in important matches, or under pressure, or get more red cards. If you see a player that is never in good form, get rid of him, even if he plays like Messi. It doesn't matter how good the player is if he makes you lose too often.
To finish this big list of things that can cause a team to play badly, there is also the problem of lack of confidence. In FM, it's not uncommon to have strikers five or ten matches in a row without scoring, shooting like toddlers. When both strikers get in a bad streak at once, all you can do is pray for them to score and end their goal drough.
P.S.: My worst sequence of matches with this tactic, playing with the weakest team, was five matches without a victory, which happened only once in five years. The normal is to get streaks of ten or more matches without losing.
EPT93 said: Yeah I get that, is just rotation or is the training schedules? Dunno if its the tight marking thats killing the players. Pre update my adjusted Guido strikerless was unreal Expand
Training schedules make a big difference, yes. If you put very hard trainings every day and don't rotate the team, you are bound to have lots of injuries and not recover players very well between matches. I usually have recovery sessions (green ones that reduce injury risk) at least once every two days. If you have a sport scientist and check the medical centre, you will see stats like match load, training load and fatigue, which affect the risk of injuries. Attributes like stamina and natural fitness also make your players less tired and recover faster, which reduce the number of injuries during the season. In the worst case, you can always right click a player and select Training -> Rest -> 1 or 2 days, to help players with bad stamina recover in time for some important match.
If your only worry is about condition, and not injuries, then I advise you to use Light Blue 2.2 when your are winning by 2+ goals of difference, since it reduces the load on the players. Phoenix also have a similar variant (even better for condition).
EPT93 said: How does it perform in terms of player energy during games? Struggling to find a tactic that doesn't kill my players. Expand
This is a high intensity tactic and it will kill your players if you don't manage their condition level. I would recommend a squad of at least 22 players, where the reserves are trained to supply for two players in the main team.
In my Lemington run (worst team in england), I started with 16 players, then increased to 22 in the second year, 28 in the third and 33 players in the fourth year, which is the size of squad I like to manage. I was the champion in every single year and even got the FA Trophy in the way, which means it's not impossible to manage it with a small squad.
Unfortunately, you won't find a tactic from the top 10 or 20 that is easy on player's condition. The "lightest" one is probably from @Egraam, which is very good and would allow you to win everything, but you will still need to manage players when you have more than one match in the same week.
Thank you for testing! I am still trying to improve the tactic, but I got stuck in 2.2 for now. I tried several adjustments, but none worked so far. I also tried some versions with very attacking mentality, but I couldn't get anything better than just setting 2.2 to very attacking. I hope I can find something good soon.
In short, Pace and Acceleration are god, then Agility and Dribbling comes next.
Sort by age and use filters, then use the mouse to select the players.
Keep going!
Thank you a lot!
Mark said: @ZaZ do you think you can do this through the season as well?
Yes, you can. I tested it during two entire seasons with Manchester City and the entire team was delighted with playtime even in the lowest possible option above surplus to requirements (youngster for under 21 players, emergency backup for the rest). I didn't test with surplus to requirements, but it should probably work as well. I also tested without the exploit and the number of players asking to improve contract was barely the same.
I would recommend this exploit for anyone that don't like managing the happiness of players and just wants to focus on playing football.
P.S.: To make it faster, you can select a big group of players and change the playtime to surplus to requirements, then back to starplayer, then back to the lowest agreed playtime. You need to do it in four different groups, because they have different options: goalkeepers under 21, goalkeepers over 21, line players under 21 and goalkeepers over 21. I didn't test with players at loan.
They probably won't. Or maybe they will. Not being tested doesn't mean it doesn't work well. Both Red and Blue took over a week to be tested (and less than one day later, someone else improved on their formula). I am still trying to get a bigger change to call it 3.0, but no luck yet.
Try getting one of the top tactics from here and moving one or two SS to striker position. It won't be as good as the original, but probably better than most other tactics with strikers.
By the way, I noticed that thing you talked earlier, of players with highest corner attribute taking corners instead of set position. I honestly don't know how to fix it, since I assumed setting a taker would kinda... set it.
Do you think its possible to have a one game week schedule? If yes, what you recomend for training?
I play with 33 players, so each player only plays at most once a week. If you don't like to rotate players or play with a smaller squad, you can switch the match for a session of recovery (to prevent injuries), match practice (happiness and cohesion) and quickness training (important attributes).
I have two questions for you.
First, do you think it is advisable to move the CM(a) to AM position and deploy him as AP(s) - in between the two SS - and move DLP(s) to CM and deploy him as either DLP or BWM? The reason is that whilst the CM(a) generally does very well (I have Kessie and B Fernandes rotating) the DLP(s) does not do so well and often has very low rating (even though I already have Camanviga). I wonder if that has to do with the DLP(s) not being required to do a lot in recycling possession because he is assisted by the two IWB in that area, and I think in FM players are largely rated by how "busy" they are in their positions. But my concern is that using AP(s) may slow down the pace because AP tends to hold up the ball and look for chances to create openings, and this goes against the directness in your formation.
Second, do you think it is possible to adapt your tactic into a possession-based one by lowering the tempo and using low block? Whilst I love the way the team plays and the directness, I always feel I am taking a risk against another direct-play team, or those weaker teams which park the bus.
Once again, many thanks for the great work. Much appreciated.
Btw, my current starting eleven are as follows: (don't know how to screencap)
Demir -- Greenwood
Lemar --- Kessie --- B Fernandes
Camanviga
Telles - Koulibaly - Skriniar - Kounde
De Gea
Kessie + Camanviga in the center is just wonderful because of their high work rate and tackling, suit the pressing style very much. B Fernandes on the right wing can fully utilize his creativity (he has good crossing too). Kounde retrained as R-IWB and I think it is a masterstroke because he has excellent heading and passing and very decent pace, whereas Wan Bissaka is more defensive and less creative.
For the first question, I already tried that and it performs worse. Some people are having DM with low scores while others have DMs with the highest scores in the team. Despite the score being high or low, they are very important to make the other players perform well. It may not seem like it, but they usually have the highest number of passes in the game, meaning they are the main players to decide where the attack movements flow.
About the second question, I already tried to lower tempo and passing directness, but the results are also worse. It doesn't mean you can't do it, but it will have worse results.
For the players, I would advise you get the fastest players that you can. Pace and acceleration are the most important attributes, followed by agility and dribbling (not so important for central defenders). The rest is nice to have, but not as important. My current team has the lowest of all attributes in the league, but the highest of those four attributes, and will finish the season with almost 20 points more than the second place.
Question for advice: I have 80m in my transfer pot and I would want to buy a SS (my current SS are Demir, Greenwood, Joao Pedro and Van De Beek which lack a bit of sharp edge). I have a choice of: (1) Dybala (2) Giovanni Reyna (3) Bellingham. Who should I snap up? The only slight complication is that the first two both asked for non-negotiable promises which I cannot quite fulfill (e.g. playing them as AP).
With initial attributes, Dybala is better because he is faster. Hard to know how their attributes are after three seasons. Check this table to see which attributes are the most important: https://fm-arena.com/table/9-important-attributes/
In short, you want fast players, with high pace, acceleration, agility and dribbling.
One last question.. When you have 1 game week or 2 games week, what changes you do in training? Can you share your trainings for one game week and two games week??
If I have one match in the week, I propose a friendly so it becomes two matches. I also delegate friendly matches to the assistant manager so it goes faster, then it usually uses the players I set before the match starts.
Yes, especially if they get some play time. My strategy is to have 33 players and rotate them like below.
Team A: 1-11, with 23-28 reserves.
Team B: 12-22, with 28-33.
Player 28 is third goalkeeper, so he is reserve for both teams. To make sure each reserve can substitute two players, I make sure to train WBI as DW (and vice-versa) and DLP as CM (and vice-versa). If someone from any team gets injuried, I substitute with the reserve from same team. I also always make 3 substitutions in every match, being at least 2 by 45 min. That way, I make sure everyone gets play time, so everyone develops better.
If I ever need to change order so team A plays an important match, then I play one match with team C, which is both reserves combined. That is enough to make team A switch from wednesdays to saturdays.
P.S.: This strategy considers two matches a week, including friendlies.
How do you use it? Do you have filters?
And which one is important? Positional ratings or current abiilty or role ratings?
I use tactic in lower leagues Genie Scout shows older player's positional ratings so high. But they are old and they have very bad phsical attributes. So they perform badly. Should I use current ability for lower leagues when I search for a player?
Get fast players and ignore the other attributes. Pace, Acceleration, Agility and Dribbling are overpowered this patch.
One for Pre-Season and another for In-Season (during matches). My schedule is focused in giving the most important attributes (speed) and increasing my chances of winning in the current season, by increasing happiness, reducing injuries and giving bonus for the next match. There are probably better schedules for gaining attributes, but this one makes my players grow well enough.
P.S.: Maybe it's just because I started using very fast players (thanks to the attribute table), so they have an easier time reaching crossing position.
Finally, I thank you for your support of FM players.
You don't need to thank me. I also use the tactic, so in fact, you are the ones helping me by testing it. Anyway, Blue 2.2 is better than 2.0, and slightly better than 2.1. The difference in points is not so big, just 1 or 2 more points per season, but it's more solid and ends the season with a better goal difference. Bad streaks can and will happen with any tactic, because the engine is designed to make things run out of control. The less morale, the higher chance to lose, and when you lose, you lower the morale. I am also quite sure there is a hidden attribute for complacency that increases when you win matches in a row or when you face weaker teams, so you need to always keep your player with high morale and make sure they don't get complacent. My advice is like this:
Shouts
- When not winning, encourage. When winning, praise after goals. When winning by a lot, ask to calm down to receive less yellow cards.
Team Talk
- At start, try to motivate or relieve pressure on players. If no effect, tell defenders and midfielders that you have faith on them (this always works).
- At half time, if not winning (or winning by one goal against weak team), tell them you are not happy with the performance. If winning, tell the team you are happy.
- At full time, if not winning by more than one goal, tell them you are not happy. If winning by two goals, tell them it was a good result. If winning by three or more, tell them to not get complacent. You can be more harsh at home or against weak teams, and more kind away from home or against stronger teams. That means sometimes complimenting for a tie against a way stronger team, for example.
Out of match praising
- Praise players with 9.0+ points in the last match.
- Praise players with form 7.5+ in the last 5 matches.
- Praise players with 9.0+ in training.
- Warn players with 6.0- in training, last match or form in last 5 matches.
The numbers are a bit more flexible, but I do that way so I don't need to praise everyone all the time. Also, players complain if you praise too often, specially for training.
Also, remember that training can help a lot with happiness. For example, you should always have two match practices and one team bonding per week, since those increase happiness by a lot.
Anyway, sometimes there isn't much what to do. Players have some hidden attributes that can make them perform badly in important matches, or under pressure, or get more red cards. If you see a player that is never in good form, get rid of him, even if he plays like Messi. It doesn't matter how good the player is if he makes you lose too often.
To finish this big list of things that can cause a team to play badly, there is also the problem of lack of confidence. In FM, it's not uncommon to have strikers five or ten matches in a row without scoring, shooting like toddlers. When both strikers get in a bad streak at once, all you can do is pray for them to score and end their goal drough.
P.S.: My worst sequence of matches with this tactic, playing with the weakest team, was five matches without a victory, which happened only once in five years. The normal is to get streaks of ten or more matches without losing.
EPT93 said: Yeah I get that, is just rotation or is the training schedules? Dunno if its the tight marking thats killing the players. Pre update my adjusted Guido strikerless was unreal
Training schedules make a big difference, yes. If you put very hard trainings every day and don't rotate the team, you are bound to have lots of injuries and not recover players very well between matches. I usually have recovery sessions (green ones that reduce injury risk) at least once every two days. If you have a sport scientist and check the medical centre, you will see stats like match load, training load and fatigue, which affect the risk of injuries. Attributes like stamina and natural fitness also make your players less tired and recover faster, which reduce the number of injuries during the season. In the worst case, you can always right click a player and select Training -> Rest -> 1 or 2 days, to help players with bad stamina recover in time for some important match.
If your only worry is about condition, and not injuries, then I advise you to use Light Blue 2.2 when your are winning by 2+ goals of difference, since it reduces the load on the players. Phoenix also have a similar variant (even better for condition).
This is a high intensity tactic and it will kill your players if you don't manage their condition level. I would recommend a squad of at least 22 players, where the reserves are trained to supply for two players in the main team.
In my Lemington run (worst team in england), I started with 16 players, then increased to 22 in the second year, 28 in the third and 33 players in the fourth year, which is the size of squad I like to manage. I was the champion in every single year and even got the FA Trophy in the way, which means it's not impossible to manage it with a small squad.
Unfortunately, you won't find a tactic from the top 10 or 20 that is easy on player's condition. The "lightest" one is probably from @Egraam, which is very good and would allow you to win everything, but you will still need to manage players when you have more than one match in the same week.