Big improvement to Red with the suggestion by @healmuth. That means midfielder changed from CM to AP and defensive midfielder changed from DLP to DM.
P.S.: Did one more run to get the stats the guy asked below.
Since it was a holiday test, I asked the assistant manager to pick the best XI after the season to show where he used each player. It's basically 60% of goals from shadow strikers, 30% divided equally between wingers and advanced playmaker and 10% to the rest. Assists come from everywhere.
I've noticed that too. My Green strategy is using an AP attack instead of CM and it's scoring more goals. I am testing with DM defend, though. I am currently checking if I can tweak the pass directness and tempo, but just changing the CM for AP is what caused the best improvement.
P.S.: Just tested on Red, APDM the way you suggested is better. Thanks for the tip.
Hey ZaZ can download it here. But i think the filters need fixing to freeze verything in FMRTE. Seems like iot only freezes players for the CA140 team Expand
Where should I throw that Frozen Players directory? I don't get how to freeze the players.
Thank you for the tests! Funny that now my tactic did more goals and took less. I think the difference in results is just statistical variation, with maybe a slight advantage to Phoenix. It would be interesting to make 5 tests of each then compare the median of each team. Median is the one that ranks in the middle, or the 3rd more points of 5 runs, and it's a better measurements for this kind of thing in the field of statistics.
P.S.: To be more clear what statistical variance is, you can just check the difference in points from the same team in both tests, like Manchester City (7 points) or Liverpool (9 pts). They got such a difference using the same strategy, so a difference of only 4 points between Red and Phoenix might not be significant. However, if the median of several runs from Phoenix or Red is better than the other, then you can start to see which one is better. Another approach is to run 5 times each, then rank the runs by points. The one with the highest sum of rank has a higher probability to perform worse. If you can do the runs, I do the statistical analysis, but I understand if you don't have the time to do so.
P.S.2: Don't need to stress much about comparing those two unless you really want to find out which is better. They are too similar, that's why both got 6.9. Eventually a 7.0+ will show up. I will soon post my ZaZ - Green, a variation of Red that is showing lots of promise.
healmuth said: Good results, tactic seems to be a bit more suited for more advanced teams and the defense seems slightly worse in comparison to Phoenix Expand
Thanks for testing. I usually play with weak teams from lower divisions, so the results don't reflect what you could get from teams like Liverpool or Real Madrid. Holiday tests are also a bit deceiving, so it's nice to have other people try it or test it here.
This also gives me a hint that Red is better overall, so I can focus on trying to optimize that tactic instead.
Egraam said: You're right very attacking produces really inconsistent results, I have one more tactic coming that I have ready and also produced amazing results with Liverpool, it's with attacking mentality and should be much better. Expand
It's good that you bring new stuff to the table. If not for Doom, people would still be stuck on the ~6.3 score for using normal forwards. Thinking out of the box will suck 99% of the time, but that 1% is just the breakthrough we need to evolve.
healmuth said: This looks very promising and very good. - All players frozen - CA140 set to 140 capability, 165 set to 165 - All Match Prep set to 100 - Knaps corner instructions from Dukes 443 V4 applied Expand
Where can I get that test league? I have seem some people using it before.
The advantage of this tactic might as well be just a statistical deviation, as the difference is not very significant. They are too similar. That being said, this tactic is probably better because it puts less physical strain on your players.
I am currently investigating if the winger role or the instructions to run at defense and get stuck in are making any difference at all. If not, I suppose it's better to keep the simplest solution.
ta2199 said: Congrats. Only few points differents on the table Expand
Thank you! It wouldn't last much, though. The tactics are always improving since people get inspiration on better tactics. For example, my tactics improved because of Doom with the shadow strikers thing. Soon someone will discover a new catch and get >7.0 score.
That's ZaZ - Red, but with wingers instead of defensive wingers. Good to know it also performed well in other leagues.
P.S.: It just got tested and the results are nearly identical. I wonder how ZaZ - Blue will compare, since it apparently gives me better results, or very similar.
TopHill said: I dont get the hype around this tac, not working for me. Expand
I understand what you mean. It performs really bad in holiday tests, but I suppose it shines once you have high tactical familiarity. In my experience, I am getting better results with my own tactic, but I adapted it to have shadow strikers too. Playing without strikers is the real deal this patch.
Not sure if just me, but positive mentality seems to work better than attacking right now. Strikerless is definitely a thing too, which make me wonder if offside trap is just not good in this patch, with more goals happening on through balls.
Basically ZaZ 2.0 with Shadow Strikers instead of Pressing Forwards. It looks better, which makes me think SS are performing better than forwards in this patch.
Holiday 1-20th test in Premier League:
P.S.: Red 2.0 is a version that tries to give some identity to Red. Before, Red and Blue were too similar, changing just the attack mentality and passing directness. In practice, they both played the same way, with through passes to the center. Now, Red 2.0 plays more by the flanks, making it behave completely different from Blue.
Results from 2.0 with Fulham and Manchester City in holiday mode.
This tactic is all about having high intensity to attack and defend, building up the game with short but vertical passes. It's ideal for a team with high determination and natural fitness.
P.S.: Covered part is "Slightly Shorter Passing". I only noticed later.
The formation is 4-4-2 to ensure balance, with 2 players in each section of the field (center defense, center midfield, center attack and both wings). This is important in leagues with low budget or only 5 players on the bench, as you can train players to be effective in both positions from their sector and keep a smaller squad.
The mentality is attacking to ensure your players are committed to vertical soccer. When in possession, they are instructed to play out of defense and work ball into box, passing the ball shorter to keep possession, playing at extremely high tempo to unsettle the opposition and running at defense to progress through dribbling when possible.
The transition is your typical gegenpress, fighting back as soon as possession is lost and immediately looking for counter-attack.
When out of possession, the players will press as early as possible, with extreme urgency. They are instructed to get stuck in and play offside, as well as preventing short goal keeper passes.
All players have personal instructions to pass it shorter (to keep possession), take more risks (to make the game more vertical), get further forward and dribble more (to gain ground), shoot less often (to work ball into box), tackle harder (to fight with everything for the ball). Defensive wingers are set to cross from byline and center midfielder is set to move into channels, to increase penetration.
Roles are: SK - Defend: Picks up balls in front of penalty area. He is the only player instructed to take less risks, to make sure your team plays out of defense. Ideal profile: Alisson BPD - Defend: Defend and initiates counter attacks through short and fast passes. Ideal profile: Virgil Van Dijk IWB - Support: Protect the flanks when defending and become a center midfielder when attacking, providing numerical advantage for the short passing game. Ideal profile: Trent Alexander-Arnold DLP - Support: Covers the flanks during attack and uses his vision to decide where the game should flow. Ideal profile: Jordan Henderson CM - Attack: Protects the midfield and surges into the box when the opportunity arises. Ideal profile: Kevin De Bruyne DW - Support: Protect the flanks and provide crosses from the byline. Ideal profile: Trent Alexander-Arnold PF - Attack: Put pressure on defenders so they cannot play out of defense and score most goals in the team. Ideal profile: Roberto Firmino
There are no opposition instructions and no set piece takers.
This tactic is well suited to any kind of team, of any division and any budget. It was tested twice in the Premier League, using the first and last media predicted teams and going in holiday as soon as the tactic is set, without any other sort of interaction. Not only the first team won both times, but the last team also figured around the top. Both teams had most goals in the championship, with first team having fewest shots against and fewest goals conceded, while second team had the most tackles won.
Here are some screenshots of scorers, assists and overall performance.
P.S.: Did one more run to get the stats the guy asked below.
Since it was a holiday test, I asked the assistant manager to pick the best XI after the season to show where he used each player. It's basically 60% of goals from shadow strikers, 30% divided equally between wingers and advanced playmaker and 10% to the rest. Assists come from everywhere.
P.S.: Just tested on Red, APDM the way you suggested is better. Thanks for the tip.
Hey ZaZ can download it here. But i think the filters need fixing to freeze verything in FMRTE. Seems like iot only freezes players for the CA140 team
Where should I throw that Frozen Players directory? I don't get how to freeze the players.
P.S.: To be more clear what statistical variance is, you can just check the difference in points from the same team in both tests, like Manchester City (7 points) or Liverpool (9 pts). They got such a difference using the same strategy, so a difference of only 4 points between Red and Phoenix might not be significant. However, if the median of several runs from Phoenix or Red is better than the other, then you can start to see which one is better. Another approach is to run 5 times each, then rank the runs by points. The one with the highest sum of rank has a higher probability to perform worse. If you can do the runs, I do the statistical analysis, but I understand if you don't have the time to do so.
P.S.2: Don't need to stress much about comparing those two unless you really want to find out which is better. They are too similar, that's why both got 6.9. Eventually a 7.0+ will show up. I will soon post my ZaZ - Green, a variation of Red that is showing lots of promise.
Thanks for testing. I usually play with weak teams from lower divisions, so the results don't reflect what you could get from teams like Liverpool or Real Madrid. Holiday tests are also a bit deceiving, so it's nice to have other people try it or test it here.
This also gives me a hint that Red is better overall, so I can focus on trying to optimize that tactic instead.
It's good that you bring new stuff to the table. If not for Doom, people would still be stuck on the ~6.3 score for using normal forwards. Thinking out of the box will suck 99% of the time, but that 1% is just the breakthrough we need to evolve.
What is the most important attribute of the SS?
I have yet to see a good tactic with inverted winger in FM21. They seem to suck right now.
- All players frozen
- CA140 set to 140 capability, 165 set to 165
- All Match Prep set to 100
- Knaps corner instructions from Dukes 443 V4 applied
Where can I get that test league? I have seem some people using it before.
I am currently investigating if the winger role or the instructions to run at defense and get stuck in are making any difference at all. If not, I suppose it's better to keep the simplest solution.
Thank you! It wouldn't last much, though. The tactics are always improving since people get inspiration on better tactics. For example, my tactics improved because of Doom with the shadow strikers thing. Soon someone will discover a new catch and get >7.0 score.
P.S.: It just got tested and the results are nearly identical. I wonder how ZaZ - Blue will compare, since it apparently gives me better results, or very similar.
I understand what you mean. It performs really bad in holiday tests, but I suppose it shines once you have high tactical familiarity. In my experience, I am getting better results with my own tactic, but I adapted it to have shadow strikers too. Playing without strikers is the real deal this patch.
Blue 1.0 tactic and results are shown below.
Holiday 1-20th tested on Premier League:
Blue 2.0 changes:
- Tempo set to "Extremely High"
- Removed "Get Stuck In"
- Removed "Run At Defense"
- Added "Roll It Out"
The description and results of Blue 2.0 are available at:
https://fm-arena.com/thread/884-zaz-blue-2-0/
Leave a comment below if you liked the tactic and make sure to share your results. Enjoy!
Holiday 1-20th test in Premier League:
P.S.: Red 2.0 is a version that tries to give some identity to Red. Before, Red and Blue were too similar, changing just the attack mentality and passing directness. In practice, they both played the same way, with through passes to the center. Now, Red 2.0 plays more by the flanks, making it behave completely different from Blue.
Results from 2.0 with Fulham and Manchester City in holiday mode.
Enjoy and let me know how it performed for you!
Keep me in touch about results, please.
As long as they are not slugs, you will do fine.
@Zippo, there is no need to test my other tactics again as they just got worse in the new match engine. Give priority to this one.
P.S.: Covered part is "Slightly Shorter Passing". I only noticed later.
The formation is 4-4-2 to ensure balance, with 2 players in each section of the field (center defense, center midfield, center attack and both wings). This is important in leagues with low budget or only 5 players on the bench, as you can train players to be effective in both positions from their sector and keep a smaller squad.
The mentality is attacking to ensure your players are committed to vertical soccer. When in possession, they are instructed to play out of defense and work ball into box, passing the ball shorter to keep possession, playing at extremely high tempo to unsettle the opposition and running at defense to progress through dribbling when possible.
The transition is your typical gegenpress, fighting back as soon as possession is lost and immediately looking for counter-attack.
When out of possession, the players will press as early as possible, with extreme urgency. They are instructed to get stuck in and play offside, as well as preventing short goal keeper passes.
All players have personal instructions to pass it shorter (to keep possession), take more risks (to make the game more vertical), get further forward and dribble more (to gain ground), shoot less often (to work ball into box), tackle harder (to fight with everything for the ball). Defensive wingers are set to cross from byline and center midfielder is set to move into channels, to increase penetration.
Roles are:
SK - Defend: Picks up balls in front of penalty area. He is the only player instructed to take less risks, to make sure your team plays out of defense. Ideal profile: Alisson
BPD - Defend: Defend and initiates counter attacks through short and fast passes. Ideal profile: Virgil Van Dijk
IWB - Support: Protect the flanks when defending and become a center midfielder when attacking, providing numerical advantage for the short passing game. Ideal profile: Trent Alexander-Arnold
DLP - Support: Covers the flanks during attack and uses his vision to decide where the game should flow. Ideal profile: Jordan Henderson
CM - Attack: Protects the midfield and surges into the box when the opportunity arises. Ideal profile: Kevin De Bruyne
DW - Support: Protect the flanks and provide crosses from the byline. Ideal profile: Trent Alexander-Arnold
PF - Attack: Put pressure on defenders so they cannot play out of defense and score most goals in the team. Ideal profile: Roberto Firmino
There are no opposition instructions and no set piece takers.
This tactic is well suited to any kind of team, of any division and any budget. It was tested twice in the Premier League, using the first and last media predicted teams and going in holiday as soon as the tactic is set, without any other sort of interaction. Not only the first team won both times, but the last team also figured around the top. Both teams had most goals in the championship, with first team having fewest shots against and fewest goals conceded, while second team had the most tackles won.
Here are some screenshots of scorers, assists and overall performance.
Let me know how the tactic worked for you. Enjoy!