Can someone tell me a bit more about inverted wing back ? I don't know what kind of players i should look for..
Btw, I look forward testing it with small teams so no top players.
Cheers Expand
IWB are wingers that cut inside and become midfielders when you have the ball. They make your team have more options for short passing in the middle, while keeping your flank protected.
For stats, the most important are Acceleration, Pace and Agility. Other than that, they don't need much crossing since they rarely cross the ball anyway. In other words, look for the stats of a DM or CM, but with high speed attributes.
Haven't played much because of work, but here is some updates. Played eight more matches, being five for Vanarama North, two for FA Trophy and one for FA Cup against Liverpool. Got raped twice, against Liverpool and another team from Vanarama North, one tie and five victories. Unfortunately, there was no TV for the match against Liverpool, so I didn't get rich. However, I am still alive in the Trophy and one victory behind the leader in the League, with one less match. My projected balance for next year is almost 68k, so I will soon start to invest this money in the team. I definitely need to replace Nestor Shako, since he is clearly performing worse than other teammates, probably because he is a slow winger.
Grimlock said: An attribute with a value of 6 or less has a weight of 0, therefore a player with 6 in all attributes will have CA 0
SI never gives any "official numbers" on that subject but you can get a clue about the numbers by changing the values in the pre-game editor or in the in-game editor.
If the numbers in the table is CA cost of the attributes then it's incorrect but if it's something different then I don't know. Expand
In this version, it started including the weights of each attribute in the pre-game editor. You can check.
P.S.: Weight is usually a multiplicative factor to a function. It doesn't mean that decisions is worth 10 times more than vision for a defender. For example, the formula could be something like CA_cost = (10 * weight + 100) / 10. That means 10 points in decision would cost 20 CA, while 10 points in vision would cost 11 CA. This is just an example and has nothing to do with the real formula.
For example, it stays that 1 point of Acceleration and Pace cost 10CA for AMLR positions but that's not true.
Also, it stays that 1 point of Decisions costs 10CA for CD position but that's not true too. Expand
That's the weight, not the cost in CA. The cost in CA has a formula that uses those weights. For example, some players have 0 CA even with lots of fives and sixes. That means it only starts counting after some minimum. I don't know the formula exactly, so I appreciate if someone can share it.
Rince said: I'm sure the minimal height for a central defender should be no less than 180cm and Jumping Reach should be no less than "11" because anything less than that would be too extreme.
I just don't get what is the point in going for the extreme values if there are a ton of fast central defenders who are taller than 180cm and having Jumping Reach higher than 11? Expand
Some players from other positions might have cheaper weights for important attributes and have good values where it matters, being a good idea to retrain them, even if they are short.
Ok, back to Leamington run, worst team in England. Other than what I said in last post, I played for FA Trophy and FA Cup. For FA Trophy, I was quite confident for playing home against a team of similar size. I decided to play with fully rotated team, to rest players for FA Cup and build some happiness with playing time. It almost bit me in the ass since I only managed to win in extra time. It would be pretty embarrassing to leave the Trophy in first match, but FA Cup can bring my finances to another level if I win and face Liverpool.
For FA Cup, I forgot I had three suspended players. It was a very stupid mistake that I do quite often, making me have to play with some tired players and even a gray autogen. Since the team was one division above, I played with Light Blue 2.0 in the first half, to build stress in the opponent, then switched to Blue 2.0 in second half. The match was full of missed opportunities for both sides, ending 0-0, going past extra time and going for penalties. My goalkeeper grabbed one of the kicks and now I am rich. Here are the results.
This is my team and the most important attributes of each player. As you can see, not so bad looking only at those stats, but they are full of sixes, sevens and eights in the other stats. The finances are also there, going from a negative projection to 48k positive, and I will still have the TV revenue from the match against Liverpool (which I will certainly lose). With that, I guess I can get a scout or two and start playing around.
Again, this is the screen that says "you are out of the competition", when I got drawn against Liverpool. Well, I was expecting to fall two matches ago, so can't be so picky.
By the way, I stopped recording videos, as it's annoying to upload them every time and provide a description. This will allow me to progress faster.
Congratulations to Palmeiras for painting America green. I will make a tactic later just to honor them, one of the biggest teams of the world, together with Santos, Boca and River. (I'm from Sweden, just to be clear.)
P.S.: I hired a new striker from Australia, since the one in loan got injured for three months (this time I checked that he had irish nationality, so I don't pay 22k for work permit).
I played a couple of matches but didn't upload images or videos to post here yet. I hired 6 morre players so my squad has 23 players, including three goalkeepers. In the matches, I won three three matches and lost one. For my bad luck, I lost because I was resting players for FA Cup, since I need the money. Then, the match was postponed because of rain. Had I played with best squad, I would have climbed to first place in the table.
Other than that, two negative things happened. First, I was hiring a player and didn't know the price for his passport (from Australia) would cost 22k euros. When I saw that, I panicked and tried to cancel the deal, but the price for the passport was already paid. Ended up without the player or the passport, and a debt of 22k. Now my projected loss by the end of season is almost 40k euros.
The other negative thing is that I drew Liverpool in FA Cup in case I win the postponed match, against a team one league above. That's impossible to win, but if I get there, the TV revenue should definitely save my team for the next two or three seasons.
Anyway, gonna play the next couple of matches, for FA Trophy and FA Cup, then I post some results, as well as a picture of my squad attributes.
Zippo said: We might test that at some point but honestly, I don't consider that as the main priority because "Jumping Reach" attribute has been tested already and it has more impact than height when it comes air challenging for the ball. Expand
Fair enough. I just wanted to know because I have rejected several good players, specially defenders, because they are too short. For example, I usually don't hire a DC shorter than 180 cm. Knowing it's not an issue would also allow me to retrain some DLR or DM into DC.
At least now we have something to work on. DC and GK are harder to measure. For the other positions, focusing in the 4 best attributes of the tests will be effective. Checking the table, I imagine Dribbling isn't as important for defenders, since it didn't increase GA. The ones that did increase the most, other than Acceleration and Pace, are Jumping Reach, Balance and Anticipation. I will use those 5 to guide my search for defenders. For goalkeepers, I don't think those tests are so relevant.
Bogeyman said: I think for Central Defenders Jumping Reach, Positioning and Anticipating are more important than Dribbling and Vision. Expand
Maybe you are right for vision. However, I think Dribbling is still important, since removing dribble more from defenders (changing to CD) make them perform worse.
P.S.: To be honest, ignoring tiers B and down would be ok, since the difference is only big enough for tier A and S attributes. You can use low tiers for tiebreaking.
I suppose we can now separate attributes in tiers of importance: Tier S: Acceleration and Pace Tier A: Agility and Dribbling Tier B: Balance and Vision Tier C: Anticipation, Jumping Reach, Decisions, Positioning and Passing Tier F: All others
Personally, I will focus on the two top tiers, as well as making sure tier B is not too low.
P.S.: Edited to keep fewer attributes in top tiers.
Zippo said: I don't think there's a point in testing Aggression and Bravery attributes but Determination might be tested at some point. Expand
Determination also affects attribute gain from training and other aspects, so I believe it's very important, as well as being free. I agree with Bravery not being so important, considering that tackling and marking didn't matter much either. However, Aggression might be relevant since it is another free attribute, which costs no point in CA.
Zealot said: if players don't need a more obvious attribute like Finishing for scoring then I wouldn't be surprised to know they don't need First Touch to score Expand
Reminds me of old Winning Eleven where you could put Roberto Carlos as striker just because he had maximum speed.
Mark said: I have struggled to find too much correlation. What I thought might help was to turn the approach around.
We covered 6 leagues with the top ranked side and the bottom ranked side for each league. So I looked at the top ranked side that performed the worst and looked at the attributes where they were ranked top or second in the league overall going in to the season. Salford performed the worst of the top ranked sides, being substantially below the other top ranked sides with just 1.844 points per game, and even below one of the bottomed ranked sides.
Interestingly they also had the highest number of attribute rankings at highest or second highest in the league. I looked at all these attributes, because you would expect if these mattered Salford would have performed much better.
Interestingly Salford only had 2 attributes that ranked badly, both at 23rd for their league (the remainder average just over 4th). These attributes were Acceleration and Pace. The second worst performing side of the top ranked sides, Notts County also performed badly on just these 2 attributes plus Determination. Adding weight to these attributes, is that St Albans were ranked 2nd and 3rd for these in their league and they were easily our best lowest ranked side beating Salford in points per game. All the top 4 sides in our test were ranked above average in Acceleration and 3 were ranked above average for Pace.
Safe to say Acceleration and Pace are very important.
Next I looked at where an attribute was ranked 4th or better for the 3 of the 4 top scoring sides and not in the top 10 for Salford or Notts. The one that stood out is Vision. Ranked 4th or better for the 3 top sides in our test, and 6th for the other top 4 side. Ranked 13th for Salford and 10th for Notts.
I will put Vision in at 3rd in most important attributes.
Out of the top 4 sides in our test, 3 had Decisions ranked number 1 in their league with the other being well above average at 7th. Salford and Notts had it ranked 2nd and 3rd in their leagues. Not sure. However, St Albans (lowest ranked side in their league) were ranked 6th for Decisions, and finished 6th of our sides, the only top 6 side not to be top ranked.
I think this swings it for Decisions to be the 4th attribute I will be looking for in finding players.
There are 2 other attributes that were of interest, being the only attributes where the top 4 sides in our test all had them ranked 4th or better in their leagues - Composure and Passing. Salford were ranked 1st for Composure and 2nd for Passing, and Notts were ranked 10th for Composure and 9th for Passing. Jury is out but worth thinking about these 2 as well.
PS: @ZaZ, what is happening with the Leamington save. Expand
Thanks for the analysis. About the save, I am waiting for the attribute importance table to complete before I continue, so I can use it to guide my transfers.
Can someone tell me a bit more about inverted wing back ? I don't know what kind of players i should look for..
Btw, I look forward testing it with small teams so no top players.
Cheers
IWB are wingers that cut inside and become midfielders when you have the ball. They make your team have more options for short passing in the middle, while keeping your flank protected.
For stats, the most important are Acceleration, Pace and Agility. Other than that, they don't need much crossing since they rarely cross the ball anyway. In other words, look for the stats of a DM or CM, but with high speed attributes.
SI never gives any "official numbers" on that subject but you can get a clue about the numbers by changing the values in the pre-game editor or in the in-game editor.
If the numbers in the table is CA cost of the attributes then it's incorrect but if it's something different then I don't know.
In this version, it started including the weights of each attribute in the pre-game editor. You can check.
P.S.: Here is a print screen:
@Grimlock
P.S.: Weight is usually a multiplicative factor to a function. It doesn't mean that decisions is worth 10 times more than vision for a defender. For example, the formula could be something like CA_cost = (10 * weight + 100) / 10. That means 10 points in decision would cost 20 CA, while 10 points in vision would cost 11 CA. This is just an example and has nothing to do with the real formula.
For example, it stays that 1 point of Acceleration and Pace cost 10CA for AMLR positions but that's not true.
Also, it stays that 1 point of Decisions costs 10CA for CD position but that's not true too.
That's the weight, not the cost in CA. The cost in CA has a formula that uses those weights. For example, some players have 0 CA even with lots of fives and sixes. That means it only starts counting after some minimum. I don't know the formula exactly, so I appreciate if someone can share it.
@Sharpy
I just don't get what is the point in going for the extreme values if there are a ton of fast central defenders who are taller than 180cm and having Jumping Reach higher than 11?
Some players from other positions might have cheaper weights for important attributes and have good values where it matters, being a good idea to retrain them, even if they are short.
For FA Cup, I forgot I had three suspended players. It was a very stupid mistake that I do quite often, making me have to play with some tired players and even a gray autogen. Since the team was one division above, I played with Light Blue 2.0 in the first half, to build stress in the opponent, then switched to Blue 2.0 in second half. The match was full of missed opportunities for both sides, ending 0-0, going past extra time and going for penalties. My goalkeeper grabbed one of the kicks and now I am rich. Here are the results.
This is my team and the most important attributes of each player. As you can see, not so bad looking only at those stats, but they are full of sixes, sevens and eights in the other stats. The finances are also there, going from a negative projection to 48k positive, and I will still have the TV revenue from the match against Liverpool (which I will certainly lose). With that, I guess I can get a scout or two and start playing around.
Again, this is the screen that says "you are out of the competition", when I got drawn against Liverpool. Well, I was expecting to fall two matches ago, so can't be so picky.
By the way, I stopped recording videos, as it's annoying to upload them every time and provide a description. This will allow me to progress faster.
Congratulations to Palmeiras for painting America green. I will make a tactic later just to honor them, one of the biggest teams of the world, together with Santos, Boca and River. (I'm from Sweden, just to be clear.)
P.S.: I hired a new striker from Australia, since the one in loan got injured for three months (this time I checked that he had irish nationality, so I don't pay 22k for work permit).
His Height is 182cm and Jumping Reach is "11" but you've seen my results
Would someone with similar stars but 5 cm more make a difference? Worth changing defenders because of that?
Other than that, two negative things happened. First, I was hiring a player and didn't know the price for his passport (from Australia) would cost 22k euros. When I saw that, I panicked and tried to cancel the deal, but the price for the passport was already paid. Ended up without the player or the passport, and a debt of 22k. Now my projected loss by the end of season is almost 40k euros.
The other negative thing is that I drew Liverpool in FA Cup in case I win the postponed match, against a team one league above. That's impossible to win, but if I get there, the TV revenue should definitely save my team for the next two or three seasons.
Anyway, gonna play the next couple of matches, for FA Trophy and FA Cup, then I post some results, as well as a picture of my squad attributes.
Fair enough. I just wanted to know because I have rejected several good players, specially defenders, because they are too short. For example, I usually don't hire a DC shorter than 180 cm. Knowing it's not an issue would also allow me to retrain some DLR or DM into DC.
Maybe you are right for vision. However, I think Dribbling is still important, since removing dribble more from defenders (changing to CD) make them perform worse.
P.S.: To be honest, ignoring tiers B and down would be ok, since the difference is only big enough for tier A and S attributes. You can use low tiers for tiebreaking.
Tier S: Acceleration and Pace
Tier A: Agility and Dribbling
Tier B: Balance and Vision
Tier C: Anticipation, Jumping Reach, Decisions, Positioning and Passing
Tier F: All others
Personally, I will focus on the two top tiers, as well as making sure tier B is not too low.
P.S.: Edited to keep fewer attributes in top tiers.
Determination also affects attribute gain from training and other aspects, so I believe it's very important, as well as being free. I agree with Bravery not being so important, considering that tackling and marking didn't matter much either. However, Aggression might be relevant since it is another free attribute, which costs no point in CA.
Reminds me of old Winning Eleven where you could put Roberto Carlos as striker just because he had maximum speed.
We covered 6 leagues with the top ranked side and the bottom ranked side for each league. So I looked at the top ranked side that performed the worst and looked at the attributes where they were ranked top or second in the league overall going in to the season. Salford performed the worst of the top ranked sides, being substantially below the other top ranked sides with just 1.844 points per game, and even below one of the bottomed ranked sides.
Interestingly they also had the highest number of attribute rankings at highest or second highest in the league. I looked at all these attributes, because you would expect if these mattered Salford would have performed much better.
Interestingly Salford only had 2 attributes that ranked badly, both at 23rd for their league (the remainder average just over 4th). These attributes were Acceleration and Pace. The second worst performing side of the top ranked sides, Notts County also performed badly on just these 2 attributes plus Determination. Adding weight to these attributes, is that St Albans were ranked 2nd and 3rd for these in their league and they were easily our best lowest ranked side beating Salford in points per game. All the top 4 sides in our test were ranked above average in Acceleration and 3 were ranked above average for Pace.
Safe to say Acceleration and Pace are very important.
Next I looked at where an attribute was ranked 4th or better for the 3 of the 4 top scoring sides and not in the top 10 for Salford or Notts. The one that stood out is Vision. Ranked 4th or better for the 3 top sides in our test, and 6th for the other top 4 side. Ranked 13th for Salford and 10th for Notts.
I will put Vision in at 3rd in most important attributes.
Out of the top 4 sides in our test, 3 had Decisions ranked number 1 in their league with the other being well above average at 7th. Salford and Notts had it ranked 2nd and 3rd in their leagues. Not sure. However, St Albans (lowest ranked side in their league) were ranked 6th for Decisions, and finished 6th of our sides, the only top 6 side not to be top ranked.
I think this swings it for Decisions to be the 4th attribute I will be looking for in finding players.
There are 2 other attributes that were of interest, being the only attributes where the top 4 sides in our test all had them ranked 4th or better in their leagues - Composure and Passing. Salford were ranked 1st for Composure and 2nd for Passing, and Notts were ranked 10th for Composure and 9th for Passing. Jury is out but worth thinking about these 2 as well.
PS: @ZaZ, what is happening with the Leamington save.
Thanks for the analysis. About the save, I am waiting for the attribute importance table to complete before I continue, so I can use it to guide my transfers.