Mark said: @ZaZ I tried two hybrid versions of set pieces and neither advanced the Motion or Void set pieces. So I think I am now down to just testing those 2 and the Phoenix one in ZaZ Blue 2. Might also try the two hybrids as well - MDW above and another.
The hybrids seem to be working ok in my save game though Expand
I just started collecting data. I set Blue with Play For Set Pieces and will do five runs of each set piece, collecting data like points, goals scored, goals conceded, assists from corners, free kicks and throw ins, goals from free kicks and goals conceded from the same things. Then I will pick the median (3rd best) from each stat to decide the best. This will give me a base setup for the set pieces, which I will then try to improve with experiments, trying to understand why it works well.
Mark said: My squad has very much higher ratings for roles for those positions. But you are probably right.
I am not sure whether there is that much certainty in this stuff. The tests seem to be quite variable. I will see how it plays in my save using the modified version and then test later in the week. Was just a bit of fun looking at it all and then comparing the ones that seemed better against the ones that appeared not to be good. Didnt pay much attention to the ones in the middle. Expand
I guess it's pretty clear that my set pieces are far from the best and can be improved. I will run some experiments with those three top set pieces (and mine) and see what I can copy from each type of set piece. Then I will see if I can improve it even further.
About the roles, I wouldn't care much about the assistant opinion. I actually doubt the number of stars make any difference at all. I think the only things that matter are tactical affinity and position proficiency.
I didn't know my set pieces were that bad. I mean, it's not bad, but the set pieces from Void, Phoenix and Motion seem much better. Are you making extra experiments on those three to avoid statistical noise? I am just waiting for your final results to update my tactics and give you credits.
ta2199 said: @ZaZ I saw in the Corner Set Piece that MR and ML take the corners. But sometime when watching the highlight the AMC take it. Is it a bug ? Expand
My set pieces were based on Duke's, then I made experiments until I started getting good results. I didn't pay much attention to what you said, only numbers by the end of a season. I will check during matches if it really happens, then try to understand why it happens. I believe it might have to do with difference in attributes or maybe substitutions during the match. I will check and let you know.
P.S.: I usually play with key highlights and never noticed. I might be blind.
Mark said: Where can I source this information. I have all the game saves from the end of each season Expand
Team Report -> Analyst Report -> Scoring/Conceding -> Assists. You need a performance analyst, though. The lower teams probably don't have and didn't collect that data.
Mark said: I have done 10 test runs so far, all across 5 Divisions. I am doing 3 test runs across 5 Divisions for each Set Piece Routine, only using the Set Piece Routine on the lowest ranked team of each Division. I have definitely ruled out using Lie Cheat Steal as it returned 20% less points per game than the current leader. Also going to exclude Fireball which 8% below current leader. Motion is the current leader and sits 5% above the base Phoenix results. The tests continue. Expand
Make sure to divide the table in assists from throw ins, corners and free kicks, as well as direct goals from free kicks. If possible, do so for both goals scored and conceded, so we can analyze attack and defense. Some set piece can be better for corners but worse for free kicks, for example.
P.S.: Instead of using absolute number of assists by set pieces, it's probably better to use the % of total goals, to make it more precise.
Nikko said: Then getting professional status looks like the best choice to me Expand
Except that it costs like 1 million euros. The problem of being the worst team in the worst league is that no good players or staff want to move to your team. It doesn't matter if you have millions if your team has no reputation.
Nikko said: I don't think that improving the training facilities would give you any significant benefits but I haven't played much in the lower leagues and I have no idea what benefits you get from becoming professional... could you enlighten me? Expand
You are right about training facilities. The benefit is marginal, but I like to think I am improving the quality of the team I am managing, instead of just winning trophies.
About professional status, it allows players to train every day instead of just two days a week. It also allows to train three sessions in a day, instead of only two. Other benefits include longer contracts, more sponsorship and better reputation, which can atteact better players. On the other hand, the wages become more expensive.
Played a couple more of matches. I am currently leading the league and in the semi-finals of FA Trophy. The results are below.
For finances, I have over 100k of projected balance for next year. I can either hire better players, save to become professional or upgrade my training facilities. I am leaning towards becoming professional first. What are your opinions? I will post the finances and squad below.
Now, I reached the part of the season when I evaluate my squad and decide who will stay for next year and what areas I need to improve. I will show my players position for position and tell what I think of them, but let me know what you think of them as well.
For GK, I have two good ones for my division, with low wages. I am planning to keep them both.
For CD, I will definitely get rid of Joshua King. I plan to keep the other three and hire a new one for the main team. Josef Hefele was a DR that was retrained to DC.
For DR, I am letting Alfie Saunders go and keeping Callum Watts, originally a MC being retrained as DR.
For DL, I am keeping them both.
For DM, I am keping Laurence Wootton and letting Jay Barton go.
For MC, I am planning to keep them both.
For MR, I will also keep both of them. Denilson Carvalho was originally an AMC before being retrained to DR. After I hired Callum Waters, I decided to retrain Denilson as a MR, since he has higher Crossing then Callum. If I find a better MR, I might make Denilson into a DR again.
For ML, I will keep Rayan Clarke and let Nathan Newall go.
For AMC, I plan to keep all of them.
Brown-Sterling is a goal scoring machine, with 23 goals in 24 matches and 7 assists. He performed as good as that in Sweden, which makes it the second time he is the star of my team. For anyone playing in the weakest leagues, make sure to hire this beast.
My strategy for renewing contracts is very simple. Anyone asking more than 30k won't get it. I also want my players to agree low play times, at most as squad player, so I can rotate both players equally if they are evenly matched or let the best in the position play more, in case I hire a very good player for the position. Lower playing times also lead to lower wages.
If it was one of you, what would you do with the money and which players you would let go?
Mark said: Ok, I think I will try them in the save I had testing lower league management. All the Set Pieces are coming from the successful tactics for FM21 on FM Arena. The are very much all similar with most being 4-1-3-2 strikerless and a few 4-1-2-3 strikerless. Mainly MC moving to AMC. I will adjust where positioning/roles are substantially different. I understand the complexities on role and duties but will see what it throws up and then test the winner in my real save or against the lower league management save I had with Viola and ZaZ Blue. On the comments from @ZaZ, I think have the same team means these things would even out. Anyhow, still keen to see if any of the set pieces deliver a dominant result after 3 runs in 5 divisions for each routine versus the original Phoenix v3.0 results. Let me know if you want to know the results Expand
I am interested. Whatever works for Phoenix will work for Blue, since they both have a similar structure and play style.
Milakus said: Hehe As it can be seen down below in my Tottenham save the season started quite well for me as well. I got 7 wins after 8 matches but then everything felt apart... I think it proves that 5 matches or even 9 matches isn't enough to test a tactic Expand
The more the players get affinity to this tactic, the worse they play. They won matches with @Mark because they didn't know the tactic yet.
Mark said: Fair enough. I thought it was worth a punt as there really are no forums on this around, unlike my last game which was FM19 which had a set piece flaw with throw ins Expand
It's still possible to test for specific tactics. For example, you can pick Phoenix or Blue and plugin each set piece, testing like three times each to see if there is significant difference. However, you still have to adjust the set pieces so the positions are right, because they can get messed if you change the formation. For example, if I plug in Phoenix set pieces in Blue, it will have wrong positions in set pieces because of how the tactic was set initially. Another problem is that some tactics just have different positions, like some with more midfielders, more strikers or without wingers, which would need to be adjusted accordingly. Anyway, it can be done for a specific tactic, but it will also need those kind of adjustments.
Also, stats from set pieces can be misleading. For example, a tactic can have several goals from corners not because the set pieces are good, but because it shoots a lot and get lots of corners. Same for free kicks, getting lots of fouls because your players drible more in dangerous are. For defense, a tactic can have very good results because it makes most fouls further from the box, making you feel like it concedes less from free kicks. That being said, it's very hard to test.
Wow, this is by far the worst tactic of this patch. I am trying to understand what makes it so bad, if the Libero, Stay On Feet, Hold Shape or Inverted Wingers. I knew those things are highly inefficient, but didn't know they could make a big team end in the relegation zone.
Just so I know, was this intentionally crafted to be the worst tactic or just a coincidence?
Can someone tell me a bit more about inverted wing back ? I don't know what kind of players i should look for..
Btw, I look forward testing it with small teams so no top players.
Cheers Expand
IWB are wingers that cut inside and become midfielders when you have the ball. They make your team have more options for short passing in the middle, while keeping your flank protected.
For stats, the most important are Acceleration, Pace and Agility. Other than that, they don't need much crossing since they rarely cross the ball anyway. In other words, look for the stats of a DM or CM, but with high speed attributes.
Haven't played much because of work, but here is some updates. Played eight more matches, being five for Vanarama North, two for FA Trophy and one for FA Cup against Liverpool. Got raped twice, against Liverpool and another team from Vanarama North, one tie and five victories. Unfortunately, there was no TV for the match against Liverpool, so I didn't get rich. However, I am still alive in the Trophy and one victory behind the leader in the League, with one less match. My projected balance for next year is almost 68k, so I will soon start to invest this money in the team. I definitely need to replace Nestor Shako, since he is clearly performing worse than other teammates, probably because he is a slow winger.
Grimlock said: An attribute with a value of 6 or less has a weight of 0, therefore a player with 6 in all attributes will have CA 0
SI never gives any "official numbers" on that subject but you can get a clue about the numbers by changing the values in the pre-game editor or in the in-game editor.
If the numbers in the table is CA cost of the attributes then it's incorrect but if it's something different then I don't know. Expand
In this version, it started including the weights of each attribute in the pre-game editor. You can check.
P.S.: Weight is usually a multiplicative factor to a function. It doesn't mean that decisions is worth 10 times more than vision for a defender. For example, the formula could be something like CA_cost = (10 * weight + 100) / 10. That means 10 points in decision would cost 20 CA, while 10 points in vision would cost 11 CA. This is just an example and has nothing to do with the real formula.
For example, it stays that 1 point of Acceleration and Pace cost 10CA for AMLR positions but that's not true.
Also, it stays that 1 point of Decisions costs 10CA for CD position but that's not true too. Expand
That's the weight, not the cost in CA. The cost in CA has a formula that uses those weights. For example, some players have 0 CA even with lots of fives and sixes. That means it only starts counting after some minimum. I don't know the formula exactly, so I appreciate if someone can share it.
The hybrids seem to be working ok in my save game though
I just started collecting data. I set Blue with Play For Set Pieces and will do five runs of each set piece, collecting data like points, goals scored, goals conceded, assists from corners, free kicks and throw ins, goals from free kicks and goals conceded from the same things. Then I will pick the median (3rd best) from each stat to decide the best. This will give me a base setup for the set pieces, which I will then try to improve with experiments, trying to understand why it works well.
I am not sure whether there is that much certainty in this stuff. The tests seem to be quite variable. I will see how it plays in my save using the modified version and then test later in the week. Was just a bit of fun looking at it all and then comparing the ones that seemed better against the ones that appeared not to be good. Didnt pay much attention to the ones in the middle.
I guess it's pretty clear that my set pieces are far from the best and can be improved. I will run some experiments with those three top set pieces (and mine) and see what I can copy from each type of set piece. Then I will see if I can improve it even further.
About the roles, I wouldn't care much about the assistant opinion. I actually doubt the number of stars make any difference at all. I think the only things that matter are tactical affinity and position proficiency.
I saw in the Corner Set Piece that MR and ML take the corners. But sometime when watching the highlight the AMC take it. Is it a bug ?
My set pieces were based on Duke's, then I made experiments until I started getting good results. I didn't pay much attention to what you said, only numbers by the end of a season. I will check during matches if it really happens, then try to understand why it happens. I believe it might have to do with difference in attributes or maybe substitutions during the match. I will check and let you know.
P.S.: I usually play with key highlights and never noticed. I might be blind.
Team Report -> Analyst Report -> Scoring/Conceding -> Assists. You need a performance analyst, though. The lower teams probably don't have and didn't collect that data.
Make sure to divide the table in assists from throw ins, corners and free kicks, as well as direct goals from free kicks. If possible, do so for both goals scored and conceded, so we can analyze attack and defense. Some set piece can be better for corners but worse for free kicks, for example.
P.S.: Instead of using absolute number of assists by set pieces, it's probably better to use the % of total goals, to make it more precise.
Except that it costs like 1 million euros. The problem of being the worst team in the worst league is that no good players or staff want to move to your team. It doesn't matter if you have millions if your team has no reputation.
You are right about training facilities. The benefit is marginal, but I like to think I am improving the quality of the team I am managing, instead of just winning trophies.
About professional status, it allows players to train every day instead of just two days a week. It also allows to train three sessions in a day, instead of only two. Other benefits include longer contracts, more sponsorship and better reputation, which can atteact better players. On the other hand, the wages become more expensive.
For finances, I have over 100k of projected balance for next year. I can either hire better players, save to become professional or upgrade my training facilities. I am leaning towards becoming professional first. What are your opinions? I will post the finances and squad below.
Now, I reached the part of the season when I evaluate my squad and decide who will stay for next year and what areas I need to improve. I will show my players position for position and tell what I think of them, but let me know what you think of them as well.
For GK, I have two good ones for my division, with low wages. I am planning to keep them both.
For CD, I will definitely get rid of Joshua King. I plan to keep the other three and hire a new one for the main team. Josef Hefele was a DR that was retrained to DC.
For DR, I am letting Alfie Saunders go and keeping Callum Watts, originally a MC being retrained as DR.
For DL, I am keeping them both.
For DM, I am keping Laurence Wootton and letting Jay Barton go.
For MC, I am planning to keep them both.
For MR, I will also keep both of them. Denilson Carvalho was originally an AMC before being retrained to DR. After I hired Callum Waters, I decided to retrain Denilson as a MR, since he has higher Crossing then Callum. If I find a better MR, I might make Denilson into a DR again.
For ML, I will keep Rayan Clarke and let Nathan Newall go.
For AMC, I plan to keep all of them.
Brown-Sterling is a goal scoring machine, with 23 goals in 24 matches and 7 assists. He performed as good as that in Sweden, which makes it the second time he is the star of my team. For anyone playing in the weakest leagues, make sure to hire this beast.
My strategy for renewing contracts is very simple. Anyone asking more than 30k won't get it. I also want my players to agree low play times, at most as squad player, so I can rotate both players equally if they are evenly matched or let the best in the position play more, in case I hire a very good player for the position. Lower playing times also lead to lower wages.
If it was one of you, what would you do with the money and which players you would let go?
I am interested. Whatever works for Phoenix will work for Blue, since they both have a similar structure and play style.
The more the players get affinity to this tactic, the worse they play. They won matches with @Mark because they didn't know the tactic yet.
It's still possible to test for specific tactics. For example, you can pick Phoenix or Blue and plugin each set piece, testing like three times each to see if there is significant difference. However, you still have to adjust the set pieces so the positions are right, because they can get messed if you change the formation. For example, if I plug in Phoenix set pieces in Blue, it will have wrong positions in set pieces because of how the tactic was set initially. Another problem is that some tactics just have different positions, like some with more midfielders, more strikers or without wingers, which would need to be adjusted accordingly. Anyway, it can be done for a specific tactic, but it will also need those kind of adjustments.
Just so I know, was this intentionally crafted to be the worst tactic or just a coincidence?
Can someone tell me a bit more about inverted wing back ? I don't know what kind of players i should look for..
Btw, I look forward testing it with small teams so no top players.
Cheers
IWB are wingers that cut inside and become midfielders when you have the ball. They make your team have more options for short passing in the middle, while keeping your flank protected.
For stats, the most important are Acceleration, Pace and Agility. Other than that, they don't need much crossing since they rarely cross the ball anyway. In other words, look for the stats of a DM or CM, but with high speed attributes.
SI never gives any "official numbers" on that subject but you can get a clue about the numbers by changing the values in the pre-game editor or in the in-game editor.
If the numbers in the table is CA cost of the attributes then it's incorrect but if it's something different then I don't know.
In this version, it started including the weights of each attribute in the pre-game editor. You can check.
P.S.: Here is a print screen:
@Grimlock
P.S.: Weight is usually a multiplicative factor to a function. It doesn't mean that decisions is worth 10 times more than vision for a defender. For example, the formula could be something like CA_cost = (10 * weight + 100) / 10. That means 10 points in decision would cost 20 CA, while 10 points in vision would cost 11 CA. This is just an example and has nothing to do with the real formula.
For example, it stays that 1 point of Acceleration and Pace cost 10CA for AMLR positions but that's not true.
Also, it stays that 1 point of Decisions costs 10CA for CD position but that's not true too.
That's the weight, not the cost in CA. The cost in CA has a formula that uses those weights. For example, some players have 0 CA even with lots of fives and sixes. That means it only starts counting after some minimum. I don't know the formula exactly, so I appreciate if someone can share it.
@Sharpy