ZaZ
Django said: @ZaZ I have been using the Blue2 tactic for about 2 months and I can say very clearly that it is the best tactic I have tried. I came out of the lower leagues with Hull and joined the champions league as the third in the Premier League in the first season. After the last match engine change, I started using Blue 2.2 as you suggested, but the results started to go bad and I can't fix what I do :) Is it a reality of the game to not be able to stop it when it starts to go bad sometimes and should I continue to use 2.2 in the same way? As a result, I strengthened my squad as required by the positions and great work has happened every season. However, after the last update, nothing is as before. Do you have any advice? So when things start to go wrong, is there anything you say "do this" in particular? I warn the players for poor performance, I hold a team meeting, etc. (I also started to use the Zaz training.I was having my assistant do it before. I wonder if this might have affected it too) I would be glad if you could give an idea.

Finally, I thank you for your support of FM players. :)


You don't need to thank me. I also use the tactic, so in fact, you are the ones helping me by testing it. Anyway, Blue 2.2 is better than 2.0, and slightly better than 2.1. The difference in points is not so big, just 1 or 2 more points per season, but it's more solid and ends the season with a better goal difference. Bad streaks can and will happen with any tactic, because the engine is designed to make things run out of control. The less morale, the higher chance to lose, and when you lose, you lower the morale. I am also quite sure there is a hidden attribute for complacency that increases when you win matches in a row or when you face weaker teams, so you need to always keep your player with high morale and make sure they don't get complacent. My advice is like this:

Shouts
- When not winning, encourage. When winning, praise after goals. When winning by a lot, ask to calm down to receive less yellow cards.

Team Talk
- At start, try to motivate or relieve pressure on players. If no effect, tell defenders and midfielders that you have faith on them (this always works).
- At half time, if not winning (or winning by one goal against weak team), tell them you are not happy with the performance. If winning, tell the team you are happy.
- At full time, if not winning by more than one goal, tell them you are not happy. If winning by two goals, tell them it was a good result. If winning by three or more, tell them to not get complacent. You can be more harsh at home or against weak teams, and more kind away from home or against stronger teams. That means sometimes complimenting for a tie against a way stronger team, for example.

Out of match praising
- Praise players with 9.0+ points in the last match.
- Praise players with form 7.5+ in the last 5 matches.
- Praise players with 9.0+ in training.
- Warn players with 6.0- in training, last match or form in last 5 matches.
The numbers are a bit more flexible, but I do that way so I don't need to praise everyone all the time. Also, players complain if you praise too often, specially for training.

Also, remember that training can help a lot with happiness. For example, you should always have two match practices and one team bonding per week, since those increase happiness by a lot.

Anyway, sometimes there isn't much what to do. Players have some hidden attributes that can make them perform badly in important matches, or under pressure, or get more red cards. If you see a player that is never in good form, get rid of him, even if he plays like Messi. It doesn't matter how good the player is if he makes you lose too often.

To finish this big list of things that can cause a team to play badly, there is also the problem of lack of confidence. In FM, it's not uncommon to have strikers five or ten matches in a row without scoring, shooting like toddlers. When both strikers get in a bad streak at once, all you can do is pray for them to score and end their goal drough.

P.S.: My worst sequence of matches with this tactic, playing with the weakest team, was five matches without a victory, which happened only once in five years. The normal is to get streaks of ten or more matches without losing.

EPT93 said: Yeah I get that, is just rotation or is the training schedules? Dunno if its the tight marking thats killing the players. Pre update my adjusted Guido strikerless was unreal

Training schedules make a big difference, yes. If you put very hard trainings every day and don't rotate the team, you are bound to have lots of injuries and not recover players very well between matches. I usually have recovery sessions (green ones that reduce injury risk) at least once every two days. If you have a sport scientist and check the medical centre, you will see stats like match load, training load and fatigue, which affect the risk of injuries. Attributes like stamina and natural fitness also make your players less tired and recover faster, which reduce the number of injuries during the season. In the worst case, you can always right click a player and select Training -> Rest -> 1 or 2 days, to help players with bad stamina recover in time for some important match.

If your only worry is about condition, and not injuries, then I advise you to use Light Blue 2.2 when your are winning by 2+ goals of difference, since it reduces the load on the players. Phoenix also have a similar variant (even better for condition).
EPT93 said: How does it perform in terms of player energy during games? Struggling to find a tactic that doesn't kill my players.

This is a high intensity tactic and it will kill your players if you don't manage their condition level. I would recommend a squad of at least 22 players, where the reserves are trained to supply for two players in the main team.

In my Lemington run (worst team in england), I started with 16 players, then increased to 22 in the second year, 28 in the third and 33 players in the fourth year, which is the size of squad I like to manage. I was the champion in every single year and even got the FA Trophy in the way, which means it's not impossible to manage it with a small squad.

Unfortunately, you won't find a tactic from the top 10 or 20 that is easy on player's condition. The "lightest" one is probably from @Egraam, which is very good and would allow you to win everything, but you will still need to manage players when you have more than one match in the same week.
Thank you for testing! I am still trying to improve the tactic, but I got stuck in 2.2 for now. I tried several adjustments, but none worked so far. I also tried some versions with very attacking mentality, but I couldn't get anything better than just setting 2.2 to very attacking. I hope I can find something good soon.
ta2199 said: DM mostly play in a position between DL and DR so he just provide some passing option for midfielders, I think he should have switching ball, dictate tempo, try long range passes, etc. 
Also I think CM and SS shouldnt have the come deep to get ball ppm.
And you have to know if your players has full tactic familarity ( Position/Duty/Role part ). Some player doesn't need to train at that position to have full tactical familarity but some need to have individual training to get full tactical familarity.
For example is Pogba playing as CM, It doessn't matter how many games I play him there, if I don't have individual training for him as CM(A), he wont get full tactical familarity.


I saw somewhere the only trait that makes a difference for attackers is Moves Into Channels. It would be nice to know for other positions too, like passing or defending traits, for players in the respective positions. When there are't more tactics to test, I would suggesting testing that for @Zippo;
kireby said: I'm sorry, but.. Blue 2.1 is still the best tactic for me, i haven't try 2.2 too much to be honest because i've been satisfied with 2.1 version. Just look at these screens in my RTG career. Coming from 3rd Russian League to Real Madrid in 8 seasons. And i won EVERYTHING for my 2 seasons in Madrid so it's 9 trophies in total.

Martin Odegaard is the best player by stats i've ever had i think, he is a Ballon D'or winner and the best player in Europe as well. I understand it's a Real Madrid, but they only won La Liga once in my save, Barca has been dominating, now poor boys haven't won any cup for last 2 years


Does Odegaard play as DM in your team? I remember @ta2199 said that position was getting low scores on his save, but the fact that your DM is you best performer shows that it's probably not because of the tactic, but because of the player itself (or the partners). For references, I'll link his attributes below:
https://fminside.net/players/53095137-martin-degaard

P.S.: About 2.2, it performs better for me, but the difference is just one or two points per season. The biggest difference is in goal difference, scoring ~5 more goal difference by the end of the season.

P.S.2: Right now I'm checking the best variant of Blue 2.2 with very attacking mentality, to sacrifice a bit of reliability and increase the chance to score. I'll check different passing directness, wideness and maybe be more expressive to see which one scores the most goals without becoming too vulnerable.
skywalk3r83 said: It’s going great πŸ˜πŸ˜„πŸ‘ŒπŸ»  Bundesliga here we come πŸ˜†

Show those bastards from Bayern Munich who is the new boss!
ta2199 said: Do you often play DM or MC at IWB position ? I do find out they played there well, so I think for preseason people should try play them there.
I recently found a thread about this, they said that, only the atttributes matter, position familarity can have a little effect but the role suitability is the least important


I do often retrain players in different positions. For example, my Leamigton team had a striker as DR during Vanarama League North, then I hired a MC to play as DR during Vanarama National League. Both ended the season with very good scores, performing very well.

It's not like position rating doesn't matter, it's just that speed attributes (pace, acceleration, agility, dribbling and balance) matter more. If you have two players with the same attributes, then the one with Natural will perform better than the one with Accomplished. However, if your Accomplished is faster, then it will perform better.

I usually make my team like this:
- Two teams of 11 players + 5 reserves for each (total of 22 players and 10 reserves), and an extra goalkeeper. Total of 33 players (less during lower leagues, when money is limited).
- If someone gets injuried, it gets one reserve from the other team. That ensures all players are used during the season.

For that to work, I need to have my reserves playing in two positions each. That means central defender, left side, right side, midfield and striker. The MC trains as DM and vice-versa, and ML/R trains as DL/R and vice-versa.

Why that's relevant? Because a ML training as DL will become natural in both positions, while an AML retrained to ML will forget it's new role when training as DL. That means it won't be able to keep Natural in both positions. Because of that, I only retrain weird positions to side or midfield in the main teams (it makes no difference for SS and DC). For the reserve teams, I prioritize those that can be natural in both positions (ML/R + DL/R or MC + DM), so I can play them without making distinction of position and give them a good amount of play time.
Just like @Grimlock and @Lapidus said, the top tactics shouldn't have much difference between. The score system of this site was created exactly to measure when some tactic is better than another. If they have the same score, it means they perform almost the same and any difference might be just statistical noise. For reference, 1 point in a league of 20 teams means 0,026 points per match. That means the top three tactics would be separated by, on average, half a point per season. That's too little to say one is better or worse, as the same tactic can very well oscillate five or ten points under the same circunstances, because of RNG.
Gunster said: Thanks! Yeah idk why but for me, this feels way more leaky in the back compared to both Phoenix 4.0 and AfterLife. I definitely lack pace to use it I think but it's less of an issue with the other tactics.

Scoring goals like a madman though but I've never given up so many goals before lol


Blue 2.1 sacrifices a bit of defense in set pieces to get more counter attack opportunities. If you check the table, it's the tactic with the highest goal difference. Blue 2.2 should concede less and have an even higher goal difference (at least in my experiments).
Markizio said: I think only the central defenders and the GK don't rely on Dribbling too much but the Inverted Wings-Backs usually do a lot of dribbling in matches so having a high Dribbling attribute would be beneficial for them

I meant central defenders, gonna edit it.
Gunster said: any specific attributes that you look for in each position or just try to maximize the highlighted ones?

Pace, Acceleration and Agility for all line players (and Dribbling for non central defenders). GK with Agility, Jumping Reach and Reflexes.

https://fm-arena.com/table/9-important-attributes/

P.S.: I just won Vanarama League Two (fourth division in England) with 20 pts over the second. My team had the lowest of all attributes, except pace, acceleration and agility, which were the highest in league. Most my players had 5 or 6 in everything, but 14 or 15 in those three attributes, and I easily dominated the league. Obviously the tactics played a role, but fast players also contribute a lot.
skywalk3r83 said: Do you think your training schedule can work for Phoenix 4.0 or one of the other similar tactics?
And what do you advise when having 2 of 0 matches?


It works for any tactic. When I have less than two matches in a week, I usually set up friendlies to get some income and keep sharpness. During pre-season, I swap the teamwork, attacking movement and defensive shape for endurance training. Here is how it looks during pre-season and during match season. I altered to include match days so they don't swap some training sessions for match preview.


P.S.: I train endurance because natural fitness and stamina reduce the number of injuries during the season.
Just added the Blue 2.2 to the initial post. I removed from the other post so people don't get confused. The difference from 2.1 is Use Tighter Marking. It seems like marking was improved in this match engine and tighter marking is a must. It makes noticiable difference to me, so I hope people can also benefit from this change.

For some reason, using tighter marking as a team instruction works better than adding to player instructions (probably because DW can't have that instruction?), while dribbling more works better in player instruction than in team instruction. It might be just RNG, though.
ta2199 said: I do think training can impact the result or at least the GD


Zaz training

Balanced training

Attack training


Also, the tactic ifself is great but Tottenham have to play 2 or even 3 match per week for a very long time, that explained why they usually have poor result in the game.


That's nice, never thought about the impact of training in the results. I mean, it definitely has an impact, but it would be nice to make a comparison to see "which is the most effective training schedule", considering points per match and total attribute gain.


Mark said: I ran Blue 2.2 with my current save at the start of the game. Had a heap of friendlies arranged which I thought would give players a chance to get used to the tactic. St Albans were the worst ranked side in the comp, and I did a base line when I started which ended up 16th. Only 18 players in the squad so was always going to be hard to do well. In my real save I ended up bringing in a fair few decent young players. For this though, I just went on holidays and set it to not allow players to leave and to use Blue 2.2 tactics.

Results were very impressive. St Albans finished 2nd with 73 pts from their 40 League matches.



Home games were best and I think the 9 draws away could have been a bit unlucky. Went through and looked at all the draws and losses. St Albans had higher xG on 4 of the 7 losses and 9 of the 13 draws. I would call that unlucky not to have won the competition.

With the squad of just 18 players, the stats somehow covered 48 games, must be the cups as well. 10 of the players played 40 games plus as run on players. Shows they didn't have much depth.

I would call this a very good tactic for lower league underdog sides.


Good to know it works well for others. Here it performs much better then 2.1. I'm still finishing tests to see if I find some last improvement before releasing the version 3.0. Meanwhile, my Leamington side (that one from lower leagues) is doing very well. In the first, season it won Vanarama North and FA Trophy. In the second, it won Vanarama National League. Now (the third) it is in the way to win Vanarama League Two. It also became professional in this thir season, improved training and youth facilities once and just started improving training and youth facilities for the second time (which ate most of my money). Youth recruitment and youth coaching were also improved two times, meaning I will probably get someone useful in the next batch of youngsters.

Anyway, it's very noticiable the improvement by Blue 2.2 in that league. My team didn't lose there yet, despite being the weakest in the league. For attributes, I'm the lowest in almost everything, except pace, acceleration, agility and balance, which I'm the first.


ta2199 said: That why I prefered Att training so the Player get better finishing. So many games end up with my team with better chances and xG but still draw or lose.

Nothing leaves a worse taste in the mouth than completely dominating the opponent, but scoring no goals, while they shoot just once and win the game. That's FM for you.

P.S.: By the way, is there a way to set training automatically every year, for the entire year? I always have to do it from scratch in the start of season, then I make one week and copy/paste to all others. Is there a faster way to do so?
ta2199 said: Can you export that schedule ? I'm bit lazy
Anyway, result with V2.2. We should have won the match vs MU


I removed the set pieces training since it was just added because of my current club's vision. Instead, I added two recovery sessions to reduce chance of injury during the season, but you can change it if you like. I'm not sure if it's the best training schedule, but at least it focuses in match benefits, happiness/cohesion/familiarity, injury prevention and the most important attributes. (P.S.3: Remember to set training intensity to double for players in excellent condition. That can be done in Training -> Rest.)

P.S.: Just got kicked from FA Cub by a team two divisions under me, playing at home. Before that, I won a match 10-0, so the players got complacent. =/

P.S.2: Do you feel the difference with Blue 2.2?
ta2199 said: What do you suggested for general training ?

This is what I use. Matches are saturdays and wednesdays in my current league.



Reasoning is:
- Attacking Movement, Defensive Shape and Teamwork: Bonus for next match
- Quickness: Most important attributes to train
- Match Practice and Team Bonding: Happiness and cohesion.
- Recovery: Injury prevention
- Overall: Usually has a match day instead.
- Attacking Corners and Attacking Free Kicks: Current club vision has "Make the most of set pieces".

Feel free to change anything.
I've found some improvement in version 2.2. I'm now working in making it stable to release a 3.0 version soon. However, Phoenix got a bit too close to Blue, so I wonder if I should keep working on it or try something completely new.
ta2199 said: Change IWB(s) to FB(s) kinda work out

I'm trying to identify what kind of crosses are better, if from deep or from the byline. I can see lots of crosses from the byline, more than before, using the same tactic. It seems like my forwards are seeking more the flanks when in the attacking third, which means my wingers are advancing more to that area. Before, the majority of attacking actions came from wingers with through ball to the shadow strikers. It really changed how the matches unfold.
ta2199 said: Nah, I tested a lots with MU, with 4 or 5 save, the most common type when conceding is Cross and Through balls.
I mean damn, they have 3 to 5 shots and then 1 cross from midfield, boom 1 goal


It might be just me, but my players are trying (or succeeding) way more crosses than before. I think that's why formations without IWB or with AML/R are performing better. I need to play a bit more to confirm this and see if I find another clue. Goals from crosses per season have increased over 50%.
Gratz! Finally some new ideas!