tried to create something similiar to a more unconventional 433 in terms of roles and responsabilties, not rly sure if the IWB combo is ideal but lets give it a spin
Was curious to try a flat 4231 with 2 CMs and this ran amazing through the whole season with City with a really good offensive coverage and a pretty good defensive form for the lack of DMs in the shape. It seemed to me that the Ball Winning Midfielder is a disguised combination of a Defensive Midfielder and a regular Central Midfielder role and it offers really good balance for also assist and goal contribution while keeping the main credit to the players in front like seen in the stats.
Lets give this a run here to see if flat 4231 is better than meta 4231s with double DM.
Still trying to improve this shape somehow, this version uses Wingers instead of Inside Forwards with the combination of overlaps to stretch the pitch as much as possible while still providing goal threats from everywhere.
I tried a version with the same setup without overlaps but all that did was to increase the attacking threat of the AMC position with no real benefit to any other position so perhaps this current setup is better!
Delicious said: I can tell you, once i will start to run 8k runs or 12k. But literally at this point, to me 90% is a cosmetic scenario. And we just build a "puzzle" the tactic. PI/TI interaction is very strange.
At first i did believe it was like you said on FM23, that there was an hidden "multiplier" like pass into space + take more risk was rising it to 20 (example).
But literally they are the same thing on FM24. And not every role needs it. Even Hold up is doing something good. (Or maybe is another cosmetic feature, can't understand from the game, because i can't notice any difference).
But the CF(su) results are leading me to thinking the contrary. Expand
All top tactics seem to have Pass Into Space plus Run At Defense which we can attribute to Take More Risk and Dribble More in some way however when I am building (its just my theory and it can be completetly flawed) whenever I put a role in Attack I rarely add these PIs and I add instead to the ones that are on Support and Defense.
The ones that seem to be worth adding to every role depending on the shape is Roam From Position, Hold Up Ball and Move Into Channels in my opinion. The latter depending if there are players occupying the same half space of course.
Delicious said: If you check the EBFM's video you will understand that mentality has very little to do with "condition", it's more about training, gonna post a video about my thoughts on it soon.
Keep always in mind that RNG is there, i have countless of excel's data file with dropping or increasing of 3 points on 4k runs.
For example this is the "best" on my test league :
I can find you infinite trials with a "bad" run. So don't be too much focused on "3 points less", it's more "The tactic weren't lucky enough to cwin the gamble".
Later on gonna implement more data on my python_script, player's built are literally made by my "logic". Expand
Perfect my man thanks for the info and I will search for this video on Ytube in regards to the condition to understand it a bit better!
Also I have seen now that you have your own test league so you got plenty of data to back you up which is what we all need to learn, glad that you can share such stats with us
I used what Delicious stated above with the WB cross more often combo did that and maybe like Delicious is saying its a bit of a dice roll however 3 Point Difference seems probably better to use FB
@Delicious if I could continue to pick your brain! What you think about Very Attacking mentality, I released another version with no focus play and Very Attacking and it felt better than Attacking atleast in this shape.
dzek said: @juwow what are the PIs for FBs? In some tests I did on the 24.1 version of the game, FBs did great and for a while I recommended it to others but I had some doubts in general when they had the ball compared to WBs. Expand
The FBs have Shoot Less Often to disregard the random shots the AI does and Tackle Harder, pretty basic.
I feel like maybe in 3 CB formations the WB needs a bit more input to do his work but in this shape almost anything can work I believe
Changelog:
SS - AM (A)
Kept everything the same but just changed to an AM (A) to see how different the score can be vs a Shadow Striker.
I swear when i pressed enter your comment appeared haha, felt like a echo
Lets give this a run here to see if flat 4231 is better than meta 4231s with double DM.
I tried a version with the same setup without overlaps but all that did was to increase the attacking threat of the AMC position with no real benefit to any other position so perhaps this current setup is better!
Mentality was changed from Balanced to Attacking as we seemed to lack goals in the previous test while the defense was decent.
Changelog TI:
Added Overlaps on both sides
(Removed the Fairly Wide option on the previous test as now we are using Attacking Mentality anyway)
Changelog Player Roles:
3 BPD - 3 L (D)
Changelog PI:
Added Take More Risks to both AMC positions
We scored a lot more goals in this test while not hurting the defense that much so lets see if this is slightly better than last time!
At first i did believe it was like you said on FM23, that there was an hidden "multiplier" like pass into space + take more risk was rising it to 20 (example).
But literally they are the same thing on FM24. And not every role needs it. Even Hold up is doing something good. (Or maybe is another cosmetic feature, can't understand from the game, because i can't notice any difference).
But the CF(su) results are leading me to thinking the contrary.
All top tactics seem to have Pass Into Space plus Run At Defense which we can attribute to Take More Risk and Dribble More in some way however when I am building (its just my theory and it can be completetly flawed) whenever I put a role in Attack I rarely add these PIs and I add instead to the ones that are on Support and Defense.
The ones that seem to be worth adding to every role depending on the shape is Roam From Position, Hold Up Ball and Move Into Channels in my opinion. The latter depending if there are players occupying the same half space of course.
There you go!
Keep always in mind that RNG is there, i have countless of excel's data file with dropping or increasing of 3 points on 4k runs.
For example this is the "best" on my test league :
I can find you infinite trials with a "bad" run. So don't be too much focused on "3 points less", it's more "The tactic weren't lucky enough to cwin the gamble".
Later on gonna implement more data on my python_script, player's built are literally made by my "logic".
Perfect my man thanks for the info and I will search for this video on Ytube in regards to the condition to understand it a bit better!
Also I have seen now that you have your own test league so you got plenty of data to back you up which is what we all need to learn, glad that you can share such stats with us
What about for condition purposes? After a game the players seemed as tired as in Attacking Mentality but maybe cuz its City not sure
Look at this version: https://fm-arena.com/thread/8482-4231-new-era-iii/
I used what Delicious stated above with the WB cross more often combo did that and maybe like Delicious is saying its a bit of a dice roll however 3 Point Difference seems probably better to use FB
Would love to hear your thoughts if you could!
The FBs have Shoot Less Often to disregard the random shots the AI does and Tackle Harder, pretty basic.
I feel like maybe in 3 CB formations the WB needs a bit more input to do his work but in this shape almost anything can work I believe
I did test everything on 4231, results are different from Arena, i am using a different players build scenario.
I prefer SS as well to feed the lone Striker a bit more but results saying AM is tiny-mini-tiny better.
I will give to people a hint. Try WBs(A) with cross-more often if you want to check-out "your gamble's skills"
Thanks my man, appreciate the feedback on the SS usage. Will also take a look at your stuff from the link you provided.
Keep posting here @Delicious, dont leave us!
At least i am happy that the way i am building my test league ain't totaly wrong
Thats insane, you prefer AM to SS normally? I tested AM even with mirror instructions to the IFs but it stalled a bit in these tests