Delicious said: I can tell you, once i will start to run 8k runs or 12k. But literally at this point, to me 90% is a cosmetic scenario. And we just build a "puzzle" the tactic. PI/TI interaction is very strange.
At first i did believe it was like you said on FM23, that there was an hidden "multiplier" like pass into space + take more risk was rising it to 20 (example).
But literally they are the same thing on FM24. And not every role needs it. Even Hold up is doing something good. (Or maybe is another cosmetic feature, can't understand from the game, because i can't notice any difference).
But the CF(su) results are leading me to thinking the contrary. Expand
All top tactics seem to have Pass Into Space plus Run At Defense which we can attribute to Take More Risk and Dribble More in some way however when I am building (its just my theory and it can be completetly flawed) whenever I put a role in Attack I rarely add these PIs and I add instead to the ones that are on Support and Defense.
The ones that seem to be worth adding to every role depending on the shape is Roam From Position, Hold Up Ball and Move Into Channels in my opinion. The latter depending if there are players occupying the same half space of course.
Delicious said: If you check the EBFM's video you will understand that mentality has very little to do with "condition", it's more about training, gonna post a video about my thoughts on it soon.
Keep always in mind that RNG is there, i have countless of excel's data file with dropping or increasing of 3 points on 4k runs.
For example this is the "best" on my test league :
I can find you infinite trials with a "bad" run. So don't be too much focused on "3 points less", it's more "The tactic weren't lucky enough to cwin the gamble".
Later on gonna implement more data on my python_script, player's built are literally made by my "logic". Expand
Perfect my man thanks for the info and I will search for this video on Ytube in regards to the condition to understand it a bit better!
Also I have seen now that you have your own test league so you got plenty of data to back you up which is what we all need to learn, glad that you can share such stats with us
I used what Delicious stated above with the WB cross more often combo did that and maybe like Delicious is saying its a bit of a dice roll however 3 Point Difference seems probably better to use FB
@Delicious if I could continue to pick your brain! What you think about Very Attacking mentality, I released another version with no focus play and Very Attacking and it felt better than Attacking atleast in this shape.
dzek said: @juwow what are the PIs for FBs? In some tests I did on the 24.1 version of the game, FBs did great and for a while I recommended it to others but I had some doubts in general when they had the ball compared to WBs. Expand
The FBs have Shoot Less Often to disregard the random shots the AI does and Tackle Harder, pretty basic.
I feel like maybe in 3 CB formations the WB needs a bit more input to do his work but in this shape almost anything can work I believe
letsgo9 said: Nice one, pairing registas with FBs was insane. Unfortunnely we cant see any correlation with Arena benchmarking and the results you achived with City. I would have dumped this tactic in ur place, probably. Expand
It felt to me that majority of the engine contribution is made in the wings like I saw @A Smile once saying and FB is the only role with Cross More Often enabled by default. Plus it offers better defensive cover than a regular WB.
I tried other versions even with WB with Cross More Often but it didnt really offer that much.
I feel like it could also be a bit RNG but lets see!
Honestly the condition used between Attacking Mentality and Very Attacking Mentality doesnt seem that big so I would say this is viable for most teams I believe. Tactic won everything with insane stats so lets see how it does here in comparision to Attacking 4231´s.
Changelog from the v2 tactic:
Removed Focus down both Flanks (felt better to remove after testing a lot of different TI´s)
letsgo9 said: and btw Kane has done more here than most of members lately, he made the tactics result average rise up in 1 week with his ideas, gotta show some respect too Expand
I mean... I started my first comment in this post by saying "As much as I love your contirbutions".... Nobody discredits Kanes work, we should all be grateful for all the amazing members we have that put countless of hours to make things happen and for us to enjoy FM a bit more.
It doesnt mean that just because he scores high or submits a lot that he can copy paste or do whatever right? Thats not rly respect if you ask me :P
letsgo9 said: I know it seems unfair but Kane is not wrong too, there is no correlation between FM test results and FM Arena benchmarking results. We should be able to test our ideas without wasting this amount of time. Testing stuff with Liverpool/Man City/Man Utd in a season run is just stupid. Expand
But there is a correlation between the rules of the website and all members. Its a matter of respect for common rules that we all need to abide for otherwise none of your posts would get tested... One thing is you test a tactic that you tweaked for ages to make it work and another is just spamming variations of something you think it might work until you hit the jackpot. You might as well create your own test league like FM Arena and then not even bother posting or no?
Of course that after you play the game for a while you understand that most tactics that score here 45 plus points are gonna do good in the game but if nobody tested the tactics and presented results from the runs we wouldnt even be here commenting this because EVERYTHING would have been tested. Simulating a season takes time, waitng for the result also takes time so lets not excuse somebody that is admittedly bending the rules.
CSTG KANE said: Okay, then I promise that I won't do this in the future, and I'll send out my test environment, and the data from each test Expand
Thank you for understanding Kane! I speak for myself because a lot of the time I am making a run and half way I can see straight away that the tactic or the tweak was so bad that I dont even keep going you know, of course if I could post it straight away it would save me a lot of time but that´s also part of the fun you know :P
CSTG KANE said: In fact, I can play the whole season with 38 tactics XD
I admit to using the same picture to save time, but he did play with multiple tactics Expand
Of course you can use 38 tactics in one season but that is not the point of the the run is it? If every user here takes time to load a season with 1 tactic and waits for the run to end so we can post it then the same should be applied to every user with no exceptions (even if its a tweak).
This just ensures a even playing field for everyone posting otherwise anyone would post countless variations of ANY tactic in amazing record time and that is not really the goal
As much as I love your contirbutions, one part of tactic testing is posting screenshots of the run you did with the tactic because it takes time for everyone to test however if we go to every single post you make you always detail the same screenshots of a Luton run with 81 points and always the same screenshots for player statistics (Adebayo with 32 Goals and Barkley with 13 Goals for example).
Not really sure how the admins havent picked that up just yet but maybe either @Droid or @Zippo could take a closer look at this please?
Otherwise we can all post 30 variations of a tactic in 1 hour with copy paste screenshots of one successful run we did in the past.
Changelog Player Roles: FB (A) - WB (A) SS - AM (A)
Changelog PI: Both WB´s (A) have only Cross More Often and Tackle Harder The AM (A) has Hold Up Ball to mirror the IF´s PI´s plus Roam From Position, Move Into Channels and Tackle Harder
At first i did believe it was like you said on FM23, that there was an hidden "multiplier" like pass into space + take more risk was rising it to 20 (example).
But literally they are the same thing on FM24. And not every role needs it. Even Hold up is doing something good. (Or maybe is another cosmetic feature, can't understand from the game, because i can't notice any difference).
But the CF(su) results are leading me to thinking the contrary.
All top tactics seem to have Pass Into Space plus Run At Defense which we can attribute to Take More Risk and Dribble More in some way however when I am building (its just my theory and it can be completetly flawed) whenever I put a role in Attack I rarely add these PIs and I add instead to the ones that are on Support and Defense.
The ones that seem to be worth adding to every role depending on the shape is Roam From Position, Hold Up Ball and Move Into Channels in my opinion. The latter depending if there are players occupying the same half space of course.
There you go!
Keep always in mind that RNG is there, i have countless of excel's data file with dropping or increasing of 3 points on 4k runs.
For example this is the "best" on my test league :
I can find you infinite trials with a "bad" run. So don't be too much focused on "3 points less", it's more "The tactic weren't lucky enough to cwin the gamble".
Later on gonna implement more data on my python_script, player's built are literally made by my "logic".
Perfect my man thanks for the info and I will search for this video on Ytube in regards to the condition to understand it a bit better!
Also I have seen now that you have your own test league so you got plenty of data to back you up which is what we all need to learn, glad that you can share such stats with us
What about for condition purposes? After a game the players seemed as tired as in Attacking Mentality but maybe cuz its City not sure
Look at this version: https://fm-arena.com/thread/8482-4231-new-era-iii/
I used what Delicious stated above with the WB cross more often combo did that and maybe like Delicious is saying its a bit of a dice roll however 3 Point Difference seems probably better to use FB
Would love to hear your thoughts if you could!
The FBs have Shoot Less Often to disregard the random shots the AI does and Tackle Harder, pretty basic.
I feel like maybe in 3 CB formations the WB needs a bit more input to do his work but in this shape almost anything can work I believe
I did test everything on 4231, results are different from Arena, i am using a different players build scenario.
I prefer SS as well to feed the lone Striker a bit more but results saying AM is tiny-mini-tiny better.
I will give to people a hint. Try WBs(A) with cross-more often if you want to check-out "your gamble's skills"
Thanks my man, appreciate the feedback on the SS usage. Will also take a look at your stuff from the link you provided.
Keep posting here @Delicious, dont leave us!
At least i am happy that the way i am building my test league ain't totaly wrong
Thats insane, you prefer AM to SS normally? I tested AM even with mirror instructions to the IFs but it stalled a bit in these tests
It felt to me that majority of the engine contribution is made in the wings like I saw @A Smile once saying and FB is the only role with Cross More Often enabled by default. Plus it offers better defensive cover than a regular WB.
I tried other versions even with WB with Cross More Often but it didnt really offer that much.
I feel like it could also be a bit RNG but lets see!
Honestly the condition used between Attacking Mentality and Very Attacking Mentality doesnt seem that big so I would say this is viable for most teams I believe. Tactic won everything with insane stats so lets see how it does here in comparision to Attacking 4231´s.
Changelog from the v2 tactic:
Removed Focus down both Flanks (felt better to remove after testing a lot of different TI´s)
I mean... I started my first comment in this post by saying "As much as I love your contirbutions".... Nobody discredits Kanes work, we should all be grateful for all the amazing members we have that put countless of hours to make things happen and for us to enjoy FM a bit more.
It doesnt mean that just because he scores high or submits a lot that he can copy paste or do whatever right? Thats not rly respect if you ask me :P
But there is a correlation between the rules of the website and all members. Its a matter of respect for common rules that we all need to abide for otherwise none of your posts would get tested... One thing is you test a tactic that you tweaked for ages to make it work and another is just spamming variations of something you think it might work until you hit the jackpot. You might as well create your own test league like FM Arena and then not even bother posting or no?
Of course that after you play the game for a while you understand that most tactics that score here 45 plus points are gonna do good in the game but if nobody tested the tactics and presented results from the runs we wouldnt even be here commenting this because EVERYTHING would have been tested. Simulating a season takes time, waitng for the result also takes time so lets not excuse somebody that is admittedly bending the rules.
Thank you for understanding Kane! I speak for myself because a lot of the time I am making a run and half way I can see straight away that the tactic or the tweak was so bad that I dont even keep going you know, of course if I could post it straight away it would save me a lot of time but that´s also part of the fun you know :P
I admit to using the same picture to save time, but he did play with multiple tactics
Of course you can use 38 tactics in one season but that is not the point of the the run is it? If every user here takes time to load a season with 1 tactic and waits for the run to end so we can post it then the same should be applied to every user with no exceptions (even if its a tweak).
This just ensures a even playing field for everyone posting otherwise anyone would post countless variations of ANY tactic in amazing record time and that is not really the goal
Not really sure how the admins havent picked that up just yet but maybe either @Droid or @Zippo could take a closer look at this please?
Otherwise we can all post 30 variations of a tactic in 1 hour with copy paste screenshots of one successful run we did in the past.
Changelog Player Roles:
FB (A) - WB (A)
SS - AM (A)
Changelog PI:
Both WB´s (A) have only Cross More Often and Tackle Harder
The AM (A) has Hold Up Ball to mirror the IF´s PI´s plus Roam From Position, Move Into Channels and Tackle Harder
Lets see if this time we surpass the 63 points :P