nator said: It will not get tested never or it will be after others? I think i have change the only bad things the other had and made the perfect one thats why i upload it Expand
Cheekyhalfling said: What would you believe are the key positions for best players, say you had an average team and money to sign 2 or 3 star players, what positions would you think would be best? Expand
CBP87 said: Not so sure about that pal, I mean I've tested it with multiple teams and it did better than pre season prediction, with the likes of Villa and PSG they have very strong wide players but it still did very well. I suppose its personal preference, I'm using this in one of my saves and I sold all the wide players and brought in work horses for the midfield roles (Bissouma is fantastic by the way). Messi mostly played as the right sided Mez in the PSG save Expand
No doubts, it's a great tactic and you'll do better that the prediction with any team.
I just tell my experience. I would bother with an "exotic" formation only if it promises a head above result than any other tactics and I think most people also think that way. I really wanted to try this tactic but it's was hard to find a team that fits it. I found few teams that somehow fits it, I mean they had enough central midfielders but even that the central midfielders were a way worse than the wingers or inside forwards. Also, it's obvious that speed matters a lot in FM but there're very few fast central midfielders in the game.
Once more, it's a great tactic, unfortunately, the formation is a bit exotic.
But unfortunately, it's very hard to find a team that fits this formation. Most team have Inside Forwards and Wingers and they don't have enough central midfielders, especially, very quality central midfielders so I doubt it'll be very popular
Belmorn said: @Sandro thank you for that link , team cohesion not being editable / freezeable can definitely contribute to slightly off expected results , as well as the obvious rng is rng or better said on a forum like this : fm is fm. Expand
Obviously, Team Cohesion has some influence but I don't think it's responsible for the results' variation we see in the test league. If you remove all the RNG factors from the game then it still will be that random because the game is that random and you can't do anything about it, you can just slight reduce the RNG by eliminating as many as possible random factors but still it'll quite random because the developers from SI want the game to be like that.
Belmorn said: Once again I think you are doing awesome work. Do you have any idea what’s causing quite some fluctuation between the same tests ? Take Tika taka for example , in a test their b team is almost relegated while in the test after it , it’s 2nd after team A. Given that all circumstances are equal , I don’t expect quite such a large difference in results ( 50 points ? ) I’m not a data analyst person so I don’t really have an answer to this. Expand
cptdoggo said: I just tested this, and I get marginally better results with positive mentality, I attached 2 tests where difference is obvious, I had closer calls though. I would say positive is ~5-10% better for conserving energy, as it does reduce the slider a little, although I'm not sure if that makes a lot of difference, as adding "Ease off Tackles" reduces the slider by a lot more, but also gives a max 5% increase. This all might just be RNG playing in, even though my league is similarly "equalized" like the FM-Arena testing league.
I have yet to fully test this, but I think position/role makes much more of a difference. In my tests, my F9 was always 200-300 condition more tired than the AF's. I'll give some averages as an example for my 3 attacking positions.
F9-Support + 2x IF-Attack = 6700 Avg. Condition after match, with F9 scoring around 7200 and IF around 6400-6500.
F9-Support + 2x AF-Attack = 7400 Avg. Condition after match, with F9 scoring around 7200 and AF around 7500-7600.
Positive
Very Attacking
EDIT: Conclusion is that some combinations are superior this year, at least from the perspective of Stamina, and because condition affects performance so much, I would say even overall, since strikers conserve Condition so much better than attacking wingers and wide positions in general suffer the most from stamina issues, followed closely by CM and DM/AM. Expand
cptdoggo said: There never will be any good tactic with purple or green intensity. This is still much less demanding than a Very Attacking tactic. I use this in my Athletic Club save and 10 stamina strikers can play 70-90min no prob with this tactic.
I know the difference in the visual slider is minimal, but in game, positive vs very attacking difference in stamina is huge Expand
Actually, it can be measured and I've done such tests many times. The mentality makes no difference and the only what matters is the intensity. You can see it by yourself, just measure the conditions of your players before and after a match using tactics with different intensity/mentality values but only don't use "go on holiday" or "instant result" to play a match because in this case your assistant manager makes substitutions and the result won't be accurate.
cptdoggo said: 5.7! Great, finally we have a 5.5+ tactic that doesnt murder your players stamina. Expand
I really don't want to be a party breaker but the intensity and not the mentality is what makes impact on the conditions and your latest tactics have the same intensity as any other top rated tactics.
There's only any meaningful is when the intensity bar is green/blue/red. I mean for the start you need to reduce the intensity to blue at least to see any difference. and if you can reduce to "green" then it will even better but there's no difference at all between red bars.
FMAdept said: I don't think that we should spend more time with this team shape, because Zealot already brought the best out of a 433 wide DM imho. Expand
Perfection has no limits, everything can improved... I guess
99357 said: all the player's pi are exactly the same except the changed roles and the set pieces are all 100% same, no way the set pieces can be 100% same if it's not a copy of that tactic this is obviously a tweak of snow-halation Expand
But snow-halation set pieces are from ZaZ's tactics
I played with Bayern Munich and had only 1 lose in the league and the team scored 127 and conceded only 21.
Champions Cup Final vs Liverpool
I'm sure what he said means "never"
https://fm-arena.com/thread/2276-changes-in-the-representation-of-the-tests-results/
Probably, the wingers or the central defenders.
I concede twice less on Positive than on Very Attacking.
It's going strong!
No doubts, it's a great tactic and you'll do better that the prediction with any team.
I just tell my experience. I would bother with an "exotic" formation only if it promises a head above result than any other tactics and I think most people also think that way. I really wanted to try this tactic but it's was hard to find a team that fits it. I found few teams that somehow fits it, I mean they had enough central midfielders but even that the central midfielders were a way worse than the wingers or inside forwards. Also, it's obvious that speed matters a lot in FM but there're very few fast central midfielders in the game.
Once more, it's a great tactic, unfortunately, the formation is a bit exotic.
Nice score!
But unfortunately, it's very hard to find a team that fits this formation. Most team have Inside Forwards and Wingers and they don't have enough central midfielders, especially, very quality central midfielders so I doubt it'll be very popular
Obviously, Team Cohesion has some influence but I don't think it's responsible for the results' variation we see in the test league. If you remove all the RNG factors from the game then it still will be that random because the game is that random and you can't do anything about it, you can just slight reduce the RNG by eliminating as many as possible random factors but still it'll quite random because the developers from SI want the game to be like that.
Do you have any idea what’s causing quite some fluctuation between the same tests ?
Take Tika taka for example , in a test their b team is almost relegated while in the test after it , it’s 2nd after team A.
Given that all circumstances are equal , I don’t expect quite such a large difference in results ( 50 points ? )
I’m not a data analyst person so I don’t really have an answer to this.
Look at this - https://fm-arena.com/thread/442-my-attempt-to-measure-the-game-rng-random-number-generator/
I have yet to fully test this, but I think position/role makes much more of a difference. In my tests, my F9 was always 200-300 condition more tired than the AF's. I'll give some averages as an example for my 3 attacking positions.
F9-Support + 2x IF-Attack = 6700 Avg. Condition after match, with F9 scoring around 7200 and IF around 6400-6500.
F9-Support + 2x AF-Attack = 7400 Avg. Condition after match, with F9 scoring around 7200 and AF around 7500-7600.
Positive
Very Attacking
EDIT: Conclusion is that some combinations are superior this year, at least from the perspective of Stamina, and because condition affects performance so much, I would say even overall, since strikers conserve Condition so much better than attacking wingers and wide positions in general suffer the most from stamina issues, followed closely by CM and DM/AM.
That sounds very interesting!
A very good work here!
I know the difference in the visual slider is minimal, but in game, positive vs very attacking difference in stamina is huge
Actually, it can be measured and I've done such tests many times. The mentality makes no difference and the only what matters is the intensity. You can see it by yourself, just measure the conditions of your players before and after a match using tactics with different intensity/mentality values but only don't use "go on holiday" or "instant result" to play a match because in this case your assistant manager makes substitutions and the result won't be accurate.
I really don't want to be a party breaker but the intensity and not the mentality is what makes impact on the conditions and your latest tactics have the same intensity as any other top rated tactics.
There's only any meaningful is when the intensity bar is green/blue/red. I mean for the start you need to reduce the intensity to blue at least to see any difference.
Thank you @RalfRangnick and @ZaZ !
I agree, this is a very solid tactic.
I've tried it with Man Utd and it did great.
You might be right.
Perfection has no limits, everything can improved... I guess
this is obviously a tweak of snow-halation
But snow-halation set pieces are from ZaZ's tactics