FMHeisenberg said: New here. Question: Do you just go on holiday to test the instructions or did you actually play all the games? Expand Welcome FMHeisenberg,
It's a topic we haven't covered much, and I think it's important in knowing which traits encourage or discourage players from doing more or less of the moves we define in PIs. This is an early work and of course anyone can add their knowledge so that we have a "list" of the best traits for each PI.
As far as I know the Players Traits besides having conflicts with some PIs it is also important to mention that most of them are based on player positions and not in general. So as an example, 'Gets Into Opposition Area' won't work on defenders and so on. So here are my initial findings:
When Opposition Has The Ball
When Team Has The Ball
When Player Has The Ball
*Where there is this " -- " doesn't necessarily mean that there is nothing good/bad. I remind you that it is in the early stages. **There are some PIs that I didn't include because I didn't find a Trait until this moment that fits.
A Smile said: We have so many test tactics that a lot of times we can't pay too much attention to the changes in some details .In my previous test of the 424 Frog Whirl, the results of removing the "Pass Into Space" setting were better, with a difference of 58 and 54 points. But there are also examples of the opposite. In these two days of online qualifying matches, I found that the defensive midfielders were often tackled out of the ball, so I added the forward press command, and then removed the "Pass Into Space", and performed very well in the traditional 433 tactics. A normal traditional 433 tactic is always difficult to play in either solo or online matches. But a good 4-3-3 is incredibly powerful and probably the most controlled formation, even though it never gets a higher score on a single vacation test. So I gave it a try in the Brazilian box and got my personal best goal difference so far in my holiday test. Of course it's not the one I uploaded, I always test it at least 2-3 times. Expand I hope it goes well because I've heard from others that "Pass Into Space" especially in the "Attacking" mentality doesn't help that much. Maybe because there are no moves into space by the players or maybe because in a more aggressive mentality they are already doing it and activating the instruction to do it more than they should. We'll see!
White Europe said: I like all this tests done on this site, all helpful threads done by this outstanding FM players, but i don't think that speed is most important for every position: CM, DM or CD can be 11/10 pace acceleration, having 14/15 other important atributes for their position and perform better than just fast players. I think following atributes highlighted by FM can do best job. Expand Look here - https://fm-arena.com/thread/5351-should-you-follow-the-highlighted-attributes-of-the-roles/
MrGreen said: @dzek done, please test Expand Now you have an increased chance of your tactic being queued up for testing. It's up to the FM-Arena's staff.
MrGreen said: Hey @dzek - the results are in the comment after the OP - here is the tactic screenshot too. Expand MrGreen said: @dzek the results are here mate Expand Just put the required screenshots in the OP and include your changes too. Its not for me but for anyone to see your tactic.
Bogeyman said: @MrGreen, I guess @dzek meant that you should "Edit" the opening post and add those screenshots to it. Expand Not actually. We can't see what instructions he used to his tactic and also the results.
Please give me a method for calculating the average CA of this team. How do I add, subtract, multiply, and divide to get the average CA ? Expand Find the sum of all your players CA and then divide the number with the amount of your players.
I would like to make an input here on a change to the Testing League that would probably help even more to minimize the "luck" factor.
There are 5 controlled teams and 5 AI teams. These teams all play each other and it is here that I would like to suggest since the league has this structure then it would be nice if each team played the same team in all fixtures until the end. I think that way the AI team would adapt even better to our tactics and I think that would reduce the "luck" factor.
*I'm leaving a picture of a reply given by Jack Joyce (SI dev) on how you can reduce statistical error(luck) within the game. What do you think?
It would be nice to have @Zippo's point of view here. Expand @Zippo Would you like to apply this to the FM-Arena Tactic Testing League? I can create the custom fixtures for you. I also want to add a few more things that could make it even more "full" in terms of options with more matches per run. So each run would include 1,100 matches so 3,300 for every 3 runs and so on.
Details below: 1. Increase AI teams from 5 to 11 and each team will have 1 of the 11 tactics present in the game. The reason is to have our tactics play against all tactics in the game regardless if one tactic is better than another by nature in the game. Like 4-2-3-1 compared to 4-3-2-1 for example.
2. Increase human controlled teams to 11 from 5 so each team can play 1 of the 11 AI teams always until the end of the season.
3. No Staff for any team - this prevents Team Talks / Shouts being given during the match. (EBFM)
4. Each team will play 100 matches per season. • ((22 teams x 100 matches) = 2.200 matches per run for all the teams together) / 2 = 1.100 matches (for human controlled teams)
bwig said: Also IF right side is less effective than IF left and the left one would also be the strongest player in the game most of the time. Expand This was something I noticed too and I think it's because of the CM that in the attack he enters the space where the IF would move. In FM24 the IF and IW when another player enters their position in attack (ie AMCR/L) then they remain more wide and act somewhat like Wingers.
pixar said: This makes things even more ridiculous. Expand I think it would be a better idea to check the RNG first and then everything else, but we're already in the process.
pixar said: 1200 matches are played. I remember that with this new test league method, which was changed in the middle of last year, the RNG factor decreased by 1 point. This conclusion felt so pointless. Expand Attribute tests are tested in 2.400 matches.
sponsorkindest said: I don’t think the end of the season one file was shared for FM 24, by default all players in testing league had around 13 pace in FM 23, so we are looking at a team that has around 18 pace right? Expand Not exactly. Some positions have 15 and some others 13.
I want to point out some information about the team instructions that some may have missed. It applies to old and new players of the game.
The game has several instructions so the user can create many combinations and sometimes they can be confusing. Either start with a preset tactical style (Control Possession, Gegenpress, etc.) or build something from scratch, several times we don't know what each instruction affects in general. Within the 'Match Plans' we can see that the instructions are divided into separate categories such as - Possession, Penetration, Shape, Defending and General.
Below I have listed them in each category and what each category means:
Possession - These are the instructions that will determine how your team manages possession of the ball. - Approach Play - Pass Into Space / Play Out Of Defence - Mixed Crosses / Float Crosses / Whipped Crosses / Low Crosses - Final Third - Work Ball Into Box / Hit Early Crosses / Shoot On Sight - Dribbling - Run At Defence / Dribble Less - Passing Directness - Much Shorter / Shorter / Standard / Slightly More Direct / Much More Direct
Penetration - These are the instructions that will determine how you move the ball from GK to final third. - Overlaps / Underlaps - Focus Play - Down The Left or/and Right Flank(s) or Through The Middle - GK in Possession - Distribute Quickly / Slow Pace Down - Distribute To Area / Player / Position - Distribution Type - Roll It Out / Throw It Long / Take Short Kicks / Take Long Kicks
Shape - These are the instructions that will determine your team's shape in and out of possession. - Attacking Width - Counter / Hold Shape - Defensive Line - Step Up More
Defending - These are the instructions that will determine how your team behave out of possession. - Line Of Engagement - Low Block / Mid Block / High Press - Trigger Press - Prevent Short GK Distribution - Tackling - Get Stuck In / Stay On Feet - Drop Off More - Counter-Press / Regroup
General - These instructions are general guidelines for your team to follow in all aspects of the game. - Time Wasting - Tempo - Play for Set Pieces - Creative Freedom - Be More Expressive / Disciplined - Pressing Trap - Trap Inside / Outside - Cross Engagement - Stop / Invite Crosses
*If anyone can enrich this thread with exactly what each instruction does or roughly does then it would help tremendously everyone.
Zeyad said: You can see whether the players are "low" or "fresh" if you add the fatigue column. However I still suspect there are degrees to "fresh" (for example from 1000 to 600) which also make a difference to the results and there is no way to know them withuot an external tool on the in game editor. Similar to condition Expand Negative number (-500) here means “fresh” and “need rest” (601 - 1000)
letsgo9 said: I meant by actually playing the game. I found out that balanced is way superior and attacking is situational. But this is just my opinion, of course. Expand That may be the case, yes. My view is that all mentalities can work but the more increased the more you can expect from your team at home and away matches(goals, shots etc). The secret here is to balance each mentality accordingly which for me is the bet.
Another thing that seems to be true in FM is that the more you invite pressure the more goals your team will concede.
letsgo9 said: Definitelly something to think about. But when actually playing games, mainly if u r a underdog team, balanced mentality seems way superior than attacking. Expand But we could have seen tactics with an "Attacking" mentality concede fewer goals than other "Balanced" tactics. After some testing of my own, I have found what is the best mentality in order: (in terms of PPG)
1. Attacking 2. Positive 3. Very Attacking 4. Balanced 5. Defensive 6. Cautious 7. Very Defensive
Welcome FMHeisenberg,
Look here - https://fm-arena.com/thread/2712-fm23-fm-arena-tactic-testing-league/
It's a topic we haven't covered much, and I think it's important in knowing which traits encourage or discourage players from doing more or less of the moves we define in PIs. This is an early work and of course anyone can add their knowledge so that we have a "list" of the best traits for each PI.
As far as I know the Players Traits besides having conflicts with some PIs it is also important to mention that most of them are based on player positions and not in general. So as an example, 'Gets Into Opposition Area' won't work on defenders and so on. So here are my initial findings:
When Opposition Has The Ball
When Team Has The Ball
When Player Has The Ball
*Where there is this " -- " doesn't necessarily mean that there is nothing good/bad. I remind you that it is in the early stages.
**There are some PIs that I didn't include because I didn't find a Trait until this moment that fits.
Thank you
I hope it goes well because I've heard from others that "Pass Into Space" especially in the "Attacking" mentality doesn't help that much. Maybe because there are no moves into space by the players or maybe because in a more aggressive mentality they are already doing it and activating the instruction to do it more than they should. We'll see!
https://fm-arena.com/thread/7086-testing-preset-tactics/
@Telespiza is the king!
I think following atributes highlighted by FM can do best job.
Look here - https://fm-arena.com/thread/5351-should-you-follow-the-highlighted-attributes-of-the-roles/
I have already check it and i think it doesn't change anything in the long run but I'm curious to see the results.
Here are my own:
424 QuadroWave X-4 (Tweak) - https://fm-arena.com/thread/7334-424-quadrowave-x-4-tweak-run-at-defense/
iBox V1.9b - https://fm-arena.com/thread/7237-fm24-ibox-v1-9b-by-dzek/
Now you have an increased chance of your tactic being queued up for testing. It's up to the FM-Arena's staff.
MrGreen said: @dzek the results are here mate
Just put the required screenshots in the OP and include your changes too. Its not for me but for anyone to see your tactic.
Not actually. We can't see what instructions he used to his tactic and also the results.
Please read this again - https://fm-arena.com/thread/2733-how-to-get-your-tactic-tested/ and include the required screenshots on your OP.
Thank you.
Please give me a method for calculating the average CA of this team.
How do I add, subtract, multiply, and divide to get the average CA ?
Find the sum of all your players CA and then divide the number with the amount of your players.
I would like to make an input here on a change to the Testing League that would probably help even more to minimize the "luck" factor.
There are 5 controlled teams and 5 AI teams. These teams all play each other and it is here that I would like to suggest since the league has this structure then it would be nice if each team played the same team in all fixtures until the end. I think that way the AI team would adapt even better to our tactics and I think that would reduce the "luck" factor.
*I'm leaving a picture of a reply given by Jack Joyce (SI dev) on how you can reduce statistical error(luck) within the game.
What do you think?
It would be nice to have @Zippo's point of view here.
@Zippo Would you like to apply this to the FM-Arena Tactic Testing League? I can create the custom fixtures for you. I also want to add a few more things that could make it even more "full" in terms of options with more matches per run. So each run would include 1,100 matches so 3,300 for every 3 runs and so on.
Details below:
1. Increase AI teams from 5 to 11 and each team will have 1 of the 11 tactics present in the game. The reason is to have our tactics play against all tactics in the game regardless if one tactic is better than another by nature in the game. Like 4-2-3-1 compared to 4-3-2-1 for example.
2. Increase human controlled teams to 11 from 5 so each team can play 1 of the 11 AI teams always until the end of the season.
3. No Staff for any team - this prevents Team Talks / Shouts being given during the match. (EBFM)
4. Each team will play 100 matches per season.
• ((22 teams x 100 matches) = 2.200 matches per run for all the teams together) / 2 = 1.100 matches (for human controlled teams)
This was something I noticed too and I think it's because of the CM that in the attack he enters the space where the IF would move. In FM24 the IF and IW when another player enters their position in attack (ie AMCR/L) then they remain more wide and act somewhat like Wingers.
I think it would be a better idea to check the RNG first and then everything else, but we're already in the process.
Attribute tests are tested in 2.400 matches.
Not exactly. Some positions have 15 and some others 13.
I want to point out some information about the team instructions that some may have missed. It applies to old and new players of the game.
The game has several instructions so the user can create many combinations and sometimes they can be confusing. Either start with a preset tactical style (Control Possession, Gegenpress, etc.) or build something from scratch, several times we don't know what each instruction affects in general. Within the 'Match Plans' we can see that the instructions are divided into separate categories such as - Possession, Penetration, Shape, Defending and General.
Below I have listed them in each category and what each category means:
Possession - These are the instructions that will determine how your team manages possession of the ball.
- Approach Play - Pass Into Space / Play Out Of Defence
- Mixed Crosses / Float Crosses / Whipped Crosses / Low Crosses
- Final Third - Work Ball Into Box / Hit Early Crosses / Shoot On Sight
- Dribbling - Run At Defence / Dribble Less
- Passing Directness - Much Shorter / Shorter / Standard / Slightly More Direct / Much More Direct
Penetration - These are the instructions that will determine how you move the ball from GK to final third.
- Overlaps / Underlaps
- Focus Play - Down The Left or/and Right Flank(s) or Through The Middle
- GK in Possession - Distribute Quickly / Slow Pace Down
- Distribute To Area / Player / Position
- Distribution Type - Roll It Out / Throw It Long / Take Short Kicks / Take Long Kicks
Shape - These are the instructions that will determine your team's shape in and out of possession.
- Attacking Width
- Counter / Hold Shape
- Defensive Line
- Step Up More
Defending - These are the instructions that will determine how your team behave out of possession.
- Line Of Engagement - Low Block / Mid Block / High Press
- Trigger Press
- Prevent Short GK Distribution
- Tackling - Get Stuck In / Stay On Feet
- Drop Off More
- Counter-Press / Regroup
General - These instructions are general guidelines for your team to follow in all aspects of the game.
- Time Wasting
- Tempo
- Play for Set Pieces
- Creative Freedom - Be More Expressive / Disciplined
- Pressing Trap - Trap Inside / Outside
- Cross Engagement - Stop / Invite Crosses
*If anyone can enrich this thread with exactly what each instruction does or roughly does then it would help tremendously everyone.
Negative number (-500) here means “fresh” and “need rest” (601 - 1000)
That may be the case, yes. My view is that all mentalities can work but the more increased the more you can expect from your team at home and away matches(goals, shots etc). The secret here is to balance each mentality accordingly which for me is the bet.
Another thing that seems to be true in FM is that the more you invite pressure the more goals your team will concede.
But we could have seen tactics with an "Attacking" mentality concede fewer goals than other "Balanced" tactics.
After some testing of my own, I have found what is the best mentality in order:
(in terms of PPG)
1. Attacking
2. Positive
3. Very Attacking
4. Balanced
5. Defensive
6. Cautious
7. Very Defensive