kvasir said: 16 out of 100 as a weight in Genie, not as a value out of 20. Expand
Sorry I forget they're lumped in with the other attributes.
I believe the attributes you can see on the screen when playing FM are out of 100, hence GS is. But all hidden attributes are out of 20. I dont know why consistency and important matches are in with the visible attributes.
So I wouldn't set them at all or use a filter, because I think its another problem with GS. But easy to fix/avoid and you can still see the values when looking at players.
kvasir said: So consistency gets nothing at all? I've got mine at 16 in GenieScout, based on the FM-Arena attribute testing. Expand
16/20 or filtered at 16? Both would be way too high. Its worth ten points?
I wouldn't set any values for attributes that dont go upto 100. By all means filter for them. For example I do injury proneness maximum 17, pressure minimum 5 and professionalism 12-15.
You could set consistency at 5/20 if you wish in the filter. I dont bother. Of course I dont want players who have 1, but it never seems to be too big a deal if they're around 8.
iezzex said: So heres my question If i still win, but i wanna find a keeper that actually saves, what i shall look for Rn Chevalier looks good for me, best keeper for me yet, but he's old in my save, so i wanna find or make a good regen, waht to look for? Expand
If you use the genie scout rating file I posted on the page before that will show you the top keepers and who will be the best in the future.
iezzex said: Is it all about team overall performance or not? Cuz what i've seen on my long real save, as example, Courtouis were bad (with my high def line at least) Yeah i won alot, and gd was insane, but he's avg rating was like 6.8 or something like that haha Expand
Keepers wont get a high rating if they aren't doing much. And you will concede. Ratings in FM are based on goals, assists and keepers struggle to get 9-10 ratings. They can make ten saves and still only be in the 8's.
GeorgeFloydOverdosed said: Interesting that you give all hidden attributes 0 weighting even though you claim Genie Scout isn't bugged.
According to those weights, Donnarumma is ranked 9th, while Muric is 202nd.
Meanwhile, actual Premier League test results in reality:
Muric - 3rd 6.81, Sacked March (10th) 6.67, Sacked Febuary (10th) 6.78 = Average 7.666th 6.75 Oblak - 6th 6.87, 7th 6.76, 1st 7.03 = Average 4.666th 6.88 Donnarumma - Sacked November (16th) 6.51, Sacked December (7th) 6.83, 5th 6.91 = Average 9.333th 6.75
For the outfield, the big problems come up where he strays from convention. For instance, he gives 0 weighting to concentration for STs, resulting in this player being rank 40th ST (classed alongside Kane and de Bruyne):
He is limited by his low concentration. I have him ranked 114th alongside Danny Ings at West Ham, rather than Kane at Bayern.
He has Mbappe rated higher than Haaland. You can see on Youtube or my own test results that Haaland does significantly better than Mbappe when Mbappe is put in the same division.
And this is whom he reckons is the 7th best DC in the world:
This is what you get when you weight dribbling at 0, composure at 5, and strength at 50.. or conversely, when you put pace/acc to 100 and don't factor in other attributes properly.
For comparison, this is what my weightings say is the 8th best DC in the world (John Stones was 7th; a little too old to do):
Zouma isn't bad, I have him at 65th. But he's not an absolute top player.. he's a West Ham player. Expand
Corrrr this is some tantrum. I love you way you are disingenuous or just flat out lie in a lot of this. Its hilarious.
Genie scout isn't bugged in the way you continuously made out. It isn't giving Mbappe a rating of 70 or whatever it was because its bugged. Its because your ratings file is awful. I've always known it cant handle the hidden attributes and minus values. I posted several times thats why your file was wrong. You still dont understand the game or GS.
You keep saying and believing your tests are valid hahaha. They aren't. Other people have said to you they aren't. Quoting a video on youtube from someone who was probably trying to become a content creator is embarrassing. How is it any evidence at all??? Whats worse is you're conducting the same tests thinking they're good haahaha.
TS has 10 for concentration. I put the file together in 5 minutes. But forwards dont need it and top players will have it anyway. Its a defensive attribute. Mbappe is not rated higher than Haaland, so thats a lie. Why do you have to lie in response? I did need to increase TS weight so thanks for pointing that out though.
Zouma is top quality. There was a guy on here a few years ago who was very knowledgeable about the game, but a total prick. He loved Zouma at centre back. Saying he's a West Ham player means nothing. David Ozoh is a Palace player. He's often a top DM for cheap. Not always the same player every save though. There has and always will be players from smaller clubs who excel in FM.
Again do you even play this game? As I said from day one, you're a wanna be. But you know nothing.
Glennson said: @keithb Can you put the GS ratings file you are currently using? Thanks! Expand
Here you go. It will make the game very easy if used with a top tactic and set pieces which score a lot. Thats one of the main things about high jumping reach is those players will score a lot from set pieces.
TS weight should be 107. Haaland is the best player in the game by far. So his potential rating should be as close to 100 as possible.
You can use the weight to stretch the ratings. Especially in long term saves there can be a lack of quality in some positions. If you change the weight so the best players are close to 100 potential that can help. Just remember they are the top players in those positions, not in the game itself.
Arijanet Muric - 128 CA, 69.23%, Burnley Jan Oblak - 171 CA, 69.13%, Real Madrid Gianluigi Donnarumma - 161 CA, 65.84%, Paris SG
In each test I have replaced the GKs at Manchester City with 2 duplicates of the player. First, dropping them into my team of meta players and using Knap tactic that would normally come ~5th:
Muric - 3rd 6.81, Sacked March (10th) 6.67, Sacked Febuary (10th) 6.78 = Average 7.666th 6.75 Oblak - 6th 6.87, 7th 6.76, 1st 7.03 = Average 4.666th 6.88 Donnarumma - Sacked November (16th) 6.51, Sacked December (7th) 6.83, 5th 6.91 = Average 9.333th 6.75
Next, putting them a default Manchester City team and selecting the default 424 gegenpress tactic:
So we can see that in normal play, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between these three players. When we put them in a struggling team with less variation allowing us to isolate the GK differences more clearly, all three hold up decently, but clearly Oblak has an edge on Muric, and Muric has an edge on Donnarumma.
To clarify just how much of an edge Oblak has, I have also tested the highest rated GK (Marc-Andre ter Stegen, 175 CA, 75.17%, Barcelona) to compare:
ter Stegen - Sacked November (17th) 6.60, Sacked April (11th) 6.64, 5th 6.88, 4th 6.80, 6th 7.05 = Average 8.6th 6.79
Comparing ter Stegen to the template, the two areas he is deficient in are Aerial Reach and Pace. In fact, a close look at Oblak's stats shows he fits the template better. The reason ter Stegen is rated higher is because of some very high values for key mentals and generally higher physicals. As mentioned before, this is the inherent downside of weightings, it can't tell the difference between 1 pace 20 acc and 10 pace 10 acc.
Comparing ter Stegen and Muric, the only advantages Muric has are Aerial Reach (16 > 13) and Jumping Reach (18 > 16). ter Stegen absolutely dominates him in other areas. Yet we see that Muric performs as good or slightly better. For Oblak vs. ter Stegen it is largely the same story; ter Stegen mogs Oblak in everything except Aerial Reach and Handling.
The conclusion I draw is that Aerial Reach has been slightly underweighted.
It is worth noting that if we assessed by passing, first touch, and whatnot, then ter Stegen would be rated even higher above Oblak and Muric.
I know from testing that Aerial Reach is the least forgiving GK attribute, and you can see evidence of me believing this here where I give Aerial Reach the highest rating of 80 in a 'weighted weights' version of my file. You can see that by contrast I give Reflexes only 28 and Jumping Reach 32. So ter Stegen going under the 14 minimum is pretty clearly to me the cause of his poor performance. The problem with the weighted weights is that they simply didn't perform better in comparison testing - it's not the end of the story, I just haven't progressed further with it yet.
Now hopefully that settles the facts of the matter.
I would now like to address the theoretical part.
1) I see ongoing conflation of two separate things. Criticizing basing weights on what gets ~5th-7th instead of 1st is one thing, criticizing that certain attributes are weighted at zero is another. They are two separate things. In regards to weighting useless attributes at zero, I stand firm on this - there is no '1%' gain.. there is 0% gain, or negative gain. Now I hear you, you say 'just suppose it is 1%, what's the harm in giving it a little weight?' - the harm would be that if start weighting all these worthless attributes even a little, you would end up with 36 year olds being recommended as 1st-choice strikers.
2) I did not wake up and decide to aim for 5th place in my making my latest weightings file. As you'd expect, I aimed for 1st. But what I quickly came to realize is that coming 1st is only feasible if all your players have 18+ pace/acc, or otherwise simply spend a billion dollars on standard players that will win without using the speed exploit. Now you could say, well that's how it has to be. But the conclusion I arrived at is that GS ratings are kind of pointless if there aren't any players you can buy or even exist. That 18 pace/acc requirement I mentioned.. it's not just that, you need to pair it with say high drib and jumping reach and a few other things; high pace/acc alone is not enough. So I thought, ok what can we realistically get this pace/acc requirement down to.. and that turned out to be ~14, which so happened to manage ~5th. 13 = relegated, and 17 = no win. You could argue that I should pick 15 for 4th, or 16 for 3rd, that's a fair point of debate. But you are not aware of the nuance of it if you believe that calibrating weightings towards ensuring 5th means they ensure 5th more than they ensure 1st. Here are the parts of the puzzle you are missing:
- Generally speaking, '20' pace is worth no more than '18' pace in the Premier League. If you have 18, you win all games. If you have 20, you win all games. - I have tested every such threshold. As you can see with the GKs above, '18' concentration shows negligible benefit compared to '13'. With some attributes, such as dribbling, it's generally the higher the better (linear). With Aerial Reach, it has a concrete minimum ('14' ) but quickly diminishing returns above that minimum. - If I weight attribute X at '15', that does not mean it is weighted to get 5th. It is weighted to get 1st so long as the cost is not too great. In the end, only a few attributes are weighted below 1st. These are: pace, acc, jump, drib and perhaps another I have forgotten. - If you say 'well let's boost pace, acc, jump, drib to 100 weighting!' then you would end up with key technical and mentals falling out of favor, and the whole optimized structure falling apart. It is more important to get 12 concentration instead of 11 concentration, than 17 pace instead of 16 pace. Obviously this gets too complicated to fully think out, but I have a hunch it's why my 'weighted weightings' did worse than the standard weightings in my comparison test, and hence why it's given me current pause for thought on the matter. - If you say 'to hell with the 'structure'! give me copious amounts of pace, acc, jump and drib at 100 with some passing/tackling slop on top and be done with it.. keithb, give me your ratings file!', then you end up with bloated players on top of the list that fall short in some key regard. Expand
Where do you start? Your testing of keepers is a joke surely? It doesn't prove anything, there are no facts lol. Muric is shit. The best three keepers are Courtois, Allison and Ter Stegen. Then you have Martinez and Meret. You've taken this testing from someone on youtube lol. You've also said top clubs buy these players and Courtois wins awards so he must be good haha. The awards are based on reputation mainly haha. If you use the database with Courtois injued, then Lunin or whatever his name is would win it. Because he's playing for real madrid.
Nobody wants 12 concentration over 11, rather than 17 over 16 pace. Anyone that does is clueless about football manager. Oh thats you.
The numbers I posted are excellent from day one, for newgens, for retro databases etc. Because they are the numbers that work best in the match engine. Not in your imaginary world.
GeorgeFloydOverdosed said: Passing, first touch, long shots, and technique have negligible benefit or even possibly negative correlation for outfield players.
If you don't want to take my word for it, refer to HarvestGreen's data on this:
You're also not attempting a fair example. No players are going to have 20 passing, first touch, long shots, and technique. Nor is a player going to have 20 dribbling and 5 in those other stats. Expand
You're quoting testing from someone that contradicts your testing? His keeper testing has technique at 0% and jumping reach at 1%. Aren't they two of your top attributes for a keeper? That poor person above using a keeper with 9 reflexes and struggling. Probably the rest of their team isn't that good either using your file.
Let's look at some basic numbers that anyone can plug into genie scout: Full backs 100/100 speed. 60-70 stamina and work rate. 40-50 for anticipation, concentration and balance. 30 determination (same for all players). Agility and dribbling 20-30.
Centre backs is 100 for speed and jumping reach. 50 anticipation, concentration and balance. 40 strength. 30 determination. 20-30 work rate and stamina.
DM's are similar to FB. Can add long shots say 10-20. Maybe decrease dribbling. As jumping reach say 20 it really isn't essential. But a physical king like David ozoh will do well.
10's and wingers are similar also. It's 100/100 speed. Dribbling 65/80. They want higher agility50-65, lower concentration say 10. Add some finishing 10-20, composure 10. Stamina and work rate 30-40. Jumping reach is ZERO for both.
Fast striker similar to wingers and 10's. Increase finishing to 40. Maybe higher composure. Jumping reach ZERO.
Target striker 90/90 speed. Jumping reach 100. Strength and balance 50-60, heading 15, dribbling ZERO. Stamina and work rate 30-40.
Every position determination 30. All players are roughly 40 for balance as well. centre backs and ts higher. 50-60
Keepers 100 reflexes, 60 agility, 30 for the other attributes that harvest and FM arena say added something. Not jumping reach (10) or technique (ZERO). Aerial reach yes 30.
That's not complete it's from memory. When you search filter injury proneness max 17, pressure minimum 5 and professionalism 12, but ideally 15. Buy young players with high genie scout ratings and/or high pa. Some 150 players can be monsters but in general the higher pa players will always be better. Not the ones with very low speed to start with. You can change the weightings to 105 for each position. Add the start of the game there is a lack of top quality keepers and centre backs so you can increase these to 110. But you don't want these weighting too far apart and Haaland is a 100% player. Plus when searching for say 90+ players GS wont always show players that are over 100.
If you really want to cheese the game don't start with that many leagues then add Belgium, Spain div2, Netherlands, Italy div2, Portugal div2 and see the players it populates the next season lol. High pa and dirt cheap. Especially in Spain.
For the person who doesn't like to play with real players. Start with Hong Kong only and holiday ten seasons. Then add the leagues you want, remove Hong Kong and most players won't be real.
The table you posted also shows that speed, surprisingly, is twice as good as any other attribute. Who knew. Well not you.
treath said: he blindly trust this prem 1.0 ratings that show pace is more importante for a GK than reflexes and his gk are a phisical monster.
the problem is people trust this ratings blindly i made tests with this rating with gsscout and it show goalkeepers with 100 or 110 pa better than great goalkeepers just because they are tall and have enough aerial reach and jumping reach to surpass lack of reflexes, 1-1, etc. Expand
It's some of the maddest stuff I've seen concerning football manager. We've back to speed isn't king/op, reflexes aren't important for keepers and jumping reach is now essential in every position. You can literally play for a few seasons with wingers and 10's that have jumping reach under 5 and they will be your best players through goals, assists and average rating. For example Messi in a retro database will get an average rating above 8 playing 10 or RW. But bozo is telling people you should play Soucek there. Sometimes I tell myself he's not serious and this is all some joke, because I'm not sure what level of reality I'm supposed to be operating on. But he's deadly serious. I don't think the words even exist to describe how crazy this all is. And people believe him 😂😂
Now I'm not an expert, but could it be that if the most important attribute for keepers is 9 out of 20, this could lead to them being crap? Probably not, but just a mad idea I had.
GeorgeFloydOverdosed said: are getting picked up by higher clubs which are strong indications it's on the right track. Expand
You really need to stop typing this stuff out. The AI is horrendous at squad building and buying the right players. It is based off ca/pa, reputation and other things. Not the attributes needed for the match engine. A team will have three keepers and they're all shit. Or they will play the worst one of the three. Just like when you do quick pick and your assistant picks some of your worst players to start.
Using one of the biggest faults in the game to validate your testing again shows how bad your knowledge of this game is. Its staggering
BrushlessPlaymaker said: Ok, we get it. You don't like the guy. But why are you so obsessed with him anyway? Is there something else you want to talk about? Expand
Its just a bit of fun. This is how Bozo and I talk to each other. He tells me im pissing in my own face for suggesting stamina is important for full backs and dm's and I have a laugh about his testing and delusion. All ok.
I dont think there is anything else I want to talk about. How about you?
The more you post the more obvious it is that hardly know anything about the game. Nor do you understand GS. Why dont you use the weight for each position? It widens the skill gap for a start and then you have players nearer 100, rather than capped at 80. There is no positive leaving it at 100.
Your ratings aren't based on solid data. What was your control? You used the best tactics and maybe set pieces? You would rather have a centre mid on the wings than prime Messi or Robben!! You'd rather have Kane and other slow strikers up front over Mbappe. Its insane you think you've done well. Full backs, 10,'s, wingers and fast strikers dont need jumping reach at all!!
Thanks for the percentages ratings, they were a great laugh.
Frimpong is 5'6 and fast. Is that not very short in fm24?
test attributes in isolation + hundreds of possible attribute combinations over thousands of games > record best performing combination of attributes > translate to Genie Scout weightings
not GS weightings > GS Ratings > record winning combination of attributes
So you are confused when you believe my ranking of Mbappe is tied to how well I understand Genie Scout's formulae for hidden attributes.
The translation into weightings works accurately for FM26 scoring system, it is specifically a Genie Scout problem. What FM26 scoring system lacks is the ability to weight hidden attributes.
It is also not a matter of just work out what formula Genie Scout is using and then take that into account. Say it was that personality attributes are weighted at 50% of visible attributes. Ok, then we could just put 80 for pressure instead of 40. It is complicated, and perhaps even completely unworkable. The best way to use Genie Scout right now is to weight the visible attributes, and put filters on the hiddens. Expand
Bozo, bozo, bozo. I'm not confused haha. Previously, prior to your latest ratings, someone posted to say GS was doing something to skew the ratings. You linked their post in the last reply to me. But we know that was because you were entering scores for the hidden attributes. Now in premier league 1 that isn't the case. So why did you quote their post?
So the reason Mbappe scores so lowly is because of your testing. But anyone knows Mbappe is the best fast striker and certainly better than all the other strikers you rank above him. No one is choosing the many strikers you rate above him. He is only beaten by Haaland.
You severely undervalue speed and that's why he scores so lowly. It's your ratings, it has nothing to do with GS. I hope that clears up your confusion. You also overrate many attributes. You can literally set fast striker to 100/100 speed, 70 dribbling, 50 anticipation, 40 balance, 30 agility and works rate, 40 finishing and that's about it. Mbappe will be the top fast striker. Jumping reach should be 0. I'm sure I've missed one or two but that's about it.
Someone else also tried to inform you here, to which you responded that the bottom line for you is your motivation to 'blame the person who made the file'.
This is why I will not be responding to any more Mbappe rubbish from you. Expand
hahaha. Classic Bozo. So no answer then. What I said is true. Your ratings are awful as some people are starting to realise.....
Maybe Im just very lucky to I can get Mbappe to be the best fast striker in GS and you cant?
Whats also funny is we know, at least you should, that someone pointed out the ratings were wrong using the old file you posted. But that was because you didn't understand how to use hidden attributes in GS. It has no relevance at all to your premier league garbage file. Does it?
Sorry I forget they're lumped in with the other attributes.
I believe the attributes you can see on the screen when playing FM are out of 100, hence GS is. But all hidden attributes are out of 20. I dont know why consistency and important matches are in with the visible attributes.
So I wouldn't set them at all or use a filter, because I think its another problem with GS. But easy to fix/avoid and you can still see the values when looking at players.
16/20 or filtered at 16? Both would be way too high. Its worth ten points?
I wouldn't set any values for attributes that dont go upto 100. By all means filter for them. For example I do injury proneness maximum 17, pressure minimum 5 and professionalism 12-15.
You could set consistency at 5/20 if you wish in the filter. I dont bother. Of course I dont want players who have 1, but it never seems to be too big a deal if they're around 8.
If i still win, but i wanna find a keeper that actually saves, what i shall look for
Rn Chevalier looks good for me, best keeper for me yet, but he's old in my save, so i wanna find or make a good regen, waht to look for?
If you use the genie scout rating file I posted on the page before that will show you the top keepers and who will be the best in the future.
Cuz what i've seen on my long real save, as example, Courtouis were bad (with my high def line at least)
Yeah i won alot, and gd was insane, but he's avg rating was like 6.8 or something like that haha
Keepers wont get a high rating if they aren't doing much. And you will concede. Ratings in FM are based on goals, assists and keepers struggle to get 9-10 ratings. They can make ten saves and still only be in the 8's.
According to those weights, Donnarumma is ranked 9th, while Muric is 202nd.
Meanwhile, actual Premier League test results in reality:
Muric - 3rd 6.81, Sacked March (10th) 6.67, Sacked Febuary (10th) 6.78 = Average 7.666th 6.75
Oblak - 6th 6.87, 7th 6.76, 1st 7.03 = Average 4.666th 6.88
Donnarumma - Sacked November (16th) 6.51, Sacked December (7th) 6.83, 5th 6.91 = Average 9.333th 6.75
For the outfield, the big problems come up where he strays from convention. For instance, he gives 0 weighting to concentration for STs, resulting in this player being rank 40th ST (classed alongside Kane and de Bruyne):
He is limited by his low concentration. I have him ranked 114th alongside Danny Ings at West Ham, rather than Kane at Bayern.
He has Mbappe rated higher than Haaland. You can see on Youtube or my own test results that Haaland does significantly better than Mbappe when Mbappe is put in the same division.
And this is whom he reckons is the 7th best DC in the world:
This is what you get when you weight dribbling at 0, composure at 5, and strength at 50.. or conversely, when you put pace/acc to 100 and don't factor in other attributes properly.
For comparison, this is what my weightings say is the 8th best DC in the world (John Stones was 7th; a little too old to do):
Zouma isn't bad, I have him at 65th. But he's not an absolute top player.. he's a West Ham player.
Corrrr this is some tantrum. I love you way you are disingenuous or just flat out lie in a lot of this. Its hilarious.
Genie scout isn't bugged in the way you continuously made out. It isn't giving Mbappe a rating of 70 or whatever it was because its bugged. Its because your ratings file is awful. I've always known it cant handle the hidden attributes and minus values. I posted several times thats why your file was wrong. You still dont understand the game or GS.
You keep saying and believing your tests are valid hahaha. They aren't. Other people have said to you they aren't. Quoting a video on youtube from someone who was probably trying to become a content creator is embarrassing. How is it any evidence at all??? Whats worse is you're conducting the same tests thinking they're good haahaha.
TS has 10 for concentration. I put the file together in 5 minutes. But forwards dont need it and top players will have it anyway. Its a defensive attribute. Mbappe is not rated higher than Haaland, so thats a lie. Why do you have to lie in response? I did need to increase TS weight so thanks for pointing that out though.
Zouma is top quality. There was a guy on here a few years ago who was very knowledgeable about the game, but a total prick. He loved Zouma at centre back. Saying he's a West Ham player means nothing. David Ozoh is a Palace player. He's often a top DM for cheap. Not always the same player every save though. There has and always will be players from smaller clubs who excel in FM.
Again do you even play this game? As I said from day one, you're a wanna be. But you know nothing.
you just rename the fmf to grf
Here you go. It will make the game very easy if used with a top tactic and set pieces which score a lot. Thats one of the main things about high jumping reach is those players will score a lot from set pieces.
TS weight should be 107. Haaland is the best player in the game by far. So his potential rating should be as close to 100 as possible.
You can use the weight to stretch the ratings. Especially in long term saves there can be a lack of quality in some positions. If you change the weight so the best players are close to 100 potential that can help. Just remember they are the top players in those positions, not in the game itself.
Arijanet Muric - 128 CA, 69.23%, Burnley
Jan Oblak - 171 CA, 69.13%, Real Madrid
Gianluigi Donnarumma - 161 CA, 65.84%, Paris SG
In each test I have replaced the GKs at Manchester City with 2 duplicates of the player. First, dropping them into my team of meta players and using Knap tactic that would normally come ~5th:
Muric - 3rd 6.81, Sacked March (10th) 6.67, Sacked Febuary (10th) 6.78 = Average 7.666th 6.75
Oblak - 6th 6.87, 7th 6.76, 1st 7.03 = Average 4.666th 6.88
Donnarumma - Sacked November (16th) 6.51, Sacked December (7th) 6.83, 5th 6.91 = Average 9.333th 6.75
Next, putting them a default Manchester City team and selecting the default 424 gegenpress tactic:
Jan Oblak - 1st 6.99, 2nd 7.12
Muric - 2nd 7.00, 1st 6.94
Donnarumma - 1st 7.07, 1st 6.97
So we can see that in normal play, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between these three players. When we put them in a struggling team with less variation allowing us to isolate the GK differences more clearly, all three hold up decently, but clearly Oblak has an edge on Muric, and Muric has an edge on Donnarumma.
To clarify just how much of an edge Oblak has, I have also tested the highest rated GK (Marc-Andre ter Stegen, 175 CA, 75.17%, Barcelona) to compare:
ter Stegen - Sacked November (17th) 6.60, Sacked April (11th) 6.64, 5th 6.88, 4th 6.80, 6th 7.05 = Average 8.6th 6.79
Comparing ter Stegen to the template, the two areas he is deficient in are Aerial Reach and Pace. In fact, a close look at Oblak's stats shows he fits the template better. The reason ter Stegen is rated higher is because of some very high values for key mentals and generally higher physicals. As mentioned before, this is the inherent downside of weightings, it can't tell the difference between 1 pace 20 acc and 10 pace 10 acc.
Comparing ter Stegen and Muric, the only advantages Muric has are Aerial Reach (16 > 13) and Jumping Reach (18 > 16). ter Stegen absolutely dominates him in other areas. Yet we see that Muric performs as good or slightly better. For Oblak vs. ter Stegen it is largely the same story; ter Stegen mogs Oblak in everything except Aerial Reach and Handling.
The conclusion I draw is that Aerial Reach has been slightly underweighted.
It is worth noting that if we assessed by passing, first touch, and whatnot, then ter Stegen would be rated even higher above Oblak and Muric.
I know from testing that Aerial Reach is the least forgiving GK attribute, and you can see evidence of me believing this here where I give Aerial Reach the highest rating of 80 in a 'weighted weights' version of my file. You can see that by contrast I give Reflexes only 28 and Jumping Reach 32. So ter Stegen going under the 14 minimum is pretty clearly to me the cause of his poor performance. The problem with the weighted weights is that they simply didn't perform better in comparison testing - it's not the end of the story, I just haven't progressed further with it yet.
Now hopefully that settles the facts of the matter.
I would now like to address the theoretical part.
1) I see ongoing conflation of two separate things. Criticizing basing weights on what gets ~5th-7th instead of 1st is one thing, criticizing that certain attributes are weighted at zero is another. They are two separate things. In regards to weighting useless attributes at zero, I stand firm on this - there is no '1%' gain.. there is 0% gain, or negative gain. Now I hear you, you say 'just suppose it is 1%, what's the harm in giving it a little weight?' - the harm would be that if start weighting all these worthless attributes even a little, you would end up with 36 year olds being recommended as 1st-choice strikers.
2) I did not wake up and decide to aim for 5th place in my making my latest weightings file. As you'd expect, I aimed for 1st. But what I quickly came to realize is that coming 1st is only feasible if all your players have 18+ pace/acc, or otherwise simply spend a billion dollars on standard players that will win without using the speed exploit. Now you could say, well that's how it has to be. But the conclusion I arrived at is that GS ratings are kind of pointless if there aren't any players you can buy or even exist. That 18 pace/acc requirement I mentioned.. it's not just that, you need to pair it with say high drib and jumping reach and a few other things; high pace/acc alone is not enough. So I thought, ok what can we realistically get this pace/acc requirement down to.. and that turned out to be ~14, which so happened to manage ~5th. 13 = relegated, and 17 = no win. You could argue that I should pick 15 for 4th, or 16 for 3rd, that's a fair point of debate. But you are not aware of the nuance of it if you believe that calibrating weightings towards ensuring 5th means they ensure 5th more than they ensure 1st. Here are the parts of the puzzle you are missing:
- Generally speaking, '20' pace is worth no more than '18' pace in the Premier League. If you have 18, you win all games. If you have 20, you win all games.
- I have tested every such threshold. As you can see with the GKs above, '18' concentration shows negligible benefit compared to '13'. With some attributes, such as dribbling, it's generally the higher the better (linear). With Aerial Reach, it has a concrete minimum ('14' ) but quickly diminishing returns above that minimum.
- If I weight attribute X at '15', that does not mean it is weighted to get 5th. It is weighted to get 1st so long as the cost is not too great. In the end, only a few attributes are weighted below 1st. These are: pace, acc, jump, drib and perhaps another I have forgotten.
- If you say 'well let's boost pace, acc, jump, drib to 100 weighting!' then you would end up with key technical and mentals falling out of favor, and the whole optimized structure falling apart. It is more important to get 12 concentration instead of 11 concentration, than 17 pace instead of 16 pace. Obviously this gets too complicated to fully think out, but I have a hunch it's why my 'weighted weightings' did worse than the standard weightings in my comparison test, and hence why it's given me current pause for thought on the matter.
- If you say 'to hell with the 'structure'! give me copious amounts of pace, acc, jump and drib at 100 with some passing/tackling slop on top and be done with it.. keithb, give me your ratings file!', then you end up with bloated players on top of the list that fall short in some key regard.
Where do you start? Your testing of keepers is a joke surely? It doesn't prove anything, there are no facts lol. Muric is shit. The best three keepers are Courtois, Allison and Ter Stegen. Then you have Martinez and Meret. You've taken this testing from someone on youtube lol. You've also said top clubs buy these players and Courtois wins awards so he must be good haha. The awards are based on reputation mainly haha. If you use the database with Courtois injued, then Lunin or whatever his name is would win it. Because he's playing for real madrid.
Nobody wants 12 concentration over 11, rather than 17 over 16 pace. Anyone that does is clueless about football manager. Oh thats you.
The numbers I posted are excellent from day one, for newgens, for retro databases etc. Because they are the numbers that work best in the match engine. Not in your imaginary world.
You can put the numbers in from above. Its easy
Courtois is a top keeper at the start, though none of them are that great. Newgens will be loads better.
If you don't want to take my word for it, refer to HarvestGreen's data on this:
You're also not attempting a fair example. No players are going to have 20 passing, first touch, long shots, and technique. Nor is a player going to have 20 dribbling and 5 in those other stats.
You're quoting testing from someone that contradicts your testing? His keeper testing has technique at 0% and jumping reach at 1%. Aren't they two of your top attributes for a keeper? That poor person above using a keeper with 9 reflexes and struggling. Probably the rest of their team isn't that good either using your file.
Let's look at some basic numbers that anyone can plug into genie scout:
Full backs 100/100 speed. 60-70 stamina and work rate. 40-50 for anticipation, concentration and balance. 30 determination (same for all players). Agility and dribbling 20-30.
Centre backs is 100 for speed and jumping reach. 50 anticipation, concentration and balance. 40 strength. 30 determination. 20-30 work rate and stamina.
DM's are similar to FB. Can add long shots say 10-20. Maybe decrease dribbling. As jumping reach say 20 it really isn't essential. But a physical king like David ozoh will do well.
10's and wingers are similar also. It's 100/100 speed. Dribbling 65/80. They want higher agility50-65, lower concentration say 10. Add some finishing 10-20, composure 10. Stamina and work rate 30-40. Jumping reach is ZERO for both.
Fast striker similar to wingers and 10's. Increase finishing to 40. Maybe higher composure. Jumping reach ZERO.
Target striker 90/90 speed. Jumping reach 100. Strength and balance 50-60, heading 15, dribbling ZERO. Stamina and work rate 30-40.
Every position determination 30. All players are roughly 40 for balance as well. centre backs and ts higher. 50-60
Keepers 100 reflexes, 60 agility, 30 for the other attributes that harvest and FM arena say added something. Not jumping reach (10) or technique (ZERO). Aerial reach yes 30.
That's not complete it's from memory. When you search filter injury proneness max 17, pressure minimum 5 and professionalism 12, but ideally 15. Buy young players with high genie scout ratings and/or high pa. Some 150 players can be monsters but in general the higher pa players will always be better. Not the ones with very low speed to start with. You can change the weightings to 105 for each position. Add the start of the game there is a lack of top quality keepers and centre backs so you can increase these to 110. But you don't want these weighting too far apart and Haaland is a 100% player. Plus when searching for say 90+ players GS wont always show players that are over 100.
If you really want to cheese the game don't start with that many leagues then add Belgium, Spain div2, Netherlands, Italy div2, Portugal div2 and see the players it populates the next season lol. High pa and dirt cheap. Especially in Spain.
For the person who doesn't like to play with real players. Start with Hong Kong only and holiday ten seasons. Then add the leagues you want, remove Hong Kong and most players won't be real.
The table you posted also shows that speed, surprisingly, is twice as good as any other attribute. Who knew. Well not you.
the problem is people trust this ratings blindly i made tests with this rating with gsscout and it show goalkeepers with 100 or 110 pa better than great goalkeepers just because they are tall and have enough aerial reach and jumping reach to surpass lack of reflexes, 1-1, etc.
It's some of the maddest stuff I've seen concerning football manager. We've back to speed isn't king/op, reflexes aren't important for keepers and jumping reach is now essential in every position. You can literally play for a few seasons with wingers and 10's that have jumping reach under 5 and they will be your best players through goals, assists and average rating. For example Messi in a retro database will get an average rating above 8 playing 10 or RW. But bozo is telling people you should play Soucek there. Sometimes I tell myself he's not serious and this is all some joke, because I'm not sure what level of reality I'm supposed to be operating on. But he's deadly serious. I don't think the words even exist to describe how crazy this all is. And people believe him 😂😂
Anyway its food for thought!
You really need to stop typing this stuff out. The AI is horrendous at squad building and buying the right players. It is based off ca/pa, reputation and other things. Not the attributes needed for the match engine. A team will have three keepers and they're all shit. Or they will play the worst one of the three. Just like when you do quick pick and your assistant picks some of your worst players to start.
Using one of the biggest faults in the game to validate your testing again shows how bad your knowledge of this game is. Its staggering
Its just a bit of fun. This is how Bozo and I talk to each other. He tells me im pissing in my own face for suggesting stamina is important for full backs and dm's and I have a laugh about his testing and delusion. All ok.
I dont think there is anything else I want to talk about. How about you?
Your ratings aren't based on solid data. What was your control? You used the best tactics and maybe set pieces? You would rather have a centre mid on the wings than prime Messi or Robben!! You'd rather have Kane and other slow strikers up front over Mbappe. Its insane you think you've done well. Full backs, 10,'s, wingers and fast strikers dont need jumping reach at all!!
Thanks for the percentages ratings, they were a great laugh.
Frimpong is 5'6 and fast. Is that not very short in fm24?
This is what we get from pseudo experts.
test attributes in isolation + hundreds of possible attribute combinations over thousands of games > record best performing combination of attributes > translate to Genie Scout weightings
not GS weightings > GS Ratings > record winning combination of attributes
So you are confused when you believe my ranking of Mbappe is tied to how well I understand Genie Scout's formulae for hidden attributes.
The translation into weightings works accurately for FM26 scoring system, it is specifically a Genie Scout problem. What FM26 scoring system lacks is the ability to weight hidden attributes.
It is also not a matter of just work out what formula Genie Scout is using and then take that into account. Say it was that personality attributes are weighted at 50% of visible attributes. Ok, then we could just put 80 for pressure instead of 40. It is complicated, and perhaps even completely unworkable. The best way to use Genie Scout right now is to weight the visible attributes, and put filters on the hiddens.
Bozo, bozo, bozo. I'm not confused haha. Previously, prior to your latest ratings, someone posted to say GS was doing something to skew the ratings. You linked their post in the last reply to me. But we know that was because you were entering scores for the hidden attributes. Now in premier league 1 that isn't the case. So why did you quote their post?
So the reason Mbappe scores so lowly is because of your testing. But anyone knows Mbappe is the best fast striker and certainly better than all the other strikers you rank above him. No one is choosing the many strikers you rate above him. He is only beaten by Haaland.
You severely undervalue speed and that's why he scores so lowly. It's your ratings, it has nothing to do with GS. I hope that clears up your confusion. You also overrate many attributes. You can literally set fast striker to 100/100 speed, 70 dribbling, 50 anticipation, 40 balance, 30 agility and works rate, 40 finishing and that's about it. Mbappe will be the top fast striker. Jumping reach should be 0. I'm sure I've missed one or two but that's about it.
Someone else also tried to inform you here, to which you responded that the bottom line for you is your motivation to 'blame the person who made the file'.
This is why I will not be responding to any more Mbappe rubbish from you.
hahaha. Classic Bozo. So no answer then. What I said is true. Your ratings are awful as some people are starting to realise.....
Maybe Im just very lucky to I can get Mbappe to be the best fast striker in GS and you cant?
Whats also funny is we know, at least you should, that someone pointed out the ratings were wrong using the old file you posted. But that was because you didn't understand how to use hidden attributes in GS. It has no relevance at all to your premier league garbage file. Does it?