keithb
GeorgeFloydOverdosed said: Quite a few people here seem to be having trouble communicating with me. I'm not particularly upset or dismayed. In fact I rather relish the opportunities to demonstrate my undeniable superiority. But I do somewhat wish there were more productive debates, which I know have occurred before at times and are therefore possible.

Here are a few suggestions I have for communicating with me:

1) Don't call me retarded, or praise those who call me retarded, if you want me to be pleasant instead of terse towards you. I enjoy 'FM Arena' living up to its name, but expect me to respond in kind, rather than expect me to submit to passive-aggressive shenanigans and the like.

2) Actually comprehend my claims before saying 'you're wrong'. I know I write a lot, I don't expect people to read everything, but you should at least have some awareness of what I'm actually claiming before attempting to prove it wrong. Sometimes people mischaracterize my ideas. I understand, naivety is innocent - if a person is initially polite to me, I give them 4 or 5 or 6 chances to take on board what I'm saying. If they persist with cherry picking or moving on to new points while ignoring the bulk of what I say, I generally start to assume they are being deliberately passive-aggressive and either have ill intent or are simply boneheaded. I have to draw the line somewhere.

3) Maybe, just maybe, do some actual testing yourself and come up with something to say of substance. I can think of two or three people in this thread who have so far. If nobody else is coming up with anything to show, how can you blame me for dominating the field?

Thank you for your attention to this matter! :D


Any chance you might answer any of the 12+ questions you always ignore from me?

Anyway

1.) Who called you retarded? Have you made this up again? Did it happen in your fantasy world? You dont respond in kind to a lot of people, so its utterly ridiculous to expect anyone to talk to you in that way.

2.) You tell people they are wrong all the time, only last week for example. Get serious lol. You have no grounds to do so. So if we all start doing our own testing, we can then declare you wrong all the time?

3.) People dont have to do their own testing. Its already been done by people with a proven track record, something you dont and probably never will have. In the real world, not the fantasy one you live in, people call on past experiments, tests, standings and rulings as evidence to say well no thats not correct. It might be its already been proven to be false, or the test has been tried and failed. So no one has to do their own testing, but they can use other peoples testing to say that yours is wrong and awful. Its not complicated.

There's a good chance this whole thing is a troll, you're actually a child or just not very well. Or some of two or all three. Something isn't quite right thats for sure.
Can you also post these default tactics you used in tests? Maybe pics and the tactics file?

It wasn't this one? https://fm-arena.com/thread/7499-fm24-preset-4231-gegenpress/
Can you give examples of where I've lied about you? I have given multiple examples of where you've lied about me and what I've said.

I await your reply and evidence. Obviously I will be waiting a long time.......... Can you post that DM I sent you as well?
Probably the worst thing that has happened is recently. You've actually missed quoted or misrepresented what harvest green has said, or their data has said. This is someone who has put so much time and effort into this community and a huge amount of people have learned so much from it. At various times they have said they're tired or don't have the time to do more tests. And yet they have come back and carried out more testing for the benefit of all of us.

It is despicable that you would stoop this low. Several people have pointed out you've misrepresented their data or just flat out lied about what they said.

Harvest green revolutionised training. You have done nothing. Nothing at all. But I'm not surprised in the slightest that you would go this far. You still do and say anything to protect your appalling testing and results and endless lies.
GeorgeFloydOverdosed said: Darmstardt players have ~120 CA. The players I have added to Man City are ~90 CA. Most people use a top tactic I assume. But otherwise the 4 teams test (80%, 78%, 76%, 74%) suffices as proof of validity of the weightings whatever you take exception to, as no custom tactic, set pieces, nor custom players were used (completely default tactics, with squads of real players).

You are not even familiar with what you are arguing against.


You don't even understand basic points. You often say the other person doesn't understand what they're talking about haha. Using some flimsy reasoning. Just like when you said stamina wasn't important and was the most confident you've ever been. Fast forward a few months and you've rated it 90+ out of 100 lol.

Once again, as always, you're very confident you're correct. Just like you are every, single time. Only to change your mind completely soon after haha.

Half the time you just throw something out that is clearly something you've just made up. For weeks you kept saying how shit Mbappe was in your tests, because I'd said he was excellent, and now you have him as your second best striker. And you state stuff I say is embarrassing 😂😂.

Anyway looking forward to your next set of theories in a few more weeks?

Any comment on Kyle Walker being your top rated centre back using genie scout? You'd previously posted with certainty, that if your centre backs have jumping reach lower than 13/14 you'll get relegated. His jumping reach is 11. That's your top rated centre back
Rain said: I love how whenever Keith posts his burners post within minutes #Noticing

You're the funniest without a doubt. This is your track record:

You tagged me in a thread I wasn't in and then later said someone was rent free in my head haha. Anyway it was nice of you to think of me.

Only a few days ago you said that the DM's I'd received from other people, that I wasn't going to publish or say who sent them, were from my burners. But as I explained, not sure if it understand yet or not (?), if I'm not going to publish or name people I can just lie about receiving them. It would be pretty mad to send myself DM's from burner's. Haha

And now you're saying long-standing members of this website are in fact my burners that I set up years ago, just in case I ever needed to back myself up?

Do you maybe have someone who can read your posts before you hit 'post reply'?

Oh and the kicker is you've used a hashtag, this isn't twitter or whatever you use, and it said "noticing". Well once again the irony is another level. ROFL!! How do you do it? And it comes naturally!?
You "test" using the best tactics and set pieces? You can get Darmstadt to win the bundesliga in the first season with that setup. Probably the double. You also take man city out of the picture. It's such an easy test, it barely proves anything. You don't even realise half the stuff you do is flawed. It's not even amateur.

Osimhen would easily outscore and get a better rating than Maeda.
GeorgeFloydOverdosed said: Rattling off a bunch of falsehoods doesn't make them true.

Unfortunately for you, EBFM's uploads on Youtube still exist there and can be referred to.



We see that work rate reduces in-match condition % identically to stamina. So stamina cannot be more important than work rate, or at least not more than ~20% more important say.

But the real showstopper to your argument is that in the video Max also states 'a player will use 15-20% OPC per half' while showing a match in progress that shows players that started with identical condition % and attributes, and the DL/DR condition % is indistinguishable from other positions.

That said, anecdotally I know that in standard play, fullbacks tend to use a bit more condition % than the other players. I suspect this is due to the 'best' fullbacks also tending to have high work rate. This is a kind of self-fulfilling prophecy: People use GS weightings that select for high work rate on fullbacks, so they end up using more condition %, requiring higher stamina, and therefore favoring stamina too. But very high work rate on fullbacks isn't necessary to begin with. Testing shows that work rate above ~11-13 is largely superfluous.

We also see that 1 > 20 sta is equivalent to 100% vs 97% condition difference when starting match. We know that bad natural fitness will result in an inevitable condition difference of at least that, yet you have natural fitness weighted at 0.

In regards to jumping reach, it remains important for every player. I don't know how you consider '46' weighting low. It was in fact viable at lower values of ~20-30, but I thought 46 was more appropriate and it aligned fine. I haven't yet examined if extra jump reach is necessary on DC, which is an important remainder matter to clarify.

In your weightings, Vinicius Junior is no.1 FS, Mbappe is 2nd beating Haaland, while you have to scroll down to find Maeda below a 32-year-old colombian at Orlando City. Comparable analysis showed that your weightings have worse variance than the Genie Scout default values from a decade ago. The question I have is not how did you come up with those ratings, but how did you manage to get them to do worse than even the Genie Scout default??


"Testing" in your fantasy world proves nothing. You rated genie scout default ratings higher than several ratings files created by people in the last 2-4 years lol. No-one believes that to be true. Its just more material from your fictional world. No one else is there with you hahaha.

Even people who hate me and love you dont believe the genie scout default ratings have any resemblance to how the game plays. Its utterly bonkers that you've said this.

Why do you keep repeating this thing about Haaland being the third best player on my file? He is rated the best by some way You know its a lie and yet continue to repeat it. You act like a child.

As I said before you're done. This charade has run its course. Nobody believes you. You also need to stop declaring other people's testing and results as wrong. You have no idea what you're doing.
treath said: use logical arguments with the crazy never wrong scientist , he will never get

before he said courtouis it1s not the best (ter stegen were is his prem 1.0), then he was the best, now let's take courtouis out of the test to not expose my bs


He barely answers any questions I ask or points I make. Funny that. Just some ridiculous reply that has no relevance or he lies about what I said.
I do think this whole thing is a giant troll.
You keep saying what others have said or thought and you're always wrong haha. Like Yarema said above. I set stamina higher for positions that lose more condition in matches. Thats it. But you still haven't worked out why its important.............. no surprise there. 

More ground breaking results everyone; speed is important for centre backs as well as strikers!!

And there's more;

" 2/3rds of attributes continue to have zero effect on final season position" Who bloody knew!!

What are you even talking about when you say "The trouble with the 'pace/acc is everything' explanation is that it failed to account for players such as Kane and Lewandowski" What does that even mean?!?! They are accounted for lol.

More than half the stuff you say is just from your fantasy world. Its a complete fiction that you've created and then talk about. Its not real.

In your last testing you said jumping reach was super important for every position and now you've set it quite low. Before you said Mbappe was shit hahah. Now he's your 2nd best player lol. And lets not forget you said I was pissing in my own face for saying stamina was important haha. You said you didn't need it at all and now you say its 80%!! What level of reality are we supposed to be operating on? Because I cant operate on yours.

Keepers dont need technique

Forwards dont need concentration

Wingers and 10's can have jumping reach 1.

Centre backs dont need high stamina.
TheBucket said: Even if it were the case he is testing things that might be considered consensus, there is no harm done at minimum in sharing results that further solidify what we believe to be true in the game. This is the worst case. The best case is that things that we all believed were widely accepted are actually discovered to be misconceptions and the relationship between certain things can be isolated with further study. This happens continuously in this community. We wouldn't have the degree of certainty or intricacy in understanding the mechanics of the game if it weren't for continuous testing. You can have your personal issues and disagreements with this person. It is your right to. I just don't understand why you continuously attack him with prescriptions that would be counterintuitive to a tester that wants to be accurate and concise. When he (or we) get things wrong and you confront their information, that is useful for the space. We will find more value in attacking the ideas and results, rather than the people sharing what they've found and believe :cool:

Interesting theories. But when the answer is always you're wrong im right because my testing is flawless, it leaves little room for discussion. Or for example if I suggest and then state stamina is important for full backs and mids and the reply is "It's one thing to posit challenges based on your own intuition, nothing wrong with that. And even arrogance has preservation of dignity as is its virtue. But where is the dignity in insulting me only to piss up into your own face in front of everyone?" Im not really sure how to respond? I mean I did laugh a lot. We are now told stamina IS important. Its been an enlightening few months.

Its a cycle of you're wrong, im right and then in a few days, weeks or even months a new set of flawless testing declares that what I said was in fact pretty accurate. Who could have seen it coming..........

Anyway I have never pissed in my own face. In any respect.
In premier league 1 you stated you need jumping reach of 13/14 at centre back, or you will be relegated. In premier league 2 Kyle Walker is your top rated centre back with jumping reach of 11. This seems contradictory? Could you please explain this? It's confusing.
You've been at this ten months and discovered what we all knew two years ago. Bravo.

Why do you test using man city? Have you used other teams? Say a mid table and bottom side?

For premier league 1 you claim your testing gets you 5th. But this is without man city in the league? When I play the game they are in the league though. Will this make a difference?
Rain said: Of course you wouldn't because they're dms from your burners lmao

Well no there wouldn't be any dm's at all would there haha. If im not going to publish them, they wouldnt even need to exist. How can you say these things?

But I would again ask OP to publish the dm he said I sent him. Which is obviously a lie
Zippo said: @keithb

Hi there,

I just want to make it clear.

Arguing with someone about something on the forum is a pretty normal thing and that's what the forum is meant for.

But personal insults ARE NOT OK and such behaviour won’t be tolerated.

If someone is confused about what personal insults are then it’s when you say to someone that "he's stupid”, "he's idiot", "he's retarded", "he's Bozo" and so on - such behavior IS NOT OK and as I said it won’t be tolerated.

This is the last warning. CUT OFF personal insults and keep it civil.

When I say “keep it civil” I mean that if you disagree with someone then feel free to explain your point of view on the subject without using personal insults.

I hope I made it clear.

Cheers.


Im a bit confused as to why calling someone Bozo, after the clown, leaps to a last warning? Other people have called me a retard, told me im pissing in my own face and compared me to an intolerable third worlder. Would any of these come with a warning? What about continuously lying about a user or lying about what they've said? Thats ok?

On another note I notice your website now comes with a red warning from chrome and a critical warning on another browser. Have you addressed these security issues?
I would never say who has dm'd me or publish their dm's. Never. Nor would I tell anyone over dm. They are private.

But again I do ask Bozo the Liar to publish the DM he said I sent him last week begging him to delete the results of my ratings file. lol. Obviously he cant because he LIED, surprise surprise, saying I had.
ZaZ said: It is a bit embarrassing to see those meaningless fights. This is just a game, made for entertainment. If anyone does not like another user, then you could just skip their threads and avoid replying to what they post. Attacking other users is not nice, and makes the entire environment sour.
@Zippo


I dont disagree. I wasn't prepared to let Bozo repeatedly tell lies about me or what I've said. I have carried this on too far, but then when Bozo continues to lie about you all the time I have a right to reply.

I think the majority of people can now see how things are and im probably happy to leave it there.
GeorgeFloydOverdosed said: You have stamina weighted at 0 for DC, 20 for ST/TS/AMC/AML/AMR, and 60 elsewhere. It's not my fault your own weights contradict your own words.

Meanwhile, the key attribute of dirtiness you leave on 0, as you have 0 clue of course about what attributes actually matter beyond what we knew from HarvestGreen's testing a year or two ago.

But as I've said, you can have a variety of combinations that work to get match the final ranking result. And at least you're implicitly accepting now that my objective rankings are correct.

Let's do a comparison of our two files to find out just how similar they really are. First, yours:



Junior is 1st for FS, even with 16 ST proficiency. Mbappe is above Haaland. Messi is 5% above Lewandowski and 10% above Maeda. Even Malen is above Maeda. Dybala is above Maeda and Furuhashi. Mbappe (8 jump, 8 head, 11 str) is a better target man than Glatzel (16 jump/head/str). It goes on.

Mine:



There are some minor issues, such as that Maeda should be ~3% higher, and that Malen & Glatzel should have a wider percentage gap between them.


The only fair point you've raised in your entire posting history I believe

It is true that hiddens remain invalid for GS. I decided in the end to include them for my final GS adjustment at the end to try and closely match what I got in FMST26, halved for everything except dirtiness & injury proneness & natural fitness. Dirtiness & injury proneness are essential to the weightings, there's no way to do without them.

Because GS calculates incorrectly, the ratings remain a bit off compared to what you'll get in FMST26, hence I highly recommend FMST26, but I know many people aren't going to be willing to switch over.


hahaahh the hilarity continues. Its good to laugh. I literally said DC doesn't need high stamina, so yeah I set it low. Maybe it should be 10-20 and I missed it. It makes no difference lol. Same as concentration doesn't matter for forwards. Its practically useless.

The key attribute of dirtiness??? Come on stop now, you cant even be a real person hahah. No-one in their right mind who has actually played this game to a good level thinks dirtiness is a key attribute. Only you.

I dont accept anything you say as correct. Pretty much everything you have to say of your own is wrong. Lets take a look;

You ridiculed me for saying stamina is important for full backs and dm's, because they lose the most condition each game, and now you're saying its one of the most important attributes for every player hahah. Do you still stand by that time i said i was "pissing in my own face" for saying stamina was important for those two positions?

You again ridiculed me for saying Mbappe was the best fast striker hahah. You had him 20th. Now you have him 2nd behind Haaland. So I think I might have been correct twice there?

I have looked at your file, removing the negative scores and hidden attributes, and you score a lot of players the same as me roughly. The positions you dont is wingers and 10's mainly because you criminally underrate dribbling. There's so many better TS than Glatzel hahah.

Previously you said if your centre backs dont have jumping reach 13/14+ you will get relegated. Your top rated centre back, Kyle Walker, has jumping reach of 11(ELEVEN). You cant even review your own shambolic work, probably best to stop criticising others dont you think? You dont even understand why your testing is so flawed hahahah. You took the BEST team out of the league and then said these attributes are enough to win it. Oh well and as long as Man City dont take part. Does that matter???

You dont need to score hidden attributes and use negative values. People on here are more than capable of using filters ffs. Is this how lowly you think of other people? They cant enter a few filers on GS?

You're done Bozo its over. People know your testing is a joke. They will be able to see you've moved more in line with my ratings. They can see you're a massive liar. I have numerous DM's thanking me for pointing out you're wrong all the time. People have used your file and its come up very short, especially with keepers. On the subject of DM's why dont you publish the one you said I sent you last week or whenever it was? Or was that just another massive lie? Or something a five year old would say. Which is worse?

People now know you as Bozo the Liar. People also probably think im a prick. I am to you, but do you see me ever talking to Zaz like this or other decent people on here? No because they dont tell me im pissing in my own face for suggesting stamina is important in certain positions.
Because Im quite stupid, arrogant, delusional and have little self awareness I've never understood what 'peer reviewed' means. Can someone please explain it to me like Im five years old?