More shoddy testing. From someone who thinks, from their testing, tactics are more important than attributes. Didn't have Haaland as the best player. Silly Lockjaw. Jumping reach over reflexes for keepers, maybe it's Bozo. Do those shoes hurt after a few hours? Always wondered that.
dancamp said: for fm24 still -- what's the best/recommended way to use the template ideals for position to search for players? maybe just use the key/green attributes for each position and knock the ratings down until you get a suitable audience pool? Expand
You ignore the key/green attributes. Fastest players possible. Many attributes are useless
You have way too many attributes set to 100. Its only speed and reflexes really. And I dont know how the mental traits work. Given they are are out of 20, how does setting them to 25 work?
DC is the last position that needs stamina as they run much less. They can still perform to a high level late in games.
Jumping reach for keepers is basically irrelevant. It's tied to headers, whereas aerial reach is for catching the ball. Reflexes is the strongest attribute for a keeper. It's why older keepers who start in the game, Oblak for example, are still top, top keepers with lower agility.
LightningFlik said: Where are HarvestGreen's weights? I found his latest Goalkeeper weights in an untranslated spreadsheet but could only find multi-step formulae for outfield attributes that involve doing different things if attributes are between thresholds. Expand
Weights for genie scout? I dont think he did any. But they aren't hard to work out apart from keeper. You definitely shouldn't be giving every position the same weights though.
ZaZ said: I have no clue what he has better that is much better than other elite games, unless "gets the crowd going" makes him score more goals. Expand
He challenges for more headers and wins most, he takes more shots and scores a lot more goals. He has high anticipation and other attributes that matter. But there is definitely something else about him. Maybe its a combination of all that and/or his hidden attributes. I might have had a guy in a save who was 20/20 speed with also average jumping reach that came close, but then the game was easier so its hard to compare them.
ZaZ said: I did a test with Haaland edited to play as AMC in Burnley, using Autumn. He was scoring over two goals per match. Expand
Obviously he's a physical monster. But what else do you think makes him so superior? In FM 23/24 I had him score 100 a season. Never had anything like it before or after him in a save.
It's telling that someone has to make things up and lie. I never said the most important attribute for a full back was stamina. I never said changing your mind was a sign of weakness. I did say stamina is an important attribute for DM's and full backs. I also said if you have carried out tests and not found Haaland to be the best in the game by some way, there is something wrong with your testing. If you fail to understand this then what else is there to discuss. Alongside unreliable testing methods I think you have a poor understanding of the game itself. I say this as you don't seem to grasp how good Haaland is. How superior.
Anyway if we look back multiple versions of football manager yes we knew that better defenders meant we scored more goals. Glad you've discovered this in 2026. It doesn't mean a goalkeeper is more important than outfield players. Again we all know if your players have 20/20 speed then every other attribute matters less. Because we have known for a long time that speed is so overpowered. We use the squad planner to see where we need to improve and roughly where we should finish with the highest and average.
A few pages back we have "Tactic is actually somewhat more important than attribute". Can't take anyone saying that seriously. I hope you change your mind on that as it's incorrect. It's more than reasonable for me and many others to believe that a lot of your testing has lead to incorrect results. I have given you some cast iron examples.
At least you were on the right track why stamina matters. You didn't quite join all the dots, but you weren't that far off. There's a part of me that thinks this whole thing is a cry for help. So I'll probably leave it there and let you carry on. But if it is then you should talk to someone.
Rain said: It's not that deep man you're on a forum trying to find better ways to cheat an already easy single player game like you said. If you don't agree just move on don't waste your time. Expand
It's a single player game and anyone can play it in any way they like. Sometimes I wanted to see how badly I could "cheat the game" and others I was happier to play slowly with my own tactics and only buying players recommended from my scouts. I also used python which I thought was far superior to genie scout. Setting a level 7 for speed.
If I feel someone is misleading others then I will say something. Or like a few years ago when someone was clearly bullying others on the forum I spoke up. Lockjaw probably loves free speech and he loves people sticking it to people and organisations. So I'm just joining in.
Anyone not finding Haaland isn't by far the best player in the game and declaring "Tactic is actually somewhat more important than attributes." Needs to really ask themselves how they got it so wrong. It shows unreliable testing methods and a poor understanding of methodology, or just testing in general. If that person also has a fragile personality they will just crack on regardless and take no notice, as they couldn't possibly be wrong. As we endlessly see.
Rain said: Instead of b*tching why don't you post your own testing results? Expand
Hi and many thanks for your interaction. I don't need to do my own testing when others have done it for me. Harvest green and the testing done by FM arena is good and reliable. It won't be 100% accurate but it seems as close as we might get. Having played FM24 too much and using their results to shape my ratings for genie scout, it's not hard to work out they are highly accurate. To make the game harder I would use a tactic that was rated approximately 10 points lower than the highest one by knapp. The game was still too easy. I can offer you some tips: dribbling is important for wingers, the sun is hot, anticipation is an attribute that is useful all over the pitch but slightly more so strikers, the sea is wet, your defenders should prioritise pace over acceleration slightly, you need to breath air to live, people still undervalue jumping reach it's the third highest point scorer on fm arena testing.
Lockjaw a page or two back claimed tactics are more important than attributes. Another howler. But not a surprise. This is the same person who didn't have Haaland as the best player in the game. How is that possible??? There's something very wrong there. But if you wish to follow this you are free to do so.
Again many thanks for your interaction and I looked forward to the next one.
GeorgeFloydOverdosed said: There's something useful in this. For some attributes you only need 1 or 2 guys to do the job (i.e. finishing, jumping reach), whereas others need to be on everyone (i.e. pace, acc). Expand
Surely this is bait?? You cant seriously be coming to these conclusions now? You reckon some positions need certain attributes more than others? And that speed is every player? Im in the Matrix.
GeorgeFloydOverdosed said: It's one thing for you to have incorrectly assumed that stamina on fullbacks is crucial for success. Since you never did any testing yourself, it was a fair and widely held assumption to bet your dignity on. You couldn't have known my finding in advance that both DL/DR with 1 stamina (along with a bunch of serious shortfalls in other positions) results in coming 8th (instead of 4th-5th).
But this time you're making an assertion after it's shown to be wrong. In a team where both wingers have 1 pace, and fullbacks have 1 stamina, the team finishes 8th. In a team where just the goalkeeper has technique '8' instead of '13', the team goes from 6th to relegated. And although I did not mention this, I actually switched from aerial reach to handling for my reduced team attribute, because aerial reach 13 > 1 resulted in 15th.
I have more data to pull from. When the 15 pace/acc team was normal, and the GK lacked 4 key stats (that weren't the big three of aer/ref/agil), the result was 12th. When just the single attribute of GK acceleration was low ('8' ), the result was 9th - and that was with boosts to many other GK attributes that I later deemed superfluous. Expand
Oh Lockjaw. You haven't shown anything to make me wrong. Your methodology is crap. There's nothing useful in those tests. You are someone who didn't even have Haaland as the best striker at one point? How can your testing be taken seriously. The 1ca tests are interesting but they aren't conclusive. We can now run teams and wingers can have 1 pace?
Weeks ago you said stamina didn't matter, or words to that affect, and then more recently you said it did. Which is it? It's also obvious why stamina is useful, what happens if your team has low stamina and why certain positions need it more than others. You running some half baked tests isn't conclusive. As I've said multiple times already you aren't a good tester. Most of your work is just other people's you've redone. Bravo.
Yarema said: Not sure I agree with that broad statement that GK is the least important position. Issue is mostly with the way these attribute tests are done. For outfield players it's usually the whole team change and for goalkeepers it's a single player. To put it another way outfield you are testing the change on 10 players at once vs goalkeeper only 1 player. Expand
People can have a different view that's fine. It's not an exact thing and I tried to include some nuance. FM is mainly about scoring goals rather than keeping clean sheets. But some have won the league with a lot of 1-0's or 2-1's so if that's your play style then maybe keepers are more important. I've won champions league finals because my keeper has been my best player. But overall I'd still rather a better ten outfield players.
Keepers are the least important position in FM24 over a season. However in a single game they can make the difference. Once you reach a certain level with your team, challenging for the biggest trophies, your keeper can be the difference in a semi or final for example. Maybe this is also true in relegation scrap, but I don't have any experience of those.
Let's say Haaland is 99.99%(he should be) using genie scout and your team was 80%. You don't want any positions to be too far behind. Having ten players at 80% and then one at 70% is going to hold you back. Sometimes that 70% player might have a stellar season, but they won't repeat it every year. They will need to be upgraded. The same goes for keeper. But if you had the choice between a 85% outfield player or 85% keeper, and you keeper was already the same as your outfield players, you choose the outfield player every time. Caveat being maybe if he had high important matches and pressure he could win you a final. Even more if your keeper is lacking that and you're trying to win the biggest competitions. Overall you'd still be better off with the 85% outfield player.
The game isn't that complicated and although a lot of people make the mistake of applying real life logic, in some cases, such as you should try to upgrade your worst position are true. Although teams irl will probably still buy a top DM over a full back. But full backs can be really strong in FM, so that's where the real life logic goes out the window a bit.
Anyway I'm sure Lockjaw will disagree with most of that.
Note that this has nothing to do with your claim that stamina is the most important attribute for fullbacks. You remind me of those insufferable 3rd worlders living in slums under despots who look at the George Floyd debacle and reiterate with a mischievous grin 'See, I told you America is collapsing!'. Expand
😂😂. Most important? I never said that. If you have to tell lies, whilst spewing out this other crap, it shows how badly you handle any criticism and how desperate you are to be loved by strangers online. I said it was more important than several other attributes you'd listed and hadn't mentioned stamina. You replied saying it wasn't. Now you've discovered it's important overall? We knew this years ago. Show me where I did l said it was the most important you liar.
Your replies are hilarious. Attributes are speed, jumping each, dribbling and then stamina. Again we knew the years ago. Then you have anticipation. You can't be seriously working this out in 2026 when we knew this in 2023.
If you were any good at this you'd be working out which attributes were more important by position, rather than just which attributes are important. The tests you did on players was funny as well. Goncalo Ramos?? Honestly concentrate on your school work. You've probably got your exams next year.
Ps I also don't remember dribbling being hard to find. It's one of the best attacking attributes, after speed of course if you were thinking about telling more lies saying I said it's the most important.
If personality and negative values mess with GS then don't bother with them. Whenever you search for players you can set minimum and maximum to filter out players anyway. Simple
You ignore the key/green attributes. Fastest players possible. Many attributes are useless
Look at these;
https://fm-arena.com/thread/14009-attribute-testing-football-manager-24/
https://fm-arena.com/thread/18816-fm24-i-re-tested-the-goalkeeper-s-attributes-using-newer-test-league/
https://fm-arena.com/thread/13685-current-24-4-latest-version-full-attribute-test-52000-match-samples/
You have also underrated other physicals
Jumping reach for keepers is basically irrelevant. It's tied to headers, whereas aerial reach is for catching the ball. Reflexes is the strongest attribute for a keeper. It's why older keepers who start in the game, Oblak for example, are still top, top keepers with lower agility.
Weights for genie scout? I dont think he did any. But they aren't hard to work out apart from keeper. You definitely shouldn't be giving every position the same weights though.
He challenges for more headers and wins most, he takes more shots and scores a lot more goals. He has high anticipation and other attributes that matter. But there is definitely something else about him. Maybe its a combination of all that and/or his hidden attributes. I might have had a guy in a save who was 20/20 speed with also average jumping reach that came close, but then the game was easier so its hard to compare them.
Obviously he's a physical monster. But what else do you think makes him so superior? In FM 23/24 I had him score 100 a season. Never had anything like it before or after him in a save.
Anyway if we look back multiple versions of football manager yes we knew that better defenders meant we scored more goals. Glad you've discovered this in 2026. It doesn't mean a goalkeeper is more important than outfield players. Again we all know if your players have 20/20 speed then every other attribute matters less. Because we have known for a long time that speed is so overpowered. We use the squad planner to see where we need to improve and roughly where we should finish with the highest and average.
A few pages back we have "Tactic is actually somewhat more important than attribute". Can't take anyone saying that seriously. I hope you change your mind on that as it's incorrect. It's more than reasonable for me and many others to believe that a lot of your testing has lead to incorrect results. I have given you some cast iron examples.
At least you were on the right track why stamina matters. You didn't quite join all the dots, but you weren't that far off. There's a part of me that thinks this whole thing is a cry for help. So I'll probably leave it there and let you carry on. But if it is then you should talk to someone.
It's a single player game and anyone can play it in any way they like. Sometimes I wanted to see how badly I could "cheat the game" and others I was happier to play slowly with my own tactics and only buying players recommended from my scouts. I also used python which I thought was far superior to genie scout. Setting a level 7 for speed.
If I feel someone is misleading others then I will say something. Or like a few years ago when someone was clearly bullying others on the forum I spoke up. Lockjaw probably loves free speech and he loves people sticking it to people and organisations. So I'm just joining in.
Anyone not finding Haaland isn't by far the best player in the game and declaring "Tactic is actually somewhat more important than attributes." Needs to really ask themselves how they got it so wrong. It shows unreliable testing methods and a poor understanding of methodology, or just testing in general. If that person also has a fragile personality they will just crack on regardless and take no notice, as they couldn't possibly be wrong. As we endlessly see.
Take it easy
Hi and many thanks for your interaction. I don't need to do my own testing when others have done it for me. Harvest green and the testing done by FM arena is good and reliable. It won't be 100% accurate but it seems as close as we might get. Having played FM24 too much and using their results to shape my ratings for genie scout, it's not hard to work out they are highly accurate. To make the game harder I would use a tactic that was rated approximately 10 points lower than the highest one by knapp. The game was still too easy. I can offer you some tips: dribbling is important for wingers, the sun is hot, anticipation is an attribute that is useful all over the pitch but slightly more so strikers, the sea is wet, your defenders should prioritise pace over acceleration slightly, you need to breath air to live, people still undervalue jumping reach it's the third highest point scorer on fm arena testing.
Lockjaw a page or two back claimed tactics are more important than attributes. Another howler. But not a surprise. This is the same person who didn't have Haaland as the best player in the game. How is that possible??? There's something very wrong there. But if you wish to follow this you are free to do so.
Again many thanks for your interaction and I looked forward to the next one.
Surely this is bait?? You cant seriously be coming to these conclusions now? You reckon some positions need certain attributes more than others? And that speed is every player? Im in the Matrix.
But this time you're making an assertion after it's shown to be wrong. In a team where both wingers have 1 pace, and fullbacks have 1 stamina, the team finishes 8th. In a team where just the goalkeeper has technique '8' instead of '13', the team goes from 6th to relegated. And although I did not mention this, I actually switched from aerial reach to handling for my reduced team attribute, because aerial reach 13 > 1 resulted in 15th.
I have more data to pull from. When the 15 pace/acc team was normal, and the GK lacked 4 key stats (that weren't the big three of aer/ref/agil), the result was 12th. When just the single attribute of GK acceleration was low ('8' ), the result was 9th - and that was with boosts to many other GK attributes that I later deemed superfluous.
Oh Lockjaw. You haven't shown anything to make me wrong. Your methodology is crap. There's nothing useful in those tests. You are someone who didn't even have Haaland as the best striker at one point? How can your testing be taken seriously. The 1ca tests are interesting but they aren't conclusive. We can now run teams and wingers can have 1 pace?
Weeks ago you said stamina didn't matter, or words to that affect, and then more recently you said it did. Which is it? It's also obvious why stamina is useful, what happens if your team has low stamina and why certain positions need it more than others. You running some half baked tests isn't conclusive. As I've said multiple times already you aren't a good tester. Most of your work is just other people's you've redone. Bravo.
People can have a different view that's fine. It's not an exact thing and I tried to include some nuance. FM is mainly about scoring goals rather than keeping clean sheets. But some have won the league with a lot of 1-0's or 2-1's so if that's your play style then maybe keepers are more important. I've won champions league finals because my keeper has been my best player. But overall I'd still rather a better ten outfield players.
Let's say Haaland is 99.99%(he should be) using genie scout and your team was 80%. You don't want any positions to be too far behind. Having ten players at 80% and then one at 70% is going to hold you back. Sometimes that 70% player might have a stellar season, but they won't repeat it every year. They will need to be upgraded. The same goes for keeper. But if you had the choice between a 85% outfield player or 85% keeper, and you keeper was already the same as your outfield players, you choose the outfield player every time. Caveat being maybe if he had high important matches and pressure he could win you a final. Even more if your keeper is lacking that and you're trying to win the biggest competitions. Overall you'd still be better off with the 85% outfield player.
The game isn't that complicated and although a lot of people make the mistake of applying real life logic, in some cases, such as you should try to upgrade your worst position are true. Although teams irl will probably still buy a top DM over a full back. But full backs can be really strong in FM, so that's where the real life logic goes out the window a bit.
Anyway I'm sure Lockjaw will disagree with most of that.
Note that this has nothing to do with your claim that stamina is the most important attribute for fullbacks. You remind me of those insufferable 3rd worlders living in slums under despots who look at the George Floyd debacle and reiterate with a mischievous grin 'See, I told you America is collapsing!'.
😂😂. Most important? I never said that. If you have to tell lies, whilst spewing out this other crap, it shows how badly you handle any criticism and how desperate you are to be loved by strangers online. I said it was more important than several other attributes you'd listed and hadn't mentioned stamina. You replied saying it wasn't. Now you've discovered it's important overall? We knew this years ago. Show me where I did l said it was the most important you liar.
Your replies are hilarious. Attributes are speed, jumping each, dribbling and then stamina. Again we knew the years ago. Then you have anticipation. You can't be seriously working this out in 2026 when we knew this in 2023.
If you were any good at this you'd be working out which attributes were more important by position, rather than just which attributes are important. The tests you did on players was funny as well. Goncalo Ramos?? Honestly concentrate on your school work. You've probably got your exams next year.
Ps I also don't remember dribbling being hard to find. It's one of the best attacking attributes, after speed of course if you were thinking about telling more lies saying I said it's the most important.
Reached 100 points!!
One thing is for sure this is amazing for finding strikers.
4 straight seasons with the league’s top scorer.
Is Mitrovic a defender? Are you scoring a lot from corners?