As a regular follower of this thread, I’ve grown tired of seeing your constantly argumentative, aggressive posts. The fact that you keep slinging mud at people who are trying to carry out analyses—even if some of them are wrong—without conducting any analysis or testing yourself, and that your posts now make up the bulk of this thread, is becoming highly annoying. Expand
Im sorry you feel that way.
I am merely exposing the truths(something Lockjaw loves and implores others to do) about testing from Lockjaw whilst simultaneously trying not to piss in my own face as they once put it. Its vital work and Im happy to do it. I dont need to do my own testing as others who are good testers have already done it. Using their test results and others before them I made my own weightings and these consistently produce the best results in genie scout. Something Lockjaw cant do and then falsely claims that genie scout is bugged. However he wont say how its bugged. Just another excuse from a long list to cover his rather turgid tracks.
Id say most if not nearly all Bozo's testing is wrong. You'd be a fool to follow any of it. We're now into the realms of speed isn't as important as we, correctly, thought and actually other useless attributes really aren't that far behind it at all. And im the one who is pissing in my own face apparently? Blimey
GeorgeFloydOverdosed said: What you don't realize is that I stated this before HarvestGreen said anything about pressure.
HarvestGreen's post was 29 March 2026.
15 December 2025:
19 December 2025:
Both in this very thread.
Not that I discovered the effect of pressure of course, I've always credited Orion for that from the get go. My point is that I have long hypothesized that pressure functions as work rate does, and also I think it's fair to say that Orion's findings had been largely ignored and forgotten, so I think I will give myself a pat on the back for breathing fresh life into this piece of knowledge.
Or is keithb going to claim that, as with everything else, everybody already knew pressure was the most important personality attribute? Expand
hahah you literally said after new testing it was worth 52. People knew pressure was important years ago. Anyway yes give yourself a well-deserved pat on the back haha. Bloody Bozo
Anyway are you going to explain how genie scout is bugged? Or is that just another thing you made up to excuse your crap weighting.
GeorgeFloydOverdosed said: Yes, pressure is important. I first saw this when I came across Orion's FM22 test on it, and I think HarvestGreen has recently posted data for this for FM24 too. It's not as critical as pace/acc, because it seems that 10 or a bit even lower can be sufficient. I would speculate that it's going to be like work rate where 6 is the point beyond which returns start to tail off. But as we can see from the chart, pressure 10 > 20 is a 10% boost which is still highly significant (equivalent to 1 > 10 consistency or determination).
The weights are simply their values x 4 right now. So pressure 52/4 = 13. I'm actually yet to test pressure less than 13 yet, I suspect it could drop a point or two. You haven't asked about how weightings should be derived from attribute levels that work, but it touches on the matter. I don't want to get into this anyway, but let's just say there's no one way of approaching it. At the moment, I'm going for a transparent, simple approach, and I will be giving this more thought later. To give you a straightforward example of what I mean, consider pace/acc. 14-15 is necessary to finish ~5th, but a team of 13 will get you relegated. So perhaps one would say let's make that 56 weighting 100 instead, just to ensure you get at least 14 pace/acc. And for pressure, it's 52 weighting, but you only *really* need say ~6-10, with little benefit for 14+, so maybe let's make that 45 instead of 52. In a way that produces better results, but the formula is more opaque and perhaps more whimsical, and yet there are also other downsides/trade-offs too when you start thinking about this deeply.
I think I have accidentally used 4xDC 17 with 2xST (out of 4) 17 and the result wasn't noticeably different (hence I didn't realize until a bit later).
I've answered the balance & dribbling for DC question, it's because the key attributes turn out to be equally essential for all outfield positions. Expand
harvestgreen22 said: The influence of pressure mainly focuses on 1-6. That is, similar to Work Rate, when the pressure is lower than 6, the players will face severe penalties (18.2%). However, when it is above 6, there are benefits, but the benefits are not as significant (8.9%). Expand
Who knew eh?!?! Once again we thank you for groundbreaking research(which was initially wrong. As always!!!)
LightningFlik said: I don't have access to Genie Scout so I've been calculating ratings manually using weights from different people. I multiply each attribute by its coefficient (assuming the attribute has a coefficient, sum the values and divide by a scaling value.
Doing this, I found the order of resultant players if different to the order Genie Scout presents, leading me to believe maybe it's factoring in footedness or height or positional familiarity, or maybe just not normalising personality values.
It's clearly doing something right because people have used it for years to build winning teams, I just noted that if you've taken care to tweak the weights then GS is going to do something you can't predict with them. Expand
Thanks a for a decent and genuine reply.
I dont ever set consistency, important matches or any of the hidden with the scoring/weighting. Its not perfect and sometimes I wonder how a physical player isn't rated him. But its definitely accurate, not bugged with the scores and it will identify the elite and world class players if you set it up correctly.
I dont agree that GS is going to do something you cant predict. Again I've never had an issue, never missed a player.
BulldozerJokic said: Saying that wingers don't need jumping is absolutely ridiculous. The way top FM24 tactics work is that jumping on wingers is more important than jumping on strikers or even centrebacks. Just watch a couple of games to see it for yourself Expand
How many goals are these wingers scoring each season from headers?
Looking forward to your file for genie scout that has jumping reach 100 for wingers, 50 for centre backs and 25 for target striker. Sounds great!!
Nozdormu said: 1. If pressure has a weight 52, then it is super important, it is as important as acceleration and pace, isn't it? how much pressure is good? probably at least 15?
2. Are there any other attributes (just as pressure) which are important but you are not putting them into Genie Scout's calculations? I mean what else attributes (besides pressure) we need to manually filter them?
3. You use two ST with jump 17 to do the test, not DC, Did you ever use two DC with jumping 17 or 18 to test it?
4. Why give so much weight to balance and dribbling for DC? Expand
There's no way that pressure is eight behind speed. But then in the latest file it seems a lot of attributes are, which is simply not right. Speed is still so superior to every other attribute, or even 2-3 attributes combined, that you can't take these tests seriously.
Centre backs should have decent balance, it's another attribute every player should have a decent amount of, but they don't need dribbling. Dribbling is for wingers, 10's and full backs and fast strikers. Why you would want your centre back dribbling up the pitch I have no idea. Dribbling is strong in FM 24 for attacking. Speed is still more important but the truly elite wingers will have high dribbling, balance and agility.
If you have fast player's you won't get relegated if your centre backs have 13 jumping reach. Just more bonus testing. Recently Lockjaw ridiculed me for saying stamina was important in certain positions. Now he has the set at 52 also. He doesn't know what he's doing and changes his mind from tests using Knapp's best formations and blue set pieces. You can sometimes get Luton into Europe using that setup with no transfers. I mean come on.
I can't see any pictures you post. But I'm sure it's nonsense anyway.
You never answer any questions. How exactly is genie scout bugged? It clearly isn't. Just your ratings are awful and you don't understand how to use it. So you make a claim that it's broken as it couldn't possibly be anything to do with you.
GeorgeFloydOverdosed said: Club rating and potential rating in Genie Scout is rubbish. Genie Scout is bugged, as was first pointed out not by me, but by LightningFlik on page 7.
Your understanding is really outdated. Expand
Hahaha. How is it bugged exactly?
Because it has always worked fine for me. It still does. Both players and the club ratings.
Anything on the other points regarding how badly you rate players? Because using scoring that is accurate to how FM plays Mbappe would be the second to third highest rated player and Yamal would be better than Muller and Kanye on the wing.
Do you not think the clubs are too closely matched? The gap should be a bit bigger down to the bottom of that page. And why are they rated so lowly? Do you use weight in genie scout? Its really useful. Genie scout is not bugged, it works as intended. But it does rate players and therefore teams too low.
Then we have Mbappe only rated 78/80 which is crazy and Yamal with a potential of only 75. He isn't the best rw in the game, but really 75?? Thomas Muller is rated higher than him for rw. How can this be serious? Kante is rated 74!!! Surely Yamal reaching his potential is better than those two?
How do you not understand this? Do you actually play the game?
Confused? Comprehension?? I put your ratings file in and Mbappe is ranked lower than Kane!! Always funny that you come back with something and its either mad or in this case just what? Mbappe's rating is LOW using your ratings file. Have you even looked????? I think you might even have Giroud higher lol. Its not possible.
You realise a lot of people do things on youtube and its just for views?
Oh well if a youtuber said so!! You have Kane above Mbappe, who isn't in the top10 players?? He is the BEST fast striker in the game and probably best lw with Vini. Ronaldo and Messi aren't that good in FM24!! Kane is better than them. Nor is Lewandowski, the gap between him and Haaland is immense.
Other people with a decent understanding of the game will also say your ratings are dreadful. I always thought you didn't really know what you were doing, you just rehashed a lot of other people’s work, but this is worse than I ever imagined.
Its also hilarious pointing out the difference between Haaland and Mbappe. You reckon??
I strongly caution against attempting to use those 5 last ones in Genie Scout, it's bugged. I tried and it had the opposite effect (bad personality = higher %, when other stats equal). Natural fitness is a visible attribute, but it functions different to the other visible ones in Genie Scout. Don't adjust other hiddens like injury proneness either, and you *may* have fairly accurate results in Genie Scout. Expand
These are probably the worst set of numbers I've ever seen for genie scout. Again you don't understand the game, your testing is dreadful and I don't even understand how anyone can produce numbers like this. And it's for every player? Recently you ridiculed me for saying stamina is important and now you have it eight behind acceleration and pace. How is speed only set to 60??? Reflexes is the lowest attribute for keepers. Lower than metals, jumping reach and technique. This has to be a troll.
Nobody would be using these. Wingers and full backs don't need jumping reach. Mbappe and Salah will produce incredible numbers and they are both low.
More shoddy testing. From someone who thinks, from their testing, tactics are more important than attributes. Didn't have Haaland as the best player. Silly Lockjaw. Jumping reach over reflexes for keepers, maybe it's Bozo. Do those shoes hurt after a few hours? Always wondered that.
dancamp said: for fm24 still -- what's the best/recommended way to use the template ideals for position to search for players? maybe just use the key/green attributes for each position and knock the ratings down until you get a suitable audience pool? Expand
You ignore the key/green attributes. Fastest players possible. Many attributes are useless
You have way too many attributes set to 100. Its only speed and reflexes really. And I dont know how the mental traits work. Given they are are out of 20, how does setting them to 25 work?
DC is the last position that needs stamina as they run much less. They can still perform to a high level late in games.
Jumping reach for keepers is basically irrelevant. It's tied to headers, whereas aerial reach is for catching the ball. Reflexes is the strongest attribute for a keeper. It's why older keepers who start in the game, Oblak for example, are still top, top keepers with lower agility.
As a regular follower of this thread, I’ve grown tired of seeing your constantly argumentative, aggressive posts. The fact that you keep slinging mud at people who are trying to carry out analyses—even if some of them are wrong—without conducting any analysis or testing yourself, and that your posts now make up the bulk of this thread, is becoming highly annoying.
Im sorry you feel that way.
I am merely exposing the truths(something Lockjaw loves and implores others to do) about testing from Lockjaw whilst simultaneously trying not to piss in my own face as they once put it. Its vital work and Im happy to do it. I dont need to do my own testing as others who are good testers have already done it. Using their test results and others before them I made my own weightings and these consistently produce the best results in genie scout. Something Lockjaw cant do and then falsely claims that genie scout is bugged. However he wont say how its bugged. Just another excuse from a long list to cover his rather turgid tracks.
Id say most if not nearly all Bozo's testing is wrong. You'd be a fool to follow any of it. We're now into the realms of speed isn't as important as we, correctly, thought and actually other useless attributes really aren't that far behind it at all. And im the one who is pissing in my own face apparently? Blimey
HarvestGreen's post was 29 March 2026.
15 December 2025:
19 December 2025:
Both in this very thread.
Not that I discovered the effect of pressure of course, I've always credited Orion for that from the get go. My point is that I have long hypothesized that pressure functions as work rate does, and also I think it's fair to say that Orion's findings had been largely ignored and forgotten, so I think I will give myself a pat on the back for breathing fresh life into this piece of knowledge.
Or is keithb going to claim that, as with everything else, everybody already knew pressure was the most important personality attribute?
hahah you literally said after new testing it was worth 52. People knew pressure was important years ago. Anyway yes give yourself a well-deserved pat on the back haha. Bloody Bozo
Anyway are you going to explain how genie scout is bugged? Or is that just another thing you made up to excuse your crap weighting.
The weights are simply their values x 4 right now. So pressure 52/4 = 13. I'm actually yet to test pressure less than 13 yet, I suspect it could drop a point or two. You haven't asked about how weightings should be derived from attribute levels that work, but it touches on the matter. I don't want to get into this anyway, but let's just say there's no one way of approaching it. At the moment, I'm going for a transparent, simple approach, and I will be giving this more thought later. To give you a straightforward example of what I mean, consider pace/acc. 14-15 is necessary to finish ~5th, but a team of 13 will get you relegated. So perhaps one would say let's make that 56 weighting 100 instead, just to ensure you get at least 14 pace/acc. And for pressure, it's 52 weighting, but you only *really* need say ~6-10, with little benefit for 14+, so maybe let's make that 45 instead of 52. In a way that produces better results, but the formula is more opaque and perhaps more whimsical, and yet there are also other downsides/trade-offs too when you start thinking about this deeply.
I think I have accidentally used 4xDC 17 with 2xST (out of 4) 17 and the result wasn't noticeably different (hence I didn't realize until a bit later).
I've answered the balance & dribbling for DC question, it's because the key attributes turn out to be equally essential for all outfield positions.
harvestgreen22 said: The influence of pressure mainly focuses on 1-6. That is, similar to Work Rate, when the pressure is lower than 6, the players will face severe penalties (18.2%).
However, when it is above 6, there are benefits, but the benefits are not as significant (8.9%).
Who knew eh?!?! Once again we thank you for groundbreaking research(which was initially wrong. As always!!!)
Doing this, I found the order of resultant players if different to the order Genie Scout presents, leading me to believe maybe it's factoring in footedness or height or positional familiarity, or maybe just not normalising personality values.
It's clearly doing something right because people have used it for years to build winning teams, I just noted that if you've taken care to tweak the weights then GS is going to do something you can't predict with them.
Thanks a for a decent and genuine reply.
I dont ever set consistency, important matches or any of the hidden with the scoring/weighting. Its not perfect and sometimes I wonder how a physical player isn't rated him. But its definitely accurate, not bugged with the scores and it will identify the elite and world class players if you set it up correctly.
I dont agree that GS is going to do something you cant predict. Again I've never had an issue, never missed a player.
How many goals are these wingers scoring each season from headers?
Looking forward to your file for genie scout that has jumping reach 100 for wingers, 50 for centre backs and 25 for target striker. Sounds great!!
2. Are there any other attributes (just as pressure) which are important but you are not putting them into Genie Scout's calculations? I mean what else attributes (besides pressure) we need to manually filter them?
3. You use two ST with jump 17 to do the test, not DC, Did you ever use two DC with jumping 17 or 18 to test it?
4. Why give so much weight to balance and dribbling for DC?
There's no way that pressure is eight behind speed. But then in the latest file it seems a lot of attributes are, which is simply not right. Speed is still so superior to every other attribute, or even 2-3 attributes combined, that you can't take these tests seriously.
Centre backs should have decent balance, it's another attribute every player should have a decent amount of, but they don't need dribbling. Dribbling is for wingers, 10's and full backs and fast strikers. Why you would want your centre back dribbling up the pitch I have no idea. Dribbling is strong in FM 24 for attacking. Speed is still more important but the truly elite wingers will have high dribbling, balance and agility.
If you have fast player's you won't get relegated if your centre backs have 13 jumping reach. Just more bonus testing. Recently Lockjaw ridiculed me for saying stamina was important in certain positions. Now he has the set at 52 also. He doesn't know what he's doing and changes his mind from tests using Knapp's best formations and blue set pieces. You can sometimes get Luton into Europe using that setup with no transfers. I mean come on.
You never answer any questions. How exactly is genie scout bugged? It clearly isn't. Just your ratings are awful and you don't understand how to use it. So you make a claim that it's broken as it couldn't possibly be anything to do with you.
Your understanding is really outdated.
Hahaha. How is it bugged exactly?
Because it has always worked fine for me. It still does. Both players and the club ratings.
Anything on the other points regarding how badly you rate players? Because using scoring that is accurate to how FM plays Mbappe would be the second to third highest rated player and Yamal would be better than Muller and Kanye on the wing.
Then we have Mbappe only rated 78/80 which is crazy and Yamal with a potential of only 75. He isn't the best rw in the game, but really 75?? Thomas Muller is rated higher than him for rw. How can this be serious? Kante is rated 74!!! Surely Yamal reaching his potential is better than those two?
How do you not understand this? Do you actually play the game?
The reason your ratings are so bad in genie scout is because they are. Blaming genie scout for your ratings is clutching for straws.
You have a very poor understanding of testing and Football Manager the game. Its ridiculous.
You realise a lot of people do things on youtube and its just for views?
Other people with a decent understanding of the game will also say your ratings are dreadful. I always thought you didn't really know what you were doing, you just rehashed a lot of other people’s work, but this is worse than I ever imagined.
Its also hilarious pointing out the difference between Haaland and Mbappe. You reckon??
Dribbling 52
Aggression 44
Anticipation 52
Composure 44
Concentration 52
Determination 56
Work Rate 44
Acceleration 60
Agility 40
Balance 48
Jumping Reach 52 (68 for DC & Target Man)
Pace 60
Stamina 52
GK:
Concentration 52
Determination 52
Acceleration 52
Agility 56
Jumping Reach 56
Pace 52
First Touch 52
Technique 52
Aerial Ability 56
Command of Area 48
Reflexes 44
For both:
Important Matches 52
Natural Fitness 48
Consistency 52
Pressure 52
Professionalism 52
I strongly caution against attempting to use those 5 last ones in Genie Scout, it's bugged. I tried and it had the opposite effect (bad personality = higher %, when other stats equal). Natural fitness is a visible attribute, but it functions different to the other visible ones in Genie Scout. Don't adjust other hiddens like injury proneness either, and you *may* have fairly accurate results in Genie Scout.
These are probably the worst set of numbers I've ever seen for genie scout. Again you don't understand the game, your testing is dreadful and I don't even understand how anyone can produce numbers like this. And it's for every player? Recently you ridiculed me for saying stamina is important and now you have it eight behind acceleration and pace. How is speed only set to 60??? Reflexes is the lowest attribute for keepers. Lower than metals, jumping reach and technique. This has to be a troll.
Nobody would be using these. Wingers and full backs don't need jumping reach. Mbappe and Salah will produce incredible numbers and they are both low.
You ignore the key/green attributes. Fastest players possible. Many attributes are useless
Look at these;
https://fm-arena.com/thread/14009-attribute-testing-football-manager-24/
https://fm-arena.com/thread/18816-fm24-i-re-tested-the-goalkeeper-s-attributes-using-newer-test-league/
https://fm-arena.com/thread/13685-current-24-4-latest-version-full-attribute-test-52000-match-samples/
You have also underrated other physicals
Jumping reach for keepers is basically irrelevant. It's tied to headers, whereas aerial reach is for catching the ball. Reflexes is the strongest attribute for a keeper. It's why older keepers who start in the game, Oblak for example, are still top, top keepers with lower agility.