crosseyed said: Half the community already complains about ai adapting to thier tactics when that isn’t even a mechanic, lol.

And we do expect SI, to filtrer all the garbage is coming towards them...
crosseyed said: I personally was most hoping for the ai managers to be more competent since that is definitely a weak spot, but to perhaps no surprise, like other more vague new features they promote there isn’t really a noticeable difference. My last FM was 21 so there’s a pretty big improvement to 24 for me so I can’t speak to the year on year upgrade. I do agree that the matches look a lot better though.

We don't know yet, what they did with AI, let's see, but believe me , if they make it too "adaptative", 99% of the community will start the process = cry like no toworrow. I am now re-working all the Set pieces, because they had the brilliant idea to put 5 man on near post :woot:
Still i don't know what you guys expect from this anymore.

Still if i have to trade 10 goals from corners for this gameplay i will do even for 20 goals less from corners, no regrets. IF now they gonna make possession basic tactics better, i would be very happy with this FM24.
dzek said: For anyone who understands football will know that Gegenpress on FM has nothing to do with reality. It works completely differently. In real life players don't need that much stamina because if the pressing is effective then the team playing that style will have more possession and in football the team chasing the ball tires more than the other team. Liverpool and City are examples. Also you can't play Gegenpress when you have attacking width in fairly wide or even worse with wide. One last thing high press in FM has nothing to do with high press in reality.

Why are you still bring-in "in-real football", I believe FIFA should be the "realistic" game and even tho i never played it i am sure of it is far from it.

If you believe that gegen doesn't need stamina ok, i am not gonna stop you, you choose your words, don't say again we "misunderstood", i mean you could name everything, but stamina won your prize.
You didn't define what is for you stamina, so i let it, but literally, instead to go ask to SI boys, go to any amateur player and ask him, "how much stamina do you need in order to play".

P.S. Every style almost need stamina, but as i said i am not here to convince none.

Do you even know, how much a player run around the pich every games?

Pressing can be "man" or "zonal", It's liverpool playing narrow, or city? I am totaly blind i was sure they almost play around the touch lines, i am lost in here.

Did you even played a season on this M.E. and watched the extended highlights, i do suggest all of you, instead of your 2D, because it's clear that you don't even know what you talking about at this point.

Did you saw Pool vs Brighton? I mean literally they were pressing them for 90' minutes their defenders, if you believe that's require no much stamina or width, something is wrong.

Avenger22 said: Gegenpress is a completely misused term mainly from fans and pundits, it means counter-press basically pressing the counter so instead of running back to defend the counter you press like maniac for 5-10 s after you lose the ball, dortmund is first famous to do it with klopp in a very specific way.
Before that ofc many counter-press teams but none like that dortmund which had training drills and everything tailored for that 5-10s window, i have no idea why the gegenpress for most people is highpressing like without the ball that is a different concept and thing, that is just high pressing which has always been in football, they associate gegenpress with highpressing when in reality gegenpressing is just counter-press thats it a transition moment.

That's it! but Klopp made it a bit different to "how often" it was triggered but w/e. You can define it with OI's.

here a video, 3 minutes

Back in-game, who said that mid-block ain't working? How did you tried to make it work? I can tell you that much lower is a bit meh, but mid-block is pretty fine.

Point is where you gonna fight to get the ball-back, if you win it back on the middle you will still need to face-off the defenders, if you win it on oppo defenders you will create vs GK situation.
That's the difference.

Why do you believe middle block should be more efficient then High one?

If you care about 1 point of test league, that's your problem none forced you, but saying "doesn't work, because on arena test isn't giving same results, you do understand your self.

If you play high-pressing LOE vs City/Pool or those elite teams with aliens BPDs, it's your choice.

It's since EPL started to shine again, that the game went more on physical attributes, that's a fact, you don't only need to be good on tecnical aspect but even physical one.

I mean, before de Zerbi went to Brighton, now seriously who the hell believed that those players could play that kind of football? So it's not impossible to achieve that but to make it shining you need what? Better players.

Mourinho, the most boring game-style(and i am Romanista), but he can win and achieve success with it. But with super good players he can demolish a league. With Roma he can't because MissingPoint = good players.

I am playing since some days, trying now de zerbi, now they made like hell to reproduce his build-up not even know why, at least on FM23 we could achieve something similar, now the GK is totaly cut-off from the build-up.

But if people come and tell me if FM20-21-22-23 are even near to FM24 i would tell em, hell no.

Player interaction is just better, everything around the gameplay is better.

---FM in nutshell---

It's far from good? Yes
It's far from balanced? Yes
Who cares? Yes
We buy it? Yes

When i play that is for fun, if i want to compete, i just go to MTGA.

Now ask your self what do you want from this game-flight simulator.

Edit :

I went to check the features ( didn't even know they were doing this sort of adv) :

Signficant enhancements to player movement, ball physics and lighting level up the drama of matchday, creating the most immersive and best-looking match engine to date.

-That's is working, it's the thing i am talking about and make "FM24 unique".

Make an impact at both ends of the pitch with a new-look Set Piece Creator, powered by brand-new Set Piece Coaches who will support by crafting the perfect routines.

-This is discutibile, very shitty the system, for me is far from "newbie user" but w/e.

Showcase your skills in the most refined transfer market to date, and prepare to battle for talent against more intelligent rival managers, who will push you harder in the hunt for players.

- For now i did noticed nothing regarding this, it's the same as FM23, didn't play that long to so if AI is smarter like they stating.

Overhaul your squad and increase your transfer budget with new Intermediary agents and increased options for moving on unwanted players to help fund your rebuild.

- ?????

There seem like to read Jdaily with his "META OP 20 RATE points Tactics".

Now tell me if i am missing something... What do you guys did expect from FM24?
Blau said: At the end of the day Football Manager is a videogame. If you do not enjoy playing the game then don't buy it. Not giving your money to SI will do more for changes you want then complaining on random forum. It is impossible for developers to make a video game that makes everyone happy. You as the consumer have to make the decision if the game is worth it for you to buy. I'm not saying you can't suggest improvements to the game. However, saying that the game is too easy is ironic. It's literally as difficult as you want it to be. Obviously, if you use or test tactics on FMArena it's going to be easy.

Make Blau my president.
ZaZ said: Players gain fatigue when they train and when they play. It is around 100-200 during a full match, from a scale of fatigue that goes from -500 to 1000. During training, it depends on intensity. Low fatigue is the range between 1 and 399.

I will test it thoroughly to see exactly how much it increases per training session and per match, and what attributes affect it, but that will take a while.

Resting after matches will benefit the player in the long run. In short, playing increases attributes more than training, and resting to full allows them to be used more often. Also, training with lower condition increases the number of injuries, which hinder player growth.

Anyway, it is important to say that fatigue also affects injuries, and players with "low" fatigue get injured less than fresh players during matches.

it's literally very affascinating.

For example here i didn't "manually rest the players" and N'dicka is totaly asking me for mercy.

the rest of the players are ok tho :

That's the routine :

About individual players growth, there are many factors that are impacting on it, some players skyrocketing their PA and some others not, and now that i am writing the the ones that are literally struggling are the defenders.

I never  tracked those things before, are just numbers that i do literally check for fun with FMRTE, i will start to track those CA/PA more accurately.

Will see how to build some python scripts to make it automatizzated.
Blau said:

Seems like the recovery sessions slow down the recovery of physical condition and fatigue compared to just rest. What they actually do is slow down the loss of match sharpness. The recovery session's "benefit" is most likely to maintain match sharpness at less of a cost to condition/fatigue recovery compared to a normal training session. 

I wonder if it is best for fatigue purposes to have a training intensity schedule that is mostly no pitch or gym work besides the full heart condition. Loss of match sharpness is irrelevant if your team usually plays two matches a week.

it's basically 2 malus and 1 positive, will try to swap those recovery into rest at this point and will tell ya

Edit :

I don't know if anyone tested team cohesion (to me is pretty cosmetic stuff, but you never know, i might check it if none did)

Gonna try this one to check if i can keep now players condition without 1 day rest
ZaZ said: The difference on win rate is pretty massive. I will soon post a graph showing the win rate difference for different levels of fatigue.

Ok after you mentionated the "fatigue", now all first XI went to Fatigue low ( but i didn't literally did nothing).

This is what i do :

- Rest first eleven for 1 day if i have 2-3 games in 1 week (i literally select them and rest them 1 day)

it's literally a tweak from cadoni2, this way i do believe i can keep the players condition(might be very wrong), otherwise i need to rest them for 2 days etc. I didn't check yours yet, but literally i am just worried about condition of the players. (usually i play with 11 core-players and 6-7 subs, all are wonderkids)

But if isn't the training, what's triggering the low "fatigue"? Just playing games?
ZaZ said: Nah, I usually play all the matches normally (only key moments). If you do 40-2 shots and cannot win, then you are just getting FMed.

I will do more experiments with training schedule later, after the results from fatigue. In short, players with "fresh" fatigue perform much worse than those with "low" fatigue (which perform much better than those getting fatigued or fatigued), which is how FM simulates the conditioning of muscles. The ideal training schedule should finish the pre-season with "low" fatigue, and keep it at that level during the whole season, so I will have to account fatigue gained during training, matches, and rotation.

oh god, i always have my kids on fresh fatigue :woot: , but they perfom pretty good.

I need to check yours i guess, i am working around a tweak of cadoni's, and condition is pretty okay, but still if i don't rest them 1 day, they will start to collapse

Edit :

just checked on my first 11, 5 are low and 6 fresh...
:blink: very useful i guess
letsgo9 said: which of these wont count then?

Take more risk = pass into space

Dribble more = Run at defence but is not applied on Defence Zone

"Stay wider/Stay Narrower" : i am don't really sure my self if the TI will influencing it or it's more "gamble meta"

Move into channel seem given from RAD as well.
hziz1 said: pace and acceleration  had a huge impact on results over the years, with a 25-30 GD improved so far. I'd like to ask if it's possible to refine the pace/acceleration test to each individual position after other attribute tests, such as adding 5 pace WITH 5 acceleration(or just 5 pace or 5 acceleration) to two IFs or BPDs or DMs or WBs or two attacking players. so that after 5 or 10 rounds of testing, we can rely on the data to tell us which position is more dependent on pace/acceleration improvement. IT'S ALSO IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT BECAUSE OF THE CHANGE IN THE SET-PIECE SYSTEM IN FM24, I THINK IT'S  LUXURY TO ADD 5 VERTICAL TO ALL POSITIONS(when we playing the game,DM&WB'S VERTICAL seems not that important but we really need one guy to score the headers in setpiece ), SO ADDING 5 VERTICAL TO THE TOP TWO "AERIAL THREATS" IN THE TEAM MAY HAVE A SAME BIG IMPACT AS PACE AND ACCELERATION

If by vertical you mean height CM/" ; doesn't matter the "height" but the jumping reach. Even tho Height and JR are "linked", you won't really find short players with high jumping reach attribute.
ZaZ said: He explains at minute 2:55.

ZaZ said: The shape is irrelevant. We did run the same setup in both neutral and home grounds, so we could use neutral results for control. Below is a table showing rate of win, draw, lose, points per match, goals per match, and difference in points. You can clearly see that the tactics are evenly matched at neutral grounds, and the team playing at home always have the advantage. However, the defensive tactic is detrimental to performance when playing away from home.

I didn't saw that from the video, maybe i went blind, can you explain me how you guys setuped it? Because to me something seem off, i mean :

- did you simulated and reloeaded? (for 500times each_category) without freezing?

If you are after shape system is a thing, but mentalities play their role as well, i mean if you do that in a normal game scenario, in order to sustain a full attacking-gunho tactic you need to rest players for 2-3 days (exagerating), literally the players can't sustain it, i am getting difficulties playing balanced (talking about energies/condition), and i do use gun-ho when i want to score or all-in.

I was even tracking home and away results, and never happened that some tactics gave more then 1-3 more wins compared to others on away games, but that's was for FM23, i will redo that for FM25 i guess.

Btw let me know, ofc if you want, how the test was setuped, i might make some scripts for that in the future.
ZaZ said: Using a more defensive tactic than your opponent, away from home, is detrimental to win rate. It is fine if you want to decrease the chance to concede goals, but it does not increase the chance of winning or scoring points overall. Check more about that in the video below.

Interesting, for me there is something you guys should've considered :

When you compare 2 tactics, setup etc, i would even consider if 4222N counter 3421, like the results where altered because 4222 counter 3421 instance first of all.

Just trying to give you some thoughts to think about.

Hope it can helps for future projects!
dzek said: The most "complete" comment I have read so far on the state of FM in recent years and beyond.. :shock:

You can read it here -

Read some comments there, I just literally can't understand, do people understand what Meta means?
When I read people saying, I can't win something on inside my brain start to glitching...

Who said you are forced to play gegen press? Will explain again, you people can play everything, what you need understand is :

Learn how to pick your players, if you build wonderkids team your bound to eat the Europe alive at a point for multiple years. I mean now i didn't check even squirrel python thing be cause if people are willing to do that I can't understand what's the difference to use genie scout or fmrte.

The real problem of FM is that's its not like a e-sport, if we had something like Fifa or whatever is called that you can play pvp and earn points, or putting a rank system idk, people would literally go crazy and that's where you will try to build even more meta tactic but even counters etc. Yet we don't know if catanaccio can win vs a supergegen 8000 points testing league, because we don't have a fast environment to check those stuff if SI put something like a rank PVP system, you will see 90% of those tactics made to challenge the AI/Bot you name it, would go into trashcan.

I do agree about stats interaction, are totally no-sense from A to Z or why training doesn't affect that much your players growth,but more hidden attributes does, they could just explain how some mechanics works and that's it.

But if people saying Fm24 isn't best of the serie idk what you guys expect from it in first place.

And be careful about dreaming about unity-Fm25, cuz it's gonna be a mess.
Here is the SI announcement for those who have not read it.
Good afternoon,
We would like to thank everyone in the community who have given us feedback on Football Manager 2024 to date.

Content Update – Early December

We are working extremely hard behind the scenes ahead of our next content update with an early December target-date to address some of the feedback we have received including:

- Improvements to AI team selection , substitutions logic & transfer behavior
- Further updates to the match engine
- Updates to player interactions

- Quality of life improvements
- Additional stability updates & bug fixes
- Localization fixes and updates
- Data and competition updates

Please stay tuned for further updates, we will be able to confirm the final change list and update information closer to the time.

Thank you for your patience and continued support.

Any thoughts?

oh god, let's pray altogheter they don't mess it up then
NandaldiaN said: @Delicious what do you mean with team building? like team cohesion?

this what i mean :D
Fisniku said: Thats the point Seniore Delicious, thats why I always followed your youtube channel because you explained it in details that " ONE " tactic might work better than a 65-66 tactic here....

I will make all those builds, unfortunaly they delivered me a burned moba today, so i wasted 8 hours for nothing ._. .
Fisniku said: Did  u do your own tests delicious, I used to watch ur youtube channel religiously !

Is there any chance to have a " poacher " tactic btw ?

Those tactics are being tested on my own "test league" where is an environment 140 CA vs 160 Elite as well, i am doing paralel test on mine and Arena to check even where they diverge etc.

Point is if we follow "Meta" role, and you aim for high scoring "points" poacher build, it will score maybe 50-52 here. It's like -1/2/3 point less then AF i will use it for Pep Recreation, where Haaland play at least for me Poacher. But ain't gonna be a "meta" tactic, it's gonna be more about team building and player selection.

toonarmy0511 said: Would be nice if you also test this with other team that's not too overpowered. To be fair any tactics would look good when using manchester city or liverpool or PSG

I am making for tactic preview 3 runs with Luton/Everton/City and those are not test, it's most likely to give you an idea.

letsgo9 said: there are 50 points tactic that managed to get UCL with Luton

This -^ is what you guys need to understand, Ranking/number alot of blabering inside is something that will not always drive you to get "fun", if you want to win you can select any tactic above 55 i guess on FMarena's Table.

But if you don't understand how to team building, you will get stomped otherwise.

I am at the moment assembling my new PC so one will doing 24/7 test and with this i will finally start some in-game understanding, didn't even play a game yet.

From my discord i can see tons of people getting success with a tactic that maybe will score 40-45 on any test league.
FM24 4132 Extreme  IV