letsgo9 said: Hey guys EBFM just launched a new video ^^ Pretty interesting
Expand
So now the next one, is gonna say that tempo or mentalities influeting on the OPC, is getting slapped? Not even the pressing seem to influencing it 😂
He should've checked with counter-press on, so we might understand how SI's logic works on the matter... Even tho pretty sure doesn't even matter
pixar said: I've been using this since you posted it. But with 24.2.0, I feel like its efficiency has dropped by half. Does the same thing happen to you? Expand That's why you getting less effective, i did already patched it, released to my patreons first, will release the new one in 1-2 days.
I didn't really check with Pio-Terminator but can say before was 30-40 the min and max.
Avenger22 said: It is in the patch note the fix for defending headers in own area, apart from that nothing ME open play, but they have confirmed reducing goals from many tests but curious how can you reduce from 3.15 to 2.8 goals average without ME open play fixes maybe set pieces which are huge in FM in terms of goals may have been toned down so it is bit better zero idea tbf Expand
That was pre-patch with Pio-Terminator, i am using a control-possession based on de Zerbi, even tho they quite made mission impossible to recreate now the build-up. He did like 45 goals from corners on 2nd season.
I already found a new way for corners to score at least 20+ goals but what's strange are the min. and max that are going between 25 to 37. Literally their "hotfix" was this :
The image speak it self, i don't know if that's normal or people will start to understand what i mean by i can't expect less than this
Avenger22 said: An admin from them in the general thread replied to me that no attacking movement and stuff like that has been altered even under the hood, because i mostly asked about movement and ME more general stuff, there was a fix for defending in own area for crosses something like that Expand
As even sponsor said, i was like, did i smoke something different or something ain't quite right here... But still isn't very professional to change your patch "sneaky sneaky" like that..
sponsorkindest said: damn, offensive tactics took a hit, it feels like though there was nothing called out in the patch notes Expand
I was sure there was a voice saying : Reduced "goal scoring overall", now can't find it anymore, from that seem they have just fixed AI behavior on defending phase. Which is the case, is totaly dumb.
Now that i am reading more, there are MANY voices that got changed from the first "patch note", pretty sure there was something even about ball deflection etc. Didn't know they would alterate it, or i would've made a SS ...
I was sure they nerfed the overall goal scoring output (AI/Player).
Mark said: My suggestion is to focus on the positive and let go of the negative. I am not taking sides. Many of your comments in other topics have been very positive. @Delicious work and analysis has been exceptional over the last few years. Work together to improve the experience for the community not against it. Expand
Ye, i do understand that's useless to even go futher on gegenpress point, if he still can't understand how demanding gegen-press is/was isn't really my problem at this point.
- If people waste more time to check in-game what's going on and before to spouting a sentence, i wouldn't even say nothing. But that's not the case, usually my motto is "let them be".
So @dzek, will try to sentence this in a very easy concept :
YOU, after your favorite "company" announced while FM23 was running, FM25-Unity revolution - tons of marketing blabering, hold on , what about FM24?
It was like, marketing speaking they said : another "database Update" ; you can accept or deny it.
So, for me is already more then what i was literally expecting from the very beginning.
Now, you were attracted from their FM24 marketing campain, you are right about: you want what they promissed, i don't even know which point of their missing feature is disturbing you that much, to go nuts, but in a perfect world you would be right, but that's far from perfect.
- They already, mess-up again the "condition of players". IF gegen-press is so low-demanding system on stamina, why it affect like that in game then?
Who should i thank for that? You? But from my little understanding you saying the contrary, so it's hard to believe that they listening your "reports".
Do you believe that's is easy task to filtrer all the pile of feedback they receiving from their clients pool?
After you answear to your self this point, let go to the next one : How much of those feedback are considerated "garbage" to them? Why should i (SI company) should i listen to you instead of another client, in reality why should i even consider "feedbacks" when i have all my well paid testers.
Guess going any further then this is pretty time wasting.
dzek said: Im talking about real life football because SI wants FM to be as true as real football.
If a team has a successful pressing system then logically they will have the ball in their possession more of the time. Who gets more tired? The year Liverpool won the league they played full pressing and literally played the whole season with 13-15 players. Did they turn into gods or were they all doped up? The following years were not the same. But why? Because they didn't have an effective press and players started getting tired/injured because the runs increased.
Pressing man and zonal? This is the first time I've ever heard of such a thing in football. Gegenpress brother is the COUNTER-PRESS! To make this possible, your forward and midfield players needs to get on the side of the ball as soon as they lose the ball. You even posted the video but you probably didn't even see it. Screenshot from the video you sent above.
Try to understand first how Gegenpress works and then come and talk to me. I'm talking and explaining what Gegenpress does without possession and you're just talking whatever you want.
How can a team do a COUNTER-PRESS with full width? Can you explain that to me?
Also when Liverpool have possession of the ball (54%) who will run more? Brighton or Liverpool? When City have the ball and play those simple passes around the box which team have to run more? Which team need more stamina?
Read what Avenger22 said here. Expand
So, you are a sheep because SI said it on their advertisement. Perfect at least i know to whom i am refering to.
Let's start go first a bit ironic, because seem you literally have no idea what you talking about, but it's funny tho :
Check this on min 4:43 ; couldn't find a full match, it would be educational for you. But at least you can understand something about pressing and High - LOE ; You can understand that they were targeting their build-up ;
Here you can understand what i mean by zonal and man counter-pressing :
You can press an area/zone before the ball goes to player, so in my head the coach is telling them to press a specific zone of the pitch. (Maybe that's already too advanced lesson for you but i am trying my best)
Klopp's interview :
Liverpool tallied 116km in total at White Hart Lane and, in doing so, became the first side to clock up more distance than Spurs so far this term.
“We need to have a plan and that’s what we are trying to do, but we don’t have to run 150km a game to be successful - we have to be prepared for each style we want to do.
“There is always talk about, ‘Can they do this every three days?’ Yes, of course we need healthy players, but we don’t kill the players – we train with them and they have the confidence and physical skills to do this because they are young, healthy and professionals.
“We ran 116km against Tottenham. There were 5km that were not useful and we did them – but we did them because we wanted to. It was not the most clever thing, but now we can try to turn the screws and do it in the right way, in the right moment, with better timing and [being] cooler with the ball. It will get better and better and better.
“If you play against a much better team and are not ready to run more than they are, then you are crazy. Tottenham have been together for a long time – they are stable with results and performances – so we had to give them problems, and that’s what we tried to do.
-------
- If i want to focus their DS/DD or in a simple way their flanks, what do you believe i will do? If you can't focus their flanks with your "counter-press", maybe you are not quite in the game.
I am sure you can find materials about that, it's not necessary Klopp that did that. But once again seem you are a wikipedia of Football, which make me smile, since till this point you make no basic sense to me.
Like i can apply pressing only on central zone, but i am sure you didn't mean that, once again i do hope.
Even tho you don't believe me and your really senteced it very wrong in first place, YOU NEED STAMINA IN ANY KIND OF SYSTEM YOU PLAY.
Let's beside that possession tactics like Pep are based to make the opponents run alot, but if they running maybe there is a reason :
-Are they trying to win the ball back? So, it's a counter-press? -Are they just covering for a mistake? What's that then?
Do you believe if i don't apply pressure to your players, i will run more then you? If i do apply pressure on some zone instead of others etc will i?
Now before you do, you can come at me, saying that Klopp changed the way of how he APPLY PRESSURE and tempo and even system-up(after that,if you want to understand that there is more then just "counter-pressing phase", good for you, since basically his players are not "fresh" like before). I will not open now another wall about tempo, because you could've mentionated it from the start so i guess you believe is a full-throttle game and runs only one team.
Instead of Sacking him, they let him evolve his way, like is very interesting how he evolved it nowdays.
I trully believe at this point that even you can understand this simple point : If a youtuber can analyze his basic system to explain why it was getting countered SO HARD last season, i believe everyone can understand it. There are some many phases in the game, but learning basic is the first step.
But let's say you are right and whatever, how do you believe moving 3/4 players to get the ball back doesn't involve player's stamina is a unknow concept to me, didn't know running for 12-15kms, was so stamina free, will start tomorrow maybe i can do 1km since my stamina is almost 0.
Last tip about full width-fairly width "pressing" ; IF your winger is playing narrow, what you gonna do? Passing to the ball to WB L/R seem very easy solution to me, since the guy runned like a wild dog in the center to get the ball back. I do believe there is more to the plate, like Klopp : YO, SALAH LET's PLAY MORE NEAR THE LINE MAN They found out our weakness!
To conclude this wall of text, if you believe apply all those mechanics is simple matter, i do literally suggest you to open your own company and run your IRL-Simulator.
crosseyed said: I personally was most hoping for the ai managers to be more competent since that is definitely a weak spot, but to perhaps no surprise, like other more vague new features they promote there isn’t really a noticeable difference. My last FM was 21 so there’s a pretty big improvement to 24 for me so I can’t speak to the year on year upgrade. I do agree that the matches look a lot better though. Expand
We don't know yet, what they did with AI, let's see, but believe me , if they make it too "adaptative", 99% of the community will start the process = cry like no toworrow. I am now re-working all the Set pieces, because they had the brilliant idea to put 5 man on near post Still i don't know what you guys expect from this anymore.
Still if i have to trade 10 goals from corners for this gameplay i will do even for 20 goals less from corners, no regrets. IF now they gonna make possession basic tactics better, i would be very happy with this FM24.
dzek said: For anyone who understands football will know that Gegenpress on FM has nothing to do with reality. It works completely differently. In real life players don't need that much stamina because if the pressing is effective then the team playing that style will have more possession and in football the team chasing the ball tires more than the other team. Liverpool and City are examples. Also you can't play Gegenpress when you have attacking width in fairly wide or even worse with wide. One last thing high press in FM has nothing to do with high press in reality. Expand
Why are you still bring-in "in-real football", I believe FIFA should be the "realistic" game and even tho i never played it i am sure of it is far from it.
If you believe that gegen doesn't need stamina ok, i am not gonna stop you, you choose your words, don't say again we "misunderstood", i mean you could name everything, but stamina won your prize. You didn't define what is for you stamina, so i let it, but literally, instead to go ask to SI boys, go to any amateur player and ask him, "how much stamina do you need in order to play".
P.S. Every style almost need stamina, but as i said i am not here to convince none.
Do you even know, how much a player run around the pich every games?
Pressing can be "man" or "zonal", It's liverpool playing narrow, or city? I am totaly blind i was sure they almost play around the touch lines, i am lost in here.
Did you even played a season on this M.E. and watched the extended highlights, i do suggest all of you, instead of your 2D, because it's clear that you don't even know what you talking about at this point.
Did you saw Pool vs Brighton? I mean literally they were pressing them for 90' minutes their defenders, if you believe that's require no much stamina or width, something is wrong.
Avenger22 said: Gegenpress is a completely misused term mainly from fans and pundits, it means counter-press basically pressing the counter so instead of running back to defend the counter you press like maniac for 5-10 s after you lose the ball, dortmund is first famous to do it with klopp in a very specific way. Before that ofc many counter-press teams but none like that dortmund which had training drills and everything tailored for that 5-10s window, i have no idea why the gegenpress for most people is highpressing like without the ball that is a different concept and thing, that is just high pressing which has always been in football, they associate gegenpress with highpressing when in reality gegenpressing is just counter-press thats it a transition moment. Expand
That's it! but Klopp made it a bit different to "how often" it was triggered but w/e. You can define it with OI's.
here a video, 3 minutes
Back in-game, who said that mid-block ain't working? How did you tried to make it work? I can tell you that much lower is a bit meh, but mid-block is pretty fine.
Point is where you gonna fight to get the ball-back, if you win it back on the middle you will still need to face-off the defenders, if you win it on oppo defenders you will create vs GK situation. That's the difference.
Why do you believe middle block should be more efficient then High one?
If you care about 1 point of test league, that's your problem none forced you, but saying "doesn't work, because on arena test isn't giving same results, you do understand your self.
If you play high-pressing LOE vs City/Pool or those elite teams with aliens BPDs, it's your choice.
It's since EPL started to shine again, that the game went more on physical attributes, that's a fact, you don't only need to be good on tecnical aspect but even physical one.
I mean, before de Zerbi went to Brighton, now seriously who the hell believed that those players could play that kind of football? So it's not impossible to achieve that but to make it shining you need what? Better players.
Mourinho, the most boring game-style(and i am Romanista), but he can win and achieve success with it. But with super good players he can demolish a league. With Roma he can't because MissingPoint = good players.
I am playing since some days, trying now de zerbi, now they made like hell to reproduce his build-up not even know why, at least on FM23 we could achieve something similar, now the GK is totaly cut-off from the build-up.
But if people come and tell me if FM20-21-22-23 are even near to FM24 i would tell em, hell no.
Player interaction is just better, everything around the gameplay is better.
---FM in nutshell---
It's far from good? Yes It's far from balanced? Yes Who cares? Yes We buy it? Yes
When i play that is for fun, if i want to compete, i just go to MTGA.
Now ask your self what do you want from this game-flight simulator.
Edit :
I went to check the features ( didn't even know they were doing this sort of adv) :
TRUER FOOTBALL MOTION Signficant enhancements to player movement, ball physics and lighting level up the drama of matchday, creating the most immersive and best-looking match engine to date.
-That's is working, it's the thing i am talking about and make "FM24 unique".
DOMINATE FROM SET PIECES Make an impact at both ends of the pitch with a new-look Set Piece Creator, powered by brand-new Set Piece Coaches who will support by crafting the perfect routines.
-This is discutibile, very shitty the system, for me is far from "newbie user" but w/e.
BRACE FOR TRANSFER BATTLES Showcase your skills in the most refined transfer market to date, and prepare to battle for talent against more intelligent rival managers, who will push you harder in the hunt for players.
- For now i did noticed nothing regarding this, it's the same as FM23, didn't play that long to so if AI is smarter like they stating.
OFFLOAD PLAYERS WITH NEW AGENTS Overhaul your squad and increase your transfer budget with new Intermediary agents and increased options for moving on unwanted players to help fund your rebuild.
- ?????
There seem like to read Jdaily with his "META OP 20 RATE points Tactics".
Now tell me if i am missing something... What do you guys did expect from FM24?
Blau said: At the end of the day Football Manager is a videogame. If you do not enjoy playing the game then don't buy it. Not giving your money to SI will do more for changes you want then complaining on random forum. It is impossible for developers to make a video game that makes everyone happy. You as the consumer have to make the decision if the game is worth it for you to buy. I'm not saying you can't suggest improvements to the game. However, saying that the game is too easy is ironic. It's literally as difficult as you want it to be. Obviously, if you use or test tactics on FMArena it's going to be easy. Expand
ZaZ said: Players gain fatigue when they train and when they play. It is around 100-200 during a full match, from a scale of fatigue that goes from -500 to 1000. During training, it depends on intensity. Low fatigue is the range between 1 and 399.
I will test it thoroughly to see exactly how much it increases per training session and per match, and what attributes affect it, but that will take a while.
Resting after matches will benefit the player in the long run. In short, playing increases attributes more than training, and resting to full allows them to be used more often. Also, training with lower condition increases the number of injuries, which hinder player growth.
Anyway, it is important to say that fatigue also affects injuries, and players with "low" fatigue get injured less than fresh players during matches. Expand
it's literally very affascinating.
For example here i didn't "manually rest the players" and N'dicka is totaly asking me for mercy.
the rest of the players are ok tho :
That's the routine :
About individual players growth, there are many factors that are impacting on it, some players skyrocketing their PA and some others not, and now that i am writing the the ones that are literally struggling are the defenders.
I never tracked those things before, are just numbers that i do literally check for fun with FMRTE, i will start to track those CA/PA more accurately.
Will see how to build some python scripts to make it automatizzated.
Seems like the recovery sessions slow down the recovery of physical condition and fatigue compared to just rest. What they actually do is slow down the loss of match sharpness. The recovery session's "benefit" is most likely to maintain match sharpness at less of a cost to condition/fatigue recovery compared to a normal training session.
I wonder if it is best for fatigue purposes to have a training intensity schedule that is mostly no pitch or gym work besides the full heart condition. Loss of match sharpness is irrelevant if your team usually plays two matches a week. Expand
it's basically 2 malus and 1 positive, will try to swap those recovery into rest at this point and will tell ya
Edit :
I don't know if anyone tested team cohesion (to me is pretty cosmetic stuff, but you never know, i might check it if none did)
Gonna try this one to check if i can keep now players condition without 1 day rest
ZaZ said: The difference on win rate is pretty massive. I will soon post a graph showing the win rate difference for different levels of fatigue. Expand
Ok after you mentionated the "fatigue", now all first XI went to Fatigue low ( but i didn't literally did nothing).
This is what i do :
- Rest first eleven for 1 day if i have 2-3 games in 1 week (i literally select them and rest them 1 day)
it's literally a tweak from cadoni2, this way i do believe i can keep the players condition(might be very wrong), otherwise i need to rest them for 2 days etc. I didn't check yours yet, but literally i am just worried about condition of the players. (usually i play with 11 core-players and 6-7 subs, all are wonderkids)
But if isn't the training, what's triggering the low "fatigue"? Just playing games?
ZaZ said: Nah, I usually play all the matches normally (only key moments). If you do 40-2 shots and cannot win, then you are just getting FMed.
I will do more experiments with training schedule later, after the results from fatigue. In short, players with "fresh" fatigue perform much worse than those with "low" fatigue (which perform much better than those getting fatigued or fatigued), which is how FM simulates the conditioning of muscles. The ideal training schedule should finish the pre-season with "low" fatigue, and keep it at that level during the whole season, so I will have to account fatigue gained during training, matches, and rotation. Expand
oh god, i always have my kids on fresh fatigue , but they perfom pretty good.
I need to check yours i guess, i am working around a tweak of cadoni's, and condition is pretty okay, but still if i don't rest them 1 day, they will start to collapse
Edit :
just checked on my first 11, 5 are low and 6 fresh...
Pretty interesting
So now the next one, is gonna say that tempo or mentalities influeting on the OPC, is getting slapped? Not even the pressing seem to influencing it 😂
He should've checked with counter-press on, so we might understand how SI's logic works on the matter... Even tho pretty sure doesn't even matter
The sad part is about the defensive mentality.
Updated 24.2.0.0
To be honest, for me is more in the middle, one got mega bad luck gamble and this got lucky gamble.
We gonna get all addicted to gamble pretty soon
AHAH that makes me laughing so hard
That's why you getting less effective, i did already patched it, released to my patreons first, will release the new one in 1-2 days.
I didn't really check with Pio-Terminator but can say before was 30-40 the min and max.
Now is 23-37 min and max.
That was pre-patch with Pio-Terminator, i am using a control-possession based on de Zerbi, even tho they quite made mission impossible to recreate now the build-up. He did like 45 goals from corners on 2nd season.
I already found a new way for corners to score at least 20+ goals but what's strange are the min. and max that are going between 25 to 37. Literally their "hotfix" was this :
The image speak it self, i don't know if that's normal or people will start to understand what i mean by i can't expect less than this
As even sponsor said, i was like, did i smoke something different or something ain't quite right here... But still isn't very professional to change your patch "sneaky sneaky" like that..
I was sure there was a voice saying : Reduced "goal scoring overall", now can't find it anymore, from that seem they have just fixed AI behavior on defending phase. Which is the case, is totaly dumb.
Now that i am reading more, there are MANY voices that got changed from the first "patch note", pretty sure there was something even about ball deflection etc. Didn't know they would alterate it, or i would've made a SS ...
I was sure they nerfed the overall goal scoring output (AI/Player).
Ye, i do understand that's useless to even go futher on gegenpress point, if he still can't understand how demanding gegen-press is/was isn't really my problem at this point.
- If people waste more time to check in-game what's going on and before to spouting a sentence, i wouldn't even say nothing. But that's not the case, usually my motto is "let them be".
So @dzek, will try to sentence this in a very easy concept :
YOU, after your favorite "company" announced while FM23 was running, FM25-Unity revolution - tons of marketing blabering, hold on , what about FM24?
It was like, marketing speaking they said : another "database Update" ; you can accept or deny it.
So, for me is already more then what i was literally expecting from the very beginning.
Now, you were attracted from their FM24 marketing campain, you are right about: you want what they promissed, i don't even know which point of their missing feature is disturbing you that much, to go nuts, but in a perfect world you would be right, but that's far from perfect.
- They already, mess-up again the "condition of players".
IF gegen-press is so low-demanding system on stamina, why it affect like that in game then?
Who should i thank for that? You? But from my little understanding you saying the contrary, so it's hard to believe that they listening your "reports".
Do you believe that's is easy task to filtrer all the pile of feedback they receiving from their clients pool?
After you answear to your self this point, let go to the next one : How much of those feedback are considerated "garbage" to them? Why should i (SI company) should i listen to you instead of another client, in reality why should i even consider "feedbacks" when i have all my well paid testers.
Guess going any further then this is pretty time wasting.
If a team has a successful pressing system then logically they will have the ball in their possession more of the time. Who gets more tired? The year Liverpool won the league they played full pressing and literally played the whole season with 13-15 players. Did they turn into gods or were they all doped up? The following years were not the same. But why? Because they didn't have an effective press and players started getting tired/injured because the runs increased.
Pressing man and zonal? This is the first time I've ever heard of such a thing in football. Gegenpress brother is the COUNTER-PRESS! To make this possible, your forward and midfield players needs to get on the side of the ball as soon as they lose the ball. You even posted the video but you probably didn't even see it.
Screenshot from the video you sent above.
Try to understand first how Gegenpress works and then come and talk to me. I'm talking and explaining what Gegenpress does without possession and you're just talking whatever you want.
How can a team do a COUNTER-PRESS with full width? Can you explain that to me?
Also when Liverpool have possession of the ball (54%) who will run more? Brighton or Liverpool?
When City have the ball and play those simple passes around the box which team have to run more? Which team need more stamina?
Read what Avenger22 said here.
So, you are a sheep because SI said it on their advertisement. Perfect at least i know to whom i am refering to.
Let's start go first a bit ironic, because seem you literally have no idea what you talking about, but it's funny tho :
https://youtube.com/shorts/-EbxCGlLP4s?si=ZSD80gV2z2dPQXYa
Check this on min 4:43 ; couldn't find a full match, it would be educational for you. But at least you can understand something about pressing and High - LOE ; You can understand that they were targeting their build-up ;
Here you can understand what i mean by zonal and man counter-pressing :
You can press an area/zone before the ball goes to player, so in my head the coach is telling them to press a specific zone of the pitch. (Maybe that's already too advanced lesson for you but i am trying my best)
Klopp's interview :
Liverpool tallied 116km in total at White Hart Lane and, in doing so, became the first side to clock up more distance than Spurs so far this term.
“We need to have a plan and that’s what we are trying to do, but we don’t have to run 150km a game to be successful - we have to be prepared for each style we want to do.
“There is always talk about, ‘Can they do this every three days?’ Yes, of course we need healthy players, but we don’t kill the players – we train with them and they have the confidence and physical skills to do this because they are young, healthy and professionals.
“We ran 116km against Tottenham. There were 5km that were not useful and we did them – but we did them because we wanted to. It was not the most clever thing, but now we can try to turn the screws and do it in the right way, in the right moment, with better timing and [being] cooler with the ball. It will get better and better and better.
“If you play against a much better team and are not ready to run more than they are, then you are crazy. Tottenham have been together for a long time – they are stable with results and performances – so we had to give them problems, and that’s what we tried to do.
-------
- If i want to focus their DS/DD or in a simple way their flanks, what do you believe i will do? If you can't focus their flanks with your "counter-press", maybe you are not quite in the game.
I am sure you can find materials about that, it's not necessary Klopp that did that. But once again seem you are a wikipedia of Football, which make me smile, since till this point you make no basic sense to me.
Like i can apply pressing only on central zone, but i am sure you didn't mean that, once again i do hope.
Even tho you don't believe me and your really senteced it very wrong in first place, YOU NEED STAMINA IN ANY KIND OF SYSTEM YOU PLAY.
Let's beside that possession tactics like Pep are based to make the opponents run alot, but if they running maybe there is a reason :
-Are they trying to win the ball back? So, it's a counter-press?
-Are they just covering for a mistake? What's that then?
Do you believe if i don't apply pressure to your players, i will run more then you? If i do apply pressure on some zone instead of others etc will i?
Now before you do, you can come at me, saying that Klopp changed the way of how he APPLY PRESSURE and tempo and even system-up(after that,if you want to understand that there is more then just "counter-pressing phase", good for you, since basically his players are not "fresh" like before).
I will not open now another wall about tempo, because you could've mentionated it from the start so i guess you believe is a full-throttle game and runs only one team.
Instead of Sacking him, they let him evolve his way, like is very interesting how he evolved it nowdays.
I trully believe at this point that even you can understand this simple point : If a youtuber can analyze his basic system to explain why it was getting countered SO HARD last season, i believe everyone can understand it. There are some many phases in the game, but learning basic is the first step.
But let's say you are right and whatever, how do you believe moving 3/4 players to get the ball back doesn't involve player's stamina is a unknow concept to me, didn't know running for 12-15kms, was so stamina free, will start tomorrow maybe i can do 1km since my stamina is almost 0.
Last tip about full width-fairly width "pressing" ; IF your winger is playing narrow, what you gonna do? Passing to the ball to WB L/R seem very easy solution to me, since the guy runned like a wild dog in the center to get the ball back. I do believe there is more to the plate, like Klopp : YO, SALAH LET's PLAY MORE NEAR THE LINE MAN They found out our weakness!
To conclude this wall of text, if you believe apply all those mechanics is simple matter, i do literally suggest you to open your own company and run your IRL-Simulator.
Did i misunderstood you again?
And we do expect SI, to filtrer all the garbage is coming towards them...
We don't know yet, what they did with AI, let's see, but believe me , if they make it too "adaptative", 99% of the community will start the process = cry like no toworrow. I am now re-working all the Set pieces, because they had the brilliant idea to put 5 man on near post
Still i don't know what you guys expect from this anymore.
Still if i have to trade 10 goals from corners for this gameplay i will do even for 20 goals less from corners, no regrets. IF now they gonna make possession basic tactics better, i would be very happy with this FM24.
Why are you still bring-in "in-real football", I believe FIFA should be the "realistic" game and even tho i never played it i am sure of it is far from it.
If you believe that gegen doesn't need stamina ok, i am not gonna stop you, you choose your words, don't say again we "misunderstood", i mean you could name everything, but stamina won your prize.
You didn't define what is for you stamina, so i let it, but literally, instead to go ask to SI boys, go to any amateur player and ask him, "how much stamina do you need in order to play".
P.S. Every style almost need stamina, but as i said i am not here to convince none.
Do you even know, how much a player run around the pich every games?
Pressing can be "man" or "zonal", It's liverpool playing narrow, or city? I am totaly blind i was sure they almost play around the touch lines, i am lost in here.
Did you even played a season on this M.E. and watched the extended highlights, i do suggest all of you, instead of your 2D, because it's clear that you don't even know what you talking about at this point.
Did you saw Pool vs Brighton? I mean literally they were pressing them for 90' minutes their defenders, if you believe that's require no much stamina or width, something is wrong.
Avenger22 said: Gegenpress is a completely misused term mainly from fans and pundits, it means counter-press basically pressing the counter so instead of running back to defend the counter you press like maniac for 5-10 s after you lose the ball, dortmund is first famous to do it with klopp in a very specific way.
Before that ofc many counter-press teams but none like that dortmund which had training drills and everything tailored for that 5-10s window, i have no idea why the gegenpress for most people is highpressing like without the ball that is a different concept and thing, that is just high pressing which has always been in football, they associate gegenpress with highpressing when in reality gegenpressing is just counter-press thats it a transition moment.
That's it! but Klopp made it a bit different to "how often" it was triggered but w/e. You can define it with OI's.
here a video, 3 minutes
Back in-game, who said that mid-block ain't working? How did you tried to make it work? I can tell you that much lower is a bit meh, but mid-block is pretty fine.
Point is where you gonna fight to get the ball-back, if you win it back on the middle you will still need to face-off the defenders, if you win it on oppo defenders you will create vs GK situation.
That's the difference.
Why do you believe middle block should be more efficient then High one?
If you care about 1 point of test league, that's your problem none forced you, but saying "doesn't work, because on arena test isn't giving same results, you do understand your self.
If you play high-pressing LOE vs City/Pool or those elite teams with aliens BPDs, it's your choice.
It's since EPL started to shine again, that the game went more on physical attributes, that's a fact, you don't only need to be good on tecnical aspect but even physical one.
I mean, before de Zerbi went to Brighton, now seriously who the hell believed that those players could play that kind of football? So it's not impossible to achieve that but to make it shining you need what? Better players.
Mourinho, the most boring game-style(and i am Romanista), but he can win and achieve success with it. But with super good players he can demolish a league. With Roma he can't because MissingPoint = good players.
I am playing since some days, trying now de zerbi, now they made like hell to reproduce his build-up not even know why, at least on FM23 we could achieve something similar, now the GK is totaly cut-off from the build-up.
But if people come and tell me if FM20-21-22-23 are even near to FM24 i would tell em, hell no.
Player interaction is just better, everything around the gameplay is better.
---FM in nutshell---
It's far from good? Yes
It's far from balanced? Yes
Who cares? Yes
We buy it? Yes
When i play that is for fun, if i want to compete, i just go to MTGA.
Now ask your self what do you want from this game-flight simulator.
Edit :
I went to check the features ( didn't even know they were doing this sort of adv) :
https://www.footballmanager.com/features
TRUER FOOTBALL MOTION
Signficant enhancements to player movement, ball physics and lighting level up the drama of matchday, creating the most immersive and best-looking match engine to date.
-That's is working, it's the thing i am talking about and make "FM24 unique".
DOMINATE FROM SET PIECES
Make an impact at both ends of the pitch with a new-look Set Piece Creator, powered by brand-new Set Piece Coaches who will support by crafting the perfect routines.
-This is discutibile, very shitty the system, for me is far from "newbie user" but w/e.
BRACE FOR TRANSFER BATTLES
Showcase your skills in the most refined transfer market to date, and prepare to battle for talent against more intelligent rival managers, who will push you harder in the hunt for players.
- For now i did noticed nothing regarding this, it's the same as FM23, didn't play that long to so if AI is smarter like they stating.
OFFLOAD PLAYERS WITH NEW AGENTS
Overhaul your squad and increase your transfer budget with new Intermediary agents and increased options for moving on unwanted players to help fund your rebuild.
- ?????
There seem like to read Jdaily with his "META OP 20 RATE points Tactics".
Now tell me if i am missing something... What do you guys did expect from FM24?
Make Blau my president.
I will test it thoroughly to see exactly how much it increases per training session and per match, and what attributes affect it, but that will take a while.
Resting after matches will benefit the player in the long run. In short, playing increases attributes more than training, and resting to full allows them to be used more often. Also, training with lower condition increases the number of injuries, which hinder player growth.
Anyway, it is important to say that fatigue also affects injuries, and players with "low" fatigue get injured less than fresh players during matches.
it's literally very affascinating.
For example here i didn't "manually rest the players" and N'dicka is totaly asking me for mercy.
the rest of the players are ok tho :
That's the routine :
About individual players growth, there are many factors that are impacting on it, some players skyrocketing their PA and some others not, and now that i am writing the the ones that are literally struggling are the defenders.
I never tracked those things before, are just numbers that i do literally check for fun with FMRTE, i will start to track those CA/PA more accurately.
Will see how to build some python scripts to make it automatizzated.
Seems like the recovery sessions slow down the recovery of physical condition and fatigue compared to just rest. What they actually do is slow down the loss of match sharpness. The recovery session's "benefit" is most likely to maintain match sharpness at less of a cost to condition/fatigue recovery compared to a normal training session.
I wonder if it is best for fatigue purposes to have a training intensity schedule that is mostly no pitch or gym work besides the full heart condition. Loss of match sharpness is irrelevant if your team usually plays two matches a week.
it's basically 2 malus and 1 positive, will try to swap those recovery into rest at this point and will tell ya
Edit :
I don't know if anyone tested team cohesion (to me is pretty cosmetic stuff, but you never know, i might check it if none did)
Gonna try this one to check if i can keep now players condition without 1 day rest
Ok after you mentionated the "fatigue", now all first XI went to Fatigue low ( but i didn't literally did nothing).
This is what i do :
- Rest first eleven for 1 day if i have 2-3 games in 1 week (i literally select them and rest them 1 day)
it's literally a tweak from cadoni2, this way i do believe i can keep the players condition(might be very wrong), otherwise i need to rest them for 2 days etc. I didn't check yours yet, but literally i am just worried about condition of the players. (usually i play with 11 core-players and 6-7 subs, all are wonderkids)
But if isn't the training, what's triggering the low "fatigue"? Just playing games?
I will do more experiments with training schedule later, after the results from fatigue. In short, players with "fresh" fatigue perform much worse than those with "low" fatigue (which perform much better than those getting fatigued or fatigued), which is how FM simulates the conditioning of muscles. The ideal training schedule should finish the pre-season with "low" fatigue, and keep it at that level during the whole season, so I will have to account fatigue gained during training, matches, and rotation.
oh god, i always have my kids on fresh fatigue
I need to check yours i guess, i am working around a tweak of cadoni's, and condition is pretty okay, but still if i don't rest them 1 day, they will start to collapse
Edit :
just checked on my first 11, 5 are low and 6 fresh...