Delicious
Edit 18/12/2022

4231 The Assembler Zone.

The rules and the tactic option are an adaptation on the last data release that were made on :

https://fm-arena.com/board/10-tactical-instructions-testing/

All the test were made on vacation.

Gonna try to rebuild the journey i did in order to achieve a solid 4231.

The idea to go into a 4231 was at the time since i couldn't make a 4231 narrow perfoming like one with wingers i decided to first attempt a good 4231 and after move on around other shapes.

Everything started with the main goal to make the AF=striker do his main job, scoring tons of goals (the record was 137 goals in one season with Haaland), but since here on arena the league is setuped to achieve a more balanced game (i guess), striker are tall 1.75 so it's basically hard to focus crosses on them since the defenders are tall 1.90.
So i've decided to rework the sp's with rework i mean that i went around the web to find anything i could like, since i personally didn't spend time on it yet, but i will soon because are too much important and that makes the difference between a good tactic and a great one.


Archieve of every tactic :

4231 Focus Striker - https://fm-arena.com/find-comment/15936/

4231 Focus Striker V3 - https://fm-arena.com/find-comment/15987/

4231 NoName - https://fm-arena.com/find-comment/16006/

4231 Focus Striker V4 - https://fm-arena.com/find-comment/16015/

Bibble Story - https://fm-arena.com/find-comment/16473/ ( you can find there the pre and post )

Post Meta Bibble v2 - https://fm-arena.com/find-comment/16564/

Post Meta Bibble v3 - https://fm-arena.com/find-comment/16565/

Islam Champ - https://fm-arena.com/find-comment/16896/

Islam's Choke - https://fm-arena.com/find-comment/17122/

4231 Khabib's choke - https://fm-arena.com/find-comment/17123/

4231 Islam Champ V2 - https://fm-arena.com/find-comment/17124/

4231 Islam Champ V3  -  https://fm-arena.com/find-comment/17132/

4231 Islam Makhachev - https://fm-arena.com/find-comment/17272/

4231 Jeff Hardy  - https://fm-arena.com/find-comment/17273/

4231 Nurmagomedov - https://fm-arena.com/find-comment/17351/

4231 Khabib Nurmagomedov - https://fm-arena.com/find-comment/17384/
     

Spoiler
NandaldiaN said: the tests are in 3000 games, and there are hardly any changes, in some cases the difference is 3-4 goals in 3000 games... it is negligible

I don't think it works that way; You building up the tactic you gonna understand what this bible of datas:
It's basically saying do you want 5 goals more? flag it, do you want to get less 3 goals? Flag it. Etcetc.
I mean little dettails make things better then others...

Imagine just to apply those things i got 4% win rate overall more on my tests. For you it might nothing, to me it's way too huge, because now i am not gonna waste time on useless options.
Chewbacca said: I remember Max EBFM tested 'Step Up More' and 'Drop Off More' and found they were doing nothing :)

At least step up more was giving 0.5% but he said it might be RNG generating this factor.

I am testing it is like getting 2-3 goals less. Btw those results at least opened a world.

Good Job
dzek said: @Zippo can you explain us a little bit further this test? I mean with "No Specific Distribution" you untick/disable "Distribute To Centre Backs" and "Roll It Out" and stick only with "Play Out Of Defence"?

I've noticed it too doing in deepth test :

The first is without any option;
The second is with Play out of defense and imbucate
The Third with only Play out of defense
The Third without any option again;

The last column is the %win rate, so i wasn't the only one finding those option totaly strange...


I mean but those option are really supposed to do nothing? Just to get worse the tactic?
Those results literally broke my heart, not even 0.1% difference ... that's insane
Totaly bored about how those SS are perfoming, i moved them near the AF and tried every option to fit the results and increase the % of winning. I did in depth tested with West Ham even managed to win once the league but i guess it was likely luck since the league was won with 85 points. Scamacca is really doing great to me. I even runned one yolo run with City to check if haaland would go over 110 goals and he did 130 exatcly. Maybe gonna try some mentality on : Offensive and VA.


Sp's are still from MrGreen, the tactic is a revamp of Musclesmash.

Cheers
MakeSuRE said: You quoted so I have to answer whatever you asked? Sorry I am a poor blind man so I only see what makes me uncomfortable, especially not in my native language.
In fact, I don't care all the stuffs you guys went through these two days. I just make, test and adjust what I like to show in the game panel. If someone wants the 1st place, just go and get it.
Putting yourself into my position, what would you do to deal with these wildly arrogant burglars? Tell me the necessity that why I have to protest my innocence after being treated in this way?


Sorry i didn't see that,i don't even know the whole story,to me you did the right thing even if you're the culpirt. I am just so sad that Axel didn't put a fight on his case as well.
I personally don't care if you did or not, if you worked, if you got a "real" ispiration, or studied everything that could fit in the tactic to make it work.
You just failed to understand that i was sarcasting around to hear the "story" but seem half of the people here don't even read a full sentence so it's ok!

Btw it was some under lines that i stated that i was trolling. :devil:
rego8 said: id do it with ease 1 round is all i would need pm where you want to meet if your up to it

I can even public give you even my personal andress but i live in Italy so you gonna pay for your tickets:)
Don't act like you are worth more then 10 seconds because you can't argue or gives a clearly point.
I am ready to get decked whenever you want, but sometimes before doing this kind of statement you should process your 4 working neurons inside the thing called skull.

The funny thing about all of this pillar of infinite shit is : One guy got humiliated in public by a post made of an admin, and the tones weren't like that,don't you think that was fishy?

You know what's the different? Axel's decided to drop-off istantly and Makesure didn't.

And i respect that Makesure defended his self,because if i work 300 hours on something,but coming up that is similar to another work of someone else why tho it should be called plagiarism?
But since this is something "similar" to a Knap's tactic the tone are differents, if it was zaz's business even the admin would come out, pointing out that "oh hey those things are so similar", so what we gonna do? To you that's the normal way right?

If someone brings out again that i am doing cospiracy,i will start doing it like a live-piston.
Since i am the only one here basing things on public-forum fact,since i don't know what happened on back-end.
MakeSuRE said: I spent half of my free time testing different combinations of roles and instructions, and at the time when it finally showed some good stuff, witch hunters came and sentenced me to death. Which kind of story would u like to hear?
Or, set rules that each tactic should be attcached with a STORY once it was uploaded online.
Gathered a private meeting, directly shouted about plagiarism and made a mess, what a dog for xxxx. Have u been paid? Tell me the STORY and I might wanna be a guard dog too if the price is good.


Dude,literally if you read the post, you will noticed/understand that i was just making fun about how zaz used "ispiration" as a guide-line to credit players and if you spent more then 3 minutes more to read the last post you would notice i couldn't careless about everything on this matter,to me (i am none), case was solved when you showed that you worked on the tactic since FM22, personally i wouldn't even care if you did yestarday.

And i even quoted you multiple times on the more in deepth explanation. If you fail to understand what "trolling" means, i don't know what to say.

I mean if we want to talk serious on the matter the 2 tactics are really identical, how you both reached this state is your story, there is no tribunal(or it's not even clear why a similar post was made on another case being public).
And now i do understand that even my suggestion to let a community resolve things was a fail as well. Since the dogs fight went out of hand after few post.

But really you guys seem so tight that if you gonna fart something funny gonna happens.

Btw my circus is still looking for staff,if you are interested let me know i will protect you like a son! My clowns are really important to me.
Grimlock said: https://fm-arena.com/find-comment/14970/

https://fm-arena.com/thread/2708-welcome-please-read-this-first/


Let it. It's clear you can't read or understand any points.


Muukzor said: @Delicious How about you stop being a conspiracy theorist and stop acting like a total ass towards reputable creators? They're currently #1 and #2 in the tables, I don't see any harm towards them contributing, there's only so many formations you can do, some tactics are bound to be similar. If  you want them compared to Knaps or others, upload them yourself with proper credit so they can be compared and tested then.

Besides, @ZaZ  has been calmer and way nicer to you than you deserve.

You're being a clown, stop being hostile, enjoy the game, enjoy the tactics, if you don't like it, leave.


I don't understand if you fail the part to understand or something.

You made your self being a clown as well with just this post,welcome to the circus i guess?

Gonna make a little recap for you people:

https://fm-arena.com/thread/2707-please-help-us-to-establish-rules/

I don't think you do undestand any on my points. I couldn't careless about plagiarism and whole this whole pilar of shit. I didn't like the way @AlexJV was treated, and i failed to understand Zaz's Behavior as well, he could say the same thing he said in here.

I coudln't even careless if @MakeSuRE copied/pasta the tactic, he showed that he worked on it since FM22 and he went to his own process in order to achieve his results.

My whole point if you (Admin) use "doubts" like evidence, people gonna be encouraged to act likewise and if you write things like "ispiration-guide line" you(zaz) should understand the f**k you even proposed,because if we follow this guide-line, we for sure should put mention/credits to knaps everywhere,because he did created/made shapes like an industry.

And today the shitstorm hitted because those tactics looks pretty identical.

If you want to act smartass, at least learn to how do it.


Welcome to my circus i needed another clown.


Grimlock said: I'll put a picture for you if you find it's difficult to find a post

this section and the rules below were introduced just 3 days ago so when ZaZ was solving his issue with plagiarism there weren't any rules how to do that




I guess you are the next that joined my circus. Do you really fail to see what is above? or what?

ZaZ said: To be short, I think you should calm down. It makes zero sense that you try to make this a conflict between you and me, when the issue has nothing to do with either of us. I accept your opinion that tactics are too similar and the issue should be investigated, and I just gave my opinion on how I think the case should be handled. Divergence in opinions is not a problem. The problem is when you try to make this personal and attack me for no apparent reason. Again, I think you should calm down.

I will use numbers i guess.

1) I don't think the tactics should be even investigate,because to me Makesure showed that he worked on the tactic since FM22.

2)If you want to act like a twat do it, but you know my whole point about the matter because i've already stated it. Can't seem you were more sensitive on something you were involved and here you came with "go resolve dms"?

3)Why should i put it personal on a forum that support you? I was just trying to make you realize that if you wanna for real follow those "ispiration guide-line" the forum will get hitted by a shitstorm. If it was personal believe me i would just hit you with something else,for sure not discussing about a matter that is wasting everyone time.

Hope you do understand now.
Grimlock said: because when he did that there weren't these rules - https://fm-arena.com/thread/2708-welcome-please-read-this-first/

the rules above was introduced recently and if you didn't notice it than it's your problem


Which rules are you talking about? I don't know if that's me being blind or you trying to act like a smartass being even more blind then me. Can you please understand on your own or if you need any further explanation ask for them and i will be pleased to give them to you.

:)
ZaZ said: The post you are linking is a suggestion, and it has no power because I'm not staff from this site. The procedure adopted by the mods was the one described here, which states that any suspect of plagiarism should be brought to this section. However, people started bashing the mod for asking to post in the proper place, and instead started saying very rude stuff like "this page should be shut down". Do you understand the problem?

The incident took huge proportions just because @Zippo asked the creator to post in the right section. After that, people started bashing me just because I asked them to solve the problem internally instead of creating a huge fuss. Most people don't appreciate watching free drama on internet, and that's what this case became. It could have been solved via DM between users and a mod after the issue was reported. Again, remember that I'm not staff and my opinion has no effect on the way FM-Arena solves issues like that.


It seriously feels when the stuff is about your "shit" you act in a way when it's not you ask for private "DM", If you were that kind why you didn't ask zippo to do that on private? I know that things like that would just create dramas,that's was my whole point.

But once people feels there is something wrong,what do you gonna do?

Maybe you are not a member of the "staff" but you know there are doubts around you as well?

What we gonna do then? We need ispiration!

Sorry if i am dumping on you but that thing really made my day.

On the matter:

tactics are pretty the same 1 option and some rules of CWB are different. No doubts. And one player difference on Sp's.

@MakeSuRE My boy, where did you get the ispiration to create such tactic?
Tell us the story behind it.


@ZaZ tell us the story and where and how you get ispiration for Water?


Yes, i am trolling you, maybe with some of this stupid "ispiration" medicine you gonna understand any better
ZaZ said: I was answering to what the other member said, not talking about subject of this thread.




Like I said before, I support addressing the issue, but I think it's taking a proportion bigger than it should. We don't even know if Knap copied him or if he copied Knap, so it's a bit harsh to bring this to public before any investigation. Talking to the guy via DM could have solved the problem without creating much chaos.


What's the difference between this case and this https://fm-arena.com/thread/2707-please-help-us-to-establish-rules/#comment-14963 ?

Illuminate me please.
Keep up the good work!

Gonna wait, those ispiration mentioning/credits and w/e you wanna call them :)
What do you mean by inspiration? If i see a tactic and i want to emulate the shape? or what?

Let's take my experience for example i am going trough a process to achieve what i did on fm22 on a tactic, but i got ispiration from Tuchel AI and after from Mr green that made a version for full elite teams, so i did the process to revamp every role, studying the meta roles/rules around the forums,set pieces are from his tactic (i didn't yet go trough that part of the game yet).

We share looking shape and sp's


Now from your point of view, it's considered a tweak?

At least we can undestand a point of view on the matter :)

Keep sometimes before to reply,because how you saw people pay attention when this kind of topic being discussed on public threads.

P.S.

I am mentioning him about set pieces already.
This kind of shitstorm remind me something btw...
Well,another good/decent test, did more in depth but the M.E. At the moment is really strange or there is a something that i am missing, but the results were most likely "stable", even if those GD are totaly random to me.
I didn't check Scamacca CA/PA but seem a good king of alphas! No clue what happened when for 2 season he managed to scores 80+ goals and once 50!

Let me know if works for you!

Hf
The tactic was already been tested on discord and i saw was like 160+ goals on league and a bit leaky.
So my question is, did you play the games? Run Vacation? How did you tested it?

Gonna check it later!

Edit:

Well checking the screens seem you did played it.
42121 Islam

Hello, guys i did revamped the HulkSmash doing some assemble, about the meta roles but i find something is not going well, results are not that bad and usually if i am not that satisfied i don't go further on test with CA140 and 120, but i will eventually do it if i find something stable,i really find so strange some results on this version, maybe is the long vacation for WC. I did start yestarday so i am not sure yet.

here are the results with CA +o- 160 if someone likes the shape and wanna run on 140/120 teams will be great so i can collect more datas.

If you have ideas and wanna share it don't be afraid, i am more then open to test things!

Sp's are from Mrgreen like always!
ZaZ said: Fine, let's assume what you said is valid. Then you copy a tactic from a Korean website, make one slight change like "SK-Su -> SK-At", and rename it to "my wonderful tactic 300 points with PSG all titles", with a long text to describe how hard it was to discover such a good tactic. Would that be fair for the guy from Korean website? Would it cost much for you to simply say "I got inspiration from the tactic in this website"? Who is the one full of ego?

Well personally i don't even care about the matter, since i was a former MTG and MTGA deck creator this thing happen more then you believe there, and the hours you mention ain't not even 1/10 of it.
I actually totaly agree with you about they should mention it,but do you trully believe that everyone gonna do it? As someone mentioned there is a community and we are not that much playing the game compared to others game for many reason. I trully believe that if someone pop-up with your play-style or better copy-pasta tactic with just a tweak they gonna discovered it in no-time.

There isn't something like copyrights or digital signiture (i mean it would be just useless since i can just manually create a tactic as well from 0).

The tactic looks to me like almost a copy of ZaZ's Fire 1.0 or Blue 4.0 but with minor tweaks added and I think in this case AlexJV should gives credit to ZaZ for his work.

So, are we sure about it? or not? It's simple matter of facts. But the smartass way used was so wrong  and so pointless, just made a guy upset for no reason.

How are we gonna understand if someone copied or tweaked your work? 2 IWB on Attack 2 WINGS on SUPPORT 2 AF? 1 SS?
I mean whats the key to understand it? from the shape? set pieces? everything? so none is allowed to make something similar with those rules that gonna be considered your tactic tweak? So if we start from the ancient history of this game, we gonna face the fact that we are  just copying Knap's (i don't know others creators that are on meta more then you and him) and tweaking his work?
I won't got further because i coudln't make it any easier to understand what i am saying. Becuase if you trully believe you own the shape it's gonna be ridicolous, if you tell me you create the sp's i gonna trully believe it because i've read your posts and explanation about everything, but i am just trying to make it clear that to understand a "plagiarism" case is harder then you think.

And basically is up to the community and the player who did it to mention it.

The ego part wasn't refered to you at all, it was just an example,because it's not the first time i read something similar around the forums, and pretty sure you know it better then me tho.


Have fun to copy a tactic from koreans sites :P